AuthorTopic: This is sub-categor on Knarf's news channel, "Hot Pursuit of T6thME Spread"  (Read 1683 times)

Offline knarf

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Here I and hopefully you will investigate how the announcement in early July, that we are IN the midst of a mass extinction right now. I want to find as many paths that this leads to, throughout the world. It is just beginning to spread, so keep those eyes "peeled".
 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 12:11:26 PM by knarf »
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6thME - Destroying the Society...
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2017, 12:12:47 PM »
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 01:18:14 PM by knarf »
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6thME - Seed Bank in Hawai’i Protects Native Plants
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2017, 12:19:00 PM »
Seed bank safeguards native Hawaiian plants.

With the influx of people to islands comes the spread of weeds, pests, and disease. Such introductions have contributed to the demise of over 130 plants species in Hawai’i. More than 40 percent of all Endangered and Threatened plants in the United States can be found in Hawaii.

The National Tropical Botanical Garden (NTBG) took initiative by collecting seeds as a security measure in the event of extinction. The seed bank is located on Kaua’i in the Juliet Rice Wichman Research Center, a state-of-the-art facility with LEED certification. To date, 3 million seeds are stored in the NTBG seed bank, with over 97 percent coming from native Hawaiian plants. These seeds will ensure that Hawaiian plants will exist in the future, even if they are driven to extinction in the wild.


Some of the plants grown at the nursery are planted at National Tropical Botanical Garden’s 1,000-acre Limahuli preserve.

In fact, some seeds in the bank are from plants already Extinct on the island. The native Kadua haupuensis has been driven to extinction by invasive pigs and goats, however their seeds are stored in NTBG. If their natural habitat is restored, Kadua haupuensis will return from extinction one day.

NTBG enlists volunteers and botanists to collect seeds. These individuals go to great lengths to obtain seeds of vulnerable plants, sometimes even scaling cliff faces or jumping out of helicopters to find Hawai’i’s rare plants.

Some seeds are stored, while others are planted in NTBG nurseries so that more seeds can be cultivated. The seeds collected from the sprouting plants in NTBG are either added to the standing collection, or undergo experiments exploring methods for seed storage and maximum storage period before the seeds decay.

Experiments will only be conducted if more than 100 seeds are available for a given plant. Dustin Wolkis, the seed bank manager at NTBG, affirms:

    Seeds are living things and they have an expiration date just like all other living things. It’s my job to figure out what that expiration date it and push back.

There are two ways to extend a seeds life: drying or freezing. Wolkis’ experiments in seed conservation biology test the limits of seeds. Seed storage analysis first involves slightly drying the seeds. Then they are laid on a petri dish and put into germination chambers, where scientists can control the amount of temperature and light the seeds receive. If the seed begins to sprout, the scientists know that the conditions promote growth. This process is repeated until the seed doesn’t sprout, to determine the maximum range of conditions the seed can tolerate.

If a seed can tolerate drying, it is further tested to determine if it can withstand freezing. A seed is sealed in an aluminum foil pack in a negative 4-degree Fahrenheit (negative 20-degree Celsius) chamber for 3 months, after which it will enter the germination chamber again to see if it survived. A negative 112-degree Fahrenheit (negative 80-degree Celsius) chamber is also available for further testing.

Typically, thicker seeds are more likely to survive the drying and freezing processes, and are therefore easier to store. Seeds that are less sturdy don’t survive the freezing process because moisture in the seeds turns into ice crystals, which prove to be lethal.

Seeds that can withstand freezing are taken out of the freezer in yearly increments, starting with two years, then five years, then 10 years, for routine testing to ensure the seeds are still viable.

Wolkis wants to begin experimenting with liquid Nitrogen. At negative 321-degrees Fahrenheit (negative 321-degree Celsius), the moisture in the seeds wouldn’t have time to form ice. This would resolve the freezing problem for less sturdy seeds, ensuring that all of Hawai’i’s native plants will be safeguarded until their natural habitat is restored.

https://www.islandconservation.org/native-hawaiian-seed-bank/
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 01:18:48 PM by knarf »
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Offline knarf

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6thME - Averting mass extinction
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2017, 12:26:10 PM »
For millions of years, Australia had no human inhabitants. When people finally arrived there some 45,000 years ago, the continent had 24 different creatures weighing 100 pounds or more. Within a few millennia, 23 were wiped out.

In his book “Sapiens,” Yuval Noah Harari notes: “Long before the Industrial Revolution, Homo Sapiens held the record among all organisms for driving the most plant and animal species to their extinction. We have the dubious distinction of being the deadliest species in the annals of biology.”

