Monthly Archives: June 2012

Grand Unified Theory of Collapse: GUTOC

Discuss this article inside the Diner

Mark wrote:

I think a key point from what Steve said there was the debts could be canceled and you would have to borrow to infinity anyway to keep industrial civilization as we know it running. Triggering the global derivative markets would probably lead to such a reset of debt would it not? Or they would just end derivatives? Many liberal techno fantasy folks I know trumpet that solution but it seems it would destroy the supposed assets of the too big to fail banks.

In theory you could cancel out the derivatives market, but this would crash the biggest of the TBTF banks. It would be massively deflationary, leaving only “real” assets on their books, but those assets are also all impaired. Loan books that are not paying off, Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs) with no worthwhile collateral backing them up, etc.

Besides bringing down the main Global Banking system, same players control global trade of all kinds, and once they are outta biz you don’t have a coherent means to keep this up, not on anywhere near current scale anyhow. Who will issue Letters of Credit, based in what currency? Gold? Pfffft. Even if Saudis accept Gold for Oil, anybody running an industrial economy will bankrupt themselves of that Gold using it to keep buying Oil for a while. Once the Saudis HAVE all the Gold, then what do you buy their Oil with?

So you are left with the fundamental problem that once this monetary system crashes, rebooting a new one based on any worthwhile assets is pretty tough. You can say the Land is the Asset, but for land to be an asset it actually has to be productive in some way. A McMansion is not a productive asset of course. Farms can be productive assets, but current Industrial Ag is not, it requires too much input of fossil fuel energy to be net productive.

A Perfectly run Permaculture Farm could be considered Productive, but basing a monetary system on that is quite the challenge unless you Nationalize this. See, if each individual person runs their own Private Property Farm, its not a State Asset at all. You can barter your produce with others, but there is no Money involved here in this. Only once the State taxes your produce and creates a currency of some sort from that taxation can you have money flowing around the economy.

Anyhow, even if you do drop down to this level (which is basically the Feudal system), you have massively deflated Industrialization out of Biz as unaffordable, you have very little functioning Money around of any kind (and what there is probably is very local), and you are left with Feudally Run (by local Warlords no doubt) permaculture Farms which probably do not produce enough to handle the current local population’s needs. So lots of people go to the Great Beyond here in this process of contraction.

So of course our Global Masters are doing every last thing they can think of to keep the system propped up, because when (not if) the Global Banking system collapses it doesn’t mean just a Monetary Reset here. It means the real onset of Civilization Collapse and an Die Off in population of unprecedented proportions in all of Recorded History.

The Solution which will be undertaken to this problem is not a Monetary one, it is WAR. When you no longer can afford to BUY the resource you need, you STEAL it. So through War the attempt is already underway to steal the Oil remaining from the MENA countries to keep propping up the economies of the core Industrial Economies of Germany, China and the FSofA. The Ruskies mostly have their own Oil and aren’t directly involved, but their problem is they can’t afford their OWN oil. They have been contracting down since the collapse of the Soviet Union, population stats way down here over the last 20 years with more to go.

Its the War issue which makes the local collapse here in the FSofA so unpredictable. A Military State such as Rome can persist for quite a while through conquest and theft. However, the fact we are in the end going to go Mano-a-Mano or Nuke-a-Nuke with the Chinese for the last of the remaining Oil means in all probability the Big Ass Military will not last so long as it did in the Roman Collapse, which actually took Centuries to complete. In this case it probably doesn’t last 5 years, and in fact could be over in a matter of minutes. Generaly speaking though, I think MAD will prevail and if Nukes are used, they will be mostly tactical ones, not ICBM MIRV equipped City Killers.

To conclude here in this digest of GUTOC, the sequence of events is pretty clear even if the Timeline for them still remains a bit murky. Overall my predictions have been very accurate in terms of sequence since I got started on this, I predicted the Nation State BKs coming down the pipe in 2008 after Lehman collapsed. The length of time TPTB have been able to extend this out continues to astound me, along with the endless creativity in accounting and the endless gullibility/acceptance of eating shit by the general public as well. This will not last in perpetuity though, up at the Top it is coming apart at the seams now and fracture is imminent. War looms on the Horizon.

RE

Waste Based Society II: Vendor Financing & Planned Obsolescence

Discuss this article inside the Diner

 

Why do we run a Waste Based Economy (WBE)? It seems illogical on the surface, but there is a fundamental reason for it.

The reason is this: In a Conservation Based Economy, nobody gets OUTRAGEOUSLY rich!

In this post I am going to move away from the Glass Bottles and Jars to the most glaring example of waste we have been engaged in for the last century or so since the first Model Ts rolled off Henry Ford’s production line, the Automobile.

Let’s begin with the Car itself. Marvelous invention it was, the Horseless Carriage. Put a lot of Horses out of work of course, but they were quickly recycled as Dog Food. With Gas priced cheaper than Oats and one Engine capable of doing the work of a Hundred Horses or more, nobody is going to stick with Horses except some really stubborn Amish who don’t even shave!

So everybody enamored of progress and who ALSO wishes to actually SURVIVE in this new world of the Horseless Carriage wants one. You can’t compete if you have a Horse and Buggy and the next J6P has a Car and can get to the Jobsite faster than you can. If you are a Farmer, you can’t produce as much food as cheaply as the guy running a Tractor with your Team of Oxen. If you don’t get one of these New Fangled inventions, you are gonna be outta biz in no time, your farm Repoed and on your way to California to pick the Grapes of Wrath with the rest of your Okie buddies.

Your problem here is, you don’t have MONEY to buy one of these fancy new Tractors. No problem here of course, the Kindly Banksters who financed the Tractor Factory will ALSO finance you to buy one of these Tractors! POOF, lots of New Money is floating around here because massive loans have been made to Industry to gear up, and massive loans are made in aggregate to J6P to buy the products of that industry.

This seems GREAT at the beginning, but the problem here is that it cost a shit load of this new Money to build the Tractor and Car Factories, but unless they KEEP selling more of these cool inventions they won’t be able to pay off the 30 year Mortgage they took out to set the factory up.

Because the Production Line Henry Ford set up so efficiently produces GOBS of these new Carz and Tractorz, the market gets saturated pretty quickly. Everybody with a decent Credit rating buys the first ones off the line. These things are OVERBUILT for the most part and will last for YEARS, even Decades if well maintained. At the beginning also, they are simple enough in their design and construction that a handy sort of fellow can do all the maintenance on them himself. A decade down the line, you have all the guys you originally sold Carz and Tractorz to STILL using them! You can’t sell them a New One unless you make some truly revolutionary change that makes a new one way more efficient and better than the old one. Even then, unless the old one breaks down, its a pretty hard sell.

So at this point a few strategies are undertaken to keep selling Tractorz and Carz. First off you get your R&D departments where they do make some real improvements for a while, but these generally hit a plateau. Next you hit on Fashion and Comfort ad promote with Advertising. The NEW Carz/Tractorz have more comfortable seats and real SLEEK Lines. If you have the NEWEST John Deere Tractor, out there in the Corn Field it looks like something out of a Jules Verne Novel! Its a Farmer’s Rocket Ship! Farmer’s unlike Car Buyers though generally aren’t suckered by this stuff, if their Combine works, it works. It doesn’t need to look good, rust is OK if it is still working.

In the final stage, Planned Obsolescence and making the stuff so complicated nobody can fix it (not even “professionals”) means every one of these Big Ticket items which you take a 10 year Loan out on to buy generally only lasts 7 or 8 before you need to buy a New One.

If John Deere or any other manufacturer of Industrial Goods really sets themselves toward producing durable goods that last longer than the typical debt cycle of 10-30 years, they will put themselves out of Bizness in no time. The only way to KEEP SELLING is to keep expanding into New Markets and offering more Vendor Financig to each new market to buy your stuff. Which of course is what they kept on doing right up until they saturated the whole Global Market with the stuff and there actually are probably more perfectly serviceable engines and other parts sitting in Junkyards than there are new ones beig produced in China.

As the whole economy of selling this stuff slows down, Da Goobermint tries strategies like Cash for Clunkers to ENCOURAGE people to trash their old and still serviceable Carz for new even less durable Volts, which is gonna need a new Battery Pack probably in 5 years or less. A few people buy into this idea, but overall the number of people with a viable Credit rating to offer them Credit to buy a new Chevy Volt isn’t enough to justify the Production Line, and these folks keep driving their 20 year old Mazda MPVs.

Transfer this whole idea from this side of the Pond over to Krautland and it’s Client states of the PIIGS. Every time I read one of the MANY articles where Krauts are lauded as beig so “Industrious” and their client state Citizens “Lazy”, as was the case in a recent Der Spiegel Op-Ed, I want to Heave the Technicolor Yawn. The imbalance here has little to do with inherent qualities of “Industriousness” in Krauts and “Laziness” in Wops. The imbalance comes from roughly 70 years of Vendor Financing done by the Krauts to sell their Mercedes and BMWs to the rest of the Eurotrash in the aftermath of WWII. The Marshall Plan neatly rebuilt Kraut Industry at little cost to the Krauts, and then they proceeded to lever up on that by selling their Industrial Goods to all their neighbors. Kraut Banks made Big Profits and so did Kraut Industry. The Krauts REALLY got going well once they sold the Euro Currecy to their client states also, now they had a captive market that all had to use the Money they created through Loans. Sound Familiar? It is precisely what the Rockefellers did early on with the Dollar to sell their Oil to a captive market.

Which brings us back around here now to the original thesis of this argument, which is that you cannot get Outrageously Rich in a Conservation based economy. See , early on here John D. Rockefeller gained Monopoly over just about all Oil production and Distribution in the FSofA, but unless he could get everyone HOOKED on Oil and wanting to buy it from him using Debt Money he himself also created, he doesn’t get Richer that God. He has control over/owns all the Oil in the World, but if people don’t use it, waste it etc, it just sits in the ground and he doesn’t get RtG.

The way in which the .01% really got RtG here was through Commerce, and conserving the Energy or producing really Durable goods does not do that. The faster they get people to Consume it; the shorter the lifespan of anything you buy is; the richer they get. Since they control the Resources, the Monetary system AND the Political system, you got no choice in this, you get the Industrial culture they build to make themselves RtG.

The problem faced by these folks now is that basically they have nothing left to sell at a price anybody can afford to buy, even if somebody would Vendor Finance the buyers and nobody will now. All the OLD loans are already going south here and the Oil has become too scarce and valuable to offer up at Low, Low Prices Every Day on the Walmart shelves. Because of course that is what everything Walmart is selling really IS, it is all just OIL, transmuted into various Konsumer goods and Food, but still Oil in the end here.

So, the Monetary system being run is collapsing on itself as we speak, but the Power Structures developed over the Millenia have not yet collapsed. By shoving Austerity on the Debtor countries, the Illuminati continue to sieve the last of the remaining wealth out of all these places. In the end though, all they Repo here is basically worthless flotsam and jetsam of the Age of Oil, and once they can no longer support the Big Ass Military, they will be quite done here.

When they are done, it remains incumbent on those who do survive the Zero Point to set up a BETTER system than this, one based not on Consumption of Resource, but of Conservation of it. In such a system, nobody gets Richer than God, but its the only way for Homo Sapiens to continue onward with the Great Experiment of Human Sentience. In time, I believe we will achieve this goal, but not without much Pain and much Death in the intervening period. Through this time of Great Dieing, I remain convinced the only way to insure a Clean Kitchen in the aftermath is to make sure the Vermin are Extermintated FIRST here.

Bring on the Orkin Man.

RE

Waste Based Society

Discuss this article inside the Diner

I love Olives, most any kind really although Kalamatta Olives are my favorite. They are pretty expensive though, the Spanish Manzanilla Olives are generally more affordable.

I also really like BEER. My favorite these days is Sam Adams Boston Lager, but I had many other favorites over the years,including Heineken, Dos Equis, Foster’s (my Aussie years of underage drinking ) and for a while also Grolsch.

Now, what do both Olives and Grolsch Beer have in common here, besides the fact I like both of them? In both cases displayed here, they come Packaged in Glass Jars or Bottles. Both products do come in Cans also of course, but I always liked the Glass packaged ones better.  Glass Olive Jars are often quite distinctive in their shapes, and Grolsch bottles are not only distinctive, they have a neat type of Resealable Cap on them.

Perhaps my first recollection of becoming aware that we were running a wasteful and unsustainble paradigm came from the original Coke Bottles, also made of Glass and also quite distinctive in shape. I was probably only 5 years old most when I couldn’t understand WHY we were throwing out these very nice Bottles which clearly could be reused many times over.

Eventually “recycling” became the word of the day, and you were supposed to separate your Trash into separate Bins, one for Glass, one for Aluminum Cans, one for Plastics of various kinds, one for Paper and one for Organic Waste, aka food leftovers mainly in the typical Suburban Household of the 1970s. Of course, having 5 different trash receptacles in the Kitchen never really gained all that much traction and eventually this worked down to 2, “recyclables” and non-recyclables. Somewhere, some Unidentified person sifted through the Recyclables trash on a conveyer belt separating out the Glass, Plastic, Paper and Aluminum.

Just looking at the Glass though, how was it “recycled”? The Bottles were not sent back to Coke Plants whole for rinsing and re-using, they were Crushed, melted down and Molded again into a new Coke bottle, or some other kind of bottle or Jar or maybe automotive windshield. How much Energy was saved by recycling a Glass bottle? Not much if any, and probably actually was net waste when you consider the transport issues.

Now, if you have ever seen Glassblowers in action or melted some glass yourself in a laboratory over a Bunsen Burner, you should have some idea how much energy you need to melt glass hot enough to mold into shapes. Now contemplate on how many Glass Bottles or Jars you have used through the course of your lifetime and thrown away after the product inside was consumed. For me, I know it is MANY, pretty much incalculable.

Anyhow, this problem always bugged me, and bugs me to this day. I have this real PROBLEM of Hoarding Glass Jars and Bottles. The reason I drank Grolsch mainly besides the fact the beer is pretty good was to collect up and Save the Bottles! I figured someday I would Brew my OWN Beer and these would be great to Bottle it in. The collection of Grolsch Bottles currently sits thousands of miles from where I live right now, in a Storage Unit in the Ozarks.

Since moving up to the Last Great Frontier, every time I go and buy a Jar of Olives, I can’t bring myself to THROW AWAY the Jar. Fortunately I have not become overwhelmed by Olive Jars because Fred Myers has an Olive Bar where you can scoop up what you like from the Buffet and drop it into a Plastic Container, which I don’t have too much trouble with throwing away.

Upon returning from Brazil in the late 60s, where I tagged along with the Cook to the Open markets where she bought the food, I became quickly AMAZED at how all the Dishware and Eating Utensils has become Disposable items also. In Brasil when we ate our meals, it was all off of Fine China and we had two sets of Eating utensils, the base metal Flatware we used every day and then the Fine Silver stuff we pulled out when the Rockefellers showed up and we had a big fancy Dinner.

Coming back to the FSofA after my parent’s divorce, we ate off paper plates with plastic forks and knives that got thrown out after each meal was done. I ate at GREAT Pizzeria’s in NY Shity, buying by the Slice at 25 Cents each, and each slice was served to me on a Paper Plate, along with a Paper cup for my Soft Drink, which I also threw away after the drink was consumed. No more Glassware, no more Plates to wash, MARVELOUS! Not really of course, because this was just more MOUNTAINS of endless WASTE, and Recycling never worked at all on an economic level.

The Frozen TV Dinners now morphed into Microwaveable Meals are yet another example here. I don’t remember the manufacturer, but at one point one of these Frozen Food companies put out a meal that was packaged on top of a Bakelite type plate that was REALLY sturdy and you could wash and use over and over. I started buying those early Microwaveable meals and SAVING the dishes! LOL. They were just too GOOD to throw away! Even today, there are some microwaveables packaged on plastic dishware you can easily reuse many times if you wash them after use. I do force myself to throw these away though, because keeping mountains of endless Plastic Dishware I will never need is ridiculous.

Anyhow, while the ungodly waste of energy involved in the Carz paradigm of running willy nilly around in SUVs is a great current source of Waste, the entire economic system here has been based on Waste through many areas, and probably started with the Glass Bottles. From recent stuff I have read, the Dutch apparently burned through their Peat Bogs making Glassware for export in the 1600s. Eventually the English started pulling up more Coal with the Steam Engine, but once the Dutch had to buy coal instead of use energy from the Peat Bogs to make the Glassware, it lost its economic advantage.

Just about everything we use depends on vast amounts of energy to produce, the refined Metals, the Glass, the Bricks and Mortar etc. We can’t keep making new stuff, using it once and throwing it away. This was clear to me as a 5 Year Old drinking Coke out of Glass Bottles. Exactly why it never became clear to everyone else remains a mystery to me to this day.

RE

Sloshing Water in the Sinking Euro Titanic

Discuss this article inside the Diner

Ever been aboard a boat taking on water in rough seas?

At first, even if the water is rough, ballast in the keel keeps you pretty stable. As the storm continues though, the boat takes on more and more water and the waterline moves up the hull. The ballast is no longer a great stabilizer because it doesnt represent that big a fraction of the total weight carried inside the Hull, filling with ever more water. The boat starts rocking back and forth with the waves, the inside water sloshing around right along with that.

