Survey: Fate of Countries in Collapse – Results: Currency Collapse

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Published on the Doomstead Diner on September 22, 2015

toast2

Discuss the Results at the Survey Table inside the Diner

TAKE THE FATE OF COUNTRIES SURVEY HERE

One of the longest running arguments on the Diner is how various different countries will fare as collapse progresses forward.

http://www.philipcaruso-story.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Where-To-Live.jpgMost often, this pits the FSoA against China, and the Diner has some China Bulls and some China Bears.  I am a notorious China Bear gong back to my days on the Peak Oil Forum, where at the time because China was such a hot investment opportunity with double-digit growth rates it was common wisdom the Chinese would out-compete the FSoA Empire to lead the world in the second half of the 21st Century.  It was there I first added my Tag Line to analysis posts on China, "The Chinese are TOAST". 😀

Now in reality here, as time goes by EVERY industrialized nation is toast, in the sense every one is dependent on the systems that are driven by copious quantities of fossil fuel energy.  Once that energy can no longer be accessed or afforded, life as we know it now wll come to a halt.

However, this is unlikely to happen all at once, and it is unlikely to play itself out exactly the same way in different countries, different regions and even from town to town.

In this survey we look at the large nation states individually and regionally for the smaller ones, to find out the opinions of the Kollapsniks TM on which ones are the best positioned as collapse gathers speed, and which ones will fare the worst.

Besides China and the FSoA, the other one of the "Big Three" countries often discussed in comparing on this topic is Russia.  Russia is often cited as more resilient by virtue of the fact they already went through one collapse when the USSR collapsed, plus the fact they have a decent amount of fossil fuel energy still left in the ground.  However, they have numerous problems as well, wars ongoing to their south, the Ukrainian situation and enormous financial and currency turbulence.

Take the survey, and let us know who you think will do best and which ones worst as collapse gets fully underway.

TAKE THE FATE OF COUNTRIES SURVEY HERE

Results: Currency Collapse & Debt Implosion Survey

http://joeforamerica.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/survey-says.jpgOK, now onto the results from last week's Collapse Survey TM, Currency Collapse & Debt Implosion.

First question to look at is which of the current major currencies is likely to collapse first, and which has the potential to hold up the longest.

This is obviously important if you want to try to "preserve wealth", you certainly don't want to be holding the currency that collapses first! Duh. Roll Eyes

On the other hand, you have the problem of the utility of a currency in your neighborhood.

For instance, say the Norwegian Krone holds its value while the FSoA Dollar crashes.  Even if you have some Krone stashed in a Norwegian or Swiss Bank account, or even actually have some of their Notes in your basement safe along with your stash of Gold Coins, is Walmart going to take your Krone for a purchase of a bag of rice in Peoria, IL?  Not very likely.  You might stand a better chance in Europe, particularly Scandinavian countries if you have Krone, but here in the FSoA they are unlikely to do you a whole lot of good.  Only if you want to do currency trading during the spin down is this worthwhile to consider, and first off you need to be pretty flush to do that kind of trading, and second it's a fool's game these days with manipulated markets.  Even back in the day when I messed with currency trading it was nuts.  You have to leverage to beat the band to make any money this way.  You can get SWAMPED in a big move overnight.  Then the margin calls hit, and your next trip is out the window of the 49th floor.

Leaving aside the question of whether holding foreign currencies might benefit you personally, on the nation state level it's important to consider because he whose Currency crashes first, Collapses first.  So who is it gonna be?

I found the results of this particular question to be absolutely astounding.  Here's the results:

