Orlov

Supply Chains, Population & Community: Conversation with Dmitry Orlov Part II

Off the microphones of Dmitry Orlov, Monsta & RE

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Aired on the Doomstead Diner on August 21, 2014

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Discuss this interview at the Podcast Table inside the Diner

In case you missed it, here is the first part of the Interview with Dmitry

Dmitry Orlov Part I

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SNAP to RIOT IN #ferguson,

SNAP to RIOT 2 in #ferguson,

SNAP to RIOT 3: Bring on the National Guard

In this part of the podcast, we discuss with Dmitry the issues of Supply Chains necessary to maintain our current Industrial Civilization, the possible effects of Supply Chain breakdowns, resiliency versus efficiency and how the various nations under the Soviet Union umbrella coped with the collapse of that mega-state.  Other topics include the possibilities for Near Term Human Extinction and principles underlying Sustainable Communities.

Coming soon to Diner Podcasts, a new Frostbite Falls Daily Rant on the 8th Crusade looking at the escalating assymetric warfare being pursued by the ISIS Caliphate in MENA.

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RE

American Chicken Shit Corn Smut

Off the keyboard of Lucid Dreams

Published on Epiphany Now on August 4, 2013

ninja fox

Discuss this article at the Epicurean Delights Smorgasbord inside the Diner

Corn Smut…now there is a nuanced and serendipitously generated piece of American reality. The picture at the right came from a newfangled hybrid corn that happens to be purple, and sold at Lowes, that I grew a foot away from the roost that holds fifteen chicken asses…that’s in my permaculture trailer park haven…next to the trailer park hugelmeadow that I hockity pockity wocked into existence…to hear my wife tell it. So the corn smut, that our government apparently spent “time and money trying to eradicate,” that the Mexican culture has embraced due to edibility, dubbed huitlacoche,which means something along the lines of “sleeping Raven’s excrement” (by my reading of wiki’s entry on the topic). How perfect is that for a symbol to attach to the idea that America is a terminal, end stage, cancerous growth on homo sapien culture? The melting pot of culture brewed into a homogenous retardation of all that is good about our species. Corn smut…it’s a corn tumor that enters the ovary of the plant and becomes the seed kernel itself, it’s a fungus that sends out conjugation tubes to form hypha which parasitize the corn flesh. The corn kernel becomes corn smut.
I know that this corn smut is ripe with symbolism about what has happened to our culture. Our anti-culture as I like to call it. Interestingly enough, today I read about the Roma (gypsy) culture while reading Orlov’s latest on the five stages of collapse. They live on the margins of any society, parasitizing the Gadjo (non-gypsy) culture, and they represent the best human cultural adaptation to the future we are rapidly approaching. According to Dmitry Orlov, they stand the best chance of surviving the collapsed end of this cancerous, Golden Rule smut ramification of, industrially consumptive, fossil fuel powered, cultural retardation. That is to say that the gypsy way will most probably survive the end of industrial civilization.
There is much about Roma culture that I find to be extremely fascinating. They are petty thieves who persist on tricking polite society into unwittingly supplying them with what they need to thrive. I guess they are similar to corn smut. They are also similar to the mythical trickster fox whom just takes what he needs from you via his trickery and then disappears. They hide in plain sight by hiding who they are, and they are generally considered a nuisance to those whom control the digibit levers. Sometimes it’s easier to simply deal with them by banishment, and some governments have done so. I want to join the Roma culture, but seeing as how the only way to do so is to marry in, and I’m already married, there will be no gypsy made of me. However, my wife’s avatar is “Gypsy Mama,” (over at the Doomstead Diner) and she is so gypsy like that I’m convinced she is in fact unknowingly gypsy by family lineage.
Let me give you an example of what I mean by employing my favorite medium of literary conveyance called anecdote. Today my wife rounded up a bunch of consumer shit that we’ve managed to come into possession of. We’ve come to possess all of this, mostly plastic, Chinese made, stupid shit via the usual American avenues of mindless consumption. That mindless consumption happens without our participation, and ends up being given to us due to socially mandated empty rituals like baby showers, Christmas, birthdays, and whatever other reason us Americans have to go practice consumer therapy in the box store refrigerator habitats that house humans too fat to walk. They ride motorized consumer scooters while shopping for their fat inducing coma ridden soma high petroleum corn sugared treats. So now that I’m done explaining the nature of the stupid plastic shit that my wife rounded up today, let me proceed with the promise of anecdote in the next paragraph.
