Where Have All the Doomers Gone?

Off the keyboard of RE

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Published on the Doomstead Diner on November 24, 2014

Discuss this article at the Kitchen Sink inside the Diner

I’ve been chronicling Collapsing Economics on the Internet since 2008, after the collapse of the Investment banking firm Bear Stearns.  I knew nothing of Peak Oil at the time, and I had not really concerned myself with the monetary system, Stocks, Bonds, Investing etc since the 1980s.

I spent about the first month just trying to figure out why Bear Stearns went south, and why there was a run on the bank.  Eventually this led me to the PeakOil.com website, which at the time was very active in the commentary.  I learned a lot over there from folks who had been tracking this since even before the site was founded in 2004, and over time I got hold of the relationship between the Energy Depletion issues and the Monetary Problems going on at the time.  What would inevitably occur became quite clear, and I wrote this line in 2008:

“It will all Burn Up in the Greatest Bonfire of Paper Wealth in all of Recorded History”

A “Quote of the Month” on Peak Oil, and the Bonfire is well underway now, country after country falls into economic collapse, more Amerikans are on SNAP Card food assistance every year, and the geopolitical consequences become ever more dangerous by the day here.

Despite the fact the consequences become ever more obvious every day, it appears that there is ever less discussion about this on the internet.  Besides the economic issues, the climate problems become more apparent every day as well, drought in California, record snowfall in Buffalo, Super Typhoons hitting SE Asia on a weekly basis, you name it evidence of vast climate change is in evidence everywhere, but still the Deniers just return with “of course the climate changes, it always changes”.  True enough, but what it it changes so much it’s impossible to live in your local environment anymore because the floods come so often or because there is no water to drink?

On top of all that, you have the Ebola virus spreading in Africa, and ever escalating geopolitical conflicts between Russia and NATO, the Chinese and Japanese, and then of course ISIS Radical Muslims Beheading anyone they can get their hands on to strike TERROR into the heart of the average Oil Konsumer.

By EVERY measure in EVERY area of Collapse, there is way more in evidence today than when I started chronicling it on Peak Oil in 2008.  Conversely though, the worse it gets, the LESS people engage to discuss it, both in the commentary of Collapse blogs as well as the main Collapse Bloggers themselves.

The main folks who have been chronicling this the longest, people like Jim Kunstler and Dmitry Orlov rehash material they have been using for a decade, with the only real update to this whatever the latest manifestation is out in the real world in Current Events.  For people who have been following the collapse this long, there are no real NEW observations to make.

Far as the commentary goes anywhere, it’s all ideological bullshit and stupidity, from the commentary of Zero Hedge to The Burning Platform and back to Peak Oil too.  Anyone online in the collapse blogosphere has heard it all before, and basically anyone with any intelligence has STOPPED talking about it.  Folks like George Mobus, Paul Chefurka, David Korowicz, Nicole Foss and others have simply dropped off the map for the most part, nothing left to say, the die is cast and the Show will go on no matter what kind of Jawboning goes down on the net, or in Congress or at the European Parliament too for that matter.

This seems to have led to a kind of malaise, as folks just tun inward and pursue their own lives in the face of how collapse is affecting them.  Why talk about it on the Internet now?  We all know what is coming down the pipe here.

For me, I have come to realize that it really is not that important if people are talking or not, if there is discussion or not, I’m just observing it now.  I also will not change my opinion on where it is all going in any debate, and I am certainly not going to waste my time with Ideologues who will pitch their spin no matter how much evidence to the contrary show that it’s wrong headed.

So nowadays, I don’t look for or expect conversation on the topics, I just observe it and write down the observations as it occurs, a kind of contemporary history file overall.

EVERYBODY KNOWS what is coming down the pipe now.  As Leonard Cohen wrote so long ago now:

“Take one last look at this Sacred Heart before it BLOWS”

because anybody with any Common Fucking Sense now KNOWS IT WILL BLOW, and we won’t have to wait another 50 years for it to blow either.  In fact it is blowing as we speak, but if the implosion hasn’t yet hit your neighborhood or your job, you can still delude yourself into believing it all will work out OK in the end.

We have a little time left here, how much is anybody’s guess these days, so for everyone I suggest you try to find a little bit of Happiness and enjoy your life as it is, if you have not yet fallen off the Cliff and Collapse has not yet reached your doorstep.  Enjoy cooking and eating good food if it is available, drive the countryside while there is still gas at the pump, even go Shop On Black Friday at Walmart if finding Bargains is what floats your boat.

If you are very fortunate, you will find some others to join with as the Flowers Wilt.  For me, the Great Gift of the Diner was to find a few other people to observe this with, and it is the Gift that Keeps on Giving.

35 Responses to Where Have All the Doomers Gone?

  • Gazza says:

    Where still with you man! watching and waiting. And better prepared every day.
    Even though we may not be saying very much.

  • Mister Roboto says:

    My thoughts so exactly, I might have written this myself over on my insignificant little bitch-box of an indulgence-blog. My latest observation there (I’m still working on it as of this comment) is an answer to the question, “How can the Democratic Party Kool-Aid drinkers still be partaking of that swill at this point in the game?” The short answer is that it’s religion! And not just in some cute metaphoric sense. It is in fact old-fashioned, service-attending, heretic-excoriating, demonology-obsessing religion in the truest sense of the word, and as such it is inherently non-falsifiable and more about keeping the psyches of the remaining faithful intact than about any social, political, or economic reality.