From all indications, we are not about to be dethroned. A new study published in a journal of the National Academy of Sciences says nearly 200 species have vanished in the past century, and 9,000 have seen substantial reductions in their numbers. Only 7,000 cheetahs are left, and the population of West African lions is down to 400. Scientists suggest that Earth is well into the sixth mass extinction of the last half-billion years.

Humans are good at finding ways to protect the environment and our fellow creatures when the need is there. When the federal Wilderness Act was passed in 1964, it designated 9 million acres of land as wilderness. Today, we have nearly 110 million acres that provide unspoiled habitat for innumerable species.

Other federal lands such as national parks and forests are also protected from most forms of development — amounting to more than one-seventh of all the land in the country. Neighboring residents have learned that they can profit from tourists who come to hike remote woodland trails and see grizzly bears, eagles and wolves. All this is the fruit of prosperity, not poverty.

Namibia has boosted the number of black rhinoceroses, once down to six, to more than 1,400, reports NPR, while doubling the numbers of both cheetahs and elephants. It has also virtually eliminated poaching. How? By enabling communities to establish conservation areas and administer them in ways that benefit the people living there.

The report provides a sobering picture of how much irreversible damage could be done to worldwide biological diversity. Unlike other creatures, humans can consciously shape the future for generations to come. We should use ingenuity for the benefit of the countless creatures with which we share the Earth. That would also be good for our species.

— Chicago Tribune

« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 01:19:23 PM by knarf »
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6thME- avianflu.com reaction
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2017, 12:40:17 PM »
"ARTICLE" post

reactions

 Lucky we have an administration that cares...


"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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  Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2017 at 11:01am
Yep! Clown
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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  Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2017 at 12:04pm
I'd laugh, but, you know... Angry


"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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  Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2017 at 2:59pm
i worry for my Grandkids..............Unhappy
12 monkeys!!!!!
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  Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2017 at 10:34pm
I worry for our kids, carbon.



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"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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  Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2017 at 11:31pm
Paul Beckwith is one of many scientists who has been warning of the effects climate change has on life on earth for years. In 2006 came [url=https://www.algore.com/library/an-inconvenient-truth-dvd.]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfDxT7sjCFQ[//url] Paul Beckwith is one of many scientists who has been warning of the effects climate change has on life on earth for years. In 2006 came [url]https://www.algore.com/library/an-inconvenient-truth-dvd.]https://www.algore.com/library/an-inconvenient-truth-dvd.]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfDxT7sjCFQ[//url] Paul Beckwith is one of many scientists who has been warning of the effects climate change has on life on earth for years. In 2006 came [url]https://www.algore.com/library/an-inconvenient-truth-dvd. But warnings for climatechange go back to 1847 !

The sixth mass extinction is happening NOW ! Not in the IPCC 2100 scenario, not a problem for when (grand)children are grown-ups, but we are already in the middle of it !

https://www.facebook.com/JoseBarbaNueva?fref=nf&pnref=story Joe Neubarth is following (a.o.) the methane release in the Arctic. Water vapor and methane are driving the abrupt climate change we are in now.

http://arctic-news.blogspot.nl/2017/05/abrupt-warming-how-much-and-how-fast.html Sam Carana comes with his calculations of over 10 degrees Celsius temperature rise in the coming 10 years. Both Joe Neubarth and Sam Carana (and many others, Guy McPherson etc) have a very good story in wich they warn that humans may have only a few years left.

I am not a scientist. But I do think radical changes MUST be made NOW ! Maybe those changes can slow down climate change enough to buy us time to avoid "end of live".

I expect mass media will be confronted with stories off floodings, wildfires, extreme heat, food crisis etc. more and more and more. Even trump will wake up one day to see there is a very big problem.


Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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  Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 1:01am
EPA chief wants his useless climate change 'debate' televised, and I need a drink


https://www.yahoo.com/news/epa-chief-wants-useless-climate-224316151.html


Trump=the WRONG person ,at the WRONG time,in the WRONG job


let him go back to cheating carpenters,painters and carpet layers and taking Russian mob money


he may very well have SEALED our fate
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  Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 3:15am
JD, Carbon - I worry for me. Exclamation
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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  Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 3:21am
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/18/climate/antarctica-ice-melt-climate-change.html

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140302-melting-ice-may-be-making-mountains-collapse-in-greenland/#.WWVnbxhG1-g.facebook

The sixth-mas-extinction-event is NOW and HERE. It should be the main news-top priority.