Today my wife returned consumer items to retail stores for store credit. Things like the safety knobs we’ve had on our gas oven that keep our toddler from burning the house down. She tried to return a dumb ass talking potty (that my son pinched a loaf in a time or two…and maybe pissed in a few hundred times…we didn’t like the song the toilet sang was why we returned it…in perfect Gadjoesqueness)  but the new brainwashed employee refused refund, siting sanitation, (which I can’t argue with…but Wendy figures she’ll take it back again next time and hopefully the next proletariat dumb ass will acquiesce). I mean, let’s forget about the damage that said talking toilet could have potentially done to my son had I not removed the batteries within days of the toilet being brought to defecating digital madness. There it is again…defecation…sleeping Raven excrement…tied to American anti-culture. What type of culture thinks that talking toilets that congratulate your water head toddler on his stinkin’ MacDonald’s fried shit is a good idea? Ethical even? WTF? We need plastic potties manufactured on the backs of starving third world children? And my wife and I are supposed to feel badly about returning this stupid plastic shit for organic baby formula to feed our exceptional newborn?
See, I do feel badly about it when I’m with my wife as she runs these legal scams (there are many corporate store policies that include no question asked, no receipt, returns). The reasons I feel badly about the returns are due to unconscious scripts that the anti-culture I’ve been brought up in have programmed into me. Logically I get why I should not feel guilty about it, but I still do. I especially hate the looks and sounds that are directed at you from the consumer zombies who are stuck in line behind you. My wife on the other hand just feeds her baby while in line, and says things to those behind her like “sometimes you just gotta feed your baby while you return shit.” She’s unaffected by the social program that says she’s being a dishonest citizen of this FSoA (failed states of America). Today, she brought that senseless planned obsolescence back to the corporate monster that’s destroyed anything resembling a descent American culture, and she bought about three months of formula with it (don’t worry, she’s breast feeding, but Tribann requires a LOT of calories to grow his physical form, and if he doesn’t get them than stress erupts all over the place via forms like torturous eczema on my wife’s hands).
This is one of the ways we use to generate money, or the digibit credits to acquire what our family needs. We subsist on the margins of society, in a gray area, living comfortably by taking advantage of the stupid and mindless cultural taboos embraced by our consumer cult of progress anti-culture. Government grants for college, medicaid for healthcare (except for me that is…Uncle Sam will excise a chunk of my vas deferens so I can’t procreate any longer…but if I got a toothache, or a broke arm, I can go fuck myself), and a life paid for by the shadow of American waste. I’m a professional student these days. Learning how to work for the Ministry of Health. Well…learning is probably the wrong word…more like learning how to take tests (which Orlov points out in his latest book). I can take a test like a motherfucker…and on short notice.
Our just in time bull shit is about to be out of time. The writing is all over the god damned wall. Just look around outside. Look at the people you know who are a pussy hair away from economic non-person status, bankruptcy, and Limarita fueled, fermented, piss smelling destitution. I’ve got kids trying to thrive in this shit! Filled with hundreds of cancer causing chemicals en utero, usurping our women’s ovaries to become tumor like growth on the maize that supplies the feedstock for something like 70% of our human bodies on the molecular level…according to a stat I read in one of Michael Pollan’s books. We are the corn people. Warning, Big Lebowski Turrets dead ahead.
“I’ve got some corn, I’ve got some corn so big I can’t even sit down…but you know me…I can’t complain.”
“Fuckin’ A, I’ve got some corn smut man.”
Indeed dude, I’ve got some corn smut. It grew on a newfangled, probably genetically modified, Ruby Queen corn stalk just next to 15 shittin’ chicken asses in my back yard. Apparently corn smut has similar characteristics to ergot, which is associated with LSD. I don’t know…I love and cherish Mexican food and Mexican culture. Mexicans eat corn smut, or huitlacoche, and they do that because it’s edible, and the world doesn’t care about our guts. It’s practical, common sense even, and I get it.
So now that I’m done pitching my two cents into the TEOTWAWKI blogosphere I’m off to eat some huitlacoche…here’s to it’s LSD like qualities. And here’s to a new breed of post-petroleum people’s who will most probably be gypsy like, and may be found hiding in a mythical place called the Foxstead…one day. Or maybe I’ll take my wife and sons and join my uncles in SoCal, where I was hatched; who have plans to retire from the American hologram and take part in the growing sea gypsy movement. Apparently the apple don’t fall far from the genetic tree. I’ve got a sail boat going uncle, and I may buy a sail boat with my Ministry of Health money, and join him. Polar bears are floating on chunks of ice in the arctic, and sea level is rising. What better way to adapt than a gypsy sea culture subsisting on gorilla grown food? If I end up buying a sail boat…Ima name it the Gypsy Corn Smut.  I think the future is going to be something resembling Waterworld…only it’s fruition is maybe 50 to 100 years from now.