  • tj says:

    roger, IMO you’ve provided more info and comically satisfying sarcansm than anyone else whose blog i’ve found. for several years i’ve saved reading your incredibly updated blog till last (after the NEWZ, armstrong, mish, supkis golem and undertow) as i didn’t want anywhere else waiting as i soaked up your daily dose of info and rant and the writers you’ve shared, especially escobar, blum, the uk-spain-denmark-uk guy, the seed-collector and the sailor.
    this is a kind of fan mail, because that’s what i am. like with any virtual love affair the awkward moments arrived.
    for me it was your move, realizing that my hero has CARZ and an escape-mobile which depends on the kindness of Strangers to motor godknows where all the while trusting his NEW neighbors!
    but it didn’t diminish you or your mission, only made you charmingly real. you seem to me to be like the good teacher who has to cope with seeing the student dissappear having to do with little or no feedback, but content knowing one gave one’s best. you seem to me exceptionally intelligent, exceptionally informed, exceptionally compasionate, exceptionally corageous and exceptionally combative. you are among my most admired men. thanks.
    all the best!
    in case no one else suggested it, forget about tryiing to remove that stain, just add more ‘stain’ until you’ve got a beautiful, slightly water repellent uniform surface. of course it might be slightly slick even explosive for a little while, but visually it will be perfect. i do it on my brick patio where the tractor leaks. brushed-on old transmission fluid makes them beautiful, plus weeds don’t grow in the cracks. after every apllication i plant a tree:-)

  • Mister Roboto says:
  • WHD says:

    I’ve come to the conclusion that a global, collective dark night of the soul is most likely, which will take humanity at least 200 years to emerge from. Meanwhile, I am content to be in love, to build my greenhouse, to build a rocket mass heater, and to contemplate whatever other skills I need, to maintain myself something like the full term of a human, to make myslef useful in whatever context; ranting online about collapse is not conducive to mental health or financial security, for me.

    Global economic collapse is death and rebirth. I’m most focused now on rebirth. Because our actions now reverberate through time, for generations. We are the seed of a new Aeon. And a new Aeon is coming, it will look very different from the life we know, it will be healthier for the earth and people. We will not see it come to fruition, but it will.

    Evolution is adaptation. To be aware of economic collapse is an advantage. Evolve.


  • Regina says:

    You are not alone I follow your blog since 2008. I learn a lot from Nicole foss, george möbius and others. We are still here and you are doing a fantastic job. Thanks. 🙂

  • Bruce Stephenson says:

    When collapse was still several decades out only visionaries who had studied the topic could see what was coming. Limits to Growth (LtG) was first published in 1972. The current impending collapse is precisely what they were talking about. I learned all about LtG in 1981, when I was 12. In 1998, with the publication of The End of Cheap Oil, it became clear that petroleum would be the first LtG factor to bite. Back then it was still reasonable to say, “If only we took these steps we could greatly delay or mitigate collapse.”

    From about 2000 through 2008 there was lots of talk about impending collapse. Most people who was mentally inclined to understand the issues went through the various stages of grieving for our dying civilization. This made the collapse blogosphere quite busy. I personally reached ‘acceptance’ circa 2000.

    Since about 2009 it’s been obvious, to anyone willing to think about it, what’s coming. Educated young people already understand. Recently one of my daughters asked, “Dad, when will human population die-off begin in earnest”. My other daughter answered her. “Sister, it will happen when the global death rate exceeds the global birthrate. This has already occurred in some parts of sub-saharan Africa, but is not yet global. The global shift may arrive as soon as 2020, and will almost certainly have occurred by 2035. This means we get to live in interesting times!”

    At this late date, nearly 2015, it’s clear that collapse is coming soon. Only the willfully blind, which includes most humans, can reasonably deny it. It’s obvious that whatever might have been done was not done. Our civilization chose to remain dishonest about the possibility of collapse and took no steps at all to either prevent or mitigate it. Here’s what Dennis Meadows, one author of the original LtG study, had to say about this topic in 2014.

    Essentially, most everyone who is going to become collapse aware already is. This has turned out to be a vanishingly small minority of the total human population. Those who study human nature, evolutionary neurophysiology, and energy resources say, “How could it be otherwise”. At this late date there’s no longer much point in talking about collapse. It’s either already upon us, or it’s coming soon. Those in the know have shifted strategies from ‘trying to warn someone’ (which turned out to be mostly pointless and quixotic) to ‘get my own house in order as best I can’.

  • RE says:

    Tom, Regina

    Thanks for that fan mail, it helps.

    It took me a long time to start a blog because I always thought of myself as a Message Board/Forum debater, not a Blogger. I like to write in dialogue, in discussion with other people.

    The amount of good discussion I have been able to find however has been steadily diminishing, both in the blogosphere in general and here on the Diner Forum also. Even though I know from Google Analytics that the Blog has a pretty large circulation, I often feel like I am writing to myself.

    Now back to our regularly scheduled Doom… :mrgreen:


  • Ken Barrows says:

    Three periods of economic history in the USA since 1900:
    (1) 1900-1971 oil consumption rising about 6-7% per year
    (2) the age of fiat/debt (from 8/15/1971) to Lehman’s collapse (9/15/08)
    (3) central banks 2008–??

  • MH says:

    Well one thing is for sure RE nobody’s talking about a Revolution but then it seems a political solution is not the solution. I guess on one level Doomers (of what ever persuasion) have not built a narrative, after all what sort of narrative would enervate humans to actually be heroic, and I guess like in war it will end up being ordinary people doing very extraordinary things. I feel the most frustrating thing is the ennui and suffocating empathy of fellow citizens of this planet but then Marx always had it right about exploitation and alienation but he preceded Himmler who recrafted persuasion into marketing and propaganda and discovered the gift that keeps on giving for power elites of all persuasions (men, businesses, organisations, military, governments) the capacity to so twist the meaning of meaning that one is left permanently confused to the point of catatonia.