  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Standard Deviation Responses Weighted Average
Chinese Renminby/Yuan 10
(9.8%)
23
(22.55%)
8
(7.84%)
17
(16.67%)
10
(9.8%)
8
(7.84%)
8
(7.84%)
1
(0.98%)
5.92 102 4.81 / 12
European Euro 9
(8.82%)
13
(12.75%)
15
(14.71%)
19
(18.63%)
10
(9.8%)
11
(10.78%)
5
(4.9%)
5
(4.9%)
5.24 102 4.88 / 12
Japanese Yen 15
(14.71%)
8
(7.84%)
13
(12.75%)
12
(11.76%)
11
(10.78%)
10
(9.8%)
8
(7.84%)
15
(14.71%)
4.92 102 4.98 / 12
Russian Ruble 7
(6.86%)
16
(15.69%)
21
(20.59%)
13
(12.75%)
8
(7.84%)
13
(12.75%)
2
(1.96%)
2
(1.96%)
5.91 102 4.99 / 12
Brasil Real 29
(28.43%)
14
(13.73%)
6
(5.88%)
3
(2.94%)
7
(6.86%)
5
(4.9%)
3
(2.94%)
4
(3.92%)
7.53 102 5.29 / 12
British Sterling/Pound 0
(0%)
3
(2.94%)
7
(6.86%)
10
(9.8%)
21
(20.59%)
6
(5.88%)
11
(10.78%)
16
(15.69%)
5.74 102 6.78 / 12
US Dollar 27
(26.47%)
7
(6.86%)
5
(4.9%)
1
(0.98%)
1
(0.98%)
3
(2.94%)
1
(0.98%)
2
(1.96%)
10.02 102 7.1 / 12
India Rupee 3
(2.94%)
13
(12.75%)
10
(9.8%)
4
(3.92%)
6
(5.88%)
8
(7.84%)
7
(6.86%)
6
(5.88%)
4.59 102 7.29 / 12
Canadian Loonie 0
(0%)
3
(2.94%)
4
(3.92%)
9
(8.82%)
2
(1.96%)
9
(8.82%)
16
(15.69%)
14
(13.73%)
6.69 102 7.66 / 12
Australian Dollar 1
(0.98%)
0
(0%)
5
(4.9%)
7
(6.86%)
8
(7.84%)
7
(6.86%)
11
(10.78%)
11
(10.78%)
7.49 102 7.84 / 12
Norwegian Krone 0
(0%)
2
(1.96%)
6
(5.88%)
2
(1.96%)
8
(7.84%)
5
(4.9%)
22
(21.57%)
17
(16.67%)
6.17 102 7.93 / 12
Swiss Franc 1
(0.98%)
0
(0%)
2
(1.96%)
5
(4.9%)
10
(9.8%)
17
(16.67%)
8
(7.84%)
9
(8.82%)
6.63 102 8.43 / 12

IMHO, this ordering is INSANE.  Apparently Kollapsniks TM think that the Chinese Renminby will collapse BEFORE the Euro and Yen!  WTF?  Not only that, the Indian Rupee will outlast the FSoA Dollar! hahahahahahahaha.

Which currency outlasts them ALL (according to Kollapsniks)?  The Swissie!  A currency issued by a tiny nation of 8M people with a GDP of $685B (2013 data) is going to outlast the Dollar and Renminby?  WTF?  There are more people living in NY Shity than all of Switzerland!

When the Euro goes down, the Swissie goes with it.  The SNB has HUGE exposure to Euro denominated debt, they have been buying it up to keep the exchange rate from going through the roof.  It's simply nuts to think this currency can outlast those of the Big 3.

My order for currency collapse?

Brasil Real
India Rupee
Russian Ruble
Japanese Yen
European Euro
British Sterling/Pound
Norwegian Krone
Swiss Franc
Australian Dollar
Canadian Loonie
Chinese Renminby/Yuan
US Dollar

Brasil is already on the serious ropes, and so is India.  Weak economies and too much poverty.  Russia should be strong, but they are a target for the Western Illuminati Banksters, so they will be under constant currency attack.  Yen & Euro go next, and then subsidiary currencies like Sterling, the Swissie and Krone go after them.  The Oz Dollar and Hoser Loonie keep value because of how closely they are connected to the FSoA Dollar.

One caveat to this is that once the cascade begins, it may be impossible to tell which one collapsed first.  Once a major like say the Japanese Yen collapses, this will cause so much havoc in the Interbank lending market that everything else will lock up in pico-seconds.

IMHO, the Final Battle for All the Currency Marbles is between the Chinese Renminby and the FSoA Dollar.  I think the Dollar wins this battle, because so much debt is denominated in dollars. Too many .01%ers have their wealth wrapped up in Dollars or Dollar denominated assets to let that one collapse.  We'll see on that one.

OK, now onto Q2, which is whether Gold & Silver will replace Fiat Currencies once they collapse?