The Foxtrot Collapse

Off the keyboard of Jason Heppenstall

Published on 22 Billion Energy Slaves on June 19, 2013

salvador-dali-dance-the-seven-arts

Salvador Dali’s 1957 “Dance”

Discuss this article at the Epicurean Delights Smorgasboard inside the Diner

There’s always a lot of discussion on peak oil forums about whether the decline of industrial civilzation will take the form of a vertiginous descent, or whether it will be something long and grinding that will be measured in decades and centuries rather than years or months. In the fast-collapse camp are the likes of Dmitry Orlov (who bases his assessment on his experience of seeing the USSR implode) and Ugo Bardi, who expects a ‘Seneca’s Cliff’ dropoff. James Kunstler, Michael Ruppert and any number of others can probably also be added to the fast-collapse camp.

By comparison, the likes of John Michael Greer reckon we are in for a drawn-out era of terminal decline punctuated by serious crises which, at the time, will seem rather severe to all involved but which will give way to plateaux of relative stability, albeit at a lower level of energy throughput. At the end of this process we will be back to something resembling the Middle Ages, with smoking nuclear power plant dead-zones. His basis for this is a study of history, and in particular the work of writers such as Arnold Toynbee, Oswald Spengler and Joseph Tainter, whose books emphasised the cyclical nature of all civilizations  These, they assert, can  be seen to go progress serially through stages of ebullient expansion, cultural dynamism, acquisition  entropy, overshoot, decay and eventual collapse. Our current industrial civilization, he argues, is but the latest in a long line of civilizations shuffling slowly towards the global compost bin.

But is it? Many would argue that scale matters and that today’s too-big-to-fail hyper-complex, bisophere changing civilization is such a different kettle of fish to its predecessors that when it enters the overshoot and collapse phase, as can be observed to be happening right now, the resulting calamity will be on a scale never before seen or experienced. All buildings fall down eventually, but would you rather be standing next to a fisherman’s cottage or a skyscraper when that happens?