    On another level I think a certain generation were so relieved to be out of SE Asia and the rice paddies that we partied too hard and lost sight of some more intrinsic truths we uncovered in the 60’s and 70’s and like our parents put our shoulder to the wheel and enjoyed the goodies and ease of life that modern technology and the consumer focus could deliver. MSM has run a very consistent meme that is the norm, it is all good, busted systems are just cyclical idiosynchrosies and for generations we have taken our narrative and explanations from MSM and have been happy to watch the show. So Doomers are really like real hippies, there are lots of people who think they are, but they are not, realistic doomers know its stuffed and have been positioning themselves accordingly to be as self reliant as they can, to be able to develop basic sustenance and subsistence if they can and to try and nurture true communities where honest open and adult discussion can take place.

    Thats what is so precious and so much fun at the Diner, it is that community, even though everyone is a bit busted at the moment but the personal stories make it worthwhile and the alternative and shall we say real linkages to what is happening like a good message board keep us in the loop and involved.

    Anyway as the old saying go, when your up to your ass in alligators its really hard to remember that your were here to drain the swamp.

  • After one moves far enough through to the consideration of the degree to which some serious collapses into crazy chaos appears practically guaranteed, then changing gears to comprehend that becomes extremely problematic! Furthermore, one runs into a head-on collision with the issues of how to respond to the uglier sides of those events. In that respect, I thought that comment above by Bruce Stephenson was most perceptive, especially the line that stated “Those in the know have shifted strategies from ‘trying to warn someone’ (which turned out to be mostly pointless and quixotic) to ‘get my own house in order as best I can’.”

    In that context, I will double down on my own kind of “mostly pointless and quixotic” considerations regarding how and why we have NOT responded by changing in any significant ways, so far, to respect the real limits to growth, which we have been rushing towards an exponentially accelerating rate throughout the history of Neolithic Civilizations.

    Mainstream economists deliberately ignore how money
    was based on enforced frauds, because they deliberately
    ignore the death controls that were behind debt controls.

    The limits to growth, provoking collapses via overshoots,
    will intensify the manifestation of deceitful death control,
    while better death controls will be the only real solutions,
    no matter how problematically paradoxical that would be.

    Better death controls are what theoretically ought to be achieved by greater use of information, enabling higher consciousness about those death controls. They are still operating as energy systems, where energy is never created nor destroyed, but only transforms. In order to have better death controls we would have to go through intellectual scientific revolutions, to recognized the degree to which we reversed the meaning of the concept entropy. Human beings operate as entropic pumps. The most basic death controls are when we kill and eat other animals, or plants, and that included when some human beings killed other human beings, within the overall context of how human beings lived by killing other living organisms.

    The profound problems are the degree to which we understand all of that in utterly backwards ways, and thus operate inside of a Bizarro Mirror World, where everything appears proportionately backwards. The most important thing that human beings do is operate the human murder systems, as the most conscious form of the human death controls, which are central to every other sort of artificial selection. We have presented all of that in ways which are as backwards as possible, or as dominated by the biggest bullies’ bullshit world view as possible. That includes the controlled opposition, of course, such as all the significant religions and ideologies, which do not propose better death controls, but rather tend to propose that there should be no death controls, or, at least, none that human beings are conscious of operating.

    The actual death controls are done through the maximum possible deceits, and that has resulted in no possibly better scientific militarism. Therefore, we HAVE weapons of mass destruction, based on progress in sciences such as physics and biology, while there is NOTHING like that in political science, in order to examine the purposes behind the death controls, and how we could achieve those purposes better. Better death controls would require changing the language that we use, to move past the typical dualities taken for granted in our languages. We should endeavour to replace the false fundamental dichotomies and related impossible ideals with more unitary mechanisms. (I.e., almost everything that our culture calls “birth controls” are actually forms of death controls, and therefore, should be integrated into the overall better systems of death controls after perceiving that.) Better death controls would require a profound series of intellectual scientific revolutions in basic philosophy of science, which would apply to political science, and therefore, to militarism operating its death controls. The development of weapons of mass destruction should motivate us to transform ourselves, changing our politics enough to be able to survive the development of those weapons, whose continued use through the maximum possible deceits, and resulting maximum evil deliberate ignorance, is not conducive to longer term human survival …

    The actual interactions will continue to happen between the infinitely bigger forms of natural selections, driving the artificial selection systems that human beings develop, with the human murder systems necessarily being the salient center to that processes, although all other death controls, manifesting as social facts throughout every kind of cultural activity, continue to also play roles within the overall death controls. Better death controls would require an overall better science, paying more attention to the social facts, and the social engineering that followed upon facing those facts. Obviously, the problem is that history has already selected for the actual death controls to be most successfully done through the maximum possible deceits, within which context we had the treachery of spies, etc., being very significant, as the most important soldiers, in the overall context of warfare. Moreover, those actual death controls, based on the maximum possible deceits, were then the cultural context in which all controlled opposition groups, such as the significant religions and ideologies operated, i.e., within the basic deliberate ignorance due to the triumphs the real death controls being done through the maximum deceits. Better death controls would require a more scientific society, that surmounted, at least somewhat more, the dilemmas and paradoxes of the actually established death controls, and related cultural concepts, have been selected to develop artificial selection systems that operated through the maximum deceits about themselves, engendering the maximum deliberate ignorance towards those.

    Better death controls are better energy systems, which have a better understanding of the how energy is conserved, due to a better understanding of the concept of entropy, all of which require correcting the degree to which the biggest bullies’ bullshit world view has dominated the currently established artificial selection systems, to create the kind of Bizarro Mirror World we are living in now. It is a prime paradox to recognize the degree to which the only genuinely better resolutions to our real problems require better death controls. That is particularly so because the debt controls are backed by the death controls, because money is measurement backed by murder. The mainstream morons mostly know nothing about that, because they have been conditioned not to want to know, while the reactionary revolutionaries, who somewhat know, still then propose relatively silly “solutions” because nowhere do they systematically enough present what the real death controls already are, much less what better death controls there could be. Due to the degree that the biggest bullies dominated civilization, their bullshit social stories dominated everything that our culture does, including its death controls, and therefore, our economic systems operate as enforced frauds, which get away with deliberately denying and ignoring that most important and central social fact.