Today in the markets we saw this effect in spades. Stocks have been crashing big time and USTs shooting to the Moon while the Euro was crashing, but today we went right over to starboard as the Money/Water went sloshing back the other way with the latest Wave, rumours of a new Master Plan in Eurotrashland to fix their unfixable problems. Treasuries get dumped to by Stocks and the Euro rises back up against the Dollar as FOREX traders ride the latest Momo Wave and try to make their daily Profit by being at the leading edge of the wave and surfing down it. Thos not quick enough with HFT Algos running their trading at best get left behind here and miss the ride. They have to sit and hold tight and wait for the next wave to come rolling in. Which it will of course, because this Storm is far from being over, it’s really just beginning here.

By now about everybody knows the Euro is Finished and the Euro Titanic will sink, but none of the really BIG Players can afford to admit that or exit their Euro Positions by wholesale dumping them on the market. So they hold onto most of the supply in the Hull and wait for it to slosh one way or the other as OUTSIDE the Hull the vast Sea of Money rolls in ever bigger waves.

All the time of course, MORE Money/Water sloshes over the gunwhales and into the boat courtesy of CBs pushing out endless liquidity waves and ever bigger bets are made inside the boat with the additional water, causing it to list from side to side at greater angles all the time.

Everybody on board knows the boat is sinking, but nobody wants to Jump Ship here, particularly since those Tiny Lifeboats named Drachma, Lira, Pesetas, Punts etc don’t look like they will hold up too long in such rough Seas. Everybody wants to get aboard the Lifeboat with the Swissie Cross painted on the front, but that one looks too overloaded already. Other folks want to get on the Golden Lifeboat, with the small problem that Gold doesn’t Float too well. Others wait for the Krauts to build a D-Mark Lifeboat, except only Krauts will be allowed on board that one if they build it in time.

Meanwhile, Floating out there in the same storm is the Mighty Ship of the Dollar. At the Helm, Captain Helicopter Ben Bernanke is motoring through the storm also on his big Nuke Powered Helicopter Carrier. Captain Super Mario Dragon is sending MAYDAY calls over the wireless to Captain Helicopter Ben to send in the Hueys, but so far they aren’t Flying. Captain HB doesn’t want to risk his Helicopters yet to save the sinking Eurotrash. He’s going to NEED those Helicopters when the Dollar ship goes down, and if he loses them trying to save the Eurotrash he won’t be able to get himself or his Officers off the Dollar when it goes down.

While the Storm Rages in the North Atlantic, over in the South China Sea Captain Sum Dum Fuk is piloting the recently built Renminby out of the Foxconn Shipyard, which has such poorly welded seams that not only is the water sloshing over the gun’ls, its flowing in right through the hull as well. Captain Sum Dum Fuk figures if he reverses direction on the Sump Pumps and pumps MORE water into the Renminby ship, this will create a pressure gradient forcing water OUT of the Hull rather than into it. So he orders his North Korean Chief Engineer Park Sum Cok to turn the pumps on Full pumping water INTO the good ship Renminby.

For the crew and passengers on all these ships, the band plays on and the deck chairs get rearranged, but few are building their own lifeboats still. The Helicopters will not come to save them, they are reserved for the Officers aboard the Good Ship Dollar. If you are not building a Lifeboat NOW, I sure hope you are one fucking good Swimmer.

RE

 

US Treasury prices fall as stock market surges

By The Associated Press–1 hour ago

U.S. Treasury prices fell sharply Wednesday as fresh hopes that Europe will address its debt crisis drew money into riskier investments.

The Dow Jones industrial average jumped 286 points, its biggest gain of the year. The surge pushed the Dow back into positive territory for 2012.

As money flowed into riskier investments like stocks and commodities, traders sold ultra-safe Treasurys. The price of the 10-year Treasury note fell 50 cents for every $100 invested, pushing its yield up to 1.64 percent as of 3:30 p.m. EDT from 1.57 percent late Tuesday. Higher bond yields reflect lower demand for the securities.

Last week, the 10-year yield hit a record low of 1.44 percent after an alarmingly weak report on the U.S. job market renewed fears about the pace of economic recovery.

Wednesday’s whiff of optimism was related to hopes that European officials will find new ways to ease the region’s debt crisis. News reports said that German and European Union officials are assembling a rescue for Spain’s teetering banks.

Spanish banks invested heavily in that nation’s real estate bubble. Some can’t afford the losses they expect on loans, and the Spanish government can’t afford to bail them out. Spain has been the latest flashpoint of worries about Europe’s financial stability.

In other trading, the price on the 30-year Treasury bond fell $1.88 per $100 invested, pushing its yield up to 2.74 percent from 2.63 percent late Tuesday.

The yield on the two-year Treasury note rose to 0.29 percent from 0.25 percent late Tuesday. The yield on the three-month Treasury bill was unchanged at 0.08 percent.

Generalisimo Bloomberg and the Big Gulp Flap

Discuss this article at El Gallinazo’s Unidentified Flying Realities Table inside the Diner 

 

This is a comment I sent into Zero Hedge:

This will sound psychotic to many of you, but the NWO is not your friend 🙂 Their intention is to kill off, one way or another, at least 90% of what war criminal Henry Kissinger (who got the pent house suite of honor at Bilderberg this week) refers to as “useless eaters.” And to put most in a stupor in the meantime. They just don’t need that many slaves and serfs now with the new technology and cybernetics. Some of this may be difficult to believe simply because it is very difficult for normal human beings with a basic sense of empathy and decency to get into the head and (empty) heart space of our global leaders. They are psychopaths and have been self-bred for psychopathy for centuries (at least). In addition, they are covertly conditioned as children to reinforce their genetic tendencies. As the late, great George Carlin put it shortly before he died, “It’s a club and you ain’t in it.”

Most of their actions have more than one reason. They are very clever and efficient in that respect. One major reason that Bloomberg is suggesting this new regulation is to force the muppets to switch to aspartame (NutraSweet) soft drinks. While HFCS is bad for your health and brain, aspartame is 20 times worse. Those well hooked up inside the Matrix will argue that aspartame must be all right because it was thoroughly tested before it was allowed to enter the food system by the FDA. Really?

Aspartame was owned by Searle in 1980, which was a failing company. The newly appointed CEO of Searle at the time was arch-demon, war criminal, and SEC DEF under Ford (and once again in the future under W) Donald Rumsfeld. He had to take a break from “public service” when the Democrats under Carter had a four year stretch. There was no way that the FDA was going to approve Aspartame under normal circumstances because it was so injurious. But Reagan owed Rumsfeld. An executive order was signed by Reagan his second day in office that the acting Commissioner of the FDA was not to take any regulatory decisions regarding aspartame until a new, Reagan administration one was approved by the Senate and took office. The new one, of course, was vetted by Rumsfeld, and pushed aspartame through against any opposition by career scientists. If you think I am making this shit up, research it. The dots are pretty much in the public record. You just have to connect them.

Too Low for Too Long

A response made to Steve from Virginia’s Too Low for Too Long  thread on Economic Undertow

RE

Discuss this post inside the Diner 

Too Low for Too Long?  For sure, but why so low for so long?

Those who took control over the Oil resource early on in the game, aka John D. Rockefeller and Pals had to make it Affordable for people to buy, elsewise why control the resource at all, eh?

Who issues the Credit to buy this resource from John?  John issues it of course, and places an interest charge on his loan.  John keeps the interest low as long as he has plenty of Oil flowing cheaply out of the ground around Jed Clampett’s farm, but when he starts running Short on Oil to sell, the prices rise and the credit cost in interest to buy it rises also.  John is still doing fine of course despite the shrinking supply and falling demand, and will continue to do fine right up until it completely runs dry here.  He’ll just keep downsizing and selling to Boutique Economies until the system shrinks so much as to no longer being able to support even one Oil field and One Tanker Ship and One Refinery and One distribution network for the finished product.

Along the way, John ALSO invested in and built many structures all dependent on the Oil he controlled and sold.  He invested in Henry Ford’s Carz of course, and Edison’s Lightbulb.  Lovely inventions all these things were also, and EVERYBODY wanted one, to be part of the great Future they all promised.  Just look at the photos from the Chicago World’s Fair of 1893 to see the Gleaming Future promoted, and really every World’s Fair thereafter also right up to the one I attended in 1964 in Flushing Meadows park in NYC.

It was all of course a Dream, a Bubble created which sieved great wealth into the hands of the people who controlled this once seemingly inexhaustible resource, while at the same time “improving” the lives of everyone suckered into the game here.  The Bubble is Burting now, fittingly first going down the tubes in the place where accessing thermodynamic energy from fossil fuels all began, in Eurotrashland where the Stem Engine was first used to pump the water from Coal Mines.

Nobody can issue credit to buy stuff that just is not there to buy anymore, not at prices which make a Profit on the extraction anyhow.  Not even John D. Rockefeller or his heirs can Make Something from Nothing of course.

So one by one here the Dominoes topple, the weakest like Greece going first down the Toilet hear, Spain soon to follow.  The Powerful are Ringfencing and using the Big Ass Military they control to keep their own systems running a bit longer here than everybody else.  How long that can last is anybody’s guess, but I suspect not all that long.

Nothing wil stop this cascade failure, no monetary fix can work, no Fiscal Union of Europe and no amount of QE by Helicopter Ben and his CB Cronies either.  The PARTY is OVER.   The Keg has run dry here.  Now we will REVERSE ENGINEER our way back to a low per capita energy footprint on Mother Earth, or we wll go the way of the Dinosaur.  Over/Under on this is about 50-50 at the moment, getting worse all the time though.

Come With Me if You want to LIVE!

Ever wonder what REAL Doom discussion is like?  Here’s today’s sample from inside the Diner.

RE

Chip in your 2 cents on the fate of Humanity inside the Diner 

RE, So if I follow your logic correctly you want to try to steer the soon to be stampeding herd in the direction of the wolves and hopefully trample them?  I think that might require too much accuracy for a herd to do effectively, the wolves have very good hiding spots and superior tactics to lesser predators.  The upper level pigmen though would be easier targets, and for a brief while the internet could be used to light up there trough and feeding locals and let the mob at them (should be easy with drone and hacking tech)

The Herd Analogy is not the Whole Plan, its just a part of it.  Homo Sapiens are not Wildebeests in reality, although we share characteristics with them which can be useful here.
The Herd is kind of a WMD that produces a lot of collateral damage.  Its not a Weapon you want to unleash unless absolutely necessary, which in this case it probably is.  However, I am all for utilizing other more Directed Attacks here, possible in many ways.  There are MANY Wildebeest Hackers out there who can wreak havoc with systems the Wolves use for control of the herd.  Human Wildebeests can Flash Mob in targetted ways as opposed to moving the whole Herd in a Stampede at once.  Human Wildebeests ALSO can Flip Paradigms and become Lone Wolves as well, though you just never know where a Lone Wolf will strike and how that one will play out.    Lone Wolves are Loose Cannons and very Dangerous to all, but at the same time they can be instrumental in such a battle.

The problem is even if you took out a good chunk of the upper crust of the pyramid we still have such deep structural problems in our economic ecosystem that it would probably only soften the blow (by freeing up some assets and levers to make a few changes), it would not be an answer.

I don’t really agree with that.  If you take out a good chunk of the Upper Crust, the system as a whole will collapse.  I just made this argument in response to SB over on TAE.  Its the Motherboard Argument.  The Upper Crust or Illuminati as I usually refer to them here represent the Motherboard of the Laptop of Industrial Civilization.  You take out the Motherboard, the laptop will crash in the Blue Screen of Death.

Now if you are arguing that we must conduct an inquisition because otherwise we are going to go extinct, then you may have a more weighty argument.  However you must prove with a high probability that we are in danger of extinction.  I personally do not see that danger.

You don’t see that danger?  Let me refresh your vision with a couple of pictures

Mother earth has been through worse than this from her own violent past of methane burbs, volcanic eruptions, and comet collisions. To my knowledge Mutually Assured Destruction keeps the likelihood of extinction events low, even if the grid failed and we were left with multiple failed nuclear reactor sites we still aren’t talking extinction events are we?  Similarly with war too.  In some twisted way there is some stabilization that the exceedingly greedy seem to exert on the exceedingly stupid sheeple, there is I suspect a twisted symbiosis that exists there, and until we have a highly evolved self sufficient population we probably will have wolves and sheep and natural cycles of imbalance between the two.

Long term here, Mother Earth will heal herself.  I have no fears for Mother Nature until the Sun goes Red Giant and frys the planet to a crisp, life will continue onward regardless of Supervolcanos or Asteroid Collisions.  OK, an Interplanetary Collision with a near Earth size object might take out all life also, or if the Mother Earth gets ripped out of orbit by a passing Neutron Star that could do it too.  Otherwise, no worries here for Mother Earth.

The issue is the survival of Homo Sapiens and the Great Experiment of Human Sentience here.  While the Earth will almost surely continue onward for a good long time teeming with SOME kind of life form (probably Tardigrades who are pretty resilient to just about anything, you can freeze them up in space and expose them to gamma rays and the suckers STILL come back to life in the right conditions), the situation is more grim right now for Homo Sapiens, along with many other creatures above the level of the Tardigrades.

Not only are we exhausting the planet of many resources and converting them into waste that is for the most part unusable by any creatures above bacterial level here,  for ourselves as a species we are setting up a St Matthews Island Deer Scenario.  Have you ever looked at the Population Graph for the Deer on St. Matthews Island?  This is atypical graph for populations in extreme overshoot conditions.  If we have 10,000 Human Souls or 1000 Breeding Pairs left here after this as was the case after Toba, I think we will be pretty damn fortunate at this point.

So yeah we need a radical re-balance, but forcing it seems like a last ditch effort only to be conducted when it is clear the system will go to chaos anyways.  Are we there yet?

Yes we are there IMHO.  Terminator time. Come with me if you want to LIVE!
RE

Out with the Internet, In with Da Goobernet: Register to Read

Discuss this article inside the Diner

 

I was doing my usual Googling to read through the MSM reports on the latest in Collapse topics, and there were a couple of article titles regarding Spain and Rajoy I wanted to read. One from the WSJ, other from FT.

Now, in prior Google adventures in surfing, most of the time even if something was “premium content”, if you came in via a Google search you could at least read that article. No more, at least as far as WSJ and FT are concerned. For WSJ, you get just a couple of lines and if you wanna read the rest, you gotta pay. For FT, you don’t have to pay as of yet, but you do have to Register to Read.

Now, I don’t about the rest of you guys, but I try not to register an email addy on every goddam site I go read at even if its free. It ALWAYS ends up with more SPAM in your mailbox of course. Besides that, it’s still more Data Mining on your preferences and proclivities by TPTB. The only time I register is if I want to participate on the site in some way, or of course also when you buy something online you can’t help but register including your credit/debit card number. If I have to register on every site I just go to READ, fuhgeddaboudit.

So, in terms of really being able to freely surf the web and research information, the window here is rapidly closing. For the most part the Blogs are still free and don’t require registration to read, but popular pundits more and more only SELL their information with Premium Memberships. Chris Martenson does that, John Hussman and even Speedy Gonzalo Lira does it, although I just cannot IMAGINE who is paying him $300/year to read his bloviations.

Anyhow, now except for other Bloggers with memberships who paste info from the WSJ in their posts, I won’t be getting any more stories to write about from them. Which is probably good, since reading Hilsenrath’s trash just rots your brain with propaganda anyhow. Hopefully for a while more at least Al-Jazeera and Russia Today will allow free reads.

Eventually I can see a day coming where all Bloggers will have to register with Da Goobermint and pay a scaled price depending on your readership base for the priviledge of Blogging on the Goobernet. This first of all forces all Bloggers to be Registered with the Ministry of Propaganda and regularly reviewed for the “appropriateness” of your content. Second, it will then force the Bloggers to pass on the cost of this to their Readers, unless they are independently wealthy and wish to pay the cost themselves. Then as a Blog Reader, unless you are independently wealthy, you probably only will pick 2 or 3 Blogs to read maybe because the costs would quickly add up even if you were only charged say $1/mo per blog. I’m sure in the course of a month I read at least 50 different Blogs at least once when following Links. If each time I went to a new one I had to register and pay to read, I’m not going to do it.

In this way, Da Goobermint achieves Economic Censorship without actually “Censoring Free Speech”. Because there IS no “Free Speech” on the Internet after a while, it all COSTS MONEY.

Its still possible to set up a Blog for free on Blogspot, and even buying your own domain and doing a WP Blog isn’t very expensive at least as long as you have a friend like Peter who knows how to install the software on the server space you buy. Also still possible to read most of these Blogs for Free without Registering also. The writing is on the wall though, and even if the Internet survives a few more years, as a medium for the free flow of information it will wither and die and become pretty much strictly a Goobermint/Corporate Propaganda tool. The only Websites which will be “Free” to read are those being supported by Goobermint Tax Dollars or Corporate Profits as a means either to Propagandize or Advertize.

Meanwhile for a Blogger like yourself who gets most of his information to write about by sifting through the MSM and the rest of the Blogosphere, my source material gets thinner by the day. Still can read the Headlines and the Newswire stuff from AP and Reuters usually as well, but as far as what the NYT, WP and WSJ have to say about anything, I’m clueless. I just don’t read them anymore because I am NOT going to pay to read their Propaganda.

RE

F7 Print Button in Lock Up

Discuss this article inside the Diner 

For those hoping for a rapid response from CBs to the gathering storm here, at least according to the MSM a massive coordinated Global Printfest does not seem in the cards, at least for next week. At the same time, without a massive intervention here, it is hard to see how the Spanish will survive through to the end of next week either.