In addition to these criticisms, some would point out that today’s global economy, aided and abetted by instant communications, is far more prone to cascading collapses, in which one strand in the web breaking leads to the whole web being destroyed. A bank collapse in China, for example, could lead to other banks seizing up and cause commerce to freeze as notes of credit go unwritten. By comparison, a mercantile trader in 15th century Venice would not have known that the bond guaranteeing his cargo was worthless for up to several months following the bankruptcy of a creditor, and trade would have carried on as normal in the interim. Inefficient communications, in this case, meant resilience.
Anyway, all the talk about fast collapse/slow collapse can seem a bit like fiddling while Rome burns. The simple facts of the matter are that we have exhausted all of the cheap energy options available to us, which is causing the global financial system – an entirely fabricated construct that can only run on blind optimism, greed and political largesse – to exist in a state of total crisis. Virtually every large economy in the world is facing up to its own pet crisis, although the scope and nature of each one is quite different. Europe is mired in unpayable debt, the US is addicted to pumping illusory ‘money’ via the Print button on the Fed’s keyboard and is just starting to realise there is no way back down the ladder, China’s gargantuan credit bubble is deflating, Japan is playing Russian roulette, and commodity producing countries such as Brazil and Australia are reeling from lowering demand from formerly insatiable importers. This is not just part of the business cycle as most talking heads assert.
It does seem quite likely that we are facing an uber Minsky Moment – that moment where investors realise their assets are vastly over-valued and stampede for the door. But where will they stampede to? The US dollar and world stock markets look like safeish havens for the time being to many, which would explain the Dow Jones’ and FTSE’s phenomenal head-scratching rises in recent weeks. Precious metals and land are being snapped up, especially by China which wants to simultaneously dump risky American assets and build a global network of agricultural land to feed its too-late-to-the-game middle class consumers (leaving ravaged ecosystems and raging mobs of dispossessed people in their wake). It’s a game where the stakes keep getting higher and higher with every passing week.
But the planet, of which our human economy is simply one small subset of, is a complex system to say the least, and complex systems are difficult to break all in one go. That’s why in my opinion collapse will not come about in a neatly linear fashion, but will be of a stop-start nature, like a badly-maintained fairground ride with a sadistic teenage operator. Of course, when I say the word ‘collapse’ I am mostly talking about the impacts it will have on the lives of we who live in the ‘West’ – most countries and people in the world have been living with collapse for centuries. Try telling a Malawian subsistence farmer that we may be in for a bumpy ride and see how he responds.
As has been noted before, global financial collapse is likely to be the first step, and that could happen overnight. Hot on its heels will be commercial collapse and a very sustained period of, shall we say, discomfort. Political collapse, as well as the rule of law, are next up on the Magical Mystery Collapse Tour, and we can only pray that we don’t get to social collapse too soon.

But all of these will take time. There will be grey areas and stages that overlap one another. Some locations will be worse off than others that might be just down the road, and some regions and countries might get lucky and find they are suddenly in a far better position than they were previously. Indeed, the whole thing will bloom like a fractal – or should I say is blooming like a fractal because we are already several years into this adventure. Individuals, communities, families, governments, militaries, religious groups and organised crime syndicates will all have their roles to play as the game changes, and only those most able to adapt to the ever-changing circumstances, or just the downright lucky, will be in a position to see the next stage of collapse.

Some stages are likely to be faster than others. The collapse of credit availability, insurance and investor confidence will be more or less instanteous once the first big domino falls, but national currencies, cooperative arrangements and various forms of trade will no doubt linger on for some time. Commerce is complex, with some supply chains being more fragile than others, so we’re likely to see the availability of most high tech items severely curtailed, while more basic items that don’t have to be shipped halfway across the globe and rely on several hundred individual suppliers, will be available for longer. Rationing will prolong the agony and the black market will step in as people get used to the idea that things are not as they used to be.
So, for most of us I expect to see collapse happening at different rates. Sometimes they will be fast and brutal, and other times they will be slow and unnoticeable to those concerned until viewed in the rear view mirror of history. It’ll be a case of slow-slow-quick-quick-slow – which we might as well call a foxtrot collapse, after the ballroom dance with the same moves.

I’m sure that, when all is said and done, nearly all of those in the reality-based community who regularly write about peak oil, civilizational decline and environmental crisis (with the exception of the Near Term Human Extincion folks) would agree that collapse occurrs by stages and it is merely our own standpoints which determine how direcly we are affected and when. After all, a credit meltdown could seem like Armageddon to a Hong Kong banker, but would barely even register as news to someone living a sustainable life on an island in Greece. Conversely freaky weather caused by climate change could destroy the Greek islander’s livelihood, but the banker, unaware of the natural elements outside his air-conditioned trading floor, would not even notice.

Becoming aware of the proximity of the stages of collapse should be a priority for individuals and governments alike, but for a multitude of human reasons this is not the case. Nevertheless, if you’re reading this then you’re probably also one of ‘the choir’ and are acutely aware of all the mounting problems that we face. It’s a catch 22 situation, aided and abetted by most media, which are desperately blinkered when it comes to nebulous predicamants, and keen to focus on blaming individual people for their follies. Oh, and it doesn’t help shift advertising space.
So for the time being we have blogs to use as communication tools, although when they are gone one day we might be back to the days of printed mailing lists and subscriber magazines and journals. In fact, I think I’ve already come up with one …The Entropy Times – your daily dose of doom.

You heard about it here first.