    Better death controls are better militarism, as an improved social science and social engineering, which is able to move through enough of a series of paradigm shifts to stop being as trapped as it is now by the language of dualities, or false fundamental dichotomies and related impossible ideals. The “Matrix of Lies” that we live within is much more pervasive and profound that almost anyone is even dimly aware of, due to the degree to which the biggest bullies’ bullshit totally dominates our culture. But nevertheless, better death controls, based on upon better understanding of general energy systems, which could enable better systems of artificial selection, should still be our realistic goals for the future.

    However, generally speaking, moving through to that kind of argument is WAY MORE “mostly pointless and quixotic!” Our civilization is controlled by enforced frauds, which made it impossible for that civilization to prepare for its rushing towards the limits of that growth of that system of enforced frauds. It appears that the ruling classes have covertly prepared for the future through their kind of criminally insane social pyramid systems using inside job, false flag attacks, to start more genocidal wars, along with preparing to impose democidal martial law. However, since those are done through the maximum possible deceits, they cannot be admitted into the currently dominate public spaces for more rational debates. That is especially “mostly pointless and quixotic” because while the masses of muppets do not want to know about those kinds of social facts, the few that do tend to then collapse back to bullshit “solutions” based on the same old-fashioned false fundamental dichotomies, and related impossible ideals, which actually will continue to cause the opposite to happen in the real world, as those have always done throughout human history, since that was originally the biggest bullies’ bullshit world view to start with!

    We are rushing towards overshooting the limits to growth, which would cause serious collapses into crazy chaos. The social pyramid systems that were based upon backing up lies with violence for thousands of years cannot adapt to that, other than through even more lies and violence. I.e., the ruling classes are preparing for nothing other than to mass murder more people. However, since only better death controls could provide better solutions, I continue to indulge in my “mostly pointless and quixotic” attempts to communicate those concepts.

    After several decades of thinking about these things, I continue to get by with these personal quirks:






    … … … ENERGY IS SPIRIT … … …

    Energy & The Economy – Why Society Will Be Forced To Become Less Complex


    The physical technologies are relatively secondary, because none of them can actually operate outside of the political situation. … I tend to believe there are an abundance of creative alternative technologies, HOWEVER, none of them could actually work within alternative politics, which means, at its heart, there would have to be alternative death controls to back up alternative debt controls. It is impossible to separate alternative technologies from the alternative life styles which would be necessary, especially since the best developments of the alternatives requires those to be assembled into overall systems.

    As Martenson stated in the video above, some alternatives could provide a higher quality of life, despite consuming less material, if that was done well enough. Indeed, for most people, most of the time, greater use of information, enabling higher consciousness, would provide superior solutions to their problems. However, that is extremely difficult inside of social pyramid systems where there was a perpetual war against the consciousness of the people being ruled over by those who ruled them.

    As I have similarly commented regarding every new episode of the “Crash Course,” it continues to be grossly optimistic, and makes excessive use of Hanlon’s Razor, because Chris Martenson, et alia, tend to deliberately refuse to think more about the crucial issues of the death controls, that backed up the debt controls, that now operate through our combined murder/money systems, through which any possible physical resource or technology is controlled by the surrounding political situations. Within the established MAD Money As Debt system, nothing could be financed without making more “money” out of nothing as debts in order to “pay” for that, while we are already drowning in that MAD debt slavery system having generated numbers which became debt insanities. Therefore, it gets harder and harder to imagine how that system can finance any integrated systems of alternatives, after that system has already been over-saturated with debt insanity numbers, which have no mathematically possible ways to ever be repaid within that system, where the only “money” IS debt.

    Generally speaking, money is measurement backed by murder. That is the core of the problems that the established systems were due to the triumphs of organized crime, growing at an exponential rate throughout the history of Neolithic Civilizations, which were social slavery systems, based on backing up lies with violence, that were able to rape and plunder a fresh planet through developing the political means to be able to do that, which were amplified to more astronomical sizes by advances in science and technology. THERE IS NO WAY TO RESOLVE THE REAL PROBLEMS WITHOUT SOME ALTERNATIVE HUMAN MURDER SYSTEMS BEING THE KEYSTONE TO ANY SYSTEM OF ALTERNATIVES, OR THE LYNCH PIN THAT HOLDS THOSE TOGETHER.

    Of course, that is WHY resolving any of our problems in any better ways appears practically impossible, while the path of runaway debt insanities provoking death insanities appears way more probable. Although I believe there are an abundance of possible technologies, and that some technological miracles could eventually be proven possible, NONE of that can work without the political miracles of human beings developing overall better death control systems. Those political miracles are far more improbable than the technological miracles. However, without those political miracles, then any technological miracles will only make the established social pyramids grow to become even more criminally insane.

    For me, the great irony of the presentations made in Martenson’s “Crash Course” is that those do NOT become radical enough in assessing how human systems operate as general energy systems. The primary reasons for that appear to be the almost universal errors in the philosophy of science, which reversed the meaning of entropy, by inserting an arbitrary minus sign into the entropy equations, as well as the far reaching consequences of deliberately ignoring the ways that real politics actually operates according to the principles and methods of organized crime.