Super Mario Dragon, head of the ECB is getting more strident in his calls for Eurobonds and a Transfer Union with full fiscal and monetary integration, with all the concomitant loss of National Sovereignty and elimination of Democratic political control that implies. HUGE pressure now on the Krauts to pick up the Tab for the cascading debt Tsunami surrounding them, but of course in reality the Krauts can’t afford to pick everybody’s tab here either.

So, a EZ breakup now seems pretty inevitable, and as usual it is the timeline question which is the most tricky. The Greeks are in such Dire Straits now that if they don’t pull out and at least TRY issuing Drachma the only thing that will keep anything moving around that economy at all is Barter systems. Same with the Spics, they have to try the Peseta route.

So it is time for a Thought Experiment here about exactly how such a fracture back into multiple currencies in Eurotrashland would be handled on an International Trade level, administered of course by the BIS in Switzerland.

They probably do have Legacy Software they used back in the day to track all these currencies, but of course also back then there was a market for the debt each of these countries sold as well. The big problem here is that even with a Debt Jubilee of all the current MOUNTAINS of debt, there isn’t a market for NEW debt either! If you actually have some money, why would you lend it to anybody when there is no reasonable expectation you would ever be paid back for it? The funniest one in this regard are the investors currently buying Kraut debt, who actually are PAYING the Krauts for the priviledge of holding their debt! LOL. This on the theory of course that it is better to only trickle away your money than to risk losing it all at once. This situation is an anomaly however, and would not apply to any other nation in the EZ than Krautland once they move to separate currencies.

So then the question is, could these countries issue NON-DEBT money that would function to buy stuff at least inside their own borders? Possibly and it would certainly be an interesting experiment, but even if they do that they will still need to try to earn some FOREX, namely Dollars right now that still will buy them some Oil. Or they could try the Nazi trick of doing Direct barter of something they produce which an OPEC nation needs for their Oil, which generally speaking is mostly Food of course.

However, run that idea out in the case of Spain for instance. They have good arable land there and can certainly grow more food than say the Iranians can on their patch of desert. Even if the Spics have surplus food to barter with the Towel Heads though, can they grow ENOUGH to both feed their own population AND trade with the Iranians for enough Oil to run their Carz? This of course returns us to the Choice Steve presents all the time on EU, is do you feed the Carz or feed the People?

So you say, “But the Nazis did it! They produced Railroad Cars and got Raw materials from the Argentinians!” Indeed they did, but of course at the time the Nazis had one of the few industrial apparati necessary for producing railroad cars AND there was a ton of excess Oil out there for them to do that with. The Spics don’t have industrial apparatus to build anything the Towel Heads want that the Chinese can’t build cheaper. So bartering Finished Goods with the Towel Heads won’t work for the Spics.

On the Grand Scale across the EU this is pretty much true for everybody except the Krauts, who still do produce some finished goods the Towel Heads want. However, since the price of their Oil is going up, it costs a lot more for the Krauts to produce the finished goods, so they have to raise the prices on them high enough to make some Value Added profit from burning said Oil. As they raise those prices, the Towel Heads then cannot afford to buy the BMWs unless of course they divert some of their Oil revenue from buying Food to buying BMWs. Again the choice is between feeding the Carz or feeding the Peoples.

When the market drops off the map for the BMWs, the Krauts of course also will be in the same situation as the Spics and everybody else in Eurotrashland. They also will have only Food to trade for Oil. Once you take away the advantage in production that Industrialization powered by cheap energy has, just about everybody can produce inside their own society the finished goods that they need. They don’t NEED to trade for them. Trade only results when various cultures all have surplus and so begin to produce non-essential items other people also in surplus covet for one reason or another.

In the situation we find ourselves in NOW, after years of resource depletion and expanding population overshoot is that in fact nobody really is in surplus anymore and the vast pool of stored thermodynamic energy to prduce so much suplus is petering out here. Not disappearing overnight, but rapidly becoming to expensive to burn for the purpose of driving Carz around willy nilly or even making Iphones that nobody REALLY needs, they just WANT them. The monetary system implosion is just a representation of the fact that there is not surplus and there is not a future expectation of ROI by buying anybody’s debt. You won’t be paid back, so why invest in anything or loan money to anyone? If you HAVE money or control over resources, you keep them for yourself and try not to LOSE them or have them taken from you. Both of which get more difficult all the time of course, both on the Micro level of the Individual and the Macro Level of the Nation State. Far as the OPEC Nations are concerned, at this point their problem is that since Industrialized nations cannot afford to BUY their Oil from them anymore, now they are trying to STEAL it instead, using the Big Ass Military. For the Individual, the issue is that since their is no Growth, instead of trying to sieve profit off a growing economy, those in control are STEALING the money through Taxation to bailout TBTF Banks, reneging on Pension Plan agreements and selling Trash for Cash like Facepalm to INCREDIBLY stupid Investors who just are ASKING to be bilked and deserve the fate they got for that stupidity. Always a SUCKER out there of course. I don’t feel sorry for any of those people, but for the people who have Pension Plans they have no control over who Invested in such trash, I do feel sympathy. Their money and their futures are being stolen from under them from gimmicks like this, and they have no control over that. The money from doing these deals is being pocketed here by a few very BIG Thieves at the top, and it is time now to STOP this theft once and for all time, by whatever means is necessary to do so.

RE

Central Banks to hold fire… for now

By Richard Hubbard

LONDON | Sat Jun 2, 2012 7:39am EDT

(Reuters) – The intensifying euro zone crisis and uncertain global growth outlook have raised hopes for a policy response from major central banks but, while it could be a close call, they are likely to resist pressure to act in the coming week.

The European Central Bank, the Bank of England and the Reserve Bank of Australia are all due to meet as data emerges on the euro zone’s service sector, and the manufacturing and trade performances of the big German and U.S. economies.

The main focus will be Wednesday’s ECB meeting, and whether dramatic selling of peripheral European government debt by investors in May and a flight into safe-haven U.S. Treasuries and German government bonds will prompt it to act.

One reason to doubt a major shift in policy is that, even after U.S. Treasury 10-year notes hit yields not seen in more than two centuries of record keeping, and investors began paying the German government for the right to hold its debt, the move across all markets may not warrant it.

“The stresses appear not yet to be big enough across all asset classes for the policymakers to react,” said Richard Batty, global investment strategist at Standard Life Investments.

“It all seems to be playing out in investor’s appetite for triple-A government bonds and for the dollar, but there doesn’t seem to be the volatility or sharp falls in equity markets or other stresses in the system, such as the funding market.”

In Europe, the spread between three-month Libor rates and overnight rates, seen as a measure of health of the banking system, has been stable throughout May – mainly due to the more than one trillion euros of cheap funds injected into the system by the ECB in December and February.

And while May was a bad month for equity markets everywhere and Spain and Italy in particular, the widely watched Dow Jones .DXY and S&P 500 .SPX indexes remain in positive territory for the year to date.

Those gains were under threat on Friday, however, as disappointing May U.S. jobs data sparked heavy selling, sending the MSCI world equity index .MIWD00000PUS back to where it started the year.

The VIX index .VIX, often referred to as the market’s fear gauge stood at 25 points, in line with its levels of last December but well below the 48 points seen at the height of last year’s market turmoil in August and September.

POLITICAL MOVES

A heavy calendar of events throughout June which could help determine how the euro zone crisis unfolds may also encourage Europe’s key monetary policymakers to hold fire.

Greek elections are due on June 17, following a first round of French parliamentary elections on June 10. The heads of the G20 group of nations will hold a summit on June 18 and 19, while Europe’s leaders gather at the end of the month to decide their next response to the crisis.

But pressure is growing for action from the ECB to calm acute nervousness about a potential Greek exit from the currency bloc, and fears that the cost to Spain of saving its fragile banks will mean the country itself has to be rescued.

“The ECB is currently the only institution that can credibly counter a collective loss of confidence on the scale we’re now witnessing,” said Nicholas Spiro, Managing Director at debt consultancy Spiro Sovereign Strategy.

Spanish bond yields have surged in the past week to near their highest level since the launch of the euro, raising questions about the country’s ability to fund itself over the longer term without outside help.

Spain will provide a big test of investor sentiment when it auctions more government bonds on Thursday as its 10-year bond yields hover around 6.5 percent – close to the 7 percent level at which other indebted countries have been forced to seek aid.

The latest Reuters poll of economists found most still expected the ECB to resist pressure to cut interest rates before the end of next year, but that majority has shrunk from previous polls as gloomy economic data rolls in. Just 11 of the 73 respondents expected the bank to cut rates on June 6.

The Bank of England is also expected to resist calls to pump more money into the depressed UK economy when it meets on June 7, according to a separate Reuters poll, although it found there was an even chance the central bank would restart the printing presses at some point in future. POLL3

A slim majority of economists expect Australia’s central bank to keep interest rates unchanged on Tuesday, but this is an even closer call as a growing number of banks, including the nation’s top four, are calling for a cut. AURATE1

Meanwhile, the U.S. Federal Reserve Board’s mid-month policy meeting and the end of its current easing policy, known as ‘Operation Twist’, could also bring changes.

“With dark clouds gathering over the global economy and the euro area crisis intensifying, the ‘Great Monetary Easing Part 2′ looks set to accelerate again as many major central banks around the globe are gearing up for more action in the next month or two,” said Manoj Pradhan of Morgan Stanley.

Of Wildebeests and Wolves

Following here is a Repost of an Ongoing Debate on The Automatic Earth in the Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed thread,  mainly between RE and Ashvin Pandurangi, with Notable Commentary also from Karpatok and Skipbreakfast.  I am presenting this thread in full to date including the Original Article by Ashvin, minus one post of mine Ashvin Accidentally Deleted.  Excerpts from that post appear in one of his rebuttals however.  Long and fun Debate overall.

RE

PS: Not gonna try to clean this one up in terms of excising the various comment boxes and so forth.  Don’t use them here, go to the OP on TAE if you want to contribute to the debate over there.

Discuss this Debate inside the Diner 

updated June 2, 2012

TOPIC: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed

Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 2 days, 10 hours ago #3264

Even though it is obvious that the major banks wield tremendous influence over bureaucratic political systems worldwide, it is not often that you find the phrase “bankster puppet” illustrated so clearly in the mainstream media. Usually, there is some pretense or alternative justification for doling out billions of euros, dollars, etc. to the banks, such as – “if we don’t do this, the entire global economy will implode” (remember TARP?). Back then, people didn’t have a clue what was going on and were scared enough to go along with any vague reason presented to them.

So it’s interesting to see now that these pretenses for direct wealth transfers from the people to the banks have been dropped like bad habits. In Europe, the financial atmosphere has become so dire and desperate that the PUPPET politicians and bureaucrats can no longer pretend that they care about anything other than saving the banks at the expense of everyone else. Exhibit A are the excerpts from an article in Bloomberg today that are quoted below, written by James G. Neuger:

EU Weighs Direct Aid to Banks, Euro Bonds as Crisis Antidote

The European Commission called for direct euro-area aid for troubled banks, and touted a Europe- wide deposit-guarantee system and common bond issuance as antidotes to the debt crisis now threatening to overwhelm Spain.

        The commission, the European Union’s central regulator, sided with Spain in proposing that the euro’s permanent bailout fund inject cash to banks instead of channeling the money via national governments. It also offered Spain extra time to squeeze the budget deficit.

        

        The use of the rescue fund to recapitalize banks “might be envisaged” and would “sever the link between banks and the sovereigns,” the commission said today in Brussels. Jose Barroso, the commission’s president, said “it is important to use all possibilities offered in terms of flexibility.”

 

What these proposals by the European Commission (Jose Manuel Barroso) translate into is – “Forget austerity! And forget any pretenses of national considerations on how to properly use money from the bailout funds. We need the Spanish banks to take most of that money, as well as an unspecified amount of future money, and use it directly in the form of capital buffers and deposit guarantees… NOW!” With Greece, there was still time to pretend that some of the money would protect government services for the people and would come with conditions attached, designed to promote domestic growth. Not so with Spain.

Signs of stress multiplied in financial markets today. Italy missed its target in a bond auction, driving its 10-year yields as high as 6.01 percent, the highest since Jan. 31. The yield was at 5.95 percent at 2:10 p.m. in Brussels. Doubts over the health of Spain’s banks pushed up Spanish 10-year yields as high as 6.70 percent, the highest since Nov. 28. That yield was last at 6.62 percent.

        

        After more than two crisis-filled years and 386 billion euros ($480 billion) in loan pledges to Greece, Ireland and Portugal, “markets remain exceptionally tense and vigilant and confidence is still weak,” the commission said.

 

The money and blood offerings of the Greek, Irish and Portuguese were not enough to satisfy the all-encompassing hunger of the financial puppeteers. There is no doubt in my mind that at least a portion of this market “tension” is engineered by them to put the screws to those who reject the European Commission’s cold, hard cash-for-banks proposal. Remember, they ARE the system that they are trying to save, and that’s exactly why they are trying so damn hard to save it. So who could possibly have the temerity to resist?

Current EU plans call for the 500 billion-euro European Stability Mechanism, set to start up in July, to funnel bank-aid money through national governments and, ultimately, require those governments to pay it back [yeah…right].

        Germany is spearheading resistance to direct European financing for banks because that would let governments bypass the conditions set for full aid programs, such as deeper budget cuts and more European intrusion into economic management.

        Direct help for banks is out of the question, that won’t fly,” Norbert Barthle, the budget spokesman in parliament for Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union, said in an interview yesterday. Finland is in Germany’s camp, Martti Salmi, a Finance Ministry official, said in a telephone interview today.

 

Ah, yes – the resistance comes from a small, yet critical portion of the German, Finnish and Dutch politicians/officials, and, more importantly, from the people of those countries. These countries are scared to death of financial contagion wreaking havoc in their banking systems, but they are also faced with the reality that this contagion will occur no matter what. The only question is whether they would prefer to kick the can a few months/years down the road, and allow the European Transfer Union to unwind all of the economic gains they had made over the last two decades while they wait. Also, whether they would like to go into elections with a population on the verge of mass protests and riots.

In an assessment by staff economists, the commission said there is little room for deficit-plagued countries to push back planned savings to a later date. Such an easing-up would be punished by markets, it said.

        “Member states which face high and potentially rising risk premia do not have much room for maneuver to deviate from their nominal fiscal targets, even if macroeconomic conditions turn out worse than expected,” according to the document.

        Still, Economic and Monetary Commissioner Olli Rehn said Spain might be granted an extra year, until 2014, to bring its deficit down to the limit of 3 percent of gross domestic product.

        Debate over euro bonds flared at last week’s summit of European leaders, the first for French President Francois Hollande after he took office vowing to challenge the German- dominated budget-cutting creed that has marked the crisis response

.

The new French President, Francois Hollande, is now exposing himself to be the biggest bankster puppet of them all. He is opposing the imminent austerity paradigm because he knows that the bankers need more time (and less conditions) to extract the wealth required to satisfy their greed. Austerity served to justify the bailouts over the past two years, but now it is also destroying the underlying economies of the peripheral countries and, therefore, the banking sectors. Hollande also knows that the French banks are not really in much better shape than the Spanish banks, and may need to draw on those direct ESM funds soon.

What he wants is what the rest of the European Puppets want – enough time to re-capitalize the Euro area banks with the money of German, Finnish and Dutch taxpayers. The problem for them is that the German, Finnish and Dutch populations (and those politicians who are not yet corrupted) are not altogether ignorant of what happened in 2008 and what has been happening ever since. They know that none of the money used to bail out peripheral banks will a) make it into the general Eurozone economy, b) repaid by the banks and c) conditioned on any credible austerity. There is absolutely no reason for them to play ball; at least, not until the market pressures bearing down get much, much worse.

But, by then, it may be too late for the Banksters and their Eurocratic Puppets.