Survey-Gold

  Yes No Standard Deviation Responses
All Data 34
(33.01%)
69
(66.99%)
17.5 103

Overwhelmingly by a 2/3rds majority, most Kollapsniks TM do not think Gold and Silver will replace Fiat once it crashes.

I tend to agree with that one, the PMs are too centralized and too few people have access to them for them to be workable as a currency medium.  There also is no clear idea on how these could be distributed out, or how letters of credit would be issued or anything else.  They might function as a Barter item, but as a currency that many use, it seems unlikely.

If Gold & Silver are NOT likely, what is likely once this Currency Regime fails? icon_scratch That was the subject for Q3.  Here's the results for that one:

  1 2 3 4 5 Standard Deviation Responses Weighted Average
TPTB will institute a New World Currency, the SDR or something similar 37
(39.36%)
11
(11.7%)
19
(20.21%)
13
(13.83%)
14
(14.89%)
9.47 94 2.53 / 5
LETS (Local Exchange Trading System) Money will be issued in many locales 23
(24.47%)
21
(22.34%)
19
(20.21%)
26
(27.66%)
5
(5.32%)
7.28 94 2.67 / 5
Paper Money will be issued based on Gold and Silver held in a Central Bank 11
(11.7%)
19
(20.21%)
29
(30.85%)
22
(23.4%)
13
(13.83%)
6.46 94 3.07 / 5
Gold & Silver Coins will be used as Currency 7
(7.45%)
32
(34.04%)
18
(19.15%)
20
(21.28%)
17
(18.09%)
7.98 94 3.09 / 5
No money will work and Trade will be all Barter 16
(17.02%)
11
(11.7%)
9
(9.57%)
13
(13.83%)
45
(47.87%)
13.3 94 3.64 / 5

A large plurality (almost 40%) of Kollapsniks TM think that TPTB will be able to institute a new centralized currency regime from the BIS (Bank for International Settlements, Basel, Switzerland, Central Bank of Central Banks, Home Base for the Illuminati). This is a particularly favored idea by Conspiracy Theorists, but it is not one I hold as most likely.  The likely candidate are SDRs, aka Special Drawing Rights, a concoction the BIS already has in place for internal use based on some potpourri of currencies and commodities and who knows what else they threw in that basket..

I am not in that camp.  Perhaps they will try this, but to get every country in the world to cede their monetary sovereignty over to the BIS would be near impossible IMHO.  It's like the Euro on Steroids.  It really does nothing other than re-denominate debt, and it sure doesn't put any new resource back in the ground.   To me, this is a non-starter.  Not to say it won't be attempted though.  It's a last gasp effort for the Illuminati to maintain hegemony over the economic system.

LETS systems of Local Currencies come in at #2, and this I feel is most likely to occur.  Regional breakup of the One to the Many TM will at least at the beginning require each region to develop their own local currency.  Potlatch at this stage of the spin down seems unlikely.

Far as Centrally held Gold being a basis for a currency, to me this is also a non-starter.  If you have a Central Bank holding gold in the Basement Safe, after a crisis of banking confidence like this, who would not go to the bank and DEMAND their "Gold Backed Note" to actually be redeemable in said Gold?  Once the gold is redeemed, what does the Bank have as an Asset?  At this point, the Gold you redeem for the note the Bank printed on it is just a barter item.

Will all trade eventually go all Barter?  It's already on its way there in some places, but that will take some time in the core countries I imagine.   Cannot be sure on this though, a rapid collapse could make barter the only functioning economic system in your neighborhood for a while.  Good idea to have barterable goods in your preps. Alcohol and Cigarettes are traditional barter items, I suggest also Tampons, Pampers, Condoms, Ammo, & Shoes as good choices of barter goods that last a long time.  Shoes in particular, have you noticed how many of the pictures of refugees show them to be barefoot?  Once trade with China halts, shoes are going to be hard to come by.  Right now though, you can buy a nice pair of sneakers at Wally World for $15 on sale.

Finally in this survey, how long before the Dollar finally dies completely and you can't use it to buy food at the major food retailers?  This could be either because the Dollar has hyperinflated to worthlessness or the shelves are empty.  Here's the results for this one:

  2016 2018 2020 2025 2030 The Dollar will keep working for the forseeable future Standard Deviation Responses
All Data 10
(9.71%)
16
(15.53%)
16
(15.53%)
22
(21.36%)
14
(13.59%)
25
(24.27%)
4.98 103

You have a pretty nice Bell Curve here, except for the 25% or so of people who thnk the Dollar will keep working past 2030.  The 2025 date seems about right to me, although again a major banking crisis and lockup could change that in an instant.