    The core to real politics has been the death controls. Anyone who proposes we adapt to the kinds of problems correctly identified in the “Crash Course” without discussing the death control systems is deliberately ignoring the most important features at the heart of everything else. Our entire political economy was based on ENFORCED FRAUDS that controlled how the industrial revolutions actually manifested. The problems we are facing are due to the ways that our civilization is based on systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, which the vast majority of people have been conditioned to not want to understand, despite those problems becoming magnified many orders of magnitude by progress in science and technology, all still taking place within the politics of social pyramid systems, which are were always controlled by backing up lies with violence.

    Genuinely better resolutions of our problems could only be done through real, radical, revolutions, that must change the ways that the murder systems back up the money systems, in order to be able to pay for developing any other possible sets of technologies, which become more imperative as the old-fashioned systems are reaching their limits. The collapse into crazy chaos of the established systems of globalized monkey money, backed by apes with atomic bombs, has nothing in human history to compare it to! Indeed, the main reasons why that has not collapsed already is that nobody can come up with any better realistic solutions. The established systems are runaway criminal insanities, against which no saner people can stand.

    Economics is a subset of militarism. The connection between economics and energy are through the ways that general energy systems work. However, when one applies the basic concepts of general energy systems to human civilizations, one understand how and why human systems are organized lies operating robberies, whereby the society is controlled by the methods of organized crime, and thus, develop along the paths of the minimum morality.

    MY PERSONAL VIEW IS THAT THE UNIVERSE IS ALREADY PERFECT. Human systems of artificial selection have developed as best they could, to become based on the maximum possible deceits, which became the foundation for a political economy dominated by the maximum possible frauds. Of course, that was why that kind of civilization did not develop any saner public ways to prepare to running into the real limits to its exponential growth, despite that it was always intellectually obvious that endless exponential growth was absolutely impossible, and therefore, some sort of different evolutionary ecology would have to develop, somehow, even including the possible extinction of the human species, by them not being able to do anything better that commit collective suicide.

    The deeper problems are not only that the death controls are central to the established systems, but would also have to still be central to any alternative systems. However, breaking through to transform ourselves in those ways means that the currently dominate State Religions, of the Monetary System and National Security would have to be superseded, while going backwards to any old-fashioned Religions or Ideologies would be useless. In that context, I continue to indulge in my own kind of “blogging” despite that being “mostly pointless and quixotic” because it has the only adequate degree of intellectual integrity that I can respect. As we rush towards overshooting, causing crazy collapses into chaos, we are mainly rushing towards the debt insanities provoking death insanities, which will be the real driving forces behind the crises opportunities for new systems of death controls to perhaps emerge. Indeed, there is no doubt that some sort of new death controls will happen. The most probable ones are those that the ruling classes have been covertly preparing for. However, I like to daydream of perhaps catalyzing that transformation. Of course, it becomes as intensely paradoxical as it could possibly become to speculate upon the crazy collapses into chaos provoking death insanities! However, it seems clear that the main ways that Peak Everything Else will transpire is by provoking Peak Human Insanities.

    It is perhaps in that context why many previous bloggers about the coming collapses have quit, because it is not clear to them whether there is any practical point in moving on through to public discussions about the future death controls. After all, we continue to be stuck in the dilemma of the history of warfare, such as stated in the first book on the Art of War, whose first chapter discussed that success in war was based on deceits, and then concluded in the last chapter by describing the kinds of spies who were the most important soldiers. Real human murder systems, operating death controls, have always been based on success through the maximum possible deceits and treacheries. As we run into the limits to growth, or rather overshoot those to collapse into crazy chaos, the eruption of natural selection pressures, driving intense artificial selection pressures, are what we can most certainly expect to happen.

    Personally, I do not think it is really possible to be prepared for any of that, especially since it looks like about 99% of the population is not preparing, and therefore, the 1% that is trying to can not actually do so, in any sufficiently sane way, inside that overall context … I merely pass the time by endeavouring to understand how and why things work. Writing is a tool to help with thinking, and therefore, I tend to amuse myself by recording my thoughts (which these days is called “blogging”). As I said, my sense of intellectual integrity has driven my development of the language that I use, wherein the most important feature of transitions towards the range of possible dooms, due to different degrees of collapses, are the ways that the death insanities will manifest … Attempting to catalyze those appears to be the most honourable thing to try to do, despite that apparently being quite obviously “mostly pointless and quixotic.”

  • HnH says:

    Hello RE,

    I have not yet commented on your blog, but I am a regular visitor. My perspective on why the doomersphere (Gail Tverberg’s blog aside) is going silent, is, as many on here already mentioned, a confluence of factors.

    1. There is no more need to understand the issue. We see it evolving right in front of us.

    2. Collapse is unstoppable because the human psyche, societal forces, economic and geopolitical forces all pull together to ensure that there is no way out.

    3. Why spoil the positive outlook of others by telling them what is going to happen? I am not a sadist, and most don’t want to know anyway. Those who will be able to cope with the changes will do so, the others are going to die. Therefore, ignorance is bliss.

    4. I am living in Europe. Preparation is almost futile, due to the very high population density. Things may be different in the US, especially in low density states, but here you can expect to get robbed. These will either be government forces or the warbands that will emerge in the very near future. Defense is useless if you do not have a sufficiently large community to share the workload. A remote location is the single most important variable to be able to use any prior preparation except for learned skills.

    5. I am convinced that many of the PTB know what’s coming (the US military knows, the German military knows, the senior levels of the Oil companies know, part of the UK government knows, et.c) . That is why I think that the West seems hellbent on stoking any conflict it possibly can. Maybe it was decided, consciously or unconsciously, that going down last is the way to go.

    6. Any kind of revolution will only hasten the collapse because it takes resources away from BAU. Since I am sure that even the highly faulty BAU is better than anarchy, global epidemics, wars and widespread hunger, I take the egoistic stance that it should get prolonged as long as possible.