Read More…

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 2 days, 2 hours ago #3268

RE wrote:

…Main problem of course remains all that nasty EXPOSURE Eurotrash Banks  have to Greek Debt, not to mention all those nasty Derivatives set to EXPLODE as soon as Greece finally does miss a Bond Payment.  So regardless of the fact Widows and Orphans might be starving in Greece, the ECB or IMF or ESM or some other cockamamie vehicle will pay off on Bonds FOR the Greek “People”, to “Help” them.  No Euros will cross the Greek Border, but plenty will cross into the Vaults of JPMC, Goldman and Deutche Bank!
Anyhow, the nonsensical idea that the Euro problems or even the Greek MINISCULE ones were solved at any point in this long charade of Extend & Pretend is OFFICIALLY squashed here now, NO MEETING of Von Rumplestiltskin, Kukla, Fran and Ollie Rehn, Francoise Hollandaise Sauce or any other newly elected Eurotrash Pol is going to convince ANYBODY that ANY problems have been solved.  They are SOL on Political and Economic Cards to play here now.  The Clown Show has run its course here, so unfortunately the NEW Clowns will be sent in.   The next bunch of Clowns are unlikely to be quite so funny as this last bunch…
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 2 days, 2 hours ago by Reverse Engineer. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 2 days, 2 hours ago #3269

  • Karpatok
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
John Ward on the Slog has reported to day that his sources have told him the prisoners in Greek prisons are receiving no food or rations. That in addition to no medicines, health care, education etc for the regular population. Some people in Athens have created public gardening plots for producing some “free” food. Is Greece the first act to be followed by the rest of Europe and finally the USA?  What does it take for a storming of the Bastille?
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 2 days, 2 hours ago by Karpatok. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 2 days, 1 hour ago #3270

  • Karpatok
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
While most writers on the subject seem to be in agreement that every thing is enacted to benefit the banks, I would like to address the ownership of said banks or masters of the puppetry above the scenes. If even the Dimons and Blankfeins, the Obamas, Hollandes, Merkels etc. are second tier or even below, who the hell are we talking about. Who is at the top of this mess. Now Ashvin, Re, you are pretty smart guys, and I know that you have strong opinions. So have a little courage and stop hiding in generalities. NAME SOME NAMES. Because when I become Robespierre, I will want to know who I am sending to the guillotine. No more milkmaids, but the real evil stuff. Now SAY IT! Who are they? Or who do you in all fallibility think THEY ARE?
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 2 days ago #3271

Karpatok wrote:

While most writers on the subject seem to be in agreement that every thing is enacted to benefit the banks, I would like to address the ownership of said banks or masters of the puppetry above the scenes. If even the Dimons and Blankfeins, the Obamas, Hollandes, Merkels etc. are second tier or even below, who the hell are we talking about. Who is at the top of this mess. Now Ashvin, Re, you are pretty smart guys, and I know that you have strong opinions. So have a little courage and stop hiding in generalities. NAME SOME NAMES. Because when I become Robespierre, I will want to know who I am sending to the guillotine. No more milkmaids, but the real evil stuff. Now SAY IT! Who are they? Or who do you in all fallibility think THEY ARE?

I think you will be disappointed in your search for an ultimate mastermind. In a world of highly complex systems, human beings at all levels of society–including the very top–are buffeted by unforeseen forces and ultimately unable to control them. That isn’t to say that the rich and powerful aren’t incredibly opportunistic, but I’m convinced they take advantage of change rather than explicitly effecting such change. My concern is that the human need to search for mastermind geniuses behind our woes has a terrible track record in our history. We usually end up blaming entirely innocent groups of people. The SYSTEM needs to change, and we can be part of changing that system. Cutting off an individual matermind’s head will do nothing one way or the other (except add to another kind of evil).

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 2 days ago by skipbreakfast. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 2 days ago #3272

  • Karpatok
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
OK, RE, granted that you announced the merger of RIT and the Rockefellers over at the kitchen sink at the Diner but isn’t there a little more to it than that? Previous Rothschild consolidation in Europe, and now purchase of 37% of Rockefeller by Rothschild Investment Trust, in order to have a bigger footprint in USA. Does the Vatican still own Bank of America or is that passe already. Come  on, these revelations are leaving me breathless in anticipation. Flesh out the broader picture please and in the present time. We don,t have to go back to 1692 and reinvitation of the Userers to jolly old England.
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 2 days ago #3273

What about our own individual responsiblity in this whole mess? We’re voters. We’re consumers. We have free will. I don’t want to blame the victim. But I also want to avoid wasting time on blaming Puff the Magic Dragon.
I have no doubt heads will roll before this is over. They will largely be symbolic gestures, and not necesarily true justice. Again, let’s recognize we are party to a big system that is corrupt, and we have enabled a lot of really corrupt people to make things worse and worse. Is it too trite to say “change starts with us”?
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 2 days ago by skipbreakfast. Report to moderator
The following user(s) said Thank You: Candace, rlmrdl

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 day, 23 hours ago #3274

  • Karpatok
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
Sorry, Skip, but I’ve been dropping my Calvinism lately. I’m no victim.But I’m not responsible either, and you are just suggesting that we don’t make a very deep inquiry. I am convinced that what we were taught in school about , democracy, level playing field, raising oneself by one’s own bootstraps, right to vote, personal responsibility, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, has been an enormous smokescreen to hide a few ugly realities. So what’s the tabu on talking about the bigger realities? You are also a smart guy. What are you afraid of? And BTW this isn’t Puff the Magic Dragon. Let’s hear your analysis of who is behind debt slavery and usury. If it’s a waste of time for you then you are excused. But I really want to understand the full system if you don’t mind.
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 day, 20 hours ago #3277

@KK
The Rothschilds and Rockefellers present clear and obvious targets, but even they are just Tip of the Iceberg here.
“Ownership” of the world as it is constructed is tiered up through many layers of Holding Companies.  The paperwork on this stuff in some cases is hundreds of years old and buried so deep in the vaults in the City of London it will take decades of forensic accounting to determine who actually owns what and how the money flow gets directed, if it is even possible to do that at all.
If *I* knew who all was at the pinnacle of the pyramid, I’d surely name the names, and surely also come down with Bullet meets Brain disease or an untimely Coronary.
IMHO, the only way to work your way to the Top of the Pyramid is to start with who by virtue of what is obvious you know have a connection to the next tier up the pyramid.  You bring them in, one by one in front of the Inquisition and you give them a good reason to TALK.  If they really do NOT know who is above them and have no worthwhile information, this is unfortunate but you can’t make an Omelette without breaking a Few Eggs, and besides that they are GUILTY in their own right anyhow of their own set of crimes against humanity.
Now, SB might consider such an Inquisition not to have worthwhile value, but IMHO it does.  First off, even if they are not the TOP level VERMIN, they still make the Kitchen an unpleasant place to cook, so they need to be exterminated also.  Besides that, on a social level, it is important to reinforce to people that Greed does NOT pay.  Really, how many people do you think would strive to become Billionaires if on a Nightly Basis Reality TV was showing Pigman Executions?  I know I would have a low motivation level to strive for that if I was a kid watching TV.
The whole problem we have here is that for Millenia we have acquiesced to the idea that Greed DOES pay, we never got control of the infestation from the get go here.  Now the Earth is INFESTED with VERMIN so you can’t fix this just with a few Perp Walks here.
Now, I do believe that it is possible to Repent and do Penitence for your Sins, so any Pigman who willingly comes forward to divest himself of his ill gotten gains and agrees to do penitence for the rest of his life scrubbing out cesspools can be allowed to live.  This is fair and IMHO GENEROUS, considering the fact prior to repentance said Pigman probably was responsible for the deaths of 1000s of starving children.
I do also suggest the Inquistion has some Cutoffs here in the early stages.  You could set a minimum net worth of say $1B at the beginning of Criminals to bring before the Auto da Fe, this alone would fill up the docket pretty well with 10,000 or more people I suspect.  That will take some time to work through.
Eventually here you will locate the top of the pyramid cockroaches.  May take some time, but persistence pays off.
Bring in the Orkin Man.

RE

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 day, 20 hours ago #3278

  • Karpatok
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
Furthermore, I don’t see how retiring to a sweet permaculture doomstead is going to be change we can all believe in. I don’t believe there is one mastermind genius behind it all either, but I do believe that a relatively few very wealthy, powerful and uncaring evil people have a chokehold on society such that anything less than revolution will not help. The Augean stables need to be turned upside down to wash out the filth and if a few heads roll in the process in the process, that’s just the way it is. Maybe Marie Antoinette was innocent for example, but she kept walking on by and refused to look. So it depends on what you call innocent heads that roll. If ordinary folk are complicit simply for being within the system, then what are the movers and shakers? I want to give them a face so I’ll know to aim at them and not their go betweens.
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 day, 19 hours ago #3279

Karpatok wrote:

Furthermore, I don’t see how retiring to a Maybe Marie Antoinette was innocent for example, but she kept walking on by and refused to look. So it depends on what you call innocent heads that roll. If ordinary folk are complicit simply for being within the system, then what are the movers and shakers? I want to give them a face so I’ll know to aim at them and not their go betweens.

Marie Antoinette was GUILTY, merely by being complicit and a part of the French Arsitocracy of the time.  From Wikipedia”

Marie Antoinette ( /məˈriː æntwəˈnɛt/ or /æntwɑːˈnɛt/; French pronunciation: [maʁi ɑ̃twanɛt]; baptised Maria Antonia Josepha Johanna (or Maria Antonia Josephina Johanna[1]); 2 November 1755 – 16 October 1793) was an Archduchess of Austria and the Queen of France and of Navarre. She was the fifteenth and penultimate child of Holy Roman Empress Maria Theresa and Holy Roman Emperor Francis I.
In April 1770, on the day of her marriage to Louis-Auguste, Dauphin of France, she subsequently became Dauphine of France. Marie Antoinette assumed the title of Queen of France and of Navarre when her husband, Louis XVI of France, ascended the throne upon the death of Louis XV in May 1774. After seven years of marriage, she gave birth to a daughter, Marie-Thérèse Charlotte, the first of four children.
Initially charmed by her personality and beauty, the French people generally came to dislike her, accusing “L’Autre-chienne” (a pun in French playing with the words “Autrichienne” meaning Austrian (woman) and “Autre-chienne” meaning Other bitch) of being profligate and promiscuous,[2] and of harboring sympathies for France’s enemies, particularly Austria, her country of origin.[3]
After the royal family’s flight to Varennes, Louis XVI was deposed and the monarchy abolished on 21 September 1792; the royal family was subsequently imprisoned at the Temple Prison. Nine months after her husband’s execution, Marie Antoinette was herself tried, convicted of treason, and executed by guillotine on 16 October 1793.

You know, even if she never said “let them eat cake”, from all historical records we know of Marie never was penitent for the life of priviledge she led while the rest of French society was in the Toilet.  A Monarchy is not deposed until after many years the pain for the soicety as a whole has become unbearable.
You take on great RESPONSIBILTY when you are Elite in your society for the well being of all.  If your stewardship is bad, many people DIE.  You must be accountable for that, and the only true accountability for it is that you ALSO must DIE.  Marie Antoinette got what she DESERVED.  In time, so will the Elite of this time period.
RE

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 day, 18 hours ago #3281

  • Karpatok
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
And the correct phrase for that responsibility is Noblesse Oblige. When I was young I called it the obligation of the nobles once in a serious discussion with my older sister. It is in the end, the obligation of a person of priviledge to see to the well being of others not so fortunate.It is a serious responsibility that attends one’s position and is not to be taken lightly in time frittered away.
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 day, 16 hours ago #3282

Say you can finally winnow down your search for the three or four genius masterminds behind the problems now facing billions of people. Then what? You think that by cutting off their heads the problem is solved? Obviously not! There are so many more that will happily take their place. So then, I suppose you’d argue you’d have to cut off more than three or four heads. How many exactly? Hundreds? Thousands? What degree of culpability for our predicament shall we use to determine their fate? How on earth would the degree of culpability be measured?! No. I really do love RE’s contributions here, and I have a feeling we’d get along rather well as neighbours (I’ve lived in the far north myself), but I wholly disagree that the search is worthwile for these mythical evil genius masterminds, who apparently manipulate even the Jamie Dimons and Jon Corzines like helpless puppets on a string. And I’ll say it again: there isn’t any such ultiamate evil genius at the top of the pyramid anyhow. It’s just rich people doing what rich people do–that is being human like the rest of us. The whole greedy lot. We just haven’t done a very good job at keeping things in check.
I’m not saying we don’t need to get revolutionary on some asses. And some people deserve long jail sentences. But the whole thing is far more systemic, and no one has a master plan with an all-seeing eye for present, past and future. They’re not that smart. No one is. Too much chaos to track.
History is replete with a minority of oppressive rich people crushing the poor. In fact the 20th Century freedoms from this repression are more of an historical anomaly, from my understanding. It’s not surprising we lost the plot. But we can still get it back, I think. I’d rather we focused on things we can actually achieve, rather than chasing ghosts and mythical creatures with supernatural powers.
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 1 day, 16 hours ago by skipbreakfast. Report to moderator
The following user(s) said Thank You: Candace

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 day, 10 hours ago #3283

  • ashvin
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 271
  • Karma: 12
The only way we win or get justice is by changing what’s in their hearts/minds. They have to freely choose to stop working towards evil goals.
Killing them won’t work – hell, we can’t even figure out who they are. Even if we could, it would only bring us short-term satisfaction.
Everyone here knows that any targeted plan to “root out the evil” will result in large amounts of collateral damage. I don’t want to become them to (potentially) defeat them – it’s not worth it.
Nietzsche wrote:
“Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

John wrote:

“And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free”
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 day, 10 hours ago #3284

  • Candace
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: -1
@ RE “You know, even if she never said “let them eat cake”, from all historical records we know of Marie never was penitent for the life of priviledge she led while the rest of French society was in the Toilet. A Monarchy is not deposed until after many years the pain for the soicety as a whole has become unbearable.
You take on great RESPONSIBILTY when you are Elite in your society for the well being of all. If your stewardship is bad, many people DIE. You must be accountable for that, and the only true accountability for it is that you ALSO must DIE. Marie Antoinette got what she DESERVED. In time, so will the Elite of this time period.”
Since the USA is 5% of the world population and we use 25% of the energy resources and 30% of the raw material resources where does that put the US population in your definition of the elite?  Anyone with the time and money to post to this board must surely fall into that category.
When you and others get on the topic of doing away with the elite, all Ican think of is images from “The Killing Fields”.  You say you seek justice, to me it sounds more like “meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.  If you use the same methods as your enemy to deal with problems, you tend to get the same results.  The “elite” ostracize, ban and kill those who disagree with them, if you use just an “us against them” narrative all you ultimately advocate is switching a set of old insiders, righteous ones for a set of new insiders, righteous ones.  I don’t see that as a change worth while.
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 day, 9 hours ago #3286

[quote=”ashvin” post=3283]
Nietzsche wrote:

“Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

This is nonsense from the keyboard of Nietzshe.  What’s his URL?  Ill go troll his Blog.
Easy example, 2 guns, 2 shooters, 2 victims.
Case 1: Shooter goes into liquor store, kills clerk to take register money.
Motivation: Evil
Case 2: Shooter sees rape in progress, kills rapist to save victim.
Motivation: Good
You don’t become your enemy by using the same tactics, it depends onthe motivation behind it.
Insofar as numbers are concerned, I doubt there are just 3 or 4 at the very top, the numbers are probably in the thousands.  Its also a Hydra problem, where when you cut off one head, another grows to replace it.  The trick in killing a hydra is to lop off ALL the heads simultaneously.  A challenge, but not impossible to accomplish either.
Collateral damage?  No doubt, but WORSE collateral damage if you don’t do it.  Leave the vermin lose here, they’ll kill us ALL.  Seriously.  Now they want to mine Uranium in the Chesapeake Bay, as Surly mentioned in the Diner.  How long do you take this shit before you get rid of this vermin, eh?
RE www.doomsteaddiner.net

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 day, 9 hours ago #3288

@Candace,
FWIW we’re down to 20%. We are actually down a bit absolutely, and lots of other folks are up quite a lot. The rest of the OECD is similar.
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Candace

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 day, 8 hours ago #3290

  • ashvin
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 271
  • Karma: 12

[quote=”Reverse Engineer” post=3286]ashvin wrote:

Easy example, 2 guns, 2 shooters, 2 victims.
Case 1: Shooter goes into liquor store, kills clerk to take register money.
Motivation: Evil
Case 2: Shooter sees rape in progress, kills rapist to save victim.
Motivation: Good
You don’t become your enemy by using the same tactics, it depends on the motivation behind it.

You know as well as I do that this is a bad analogy to your systemic roto-rooter plan, or let’s just call it the Orkin Man Master Plan (OMMP). The OMMP is operating at very large scales and at a much more complex level than your individual person shooting to kill a murderer and/or rapist in the act of the crime.
In the individual analogy, your motivations are indeed much different than that of your targets. Actually, your tactics are different also, because there is not much premeditation involved and you seem to only be resorting to force when you just so happen to be in a position to directly save another person’s life, or at least save them from bodily harm.
In OMMP, our tactics involve premeditation and targeting specific people for extermination. Our motivation is to rid the world, via tortures and executions, of a certain number of people who we believe are counter-productive to the ability of humanity to survive and thrive. We will not hesitate to cross any thresholds to accomplish what we set out to do, and will adopt an “if you are not with us, you are against us” policy. We are going into the OMMP knowing full well that many “innocents” will be killed/harmed in the process of reaching our end goals.
Do our tactics and motivations really sound that much different from those of the Monsters we are seeking out? And that’s what Nietzsche was talking about…

Collateral damage?  No doubt, but WORSE collateral damage if you don’t do it.  Leave the vermin lose here, they’ll kill us ALL.  Seriously.  Now they want to mine Uranium in the Chesapeake Bay, as Surly mentioned in the Diner.  How long do you take this shit before you get rid of this vermin, eh?

You can’t know that for sure. For all you know, the OOMP will FAIL miserably, and they will still end up attaining their goals. Except now you will both have innocent blood on your hands. In fact, the odds are that the FAIL part is exactly what will happen. If they are going to fail also, it will most likely be because they end up destroying themselves through their own destructive actions, one way or another.