All in all, this was one of our most interesting surveys to date.

 

11 Responses to Survey: Fate of Countries in Collapse – Results: Currency Collapse

  • Pingback: Fate of Countries in Collapse – Results: Currency Collapse | Enjeux énergies et environnement

  • Mountain Hiker says:

    Regardless of whether or not any new post-collapse currency is based upon, or backed, by silver and/or gold I would still bet that silver and gold will retain fair to strong relative wealth in any new concocted currency. They may not come out the other end as the be all end all investment of all time, but they will retain value even if it is during a transition period before everything turn Mad Max, if that even happens at all. Knowing when to cash out of any ‘asset’ is part of the whole game.

  • tagio says:

    RE, the surveys are BS, I don't care if they generate traffic.  Please for the love of Dog, stop, stop.  Your rants were far more entertaining and elightening.  WHY would anyone care what the "consensus" of Boomer Doomers is on any topic??  It's just fucking OPINION.  Please, please, please stop with the surveys. This one is the most ridiculous yet. 

    • RE says:

      LOL.  I have a rant in the can for Thursday.

      If you don't like the Surveys, don't visit the Diner on Tuesdays!     Tuesdays Surveys are on Special, Thursdays Audio is on Special on the Menu!  Sunday Brunch you get a Text Doom Meal!

      Far as I am concerned, I like to collect opinions to get a better feel for the pulse of the readers.  This one was really enlightening.  I mean really, more people think the Rupee will outlast the Dollar?  That just amazed me.

      RE

      • tagio says:

        RE, hate to say it but maybe your polls are self-selecting for the uninformed, the un-reflective, the un-thinking?  I repeat, they are a waste fo time.  I don't think you are finding out what the pulse of "your readers" is, you are finding out what the pulse of a few people eager to opine think.  How do you know you are getting a statistically significant sample?

        I will stay away on Tuesday for my sanity's sake.  

        • RE says:

          It's hard to say exactly what is getting sampled here, since I PLUG the surveys on a few different websites, although they are all collapse related sites.  Probably about 30 respondents are native Diners, the rest I got no idea where they are coming from.

          The one thing you can say is that anyone who does respond is interested in topics of collapse, but that doesn't make them brilliant.  LOL.  Just go to the commentariat of Zero Hedge and you can get a good sample of how incredibly stupid Kollapsniks can be!

          RE

          • Frank Schoenburg says:

            Recomended survey question:  Which group is more annoying: 'Gold Bitches' or 'Buy the Dip'?

          • Mountain Hiker says:

            Ah yes, the commentariat of Zero Hedge and their perceptions of collapse. The average ZH Kollapsnik sees the coming collapse as a stylized version of Atlas Shrugged in which they themselves are John Galt and everyone else is in the Free Shit Army just waiting to be shot by them. In their world Peak Oil is a Communist/Liberal conspiracy, as are any allusions toward environmental destruction, ecosystem collapse, climate change, over population, etc… Austrian economics and business are the only topics worthy of consideration in Zero land, with all scientists of climate, ecology, oceanography, petro-geology and human geography being paid shills for the Communists, UN, New World Order, Illuminati, Israel, etc…

            I go to ZH to get a perspective on what the dumbasses are thinking about world events so that I can avoid them if things get sketchy. I commented there at one time, but no longer as most posters there cannot think beyond a 1954 Cold War mentality.

  • seaclipper says:

    I second the "your rants were far more entertaining and enlightening".  The value of the surveys – don't know.

  • Joe D says:

    I love the rants.  They inform me and challenge me to think more deeply about a topic.

    I read the surveys for entertainment; almost like a guilty pleasure.  The questions are good.  The answer selections are reasonable but impossible to make perfect. And the responses are often stupid and ill-informed – which is just fine and par for the course.  The VAST majority of human beings are stupid and ill-informed.  Why should this be any different?

    Part of the Diner's attraction is its varied delivery format.  Keep up the good work RE.

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