    7. There is very little time left. Enjoy your warm showers, the hot meals from the microwave, carz that transport you quickly and very conveniently and heat up the cabin at the touch of a button, the internet and all the comfortable things that modern civilization is able to offer you. This is valid even if you are dependent on SNAP and other government handouts.

    8. So, yeah. What is there left to say other than watch it unfold like the biggest human drama imaginable, which it is?

  • RE says:

    Looks like this article is getting a few Lurkers out from behind the Refrigerator. :mrgreen: That’s a good thing. :mrgreen:

    Yea, Europe is in for some really bad times ahead, though perhaps if you can make your way up to the north in Finland or Lapland it might be survivable. 😀


  • step back says:

    Hi RE,

    We’re still here and checking in on your site when possible.

    As the general std of living continues its downward-heading death spiral, some of us get caught in its vortex and get pulled down just like the rest of “them” (them being those who don’t know about PO, about collapse of complex systems, etc.)

    Taking care of the strains of day to day survival takes precedence over commenting on the Diner site.
    So even if it seems like we’ve gone dark and silent, we;re still here.
    Just not able to participate as much as in easier times.

    Thanks for keeping the flame lit in the Diner fire place.

  • enicar666 says:

    Still here. 😛

    Building HERO transfer cases for abusing Mother Nature with High Horsepower Industrial Age Gasoline Powered Toys.

    Straight outta Racine WI! 😈 😈

    Trail Worthy Transfer Case: http://www.trailworthyfab.com/Transfer-Case

    Got BANNED at Peak Oil by the Fascist who runs the site. They can go F*@# themselves. Ron P. Ain’t as knowledgeable or as tolerant as he claims. 😛 😛

    Compact Fusion: http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/compact-fusion.html


    New information from the European Organization for Astronomical Research in the Southern Hemisphere:

    Spooky Alignment of Quasars Across Billions of Light-years

    VLT reveals alignments between supermassive black hole axes and large-scale structure

    (sure – just another random mistake of Evolution) :mrgreen:

    New observations with ESO’s Very Large Telescope (VLT) in Chile have revealed alignments over the largest structures ever discovered in the Universe. A European research team has found that the rotation axes of the central supermassive black holes in a sample of quasars are parallel to each other over distances of billions of light-years. The team has also found that the rotation axes of these quasars tend to be aligned with the vast structures in the cosmic web in which they reside.


    YEP – there is ORDER in the Universe.

    Human Beings are not the product of Inorganic Compounds + Time + Evolution = Human Beings. NOT

    Darwinian’s are pure Fascists who deny the fact that Human Beings are genetically modified creatures.

    A great video of Steely Dan’s Chain Lightning.

    “Chain Lightning” by Steely Dan off “Katy Lied” featuring Wilhelm Reich’s “The Mass Psychology of Fascism” in poster form as preformed by The extraordinary New York Surveillance Camera Players a combination theater and protest performance group that performs to the surveillance cameras. Photos of include Stalin*, Nixon, Bush and Clintons.

    According to a group member, a liberal estimate of the number of surveillance cameras in operation in Manhattan is now more than 10,000. This pales in comparison to London, the city with the highest concentration of surveillance cameras, where it is estimated there are 10,000 cameras in operation in London’s financial district alone.

    The location of surveillance cameras is noticeably peculiar considering their perceived purpose of crime prevention. Cameras are installed in predominantly rich zones of the city and markedly not in zones where there is high crime (the predominantly poorer zones). Cameras are also installed predominantly in crowded thoroughfares rather than in back alleys. Cameras are frequently installed within private property (though technically legal) but are obviously directed at monitoring public space.

    *Josef Stalin, once said, “If I could control the medium of the American motion picture, I would need nothing else to convert the entire world to communism.”

    Further Reading:
    Most people know that jazz and swing were immediately banned upon Hitler’s ascension to power in 1933. Swing represented the decadent society of America, while jazz threatened the racial purity of the Aryan race. A deep-rooted anti-Semitism underlay these attitudes: Swing was one component of modernism (“the refuse of a rotting society”); and jazz was being used by the Jews to corrupt the Aryan race through “musical race defilement.” Music at the home front had to conform to the traditionalist tastes of Hitler and the Nazi elite, but when it came to propaganda aimed at foreign countries, swing and jazz seemed the perfect bait. Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels was always sensitive to the enormous influence of the radio, which he viewed as second only to the press as the “most effective weapon in our struggle for existence.”

    – Krikus review of “Hitler’s Airwaves: The Inside Story of Nazi Radio Broadcasting and Propaganda Swing” by Horst J. P. Bergmeier (Author), Rainer E. Lotz (Author)

  • enicar666 says:

    And the N-Machine by Bruce DePalma. 🙂

    The uneducated Fascists at Peak Oil Barrel refuse to believe the facts in their face. 😯

    Why else should Planets , Galaxies, and Universes spin? 😐


  • enicar666 says:

    Uneducated Fascists? ❓

    Ignorant Pigs. 😯

    There is no fool like an Old fool 😳

  • RE says:

    Welcome to the Exclusive Club of Commenters BANNED at Peak Oil EC! LOL.

    Really nice to hear from all you folks at last.

    Working on my Thanksgiving article, “A Homeless Thanksgiving” now. Should have it ready for Turkey Day. Also have a Rant ready I will put up tonight called “Economic Ebola”

    I am not Outta Gas for Blogging yet. I’ll outlast everyone. :mrgreen:


  • St. Roy says:

    Hi RE

    I’m still here. Thanks for missing me. My wife was diagnosed with brain cancer so I have been distracted. Thst aside, I am still a big fan and follower. I also like Guy M. And met him F2F in San Francisco for the first time, coincidently because my wife is being treated at Stanford and Guy was attending the Earth First conference. What I learned from Guy was during the visit is that their are six stages of grief (Kubler Roth missed one). The 6th is humor. Now I know why I like you so much. Happy TG. I having macaroni and cheese and my wife hospital food. Ain’t that a lark

  • RE says:

    Bummed to hear about your wife SR. 😥

    I stopped reading NBL, too depressing, and I just can’t buy the “hopeless” meme.