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 1 day, 8 hours ago by ashvin. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 day, 2 hours ago #3297

RE writes: “Its also a Hydra problem, where when you cut off one head, another grows to replace it. The trick in killing a hydra is to lop off ALL the heads simultaneously. A challenge, but not impossible to accomplish either.”
The hydra is an excellent analogy. A mythical creature which requires mythical strategies to dispose of it. Best left for comic books.
And besides, it’s starting to sound a wee bit….crazy.
Again, let’s focus on what we CAN accomplish. Survival. Community organisation. Education. Asset protection. We’re getting a chicken coop soon! Yeeha. My biggest fear in that regard is that when the hens stop laying (due to age) I’ll be too attached to eat them. Modern life has made me soft. I’d be useless at killing hydras even if they did exist!
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 1 day, 2 hours ago by skipbreakfast. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 20 hours, 57 minutes ago #3299

ashvin wrote:

You know as well as I do that this is a bad analogy to your systemic roto-rooter plan, or let’s just call it the Orkin Man Master Plan (OMMP). The OMMP is operating at very large scales and at a much more complex level than your individual person shooting to kill a murderer and/or rapist in the act of the crime.
In the individual analogy, your motivations are indeed much different than that of your targets. Actually, your tactics are different also, because there is not much premeditation involved and you seem to only be resorting to force when you just so happen to be in a position to directly save another person’s life, or at least save them from bodily harm.

I do NOT know as well as you do any such thing.  Its merely a matter of scale, not principle.
I will give the example of Fuk-U-shima here.  How many Deaths do you think will result from this catastrophe?  10K?  Probably already done.  100K?  Well within reasonable estimates given the proximity of the population to this disater.  Even 10M is not outta da question.
Who is responsible for this?  Somebody has to be held accountable.  IMHO, its the TEPCO Owners and Managers and their lackey Pols who built this GUN and stuck it to the head of 10M Rape Victims.
Not only did they stick the Gun to the Population in the PAST, they currently KEEP the gun pointed at everybody ELSE.  I SEE a RAPE in progress here, and I am gonna STOP it NOW by Gunning Down the who knows how many people complicit in this operation who AL are taking money out of the Cash Register at the moment.  No more Mr. Nice Guy.  This is a WAR here, and people are DYING as we speak.  I am EVEN willing to alow these folks to OWN UP to their Sins and Repent and allow them to LIVE, an opportunity they did NOT give their Victims.  So who is more Righteous here, eh?
I can make the SAME argument for the Owners and Managers and Pols who made the Macondo Blowout possible, and the same assholes who run Monsanto and push GMO foods out at the population and the SAME assholes running Big Pharma.  They are KILLING people RIGHT NOW!  BY THE MILLIONS.  It has to be STOPPED, and pussy footing around here is NOT stopping it.  No More Mr. Nice Guy now.
Just because they are protected by Corporate Personhood which allows the Individuals here to escape their culpability under this Legal System makes them no less culpable.  Like anyone who willy nilly goes out and KILLS people for their own self-aggrandizement like the Liquor Store Robber they gotta GO here.  Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth.

In OMMP, our tactics involve premeditation and targeting specific people for extermination. Our motivation is to rid the world, via tortures and executions, of a certain number of people who we believe are counter-productive to the ability of humanity to survive and thrive. We will not hesitate to cross any thresholds to accomplish what we set out to do, and will adopt an “if you are not with us, you are against us” policy. We are going into the OMMP knowing full well that many “innocents” will be killed/harmed in the process of reaching our end goals.
Do our tactics and motivations really sound that much different from those of the Monsters we are seeking out? And that’s what Nietzsche was talking about…

Sure it is “premeditated”.  Any Legal System is, and I am advocating for a Legal System which holds these folks ACCOUNTABLE, ferrets them out and brings them before the Court of the Inquisition.  Sorry, english Common Law is not WORKING.  If something doesn’t work, you try something DIFFERENT.  As Einstein said, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”.
RE wrote:

Collateral damage?  No doubt, but WORSE collateral damage if you don’t do it.  Leave the vermin lose here, they’ll kill us ALL.  Seriously.  Now they want to mine Uranium in the Chesapeake Bay, as Surly mentioned in the Diner.  How long do you take this shit before you get rid of this vermin, eh?

Ashvin wrote:

You can’t know that for sure. For all you know, the OOMP will FAIL miserably, and they will still end up attaining their goals. Except now you will both have innocent blood on your hands. In fact, the odds are that the FAIL part is exactly what will happen. If they are going to fail also, it will most likely be because they end up destroying themselves through their own destructive actions, one way or another.

I don’t know anything for sure other than the fact what we are doing AIN’T Working.  I advocate a change of tactics.  May work, may not.  if somebody comes up with a better plan, I am all ears, but IMHO here a few Perp Walks and Passive Resistance or “Active Withdrawal” is NOT a better plan with any greater chance of success, in fact I rate it lower in its possibilities for success.
Bring in the Orkin Man.
RE

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 20 hours, 29 minutes ago #3300

What we are doing ain’t working! Totally agree! Oh boy, and is it ever NOT working.
Here’s an unsettling perspective: “The End Game: 2012 & 2013”
www.zerohedge.com/news/big-reset-2012-and-2013-will-usher-end-scariest-presentation-ever
We don’t have a lot of time to run after those guys at the top. I might not even have enough time to build my chicken coop!
Eventually, if we are forced to rebuild from the ground up, I expect we will be wiser and pissed off and will be happy to bring a few people to a (more effective) court of law. Then again, there might be so much water under the bridge at that point that we’ll have completely lost track. We’ll just want to get on with building something new.
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 20 hours, 22 minutes ago by skipbreakfast. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 20 hours, 9 minutes ago #3301

skipbreakfast wrote:

What we are doing ain’t working! Totally agree! Oh boy, and is it ever NOT working.
Here’s an unsettling perspective: “The End Game: 2012 & 2013”
www.zerohedge.com/news/big-reset-2012-and-2013-will-usher-end-scariest-presentation-ever

MAJOR DEBATE between me and Golden Oxen currently IN PROGRESS on this set of Graphs and Info at the moment in the Big Slide v2.0 thread over on the Diner.  EXTREMELY ENTERTAINING! 
RE

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 10 hours, 40 minutes ago #3303

  • ashvin
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 271
  • Karma: 12

[quote=”Reverse Engineer” post=3299]ashvin wrote:

Sure it is “premeditated”.  Any Legal System is, and I am advocating for a Legal System which holds these folks ACCOUNTABLE, ferrets them out and brings them before the Court of the Inquisition.  Sorry, english Common Law is not WORKING.  If something doesn’t work, you try something DIFFERENT.  As Einstein said, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”.

You can call it whatever you want, but it is not a legal system. Legal systems are designed exactly to prevent OMMP. You can make a very good argument that legal systems are not adequate purveyors of justice in times like these, but you can’t pretend that OMMP is some kind of legal framework for carrying out justice. It not only goes against every principle of common law, but every right found in our Constitution. Isn’t it ironic that we rail against the NDAA for subverting due process, but we are so eager to throw it away ourselves when it comes to taking out the “bad guys”?

Its merely a matter of scale, not principle…
Not only did they stick the Gun to the Population in the PAST, they currently KEEP the gun pointed at everybody ELSE. I SEE a RAPE in progress here, and I am gonna STOP it NOW by Gunning Down the who knows how many people complicit in this operation who AL are taking money out of the Cash Register at the moment. No more Mr. Nice Guy. This is a WAR here, and people are DYING as we speak. I am EVEN willing to alow these folks to OWN UP to their Sins and Repent and allow them to LIVE, an opportunity they did NOT give their Victims. So who is more Righteous here, eh?

First, the issues of scale and complexity automatically make it a difference in principles between the individual rape victim in the liqour store and the entire world that may be exposed to the consequences of Fukushima. How are you determining who is complicit in that incident? Anyone that has taken “money out of the Cash Register”?? That’s a bit vague, to say the least. What about the families of the people you determine to be complicit… how do they factor in? I think even you would admit that what you are proposing is RECKLESS. It is a desperate measure for desperate times, right?
That motivation is not much different from theirs. You are just targeting different people for different end goals, but you are being consumed by many of the same emotions that drive them – fear, anxiety, desperation, frustration, anger, rage. And once we start down that road, who among us will have the discipline to stop?? Maybe you will, but many of your followers/compatriots won’t.
As for sin and penitence, is it not you who is committing the ultimate sin – putting yourself in the role of God? According to the Bible, God is the only one who can know with absolute certainty who is Evil, and who has been saved through penitence and a change of hearts. And, He WILL cast his wrath on the former when the time comes. It is not man’s role to dispense with that kind of Divine Justice.
You say, “so who is more righteous here, eh?”
Why are you suddenly comparing your actions to theirs, as if the latter is measuring stick that we should all strive to beat by an inch? The fact that they are Evil does not give us a free pass as long as we manage to be a little less evil (or more righteous) than they are. We should strive to be completely righteous and nothing less. The OMMP, IMO, is not a great way to start.

I don’t know anything for sure other than the fact what we are doing AIN’T Working.  I advocate a change of tactics.  May work, may not.  if somebody comes up with a better plan, I am all ears, but IMHO here a few Perp Walks and Passive Resistance or “Active Withdrawal” is NOT a better plan with any greater chance of success, in fact I rate it lower in its possibilities for success.
Bring in the Orkin Man.

So the argument is – if what we’re doing doesn’t seem to be “working”, then we should do whatever else comes to mind, no matter what the consequences are? Sorry, I don’t buy that for a second. And aren’t you the one who has said many times that the Owners are in the process of destroying their own wealth/control base, by plundering energy resources and crippling the planet’s environment/ecosystems? That’s something I happen to believe as well, and perhaps that is the best tactic we can hope for at this point. The only thing we have near full control over now is our own free will and actions, and that is not something we should wield lightly or recklessly.

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 10 hours, 36 minutes ago by ashvin. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 4 hours, 34 minutes ago #3312

  • ashvin
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 271
  • Karma: 12
Sorry RE,
When I was trying to reply to your last comment, I accidentally clicked “edit” instead of “reply”. Then I went ahead and wrote my comment and hit Submit. If you still have the comment you can post it again, but I don’t think there is any way for me to restore it. Now I just went ahead and deleted it, and re-posted my reply under my name. I think a good portion of your original comment is captured in the quotation blocks, though.
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 4 hours, 14 minutes ago by ashvin. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 4 hours, 23 minutes ago #3313

I did not save the original comment.  You might look in your software to see if it stores prior editions.  If not, it is lost.  You should delete the comment listed under my name and paste it into a post with your name, with a profuse apology at the top in bold italics with a Dunce Cap image for fucking up so badly. LOL.
RE
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 4 hours, 16 minutes ago #3314

  • ashvin
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 271
  • Karma: 12

RE wrote:

No they aren’t.  Legal systems prevent nothing, they merely define punishment for disobediance to the law.

They also define what the “law” is, how to determine who has disobeyed the law, what the punishment should be and how and by whom that punishment should be carried out. It is also almost always a function of centralized institutions of governance recognized by the people under their jurisdiction..
The point here is that there is no reason for us to call OMMP a “legal system”, as if that somehow mitigates the level of premeditated violence carried out in its name.

You should recall from prior conversations regarding the Constitution that it is my general conclusion that it was written by a bunch of Aristocrats to justify their Private property rights and doesn’t do much for the average J6P.

And you should recall that I agree with that conclusion. I was talking specifically about the Bill of Rights, though, which limits the arbitrary use of state-sanctioned force against the people. If OMMP is designed to circumvent the Bill of Rights, then it contains an implicit justification for its enemies to do the same.

Disagreed, scale does not make a difference in principle, only in the logistics for ferreting out the truth.  More complex, certainly, but in principle still the same.
Far as families go, they are often complicit.  For example, its likely Bernie Madoff’s Wife and Son were complicit.  Also of course Bush1 and Bush2 both complicit.  Its up to the Court of the Inquisition to determine how deep the rot of corruption is in a given family.

Pray tell, how will the Court of the Inquisition (i.e. you and your cronies) do that? Is there an age limit? What about the 6 year old kid who seems to be a corrupted little brat? The Husband/Wife who materially supported the corruption without knowing, or that sat by and didn’t do anything to stop their spouse? Or perhaps they did do something, but they just didn’t do “enough”? How can we be sure that your torturous methods do not lead to false confessions, just like the Inquisition’s?

No, my main driver is to clean up the kitchen.  You stop when the Kitchen is clean.  Granted this may take a while and the decision is subjective in the end, but that is true for just abotu all legal decisions.

Oh, another thing about legal systems – they should be designed to limit the use of subjectivity as much as possible. So if you insist on calling OMMP a legal system with “legal decisions”, then it is a really shitty one.
And you are not cleaning a Kitchen, you are torturing and murdering people. Since you are human, you are not doing that without being consumed by emotions. You cannot dismiss that fact by analogizing it to cleaning a kitchen.
Ashvin wrote:

As for sin and penitence, is it not you who is committing the ultimate sin – putting yourself in the role of God? According to the Bible, God is the only one who can know with absolute certainty who is Evil, and who has been saved through penitence and a change of hearts. And, He WILL cast his wrath on the former when the time comes. It is not man’s role to dispense with that kind of Divine Justice.

RE wrote:

You can assume that if such a plan is undertaken that you are operating under God’s direction and are so the tool of God in it’s implementation, you are not God him/hers/itself.  Far as whether it is Man’s Role to dispense Divine Justice, that is a matter for God to decide.  If God wants to use a man to dispense Divine Justice, it is his/her/its perogative to do so.

Uh, no, we can’t assume anything. Unless God speaks to us directly and guides us towards those actions, then we cannot assume we have God’s blessing simply because we have incorporated our human understandings of sin and penitence. If anything, since we never predicated the value of OMMP on its ability to obtain God’s approval, we can assume that we DON’T have it for the sake of this argument.

We don’t know what the consequences will be here for taking these actions, but the likely consequences for not taking them are dire enough to warrant taking the risk.  We know if we don’t gain control over this, we get more Fuk-U-shimas and more Macondos.   I suggest that the consequences could be good ones.  A clean kitchen empty of cockroaches is to the benefit of all except the cockroaches.

We do know some of the consequences – innocent lives will be sacrificed and at least some of the people carrying out the Inquisition will start operating with less than pure motives, or perhaps even at cross-purposes. This is what ALWAYS happens, without fail. So let’s not pretend that we don’t know whether some of those things will happen. What we truly don’t know is what the chances for success are, i.e. the chances of preventing future Fukushimas or Deepwater Horizons, but my educated guesstimate is that they will be slim to razor thin.

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 4 hours, 13 minutes ago by ashvin. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 2 hours, 45 minutes ago #3316

They also define what the “law” is, how to determine who has disobeyed the law, what the punishment should be and how and by whom that punishment should be carried out. It is also almost always a function of centralized institutions of governance recognized by the people under their jurisdiction..
The point here is that there is no reason for us to call OMMP a “legal system”, as if that somehow mitigates the level of premeditated violence carried out in its name.

Did I say anywhere that the Inquisition should not make Legal Definitions here for what constitutes Crimes Against Humanity and what the appropriate Punsihments should be?  I am all for developing a comprehensive Code to make these Definitions before beginning the Auto da Fe.
We can start on the Code of RE Hammurabi right here with 5 starter Principles:
1- If you were in a position of Authority with knowledge of the dangers of what you or the company you worked for were doing and did not Blow the Whistle on them, you are GUILTY 2- Corporate Shields are declared retroactively Invalid. 3-If you actively engaged in Economic Pursuits with the goal of Enriching yourself at the Expense of Others, you are GUILTY. 4-If you loaned money to others at Usurious interest rates defined as say anything above 1%/mo, you are GUILTY 5-If you Invested in Corporations which you had Knowledge were engaged in activities destroying Mother Earth and endangering the lives of others, you are GUILTY

And you should recall that I agree with that conclusion. I was talking specifically about the Bill of Rights, though, which limits the arbitrary use of state-sanctioned force against the people. If OMMP is designed to circumvent the Bill of Rights, then it contains an implicit justification for its enemies to do the same.

I never said this would stop Violence from the Other Side of the line.  They will commit Violent acts regardless of the Law anyhow, so this just provides for a Level Playing Field.  Mano-a-Mano, and the Meek got the Numbers Advantage here.  Once the Force Multiplier of Oil is out of the Game, the Good Guys WIN.  Remember the Wisdom of Uncle Joe Stalin, “You Can’t Make an Omelette without Breaking a Few Eggs.”

Pray tell, how will the Court of the Inquisition (i.e. you and your cronies) do that? Is there an age limit? What about the 6 year old kid who seems to be a corrupted little brat? The Husband/Wife who materially supported the corruption without knowing, or that sat by and didn’t do anything to stop their spouse? Or perhaps they did do something, but they just didn’t do “enough”? How can we be sure that your torturous methods do not lead to false confessions, just like the Inquisition’s?