***

By the way – this is my 100th post. I can’t believe I have actually got this far with this blog, and further can’t believe that there are some 10,000 page views a month (although probably at least half are robots/government spies/friends checking that I am still batty). I’m thinking about actually trying to earn a few pennies from my endeavours and writing a book, making it available to buy from this site. It already has a working title – Mind the Vortex – How to Survive the 21st Century – but I’d be interested to hear if anyone thinks this is a good idea or a bad one. With all the work I am doing over at Fox Wood (this week I dug a humungous hole by hand and cleared half an acre of brambles with a sickle) I could do with a project that doesn’t involve getting covered in mud and coming home with bleeding forearms and blistered hands.

Thanks for reading 22 Billion Energy Slaves!

Collapse Fatigue Syndrome

Off the Diner Keyboards

Discuss this article around the Kitchen Sink of the Diner

Occasionally a thread inside the Diner strikes a chord with many Diners, as is the case with the recent thread, Futile or Not, Here I Come begun by Diner Buzzard.For many of us who have been examining the Collapse for a long time, a sense of Frustration and Fatigue has set in as we wait for and expect a Collapse to occur which is more definable than just the slow deterioration of the “Long Emergency” described by Jim Kunstler.  For some, their participation in discussions about Peak Oil and its ramifications goes back to 2004-2005, when the PeakOil.com and LATOC Forums began.  For others, their expectations of a Collapse have been with them as far back as the 1960s and 1970s.  For myself, I mostly woke up to oncoming collapse with the failure of Bear Stearns in 2007, although the Katrina disaster in NOLA was probably my real wake up call.While we appear closer than ever now to true collapse of the Monetary System and Industrial Civilization, the fact it has not yet occurred systemically through all societies brings with it a sense of Futility in perpetually rehashing the same topics.  Early Forums like Peak Oil and LATOC are either very quiet now or out of publication entirely in the case of LATOC.Is there still value in discussing this collapse, when there really is not much thatcan be done to stop it?  How many times can you predict the Sky Will Fall with other Chicken Littles but never see the Sky Fall, just lower the Cloud Ceiling some?A few Diners weighed in with their thoughts on these issues, and I present a selection of them here for both Veteran Kollapsniks and Rookies alike to consider.  To read all the thoughts of the Diners, visit the  Futile or Not, Here I Come  thread ongoing around the Kitchen Sink of the Doomstead Diner.RE

 Buzzard wrote:

I’m a reader here. In fact I’m basically a reader everywhere. I am neither brilliant nor inspired. Any comments which I could make would be amateur at best. However, I do read a lot- and I get impressions. While reading back and forth in the barbeque section (I’m obviously running low on good literature) I got the sense of fatigue in those who were posting. Perhaps this is only a mirror of myself because I have been admittedly tired of the whole mess recently. [You know, the whole collapse mess?]

Although my participation has been mostly lacking, I have followed several forums for some years- in fact since the yahoo lists. So most of the posters I run into are familiar to me from ROE, Dieoff, Peakoil, LATOC etc. What I am sensing is a sort of ‘collapse fatigue’ which shows in subtle ways. Interestingly also I have watched the development of online personalities and opinions over the years. Much of it, I believe can be attributed to a maturity and wisdom grown from years of experience in the individual’s search for knowledge and truth. I know that the journey has taken me to places which I never could have predicted.

Frankly, I’m tired. Part of it could be a growing impatience, like sitting in the theater as a kid with your tub of popcorn waiting for the movie to begin. And let’s face it. I’m not getting any younger. Seventy doesn’t look that far away any more. (I can’t believe that I even wrote that). Nothing earth shaking here. I’m just curious as to what others are feeling when you strip away all of the intellectual issues and probing questions of the day. I know that I find myself backing out of ‘acceptance’ into depression again. That’s depressing. I get up and do it again- amen. Most of you are veterans of the truth wars. Is it any easier than it was ten years ago? How is the cynicism quotient?

 Golden Oxen wrote:

“Frankly, I’m tired. Part of it could be a growing impatience, like sitting in the theater as a kid with your tub of popcorn waiting for the movie to begin. And let’s face it. I’m not getting any younger. Seventy doesn’t look that far away any more. (I can’t believe that I even wrote that). Nothing earth shaking here. I’m just curious as to what others are feeling when you strip away all of the intellectual issues and probing questions of the day. I know that I find myself backing out of ‘acceptance’ into depression again. That’s depressing. I get up and do it again- amen. Most of you are veterans of the truth wars. Is it any easier than it was ten years ago? How is the cynicism quotient?”