  • step back says:

    St. Roy, my heart goes out to you cause I lost a loved one to brain cancer. (Suggest you move her up to UCSF. Docs at Stanford are well meaning but lightweights compared to UCSF. Of course if you have dough, there is MD Anderson in Texas or Cedar Sinai in LA. or Duke out East. Probably you’ve already done a good bit of online research and know some of this stuff. Hope for the best.)

  • renkon says:


    I read this yesterday and resolved, like HnH, to leave a first-time comment. Was on the tablet – and I’m a bit of a wuss – so gave up typing pretty quick. I don’t remember any comments at the time (perhaps 1?); pleased to see some rumblings now.

    Well, to make a short story long, like tj, I save best of my daily blogroll visits – DD – to the last, a testament to relevance of content, intelligence of contributors and your very, very funny pov. I will echo tj and say you have a way with words, gift of the gab, a healthy mix of meat (facts) and potatoes (fun). (NB. REAL meat and potatoes also recently on offer at DD. hehe, in RE voice 😆 ) I envy your intellect and diversity of experience. Gravitas plus a little RE populism make reading/listening/watching DD enlightening AND fun.

    Okay, enough fanboy mush. So I have been only taking from DD over the past 3-4 years. (How old are you, I mean, is DD?) How can I/we give back? In truth, I’m kind of quiet in the internet forums – IOW, lazy. But that might change.

    I seem to be in a phase, being in between “gigs” and with some very modest savings. I really don’t see anything useful to do in N. American economy. (I am in a major Canadian east coast city) I am single, without dependents. I am mobile, but not rich enough to purchase remote doom stead. Anyhow, I see dishonesty everywhere I look and cannot bear to participate in our economy, which I agree is quite fraudulent.

    We’ll see. In the meantime, you will continue being a 先生 to us and others. And for that, ありがとうございます。返事遅くなって申し訳ありません! I lived a long while in the land of the falling 円 and always enjoy references to all things nippon!


  • renkon says:

    not my references, of course; YOUR references 😈

  • enicar666 says:

    Homeless? 🙁

    OR Plantlessness Thanksgiving? 👿

    Scientist Says Aliens Nuked Martians and We May be Next

    Why do many of the photographs of the surface of Mars appear to be of structures that look like they’ve been destroyed and covered with dust? According to a new book by Dr. John Brandenburg, it’s because two ancient Martian civilizations were annihilated by other aliens using nuclear weapons. What’s worse, we could be next.

    Brandenburg’s book is called “Death on Mars: The Discovery of a Planetary Nuclear Massacre” and will be published in February 2015. He reviews portions of his findings at the 2014 Annual Fall Meeting of the American Physical Society and in a paper to be published in the Journal of Cosmology and Astroparticle Physics.

    Dr. Brandenburg has previously theorized that the red color of Mars and the radioactive substances in its soil are the result of a thermonuclear explosion from natural causes. He now says that the “high concentration” of Xenon-129 in the Martian atmosphere and uranium and thorium on the surface are remnants of two unnatural nuclear explosions, most likely triggered by alien invaders.

    😯 😯 😯 😯 😯

    And Dr. Brandenburg (Nice German Name) is straight outta Madison Wisconsin! AKA Little Sodom on The Lake!

    John E. Brandenburg Ph.D.

    John E. Brandenburg is a plasma physicist at Orbital Technologies in Madison Wisconsin, working on space plasma technologies and space propulsion. He also performed research on the MET(Microwave Electro-Thermal) plasma thruster for space propulsion, Rocket Plume-Regolith Interactions on the Moon and Mars, Vortex theory of Rocket engine design, and Kaluza-Klein theory of Field Unification for purposes of space propulsion. He also performed an architecture study for a Human Mars Mission using solar electric propulsion. Before coming to ORBITEC he was performing research on air plasmas and plasma propulsion at Florida Space Institute. He is a pioneer in creating electrodeless atmospheric pressure plasmas in air using microwaves. Before this he was at The Aerospace Corporation, where one of his duties was as principle investigator of the MET propulsion project. Before coming to Aerospace corporation Dr. Brandenburg was a researcher at Research Support Instruments (RSI) where he specialized in making controlled laboratory plasmas for uses ranging from air plasmas for surface sterilization , Fusion research and the MET thruster. He also worked as an independent consultant on Space Missile Defense, Directed Energy Weapons, and space rocket plume phenomenology, and also at Mission Research Corporation and Sandia National Laboratories on plasmas for controlled fusion and similar topics.

    Blah Blah Blah….

    Fusion and Plasma Studies – UWM.

    Happy Turkey Day RE! Stay warm there in Alaska!

    The Kings! This Beat Goes ON!/ Switching To Glide!

    Or in this case – J. Bavet Brandy!

    Stay Warm! 😎 😎

  • enicar666 says:

    Lil’ Bit o’ J. Bavet with some Racer X to keep ya’ warm on a short Alaskan Winter Night!

    Racer X


  • enicar666 says:

    WHOOPS! 😛

    So while I am still enjoying my past 1 pint (160z.) of J. Bavet Brandy – strong wine – some more anomalies on Mars:

    And F@%# Ron P. and his FASCIST Evolutionary Beliefs!

    BTW – in which COSMIC COURT can I sue my Creators who genetically modified me with a weak, problematic, and faulty lower support system? I want to be re-engineered with a more robust lower end!

    ‘And an oldie but a goodie:

    The Kinks

    Happy Thanksgiving!