I have great confidence in the Integrity of my Cronies, despite some Out of the Box ideas WRT Aliens, Jews, multi-Dimensional Space, and the absolute Value of Gold floating around amongst them.  My own Personal Integrity is well documented by my willingness to stick to my Guns despite getting booted off half the Collapse Blogs on the Internet.   Also, given the fact that I am about the ONLY Crony in the Crowd who supports this idea (with the exception of New Crony Karpatok, aka Xena, Warrior Princess) , there are Checks & Balances in the New Politburo on the Diner. LOL.
Far as Kids are concerned, they probably mostly can be Saved here by pulling them out of the Environment and doing Behavioral Modification, the Greed pathways are not so well set into their Neural Connections yet.  Other older Family Members can be Individually Judged for the Level of their Complicity.
Far as Torture is concerned, that is only used once the Level of Guilt  of the Individual has already been establishedby the Court of the Inquisition, and it already should be a pretty High Level of Guilt to warrant Torture.  For instance, Jamie Dimon or Lloyd Blankfein almost certainly get the full 9 yards on the Torture end prior to being dispatched to the Great Beyond, unless of course they fully Repent, give up all their Wealth, agree to spending the rest of their lives scrubbing Cesspools in Penitence and Name some more Names.  They ALL know other Guilty parties, so if they don’t Name Names its off to the Rack until they do.  If on the VERY slim chance Jamie Dimon does NOT know any other Guilty Parties to name, this is unfortunate for Jamie but as I said before, you can’t make and Omelette without breaking a few eggs

Oh, another thing about legal systems – they should be designed to limit the use of subjectivity as much as possible. So if you insist on calling OMMP a legal system with “legal decisions”, then it is a really shitty one.
And you are not cleaning a Kitchen, you are torturing and murdering people. Since you are human, you are not doing that without being consumed by emotions. You cannot dismiss that fact by analogizing it to cleaning a kitchen.

I already stipulated that you do not go into the Auto da Fe at all without a clear set of criteria as to what constitutes Guilt and what the appropriate Punishment for that Guilt is.  So it is not “Murder”, it is Capital Punishment if so deemed appropriate by the Court of the Inquisition.  The Torture is just Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth stuff.  I mean really, Starving People or people being Irradiated without their consent or people being Injected with nasty Vaccines loaded with Mercury are being Tortured all over the place here, Trit here documents that stuff all the time.  Only the most complicit in this Biz get the Torture Treatment, and you gotta be pretty high up the ladder for it.  You know, CEOs of BP, TEPCO, CEO of Goldman Sacks the Taxpayer, Chairman of Da Fed, POTUS, CIA Director, President of the EU, IMF and World Bank Directors, everybody who attended the Basel Conference in the last Decade, everybody above the level of Janitor who works for the BIS, the Trilateral Commission Members etc.  The Inquisition isn’t going to go after the Small Fry here with the Hammer, you start with the OBVIOUSLY and CLEARLY GUILTY at the visible Top of Pyramid, and you use them to lever your way into the the folks Behind the Curtain.  There are AT LEAST 10,000 of these SCUMBAGS to start with and that will take plenty of time to work through the Docket.

As for sin and penitence, is it not you who is committing the ultimate sin – putting yourself in the role of God? According to the Bible, God is the only one who can know with absolute certainty who is Evil, and who has been saved through penitence and a change of hearts. And, He WILL cast his wrath on the former when the time comes. It is not man’s role to dispense with that kind of Divine Justice.
RE wrote:

You can assume that if such a plan is undertaken that you are operating under God’s direction and are so the tool of God in it’s implementation, you are not God him/hers/itself. Far as whether it is Man’s Role to dispense Divine Justice, that is a matter for God to decide. If God wants to use a man to dispense Divine Justice, it is his/her/its perogative to do so

.
Uh, no, we can’t assume anything. Unless God speaks to us directly and guides us towards those actions, then we cannot assume we have God’s blessing simply because we have incorporated our human understandings of sin and penitence. If anything, since we never predicated the value of OMMP on its ability to obtain God’s approval, we can assume that we DON’T have it for the sake of this argument.

God works in Mysterious Ways, and exactly How He Speaks to us can’t be determined here a priori.  Perhaps God is speaking in such a way as to encourage an Inqusition here?  If we don’t undertake it, we would be Rejecting God.
In any event, in the ABSENCE of an Inquisition, stopping the progressive RAPE of Mother Earth and the endless TORTURE of the vast majority of the Population has not thusfar been possible through other more conventional means, so I suggest a change of direction here to hopefully align up better with God’s Will.

We do know some of the consequences – innocent lives will be sacrificed and at least some of the people carrying out the Inquisition will start operating with less than pure motives, or perhaps even at cross-purposes. This is what ALWAYS happens, without fail. So let’s not pretend that we don’t know whether some of those things will happen. What we truly don’t know is what the chances for success are, i.e. the chances of preventing future Fukushimas or Deepwater Horizons, but my educated guesstimate is that they will be slim to razor thin.

I never denied Innocent Lives will be lost here, in fact I explicitly said numerous times that “You cannot make an Omelette without Breaking a few Eggs”.  What you have to make a Judgement on is in WHICH scenario will MORE Innocent Lives be Lost, and in which scenario MORE of the Guilty will be Brought to Justice?
Best Evidence right now is that if we do NOT undertake the Inqusition, EVERYBODY WILL DIE, as in Homo Sapiens suffers an Extinction Level Event and we go the way of the Dinosaur.  If we have to break some Eggs to stop that, so be it.  We all KNOW here that MANY Innocents are losing their lives RIGHT NOW, AS WE SPEAK.  No more Mr. Nice Guy while this is an ongoing WAR against J6P.
Bring on the Orkin Man.
RE

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 2 hours, 43 minutes ago by Reverse Engineer. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 hour, 41 minutes ago #3317

  • ashvin
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 271
  • Karma: 12

Reverse Engineer wrote:

Did I say anywhere that the Inquisition should not make Legal Definitions here for what constitutes Crimes Against Humanity and what the appropriate Punsihments should be?  I am all for developing a comprehensive Code to make these Definitions before beginning the Auto da Fe.
We can start on the Code of RE Hammurabi right here with 5 starter Principles:
1- If you were in a position of Authority with knowledge of the dangers of what you or the company you worked for were doing and did not Blow the Whistle on them, you are GUILTY 2- Corporate Shields are declared retroactively Invalid. 3-If you actively engaged in Economic Pursuits with the goal of Enriching yourself at the Expense of Others, you are GUILTY. 4-If you loaned money to others at Usurious interest rates defined as say anything above 1%/mo, you are GUILTY 5-If you Invested in Corporations which you had Knowledge were engaged in activities destroying Mother Earth and endangering the lives of others, you are GUILTY

Well damn… I may be guilty of #3 myself, seeing as how I regularly play poker.
Now you may give me a pass, because you are smart enough to understand that the people who give me their money are not really under any sort of coercion, do so of their own free will, start with a level playing field and I am not doing it to get RICH but rather to pay bills, but your over-zealous compatriots in newly-formed positions of authority within the Inquisition may not interpret my actions the same way. Sorry if I don’t trust anyone with that kind of power to use it wisely…

I never said this would stop Violence from the Other Side of the line.  They will commit Violent acts regardless of the Law anyhow, so this just provides for a Level Playing Field.  Mano-a-Mano, and the Meek got the Numbers Advantage here.  Once the Force Multiplier of Oil is out of the Game, the Good Guys WIN.  Remember the Wisdom of Uncle Joe Stalin, “You Can’t Make an Omelette without Breaking a Few Eggs.”

I think you are over-estimating the number of the “Meek” here. Hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people could technically be guilty of the OMMP criminal code. All kinds of people who work for corporations could be guilty of #1, as long as they have authority over at least one other person at the company. #3 speaks for itself – of course no one will admit they were doing it to get rich, but it will be their word against the newly-appointed Righteous. And #5 could include anyone who has ever spent a penny on the products of those destructive corporations – why limit it to people who actually bought shares? I’m sure a good portion of the people reading TAE, DD and most other similar sites are guilty of #4 and #5 as well. When it’s all said and done here, OMMP may end up doing the Illuminati’s job for it.

Far as Kids are concerned, they probably mostly can be Saved here by pulling them out of the Environment and doing Behavioral Modification, the Greed pathways are not so well set into their Neural Connections yet.  Other older Family Members can be Individually Judged for the Level of their Complicity.

I’m still waiting to hear an age cutoff… and what about the mentally ill? Do we have an IQ cutoff line too, do we follow the definitions of DSMIV, what?

I already stipulated that you do not go into the Auto da Fe at all without a clear set of criteria as to what constitutes Guilt and what the appropriate Punishment for that Guilt is. So it is not “Murder”, it is Capital Punishment if so deemed appropriate by the Court of the Inquisition.

And my argument is that a “clear set of criteria” for what you propose to do is an oxymoron, a paradox, impossible.

The Inquisition isn’t going to go after the Small Fry here with the Hammer, you start with the OBVIOUSLY and CLEARLY GUILTY at the visible Top of Pyramid, and you use them to lever your way into the the folks Behind the Curtain.  There are AT LEAST 10,000 of these SCUMBAGS to start with and that will take plenty of time to work through the Docket.

Those people aren’t stupid, though, They didn’t get to those positions without knowing how to game the all of the laws, rules, and plans that were established to work against them. I suspect that’s exactly what they will do with the OMMP, too. Set up a bunch of patsies to take the fall. By the time you make it to 10 of the real bad guys, the rest will be in hiding and actively leading you to all the wrong places and people. Actually, I would be suspect of OMMP as soon as I heard about it, because it may have already been co-opted by them before it got off the ground.
Fantasies about organizing it all quickly and implementing it simultaneously around the globe with an element of surprise are just that… fantasies.

God works in Mysterious Ways, and exactly How He Speaks to us can’t be determined here a priori.  Perhaps God is speaking in such a way as to encourage an Inqusition here?  If we don’t undertake it, we would be Rejecting God.
In any event, in the ABSENCE of an Inquisition, stopping the progressive RAPE of Mother Earth and the endless TORTURE of the vast majority of the Population has not thusfar been possible through other more conventional means, so I suggest a change of direction here to hopefully align up better with God’s Will.

Does He really work in mysterious ways? I think that’s just a catch phrase people like to use. By and large, if He exists, I imagine that He works in very straightforward ways. The Bible is replete with examples of God directly intervening in Earthly affairs and telling people exactly what He wanted them to do and when he wanted them to do it.
Perhaps the OMMP is not God’s will, perhaps it’s the opposite of His will. Maybe he is allowing this rape and suffering to continue to test the faith of humanity in Him and his promises for the future and see if they will obey the teachings of Jesus even when it seems they would be better off abandoning those teachings and taking matters into their own hands. Isn’t that a possibility to consider, seeing as how it is a major theme of the Bible?

I never denied Innocent Lives will be lost here, in fact I explicitly said numerous times that “You cannot make an Omelette without Breaking a few Eggs”.  What you have to make a Judgement on is in WHICH scenario will MORE Innocent Lives be Lost, and in which scenario MORE of the Guilty will be Brought to Justice?
Best Evidence right now is that if we do NOT undertake the Inqusition, EVERYBODY WILL DIE, as in Homo Sapiens suffers an Extinction Level Event and we go the way of the Dinosaur.  If we have to break some Eggs to stop that, so be it.  We all KNOW here that MANY Innocents are losing their lives RIGHT NOW, AS WE SPEAK.  No more Mr. Nice Guy while this is an ongoing WAR against J6P.

Well, for all of the reasons discussed, I disagree. I think the chances are very high that more innocent lives will be lost with the OMMP than without it, and, on top of that, by pursuing it we may condemn ourselves to physical and/or psychological damnation, either here on Earth for the rest of our lives or in the afterlife for all of eternity.

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 1 hour, 36 minutes ago by ashvin. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 hour, 15 minutes ago #3318

RE! I just know you’re intelligent enough–based on much of your writing–to see that it’s impossible to line up all those guilty of “knowingly enriching myself at the expense of others”. Every profit is at someone’s expense. That is inherent in the definition: one cannot have profit without another’s expense. If I sell someone a shirt I know he doesn’t need, maybe catching him at a weak moment, I’d be guilty according to this edict! That is insane. Unworkable. Dangerous. Scary. Nonsenical. And certainly not the well- considered doomsday plan I have come to expect from you. Your contributions are too valuable to waste on such distractions.
Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 1 hour, 10 minutes ago by skipbreakfast. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 51 minutes ago #3319

ashvin wrote:

Well damn… I may be guilty of #3 myself, seeing as how I regularly play poker.

As I made CLEAR Ashvin, the Inqusition is NOT concerned with Small Fry who play Poker for a Living.  We are going after the BIG BOYS.  Waste of time, energy and the Legal Resources of the Inquisitors to go after Small Fry like you.  We will be busy with much BIGGER Fish for a good while here.  Might be a good idea though to start weaning yourself off this dependency on the Weakness and Stupidity of others to make your living though.

I think you are over-estimating the number of the “Meek” here. Hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people could technically be guilty of the OMMP criminal code. All kinds of people who work for corporations could be guilty of #1, as long as they have authority over at least one other person at the company. #3 speaks for itself – of course no one will admit they were doing it to get rich, but it will be their word against the newly-appointed Righteous. And #5 could include anyone who has ever spent a penny on the products of those destructive corporations – why limit it to people who actually bought shares? I’m sure a good portion of the people reading TAE, DD and most other similar sites are guilty of #4 and #5 as well. When it’s all said and done here, OMMP may end up doing the Illuminati’s job for it.

No, I am NOT overestimating the number of Meek, since I am droping a cutoff point here on initial Prosecutions and keeping it basically to the Top Visible end of the Pyramid.
Low Level Criminals are not Targeted here.  The Inquisitors are not after the Drug Users or even the Street Dealers.  We are after the King Pins.  if you are a Dealer, you may be pulled in by the Inquisition and asked to Name some Names.  Your Punishment and Penitence will probably be light if you cooperate with the Inqusition, just a few years scrubbing Cesspools probably.  Only minor Torture, like being forced to listen to Rap Music 24/7 for a few days, Read Aloud the Text from People Magazine, spend a few days in a Rehab Program with Lindsay Lohan or worst of all be forced into a Shotgun Marriage with Kim Kardashian. LOL.

I’m still waiting to hear an age cutoff… and what about the mentally ill? Do we have an IQ cutoff line too, do we follow the definitions of DSMIV, what?

You can’t make an arbitrary cutoff here, but it is not necessary to do so since Kids do not control large corporations like BP or TEPCO, and neither do Morons either.
If said kids happen to be Progeny of Vicious Criminals convicted of Crimes Against Humanity, they will be Orphaned and sent to Re-education Camps.  Hoepfully they are not too far gone already.  Long as they graduate their re-education and don’t pull the same nasty stunts their parents did, they’ll be fine.

And my argument is that a “clear set of criteria” for what you propose to do is an oxymoron, a paradox, impossible.

That could be said of ANY Legal System Ashvin.  None of them are perfect without Loopholes.  You do the best you can, eh?

Those people aren’t stupid, though, They didn’t get to those positions without knowing how to game the all of the laws, rules, and plans that were established to work against them. I suspect that’s exactly what they will do with the OMMP, too. Set up a bunch of patsies to take the fall. By the time you make it to 10 of the real bad guys, the rest will be in hiding and actively leading you to all the wrong places and people. Actually, I would be suspect of OMMP as soon as I heard about it, because it may have already been co-opted by them before it got off the ground.

I never said they WERE Stupid Ashvin, which is why it is necessary to OUTSMART them!  I’m Volunteering here in the effort I’m Certified Smart!  I’d be happy to have you back me up also on this end as well.  There are plenty of Meek out there with enough additional Smarts to make this battle on the Smarts level along with plenty to do the Fisticuffs necessary as well here.  Once the force multiplier of Oil gets knocked down, should be a rout IMHO.

Fantasies about organizing it all quickly and implementing it simultaneously around the globe with an element of surprise are just that… fantasies.

Negative thinking IMHO. It probably cannot be done quick enough to Save the vast majority of the population, but it maybe possible to do it quickly enough to avoid an ELE.  Gotta make the EFFORT anyhow.

Does He really work in mysterious ways? I think that’s just a catch phrase people like to use. By and large, if He exists, I imagine that He works in very straightforward ways. The Bible is replete with examples of God directly intervening in Earthly affairs and telling people exactly what He wanted them to do and when he wanted them to do it.

Biblical Stories are IMHO mainly parables which may or may not represent God’s will in all respects.  For instance, all that stuff about how after 3 months a Slave Girl should willingly submit to her New master blah blah.  Or Render Unto Caesar yadda yadda. Or Turn the Other Cheek.   Representative of the time period, but not necessarily God’s Will in perpetutity.  You gotta be adaptible here to changing circumstances and be able to write NEW parables which further define God’s Will at any given point in history.

Perhaps the OMMP is not God’s will, perhaps it’s the opposite of His will. Maybe he is allowing this rape and suffering to continue to test the faith of humanity in Him and his promises for the future and see if they will obey the teachings of Jesus even when it seems they would be better off abandoning those teachings and taking matters into their own hands. Isn’t that a possibility to consider, seeing as how it is a major theme of the Bible?

Perhaps, but weighing the odds here, seems unlikely to me.

Well, for all of the reasons discussed, I disagree. I think the chances are very high that more innocent lives will be lost with the OMMP than without it, and, on top of that, by pursuing it we may condemn ourselves to physical and/or psychological damnation, either here on Earth for the rest of our lives or in the afterlife for all of eternity.

OBVIOUSLY we disagree on this Ashvin, otherwise we would not be going to such great lengths to justify our opposing viewpoints on the topic.  Up to the Reader to decide who made the better case here.
My conclusion is despite the risks involved and the potential for great suffering to emerge as Blowback here from the Inqusition, it is the Better Alternative to acquiesing to the continued destruction of Mother Earth and the continued Torture and Death of Millions and probably soon to be BILLIONS of people.  Confronted with THAT, IMHO you take the risk.
Bring on the Orkin Man.
RE

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 46 minutes ago by Reverse Engineer. Report to moderator

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 0 minutes ago #3320

skipbreakfast wrote:

RE! I just know you’re intelligent enough–based on much of your writing–to see that it’s impossible to line up all those guilty of “knowingly enriching myself at the expense of others”. Every profit is at someone’s expense. That is inherent in the definition: one cannot have profit without another’s expense. If I sell someone a shirt I know he doesn’t need, maybe catching him at a weak moment, I’d be guilty according to this edict! That is insane. Unworkable. Dangerous. Scary. Nonsenical. And certainly not the well- considered doomsday plan I have come to expect from you. Your contributions are too valuable to waste on such distractions.