Hi Buzzard, Tired and depressed from the whole ball of wax myself. Starting to understand why Peter, my favorite poster at DD has walked away. The more I learn here, which I tell myself is a good thing, how can learning be considered a bad thing, the more depressed I get. We are in real friggin mess, with no way out it seems, and all this seems to accomplishing very little except pointing out how bad it really is. The petty fights and bullshit don’t help either.

OWS was the only thing I have seen lately which energized me and filled me with some hope, but that has ended on a very sour and depressing note as well. Guess that’s why we hang out at the Diner. Nice to hear from you. GO

 RE wrote:

Collapse Fatigue is pandemic across the Collapse Blogosphere these days. It probably should get its own listing in the DSM-IV right next to PTSD.

The two Biggest Collapse boards in the first generation were PeakOil and LATOC. LATOC is gone completely as Matt Savinar took it offline. PeakOil has withered away and gets less daily action than we get here in the Diner.

The early and most original Bloggers like Dmitri Orlov and Jimmy Kunstler more or less have made Collapse their Bizness, and both websites are mainly venues to promote their Books and Speaking Engagements. Both are still very creative writers, but they also both recycle the same themes over and over again. Neither participates much in discussion even over on their own Blog Commentariats.

For me, Collapse remains an intriguing and ever changing sea of information to digest, and really MOST of the world still is not even AWARE of it. The Collapse Fatigue phenomenon mostly exists among people who have been aware of peak oil since at least 2007, some since as far back as 2000.

Like many Kollapsniks who have been waiting for the Sky to Fall, part of me wishes that it would just FALL already so we can get on with the next stage, whatever that might be, bad as it is likely to be. However, for anyone who has NOT yet fallen off the Economic Cliff, its a GOOD thing that Extend & Pretend has worked as long as it has. Here on the Diner, we have several people who hope for 6mo-2years more time to get their Plans/Doomsteads ready.

I guess the best way to explain how I feel about Collapse and how I avoid Collapse Fatigue is to follow Ty Webb’s advice in Caddyshack, in this case rather than “Be the Ball”, it’s “Be the Collapse”. It remains the most IMPORTANT topic of our time, and regardless how Old you might be there is still much to be learned here.

So I keep thinking about it and writing about it and discussing it with others here on the Diner. Even recycling old material is important because Newbies are always Waking Up here, more all the time. Us Old Timers should be around to fill in the Newbies and…

Save as Many as You Can

 Water Weasel wrote:

Buzzard,

and RE, it is very hard reading the news anymore when you start to see what’s going on. It’s tough to say, but, if you’re not at least a little bit depressed, you’re not paying attention. I don’t know how you can get to “acceptance” when all the time things are getting worse. I won’t say the “f” word. (*cough*futile*cough*)

Quote
I’m just curious as to what others are feeling when you strip away all of the intellectual issues and probing questions of the day
I’m feeling like I need to stock up on beer and pretzels, ’cause this is going to be the biggest train-wreck you ever did see.

I have no idea how it’s going to go down. I can only hope that I have enough of an edge to make it through the first wave. Probably not, but in that case, I take solace in living a middle-class 21st century American life, at least for a while, which is better than most humans who ever lived. I’ll continue to be a good person, and I’ll continue to try to make things better, and I hope that’s still worth something.

RE,

Quote
For me, Collapse remains an intriguing and ever changing sea of information to digest, and really MOST of the world still is not even AWARE of it.
This is really mind-boggling isn’t it? There’s some meat here that hasn’t been explored. Futilitist is interested in sociology. Maybe he could lead this thread.

But, yeah, when you see the assault on the biosphere, that we depend on for our economy as well as our very life, it’s hard not to wish for it to stop, now, no matter how hard it might be. And it looks to me like it will stop, eventually. It’s like pulling off a Band-Aid, slow, or in one go? I prefer in one go. Let’s get it over with!

But, I do love my currently comfy lifestyle, with a job and food and all. It’s a tough call.