  • enicar666 says:


    Forgot to post the link.

    Enjoy: Shults Laboratories

    Here Comes The Sun!

    Understand the IRONY!

    Between a Nuclear Reaction and the Sun!

  • RE says:


    Nice to hear from yet another Lurker/Fan!

    The Diner is going on 3 years old now, February 2015 will be the 3rd Anniversary. My history goes back a lot further than that, I had my little Reverse Engineering Yahoo Group up from about 2009 onward, and used it every time I got booted off some Forum or Blog Commentary. I spent quite a bit of time off and on at The Burning Platform doing blogging there, now kicked off again for the 3rd time. LOL. I started on the Peak Oil Forum in 2007.

    We do have a Donate Button up, but if you do want to donate don’t make it recurring, just one time donations work. We are working on getting this fixed up eventually.

    You guys should drop in the Forum. That is where most commentary for the Diner goes on, we only turned on the WP Comments a few months ago.

    Anyhow, looks like we are working into another active period, so I should have plenty to Rant on coming down the pipe. :mrgreen:


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  • Nosferatu says:

    I came to know about the inevitable collapse of industrial civilization only in February 2012, when I knew George Mobus’ blog. Following his links, I discovered Gail Tverberg and some tome later DD and RE, and learned a lot with all of you. Just commented a few times here or anywhere, because my english is awful, but keep visiting regularly this blog. I agree it’s pointless to discuss the inevitable, but peer into the horror is almost unavoidable to me. At least in doomsphere we have a kind of sense of comunity. Out there, in the real world of friends, pals and family, all there is is denying silliness. Infortunately, in my country (Portugal) almost nobody seems to have a clue about the predicament we got into. So, collapse awareness it’s a very lonely business. So I thank Zeus for blogs like this and Gail’s. Keep going RE!

  • St. Roy says:

    Hi RE

    Hey, how could Chief Doomer find NBL depressing? I rejoice at knowing that of the 100 billion of us naked apes to have lived on the planet, we are the last and lived the grandest. All species go extinct.

    Step Back. Thank you for the note. You are right about UCSF. Fortunatakely my wife’s onco-doc trained there under Rubenstein the grand master of PCNSL therspy.

  • RE says:

    SR, you obviously have never read my Taxonomy of Doomers and the difference between Full Doomers like me and Uber Doomers like Guy McPherson.

    I DON’T buy the meme of Near Term Human Extinction, certainly not on the now down to around 2035 Timeline Guy is pitching.

    I think there will be a large population crash in the near term, but even if we are going extinct this process will take quite some time to play out, more than a century to be sure. There will be some survivable habitats even with 4C rise in average global temps.

    So I don’t believe it is “hopeless” to try and figure out ways to negotiate the time period, and besides that the SMELL OF DEATH is all over NBL. Did you ever read my song parody of Simon & Garfunkel’s My Little Town, “Nothing but the Dead & Dying on NBL”? LOL.

    Anyhow, I have to get set up to do my special Thanksgiving Episode of SNAP Card Gourmet to go with the mega article I will publish later today.

    Thanks again to all the Fans out there checking in. You’ve given me a bit of a RECHARGE!


  • Hey, just a quick note to let you know, we Doomers are still out here checking in from time to time. I usually do a weekend review of the Doomosphere and drop the bad news on folks on a Sunday night or either Monday morning early.

    It’s a tough slog trying to combine alternative politics (trying to encourage Wisconsinites to join the Green Party, to run as candidates even at low levels of politics like township or village boards, City Councils etc.) with a Doomer perspective. People think you’re just trying to get them depressed and cause them to lose all hope and just quit fighting. Actually, I’m just trying to get people pissed off enough to start fighting.

    I always liked R.E.’s motto, “save as many as you can” (at least I think it’s his, or I read it on this blog anyhoo). Personally, I think we’re already out of the phase of “preparing for disaster” and have entered the phase of “disaster mitigation, nonstop” (or as Kunstler once called it, the Long Emergency, AKA 21st Century.

    Wisconsin is already reaping the downside of the global peak of conventional oil production. The powers that be are converting the state into a giant fossil fuels infrastructure and carbon-emitting ghetto, owing to the extreme nature of the remaining fossils that are to be extracted. Take the Enbridge Pipeline system, for instance.

    While everyone is freaking out about KXL, we have a tar sands line already in place, taking 600 KBpd thru the state of diluted bitumen, and in the same corridor, a diluent line running back to Canada. Then, they have applications pending to double the tar sands capacity, and also add a “twinning” line all in the same huge right-of-way. If they get their way, 2 MM Bpd will flow thru Wisconsin farmlands, wetlands, forests and riverbeds. Can you say, “ecosystem collapse?”

    Add to that, the growing presence of frac-sand mines in Wisconsin which already have claimed I estimate something like 21,000 acres of farms, forests and wetlands. The more desperate the drilling & fracking game becomes, the more land goes under the dragline. Did I mention the Bakken crude “bomb trains” criss-crossing our state?

    So the challenge is, how you get people freaked out enough about the ecodisaster we’re staring down, yet pissed off enough to fight these fossil fuel companies over their Accelerated Doom projects? Most of the highly aware people in this state (and I’m sure, yours too) are so alienated from 2-party politics that they won’t even consider that as an avenue for fighting back. And they don’t think the Wis Green Party can gain enough power to make any difference.

    I still think we’ve got to Save As Many As We Can…

    The Shadow Senator’s Staffer

  • RE says:

    I glommed the “Save As Many As You Can” Tag Line from Roland “Master of Disaster” Emmerich’s “The Day After Tomorrow” film, so it’s not really my invention. However, I have popularized it by using it regularly as a Tag Line both on the Diner Blog and inside the Diner Forum.



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