SB,  I clearly state that the Inquisition CANNOT hit on every last little Pipsqueak out there who runs a Small Biz to extract some profit from the Earth or the Labor of Others.
At small Power Levels, this process while generally speaking isn’t very good (potlatch is better), it is more or less a level playing field until you get great accumulations of wealth and power.  Once that happens, the whole system breaks down.
The Inquisition as I try to lay it out focuses down on the very BIGGEST Power Structures and the very LARGEST accumulations of the Wealth of Mother Earth, which in fact is God’s Gift to ALL Mankind, not the Koch Brothers or George Soros or Bill Gates.
The Top of the Food Chain PREDATORS simply have become TOO POWERFUL, and the Ecosystem is breaking down as a result.  I am trying to lay out a means by which the Little Fish can take the Battle to the Sharks and CONSUME them by virtue of the Power of Numbers and the willingness to be JUST as Vicious here in the Consumption paradigm, except in this version 1000 little Fishies all gang up on One Big Tuna and EAT IT ALIVE.
Little Fishies of course cannot do that, they don’t have the BRAINS for it and they are not adapted to do so.  Homo Sapiens though?  Another Ball Game altogether.  We CAN Gang Up, we CAN operate as Herd Animals as well as Pack Wolves.  We CAN STAMPEDE, we CAN TRAMPLE the Wolves. ONLY though if we act in CONCERT and ONLY if we will KILL the Predators who threaten the SURVIVAL of the Herd.
This is NATURE in ACTION SB, and if you want to be Sheep consumed by the Wolves, that is your choice, but not mine.  I am going to follow the Wildebeasts herein this parable, and I will do my best to get the rest of the Herd to STAMPEDE with me and Trample ALL the Predators in our Path.  They simply will not know what HIT them when the STAMPEDE begins here.
Not in this Game to LOSE, in it to WIN.  What are the High Cards I hold here?  The POWER OF NUMBERS.  Fratured though, separate the herd and hit on the Weak, the Predators win. Only when the Herd comes together as a WHOLE can the Weak be Protected and Defended from the Predators.  The Biggest, the Smartest, the STRONGEST out on the Periphery, ready to do BATTLE with the Wolves, to STAMP and KICK and GORE them as necessary to defend the Weak.  That is Nature, that is how the Herd WINS.
RE

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

 

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 4 hours, 35 minutes ago #3333

  • ashvin
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: 12
[quote=”Reverse Engineer” post=3319]ashvin wrote:

As I made CLEAR Ashvin, the Inqusition is NOT concerned with Small Fry who play Poker for a Living.  We are going after the BIG BOYS.  Waste of time, energy and the Legal Resources of the Inquisitors to go after Small Fry like you.  We will be busy with much BIGGER Fish for a good while here.  Might be a good idea though to start weaning yourself off this dependency on the Weakness and Stupidity of others to make your living though.

No, what you made clear is that NO ONE can escape the wrath of the Inquisition when it really gets going. Yes, you will obviously want to target the king pins at first, but you will find that the rot of corruption extends much deeper in this system. There is no system without the active and passive complicity of billions, and if you think the king pins won’t amass an army of the complicit on their side when all of these Rightheous Crusades go down, then you are sorely mistaken.

No, I am NOT overestimating the number of Meek, since I am droping a cutoff point here on initial Prosecutions and keeping it basically to the Top Visible end of the Pyramid.
Low Level Criminals are not Targeted here.  The Inquisitors are not after the Drug Users or even the Street Dealers.  We are after the King Pins.  if you are a Dealer, you may be pulled in by the Inquisition and asked to Name some Names.  Your Punishment and Penitence will probably be light if you cooperate with the Inqusition, just a few years scrubbing Cesspools probably.

You can’t make an arbitrary cutoff here, but it is not necessary to do so since Kids do not control large corporations like BP or TEPCO, and neither do Morons either.
If said kids happen to be Progeny of Vicious Criminals convicted of Crimes Against Humanity, they will be Orphaned and sent to Re-education Camps.  Hoepfully they are not too far gone already.  Long as they graduate their re-education and don’t pull the same nasty stunts their parents did, they’ll be fine.

You are wafting all over the place here and you know it. In one place you have cut off points, and in others you believe they are arbitrary and cannot be used. It is clear that you are making this shit up as you go along – the ridiculously vague criminal code, the “initial prosecutions”, the top of the pyramid, the low-level torture and scrubbing of cesspools, the re-education camps, etc., etc. Trust me, I know it’s fun to play Devil’s Advocate – that’s a part of what I’m doing in this argument too (although you may be doing it a bit more literally ).
But the other part is out of genuine concern about the ideas people will get in their heads when they are seduced by fantasies such as yours. You know just as well as I do that your hyper-idealistic plan will not come to pass, ever…  UNLESS, it is undertaken by an ignorant mob following a charismatic leader that has convinced them it is in their interests to kill off large swaths of people who represent the Old Order. Then you will get your OMMP, but who knows, you may end up being one of the roaches that gets exterminated.
Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss.

That could be said of ANY Legal System Ashvin.  None of them are perfect without Loopholes.  You do the best you can, eh?

Yes, that could be said of any legal system operating at the complex scale of global human civilization. Our aim should not be to replicate those flawed systems or come up with new ones at the same scale, but to completely down-size the scale of operation. Your ever-evolving OMMP is a worldwide system of subjective “laws” that seeks to enact a “righteous” genocide in the name of protecting the helpless masses, and usher in a new era of peace and stability.

I never said they WERE Stupid Ashvin, which is why it is necessary to OUTSMART them!  I’m Volunteering here in the effort I’m Certified Smart!  I’d be happy to have you back me up also on this end as well.  There are plenty of Meek out there with enough additional Smarts to make this battle on the Smarts level along with plenty to do the Fisticuffs necessary as well here.  Once the force multiplier of Oil gets knocked down, should be a rout IMHO.

Sometimes it’s smarter to recognize that the ends don’t justify the means, and that success can be had in more ways than one. To sacrifice one’s vengeful bloodlust for the good of the human soul, even when the former is convincingly dressed up as a humanitarian act. Your OMMP will play right into their hands of controlled depopulation. Remember, they NEED a justification for top-down, centralized enslavement and genocide of the masses, and proposals along the lines of OMMP will give it to them. A rout, indeed.

Negative thinking IMHO. It probably cannot be done quick enough to Save the vast majority of the population, but it maybe possible to do it quickly enough to avoid an ELE.  Gotta make the EFFORT anyhow.

Realistic thinking. We don’t haveto make the effort – that is the point of free will and conscious decisions. The OMMP already sounds like a situation in which people will be told “if you don’t support the effort, you will be responsible for an ELE that is certain to occur”. A false dichotomy along the lines of “bail out the banks or watch the world economy be vaporized”, except even more extreme.

Biblical Stories are IMHO mainly parables which may or may not represent God’s will in all respects.  For instance, all that stuff about how after 3 months a Slave Girl should willingly submit to her New master blah blah.  Or Render Unto Caesar yadda yadda. Or Turn the Other Cheek.   Representative of the time period, but not necessarily God’s Will in perpetutity.  You gotta be adaptible here to changing circumstances and be able to write NEW parables which further define God’s Will at any given point in history.

Another BS tactic used by people to subvert Biblical law and the teachings of Jesus – just say that it is all filled with symbolic parables and open to endless interpretation. It is no coincidence that the Roman Catholic Church kept the Bible from the people when it officially adopted Christianity – it wanted man-made religious/political/economic traditions that were ultimately geared towards retribution and war to overrule the very obvious and very clear teachings of love, forgiveness and peace found in the Books themselves. The truths laid out by Jesus as God’s human incarnation are meant to be eternal, and you cannot use Him to justify goals that are in opposition to those truths by erroneously claiming they are “adaptable” to the times.

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 4 hours, 28 minutes ago by ashvin. Report to moderator

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 3 hours, 20 minutes ago #3335

ashvin wrote:

No, what you made clear is that NO ONE can escape the wrath of the Inquisition when it really gets going. Yes, you will obviously want to target the king pins at first, but you will find that the rot of corruption extends much deeper in this system. There is no system without the active and passive complicity of billions, and if you think the king pins won’t amass an army of the complicit on their side when all of these Rightheous Crusades go down, then you are sorely mistaken.

No, the thesis that it will continue in perpetuity is yours, not mine.  The corruption and rot go pretty deep I will grant you, but eventually you will work your way down to the point the kitchen is clean enough to cook in again.
I also am quite SURE the Army of Evil will amass itself, which is why the Army of Good better start getting ready here to go Mano-a-Mano with the AoE in a No Rules, Take No Prisoners Final Battle for ALL the Marbles.

You are wafting all over the place here and you know it. In one place you have cut off points, and in others you believe they are arbitrary and cannot be used. It is clear that you are making this shit up as you go along – the ridiculously vague criminal code, the “initial prosecutions”, the top of the pyramid, the low-level torture and scrubbing of cesspools, the re-education camps, etc., etc. Trust me, I know it’s fun to play Devil’s Advocate – that’s a part of what I’m doing in this argument too (although you may be doing it a bit more literally ).

Is there a Rule here against Wafting and Making Shit Up as you go along?  I was not aware of any such rule here.
In any event, the Cutoffs being made here are Monetary ones, not Age or Intelligence ones.  Not going after Kids or Retards.  Going after PIGMEN.

But the other part is out of genuine concern about the ideas people will get in their heads when they are seduced by fantasies such as yours. You know just as well as I do that your hyper-idealistic plan will not come to pass, ever…  UNLESS, it is undertaken by an ignorant mob following a charismatic leader that has convinced them it is in their interests to kill off large swaths of people who represent the Old Order. Then you will get your OMMP, but who knows, you may end up being one of the roaches that gets exterminated.

I won’t specualte on the likelihood of the Inquisition coming to pass or who might lead it either.  The Track Record for such things is rather muddy overall, but I would say that the general results of the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror were overall an improvement over the Monarchy that preceeded it.  Also I would say that although certainly corrupt in the aftermath, it was an Improvement over in Russia when Nicholas and Alexandra Romanoff were filled full of lead in a Ruskie basement
As to myself being pulled in front of the Inquisition?  Possible of course, but a risk I am willing to take as a last ditch effort to Save Mother Earth and avoid an ELE for Homo Sapiens.

Yes, that could be said of any legal system operating at the complex scale of global human civilization. Our aim should not be to replicate those flawed systems or come up with new ones at the same scale, but to completely down-size the scale of operation. Your ever-evolving OMMP is a worldwide system of subjective “laws” that seeks to enact a “righteous” genocide in the name of protecting the helpless masses, and usher in a new era of peace and stability.

Ever evolving is important in order to adapt to changing circumstances.
I do agree of course that we need to shrink back to smaller more sustainable political groupings and legal systems of course.  The Inquisition is part of the Catabolic process of the large systems before a new Anabolic period or Better Tomorrow can begin.

Sometimes it’s smarter to recognize that the ends don’t justify the means, and that success can be had in more ways than one. To sacrifice one’s vengeful bloodlust for the good of the human soul, even when the former is convincingly dressed up as a humanitarian act. Your OMMP will play right into their hands of controlled depopulation. Remember, they NEED a justification for top-down, centralized enslavement and genocide of the masses, and proposals along the lines of OMMP will give it to them. A rout, indeed.

Sometimes perhaps, not this time.
I disagree of course, run correctly the Inquisition will take out the Masters and Free the Slaves, not the other way round that you project. Of course, Inquisiton Management is a difficult thing, but I never made the case this would be easy either.

Realistic thinking. We don’t have to make the effort – that is the point of free will and conscious decisions. The OMMP already sounds like a situation in which people will be told “if you don’t support the effort, you will be responsible for an ELE that is certain to occur”. A false dichotomy along the lines of “bail out the banks or watch the world economy be vaporized”, except even more extreme.

In the case of the Banks, it isn’t a False Dichotomy.  If the Banks aren’t Bailed out, the World economy WILL vaporize!  No Letters of Credit, no credible functioning Money, no Oil trade you can go on and on here with this.  Nobody has put forth a credible plan to work in the aftermath of a systemic banking collapse, and no I don’t think coining up all the Tungsten in Fort Knox will work nor do I think non-Debt based money in a Resource Based Economy will work either, but those are long debates all of their own.
As to whether we are on the road now to an ELE, I won’t answer that with words, one picture will suffice.

Another BS tactic used by people to subvert Biblical law and the teachings of Jesus – just say that it is all filled with symbolic parables and open to endless interpretation. It is no coincidence that the Roman Catholic Church kept the Bible from the people when it officially adopted Christianity – it wanted man-made religious/political/economic traditions that were ultimately geared towards retribution and war to overrule the very obvious and very clear teachings of love, forgiveness and peace found in the Books themselves. The truths laid out by Jesus as God’s human incarnation are meant to be eternal, and you cannot use Him to justify goals that are in opposition to those truths by erroneously claiming they are “adaptable” to the times.

OK, add BS to Wafting and Making Shit Up here as your stock in trade arguments.  AKA pitch out some Napalm Lite.
All the Biblical Stories may or may not all be true.  I am not convinced for instance that Moses parted the Red Sea or that Jesus Walked on Water either.  One has to read the Bible with some Critical thinking, you can’t buy the whole thing as Absolute Truth.  At the very least there have been too many centuries worth of Revisions to it to be 100% sure of what was written down in the first place.  Besides that, said stories were written by observers who you may or may not believe were Prophets of God, but even so saw the world through their own flawed Human Eyes.
It is incumbent on the Sons and Daughters of God CURRENTLY walking the Earth to respond to the challenges of our own time, which all are not precisely the same ones that were apparent when the Bible was written.  For instance, there were no Nuke Plants sitting around as Time Bombs waiting to go off then.  Nor were there 7B people inhabiting the Earth either.  In the Bible, God’s Word was to “Go Forth and Multiply”.  Is that what we need to do NOW?  Our time has different challenges to deal with, and we must find out own way to respond to them.  Every last answer is not written down in the Bible or apparent in the words of Jesus Christ either.
I most certainly understand the risks involved here, but I am pretty sure Turning the Other Cheek is not the solution we need here right now, and Jesus suggested that one also.  Methinks it is time to FIGHT BACK, not turn the Other Cheek.
RE

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 2 hours, 30 minutes ago #3336

  • ashvin
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: 12
Reverse Engineer wrote:

No, the thesis that it will continue in perpetuity is yours, not mine.  The corruption and rot go pretty deep I will grant you, but eventually you will work your way down to the point the kitchen is clean enough to cook in again.
I also am quite SURE the Army of Evil will amass itself, which is why the Army of Good better start getting ready here to go Mano-a-Mano with the AoE in a No Rules, Take No Prisoners Final Battle for ALL the Marbles.

Is there a Rule here against Wafting and Making Shit Up as you go along?  I was not aware of any such rule here.
In any event, the Cutoffs being made here are Monetary ones, not Age or Intelligence ones.  Not going after Kids or Retards.  Going after PIGMEN.

Look, the point I was trying to emphasize with the questions about cutoffs and what not was that, with them, your actions will be arbitrary and unsuccessful, but without them, your actions will necessarily harm a significant number of innocent people. And I believe you have already stipulated to the latter, so there’s really no point debating it further.
Innocent people and not-so-guilty people WILL be sacrificed in the OMMP. You believe it is a necessary evil, and I believe it is an unacceptable evil. Other people can decide for themselves.

I won’t specualte on the likelihood of the Inquisition coming to pass or who might lead it either.  The Track Record for such things is rather muddy overall, but I would say that the general results of the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror were overall an improvement over the Monarchy that preceeded it.  Also I would say that although certainly corrupt in the aftermath, it was an Improvement over in Russia when Nicholas and Alexandra Romanoff were filled full of lead in a Ruskie basement

Again, I don’t think the track record is very “muddy” at all, especially in the 20th century, which is more applicable to our times due to the scale of reactionary movements in the age of fossil fuels.

As to myself being pulled in front of the Inquisition?  Possible of course, but a risk I am willing to take as a last ditch effort to Save Mother Earth and avoid an ELE for Homo Sapiens.

What if it’s not just you, but everyone that you care about? What if it’s an entire community of people where you happen to live? At what point will you say, “enough is enough”, the means no longer justify the stated(but not certain) ends? Even if you are intellectually, emotionally and spiritually capable of drawing that line, MOST PEOPLE are not. That’s just the reality of the situation we are in.

Ever evolving is important in order to adapt to changing circumstances.

I know this is not exactly what we were talking about in this particular portion of the debate (OOMP as an ever-evolving plan), but as a partial aside:
The concept of evolution is a dangerous weapon when it is consciously applied to human societies as an end goal. I am highly suspicious of anyone who claims their policies are geared towards “evolving” the human species over short time frames. The Eugenics policies of the 20th century were a direct result of that mentality.

I do agree of course that we need to shrink back to smaller more sustainable political groupings and legal systems of course.  The Inquisition is part of the Catabolic process of the large systems before a new Anabolic period or Better Tomorrow can begin.