Surly wrote:

Ah, Caddyshack.

The story of the making of this movie is well worth watching.

My face: “Heavy hitter, the Dalai Lama…”

“… he said, on my deathbed I would receive total consciousness.
So I got that goin’ for me.”

Buzzard wrote:

Quote from: WaterWeasel on Today at 01:52:42 AM

RE,

Quote
For me, Collapse remains an intriguing and ever changing sea of information to digest, and really MOST of the world still is not even AWARE of it.
This is really mind-boggling isn’t it? There’s some meat here that hasn’t been explored. Futilitist is interested in sociology. Maybe he could lead this thread.

In fact it was Futilitist’s comments which prompted this thread. I didn’t address him personally because my question was more general, a smokey malaise which had settled over me.

I am fond of telling people that I have it easy because I am old enough that I will be dead before the shit really hits the fan. I have lived an interesting and eventful life. I won’t check out thinking that I have been particularly robbed of anything. I tell people that I pity those younger who stand to live through the full monty. What will their lives be like? What I tell people sounds good. It sounds right… And it is a lie. In fact, I am jealous of the young. I am so intrigued and curious about the future that I am beginning to think that I will miss it.

I guess that is why Greer gets under my skin. I don’t want to hear ‘Catabolic Collapse’. Doesn’t he realize that we need to get on with it so that I can see what happens? It is also why “Tipping Point” resonated with me instantly. If what he says is true then it could all come down tomorrow. Now we’re talking. And… aside from my selfish desire to see how it all turns out, I also subscribe to the ‘remove the band-aide’ quickly school of collapse. It just makes sense. As Jensen says. The sooner it comes down the less the planet suffers damage from human’s hubris and greed.

I suspect the reason most of us are here is because wandering through this mansion of darkness we have noticed a room where the lights are still on. Even though it seems to me at this point that the same arguments and information gets recycled over and over, at least the truth will set you free (or piss you off, whatever the case will be).

  RE wrote:

Quote from: buzzard on Today at 04:26:04 AM
I am fond of telling people that I have it easy because I am old enough that I will be dead before the shit really hits the fan. I have lived an interesting and eventful life. I won’t check out thinking that I have been particularly robbed of anything. I tell people that I pity those younger who stand to live through the full monty. What will their lives be like? What I tell people sounds good. It sounds right… And it is a lie. In fact, I am jealous of the young. I am so intrigued and curious about the future that I am beginning to think that I will miss it.

With this paragraph BY ITSELF you undermined your own initial argument that you are not a thinker who has something to say. You clearly do. I think you just have spent more time reading than most and have not felt it necessary to express your own opinions, Now you do. All to the good there.

I feel much the same in the sense that I had it good, if it all goes to hell in a handbasket tomorrow I lived a pretty good life in the Age of Oil. I certainly already lived longer than the average H-G lives, if you make it to 50 in that type of life you are OLD.

I am NOT nearly so old as some here though, I am pretty sure some of our Gold Bugs are well into their 70s actually. LOL. These folks have little to worry about, they don’t have all that much time left under the best of circumstances.

The folks who really got stuff to deal with are those in their 30s and 40s, particularly if they have dependent children. However, few of that demographic are here on the Diner as of yet. Mostly Old Dudes and some younger unmarrieds, though there are a few here with kids also.

In one sese, it would be EXCITING to be young again and preparing for the world as it is to be. I also am in a sense JEALOUS of younger folks, I WISH I was 30-something again with all my physical strength and speed to go out into the Bush and make my go of it there. What an ADVENTURE!

In reality though, I HAD my Adventure already, it was the adventure of a life lived in the culminating years of the Age of Oil. It was a FUN adventure. I lived a pretty good life, and I learned a lot. What else are you here for anyhow, besides eating and breathing? You learn stuff. Then you pass on what you learned to the Young ‘uns. That is the course of life, eh?

Now we have a bit of time left here to chat up on the internet how to negotiate the most amazing spin down of Human Civilization in all of recorded History. Us Old Folks won’t be around too much longer, but we still can pass on some knowledge and observe the end, until at last we each buy our Final Ticket to the Great Beyond.

RE

…Read the rest with the Diners around the Kitchen Sink of the Doomstead Diner

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