Ah yes, the “Better Tomorrow” – promised by Evil Dictators implementing genocidal policies since time immemorial.

Sometimes perhaps, not this time.
I disagree of course, run correctly the Inquisition will take out the Masters and Free the Slaves, not the other way round that you project. Of course, Inquisiton Management is a difficult thing, but I never made the case this would be easy either.

Well you admitted above that you cannot speculate on if, when or how exactly the OMMP would come to pass, or WHO would end up leading it, so would it be fair to say that it’s POSSIBLE that the OMMP, when actually implemented in the real world, would be led by misleading forces that want to accomplish the opposite of what you want to accomplish? That’s the point I am getting at.

In the case of the Banks, it isn’t a False Dichotomy.  If the Banks aren’t Bailed out, the World economy WILL vaporize!  No Letters of Credit, no credible functioning Money, no Oil trade you can go on and on here with this.  Nobody has put forth a credible plan to work in the aftermath of a systemic banking collapse, and no I don’t think coining up all the Tungsten in Fort Knox will work nor do I think non-Debt based money in a Resource Based Economy will work either, but those are long debates all of their own.

Yes, those are issues to be discussed in their own right. The false dichotomy I was referring to is a cognitive/psychological one, designed to make people believe that bailing out the banks is the ONLY option for humanity. Kind of like your argument for OMMP is designed to make people believe that an ELE is inevitable without it. The logic here is that, if we do not act soon to implement something like the OMMP, more Fukushima type events will keep occurring until humanity is wiped out. Who knows, you may be right – extinction may be humanity’s ultimate destiny at this point, at least in the physical sense. But even that fact doesn’t necessitate OMMP as our ONLY option to deal with that reality.

OK, add BS to Wafting and Making Shit Up here as your stock in trade arguments.  AKA pitch out some Napalm Lite.
All the Biblical Stories may or may not all be true.  I am not convinced for instance that Moses parted the Red Sea or that Jesus Walked on Water either.  One has to read the Bible with some Critical thinking, you can’t buy the whole thing as Absolute Truth.  At the very least there have been too many centuries worth of Revisions to it to be 100% sure of what was written down in the first place.  Besides that, said stories were written by observers who you may or may not believe were Prophets of God, but even so saw the world through their own flawed Human Eyes.
It is incumbent on the Sons and Daughters of God CURRENTLY walking the Earth to respond to the challenges of our own time, which all are not precisely the same ones that were apparent when the Bible was written.  For instance, there were no Nuke Plants sitting around as Time Bombs waiting to go off then.  Nor were there 7B people inhabiting the Earth either.  In the Bible, God’s Word was to “Go Forth and Multiply”.  Is that what we need to do NOW?  Our time has different challenges to deal with, and we must find out own way to respond to them.  Every last answer is not written down in the Bible or apparent in the words of Jesus Christ either.
I most certainly understand the risks involved here, but I am pretty sure Turning the Other Cheek is not the solution we need here right now, and Jesus suggested that one also.  Methinks it is time to FIGHT BACK, not turn the Other Cheek.

The reason why we are talking about Jesus and the Bible is because you essentially brought them up as justifications for your plan, in so far as you can mitigate the genocidal effects of it by offering people the opportunity to repent for their sins.
I am not arguing for the correctness or incorrectness of what the Bible says happened and what Jesus taught. I am arguing for representing those things accurately, rather than manipulating them for our own arguments. The Bible consists of perhaps the most well-preserved and widely-circulated ancient texts that we know about. By studying those texts and comparing them to each other, we can determine by and large exactly what it was saying, in terms of past events, spiritual teachings and future prophecies.
You don’t have to agree with it, but you cannot deny that it is, in fact, saying those things. I am by no means a Biblical Scholar, but there are quite a few Biblical Scholars that I have read and respect (some of whom aren’t even Christian), and they all agree that the Bible is quite straightforward and should be taken literally. That is something the institutions of the Church have not done well at all,  and we should not strive to repeat their mistakes (or intentional deceptions).

Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
Last Edit: 2 hours, 30 minutes ago by ashvin. Report to moderator

Re: Desperate European Bankster Puppets Exposed 1 hour, 41 minutes ago #3337

ashvin wrote:

Innocent people and not-so-guilty people WILL be sacrificed in the OMMP. You believe it is a necessary evil, and I believe it is an unacceptable evil. Other people can decide for themselves.

This pretty much is the Core Argument here, and as I stated well up the page here, it’s a matter of weighing how many Innocents will die and how many Guilty will be brought to Justice in different scenarios.  What I put to the reader here is that MORE Innocents will Die and Fewer of the Guilty will be brought to Justice without the Inquisition.

Again, I don’t think the track record is very “muddy” at all, especially in the 20th century, which is more applicable to our times due to the scale of reactionary movements in the age of fossil fuels.

Nicholas and Alexandra Romanoff were filled full of Lead in 1917.  Far as I know, that is part of the 20th Century.

What if it’s not just you, but everyone that you care about? What if it’s an entire community of people where you happen to live? At what point will you say, “enough is enough”, the means no longer justify the stated (but not certain) ends? Even if you are intellectually, emotionally and spiritually capable of drawing that line, MOST PEOPLE are not. That’s just the reality of the situation we are in.

You know, entire communities of people are being wiped out ALREADY as we SPEAK.  So to argue that the Inquisition would CAUSE something which is already ongoing and accelerating is simply a crock of shit.
When you have a really BIG Forest Fire raging and sprinkling water on it isn’t stopping it, what do you do?  You set a BACKFIRE and let it burn also.  You kill a lot of Innocent Trees that way but in the end you save most of the Forest.  Of course you can argue that it would be better of to let the whole forest burn down more often, but inthe case of Homo Sapiens if it all burns down this time its probably never grwoing back again.

I know this is not exactly what we were talking about in this particular portion of the debate (OOMP as an ever-evolving plan), but as a partial aside:
The concept of evolution is a dangerous weapon when it is consciously applied to human societies as an end goal. I am highly suspicious of anyone who claims their policies are geared towards “evolving” the human species over short time frames. The Eugenics policies of the 20th century were a direct result of that mentality.

Evolution is a dangerous concept, so is Creationism.  Accepting that things are immutable and not subject to change is itself a very dangerous concept.  Danger lurks about us everywhere.  You just gotta stay on your toes and keep your eyes open.

Ah yes, the “Better Tomorrow” – promised by Evil Dictators implementing genocidal policies since time immemorial.

Back to the Evil Dictators you see lurking around every Street Corner.  How about Joan of Arc?  Was she an Evil Dictator?  What about Fidel?  Was he an Evil Dictator?  How about Hugo Chavez?  is he an Evil Dictator?  Dictators often do unpleasant things, but they aren’t all Evil either.

Well you admitted above that you cannot speculate on if, when or how exactly the OMMP would come to pass, or WHO would end up leading it, so would it be fair to say that it’s POSSIBLE that the OMMP, when actually implemented in the real world, would be led by misleading forces that want to accomplish the opposite of what you want to accomplish? That’s the point I am getting at.

Yes it is Possible.  No guarantees, particularly in a risky situation like this.  However, when you have millions being murdered every day through chemical, biological and nuclear poisoning, not to mention non-stop wars all over the Planet, you gotta take some risks here.

The logic here is that, if we do not act soon to implement something like the OMMP, more Fukushima type events will keep occurring until humanity is wiped out. Who knows, you may be right – extinction may be humanity’s ultimate destiny at this point, at least in the physical sense. But even that fact doesn’t necessitate OMMP as our ONLY option to deal with that reality.

When somebody comes up with a better Option with a greater chance of success I’ll jump right on board.  Meanwhile, its the best option I can come up with.  If you have a better one, I am all ears.  I’ll deconstruct it and demonstrate why it has a lower potential for success.

The reason why we are talking about Jesus and the Bible is because you essentially brought them up as justifications for your plan, in so far as you can mitigate the genocidal effects of it by offering people the opportunity to repent for their sins.

No, I didn’t bring up Jesus, you did.  I never use Jesus as justification since I am not a Christian.  I do use the Bible as reference material and as a possible Window to understand God better, but I don;t buy the whole ball of wax lock stock and barrel.

I am not arguing for the correctness or incorrectness of what the Bible says happened and what Jesus taught. I am arguing for representing those things accurately, rather than manipulating them for our own arguments. The Bible consists of perhaps the most well-preserved and widely-circulated ancient texts that we know about. By studying those texts and comparing them to each other, we can determine by and large exactly what it was saying, in terms of past events, spiritual teachings and future prophecies.
You don’t have to agree with it, but you cannot deny that it is, in fact, saying those things. I am by no means a Biblical Scholar, but there are quite a few Biblical Scholars that I have read and respect (some of whom aren’t even Christian), and they all agree that the Bible is quite straightforward and should be taken literally. That is something the institutions of the Church have not done well at all,  and we should not strive to repeat their mistakes (or intentional deceptions).

Biblical scholars can “all agree that the Bible is quite straightforward and should be taken literally”, but regardless of what Triv would call an appeal to authority argument, I am sorry, I just don’t buy that Moses parted the Red Sea or that Jesus walked on Water.
I do believe though that quite a bit of the History in the Bible is correct, including the fact that a Preacher named Jesus likely was walking around Rome and the periphery during some exceedingly hard times.  Son of God though?  No moreso than you or I are Sons of God in all probability.  Do you take LITERALLY that Jesus was the Son of God?  This may be the source of our differing perceptions of the Bible.
RE

Knarf plays the Doomer Blues

https://image.freepik.com/free-icon/musical-notes-symbols_318-29778.jpg

Support the Diner

Search the Diner

Surveys & Podcasts

NEW SURVEY

Renewable Energy

VISIT AND FOLLOW US ON DINER SOUNDCLOUD

" As a daily reader of all of the doomsday blogs, e.g. the Diner, Nature Bats Last, Zerohedge, Scribbler, etc… I must say that I most look forward to your “off the microphone” rants. Your analysis, insights, and conclusions are always logical, well supported, and clearly articulated – a trifecta not frequently achieved."- Joe D

Archives

Global Diners

View Full Diner Stats

Global Population Stats

Enter a Country Name for full Population & Demographic Statistics

Lake Mead Watch

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-BX686_LakeMe_G_20130816175615.jpg

loading

Inside the Diner

A U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagle flies over the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility, August 24, 2020.The U.S. strike a...

Bloomberg's Tim O'Brien, one of the few journalists who has seen former President Donald Trump's tax returns, told MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell on Thursday night he will sleep better now that Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance finally has eight years o...

[img]https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/7A.7rTL03b467uyqxvOkeA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTYwMA--/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/d7kZ48I_W9b_Kx8mj8_TyA--~B/aD01MDA7dz04MDA7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_root_754/f5ac06c16...

Recent Facebook Posts

No recent Facebook posts to show

Diner Twitter feed

Diner Newz Feeds

  • Surly
  • Agelbert
  • Knarf
  • Golden Oxen
  • Frostbite Falls

Quote from: UnhingedBecauseLucid on March 18, 2019 [...]

CleanTechnicaSupport CleanTechnica’s work via dona [...]

QuoteThe FACT that the current incredibly STUPID e [...]

Quote from: K-Dog on February 24, 2020, 06:23:52 P [...]

I wonder how much these coins have been debased? [...]

Precious tip of the day.....Buy silver NOW  She [...]

Scientists have unlocked the power of gold atoms b [...]

Quote from: azozeo on August 14, 2019, 10:41:33 AM [...]

I am OUT of Jury Service!  I got summoned to be a [...]

Quote from: Eddie on May 16, 2020, 10:30:30 AMQuot [...]

Quote from: RE on May 16, 2020, 08:20:06 AMQuote f [...]

Quote from: RE on May 16, 2020, 08:20:06 AMQuote f [...]

Alternate Perspectives

  • Two Ice Floes
  • Jumping Jack Flash
  • From Filmers to Farmers

  Tyranny, Inc.   By Alexander Macris Contemplations on the Tree of Woe   What government wants to d [...]

Getting Out of Dodge By Cognitive Dissonance     Recently I received an email from a reader who aske [...]

Penalizing Prudence By Cognitive Dissonance     “Economy, prudence, and a simple life are the sure m [...]

Harvest at Chez Cog By Cognitive Dissonance   It became obvious to Mrs. Cog and I by early February [...]

  Perhaps a Crumble Rather Than a Collapse Chapter One By Cognitive Dissonance     “...we can endure [...]

Event Update For 2021-02-25http://jumpingjackflashhypothesis.blogspot.com/2012/02/jumping-jack-flash-hypothesis-its-gas.htmlThe [...]

Event Update For 2021-02-24http://jumpingjackflashhypothesis.blogspot.com/2012/02/jumping-jack-flash-hypothesis-its-gas.htmlThe [...]

Event Update For 2021-02-23http://jumpingjackflashhypothesis.blogspot.com/2012/02/jumping-jack-flash-hypothesis-its-gas.htmlThe [...]

Event Update For 2021-02-22http://jumpingjackflashhypothesis.blogspot.com/2012/02/jumping-jack-flash-hypothesis-its-gas.htmlThe [...]

Event Update For 2021-02-21http://jumpingjackflashhypothesis.blogspot.com/2012/02/jumping-jack-flash-hypothesis-its-gas.htmlThe [...]

In the meantime, industrialised chickens – and their viruses – have come home to roost in Victoria, [...]

Based on extensive scientific research, a fictional reminder that COVID-19 is but a mild pandemic – [...]

In other words, treat COVID-19 like a dry-run for the upcoming “big one” [...]

However don't expect strikes and yellow vests to fix underlying problems [...]

Daily Doom Photo

man-watching-tv

Sustainability

  • Peak Surfer
  • SUN
  • Transition Voice

The Great Pause Week 49: BiCRS Without Borders"Imagine bamboo skyscrapers and biochar sponge cities. Imagine the Spruce Goose."About 400 [...]

 "What we need to do will cost less by one-third what we currently spend on fossil fuel subsidi [...]

"To reach a carbon footprint of net zero, we will need to cut the US pet population by some 10 [...]

"In 2020, federal protection for the gray wolf was removed entirely. Now the entire species tee [...]

"Capitalism is a system that centers capital and wealth. Socialism is a system that centers soc [...]

The folks at Windward have been doing great work at living sustainably for many years now.  Part of [...]

 The Daily SUN☼ Building a Better Tomorrow by Sustaining Universal Needs April 3, 2017 Powering Down [...]

Off the keyboard of Bob Montgomery Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666 Friend us on Facebook Publishe [...]

Visit SUN on Facebook Here [...]

Camus didn't predict Covid, but he studied enough about pandemics throughout history to depict [...]

Sarah Chayes spent decades studying networks of corruption in the Third World. Now she's findin [...]

What extinction crisis? Believe it or not, there are still climate science deniers out there. And th [...]

My new book, Abolish Oil Now, will talk about why the climate movement has failed and what we can do [...]

A new climate protest movement out of the UK has taken Europe by storm and made governments sit down [...]

Top Commentariats

  • Our Finite World
  • Economic Undertow

In reply to Mirror on the wall. I intended but forgot while typing to mention in the main body of my [...]

In reply to davidinamonthorayearoradecade. @davidinamonth, Your thesis is eminently logical and just [...]

In reply to Mirror on the wall. "capitalism is a profit based system and therefore a growth bas [...]

In reply to Gail Tverberg. It may be possible, although I need to hear the details, since it was my [...]

In reply to Nehemiah. so the very disturbing graph is only through mid Q4 2020. did the cross happen [...]

Thanks for the repost. It would be a good idea to see more of these when you're not writing! [...]

The Bakken keeps extracting the oil. Year over year, about 100 more wells and 20% less production. I [...]

Ugh, time has gone by and I haven't checked in. I meant to add 'The End of the Megamachine [...]

If, as some claim, the cost of energy is heading to zero, why do we need to accumulate so much debt? [...]

In reply to ellenanderson. Well, I keep abreast of energy, economics, and Covid developments through [...]

RE Economics

Going Cashless

Off the keyboard of RE Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666...

Simplifying the Final Countdown

Off the keyboard of RE Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666...

Bond Market Collapse and the Banning of Cash

Off the microphone of RE Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666...

Do Central Bankers Recognize there is NO GROWTH?

Discuss this article @ the ECONOMICS TABLE inside the...

Singularity of the Dollar

Off the Keyboard of RE Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666...

Kurrency Kollapse: To Print or Not To Print?

Off the microphone of RE Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666...

SWISSIE CAPITULATION!

Off the microphone of RE Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666...

Of Heat Sinks & Debt Sinks: A Thermodynamic View of Money

Off the keyboard of RE Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666...

Merry Doomy Christmas

Off the keyboard of RE Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666...

Peak Customers: The Final Liquidation Sale

Off the keyboard of RE Follow us on Twitter @doomstead666...

Collapse Fiction

Useful Links

Technical Journals

The core crop region of the Humid Pampa is one of the most productive agricultural lands around the [...]

A new model of an axially-symmetric stationary concentrated vortex for an inviscid incompressible fl [...]

Weather forecasting relies on the use of numerical weather prediction (NWP) models, whose resolution [...]

The building energy performance pattern is predicted to be shifted in the future due to climate chan [...]

Ae. (Stegomyia) aegypti L. and Aedes (Stegomyia) albopictus Skuse mosquitoes are major arboviral dis [...]