What amazes me most that it is not top news. We have ruined our only planet and are making selfies of it; are we all crazy ?
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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  Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 3:55am
The Larson  C ice shelf just calved an enormous iceberg.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/12/giant-antarctic-iceberg-breaks-free-of-larsen-c-ice-shelf


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  Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 5:08am
https://robertscribbler.com/2017/07/11/antarcticas-4th-largest-ice-shelf-is-about-to-melt-back-to-its-smallest-area-ever-recorded/ with good info in the comments.

On the Guardian article; I understand mass-media do not want to be blamed for creating mass-panic. But (Ant)Arctic ice melting on this scale is a gigantic problem.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/what-mass-extinctions-teach-us-about-climate-change-today.html?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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  Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 8:48am
Giant iceberg splits from Antarctic

One of the biggest icebergs ever recorded has just broken away from Antarctica.

The giant block is estimated to cover an area of roughly 6,000 sq km; that's about a quarter the size of Wales.

An US satellite observed the berg on Wednesday while passing over a region known as the Larsen C Ice Shelf.

Scientists were expecting it. They'd been following the development of a large crack in Larsen's ice for more than a decade.

The rift's propagation had accelerated since 2014, making an imminent calving ever more likely.




The more than 200m-thick tabular berg will not move very far, very fast in the short term. But it will need to be monitored. Currents and winds might eventually push it north of the Antarctic where it could become a hazard to shipping.

An infrared sensor on the American space agency's Aqua satellite spied clear water in the rift between the shelf and the berg on Wednesday. The water is warmer relative to the surrounding ice and air - both of which are sub-zero.

"The rift was barely visible in these data in recent weeks, but the signature is so clear now that it must have opened considerably along its whole length," explained Prof Adrian Luckman, whose Project Midas at Swansea University has followed the berg's evolution most closely.

The event was confirmed by other spacecraft such as Europe's Sentinel-1 satellite-radar system.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40321674
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  Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 8:56am
A planet devastated by climate change may seem like a distant future. But Earth is already experiencing the effects of rising global temperatures today.

Worldwide, the mean rate of sea level rise increased 50% in the last two decades. In 2017, temperatures have already reached their highest levels in history in some areas, from California to Vietnam. The past three years were the hottest on record.

These changes are caused by increasing levels of carbon dioxide and methane in the Earth's atmosphere, a product of human activity. And as New York Magazine's David Wallace-Wells recently noted, no single emissions reduction program we have today is enough to prevent climate disaster — not even the Paris agreement.

Even if every signatory country in the accord meets its current pledge for reducing emissions — including the US, though Trump has pledged to pull the country out of the agreement — the world is still projected to warm over 2 degrees Celsius by 2050. The Paris agreement points out this reality in a section titled, "Notes with concern."

Two degrees may not seem like much, but the rise would have substantial impacts. Scientists say that places that supply the world's food, including Southern Europe and much of the Middle East, Australia, Africa, South America, and China, would be in permanent, extreme drought by 2080. Flooding would become a serious issue near the coasts, where a third of the world's major cities are located, since sea levels are projected to rise by at least 10 feet by the end of the century.


Even if every country on the planet cuts emissions, the climate would still be screwed
Experts also warn that if the Arctic ice continues to melt, ancient diseases trapped in glaciers could get released. Plus, the world would face the extinction of many animal species and rising human mortality.

The planet has already warmed nearly 1 degree Celsius, and James Hansen, a renowned climate scientist at Columbia University, suggested in a recent paper that keeping global warming below 1.5 degrees is nearly impossible. Hansen suggested that hitting the goal would require negative emissions levels, which would mean capturing carbon and taking it out of the atmosphere.

To make matters worse, our best protection against the effects of rising carbon dioxide levels comes from so-called "carbon sinks" — patches of land and ocean that absorb large chunks of the carbon dioxide we pump into the atmosphere. But now those sinks may be at capacity, prompting the Earth to continue cooking even as emissions get curbed.

In a recent open letter, six prominent scientists and diplomats, including former UN climate chief Christiana Figueres and physicist Stefan Rahmstorf, wrote that the world has approximately three years before the worst effects of climate change take hold.

Published June 28, the letter urges governments, businesses, scientists, and citizens to address the world's greenhouse-gas emissions now. If emissions can be permanently lowered by 2020, they wrote, global temperatures will likely avoid reaching that irreversible threshold.

In the letter, the scientists propose six goals to hit by 2020:
• Increase renewable energy to 30% of electricity use.
• Draft plans for cities and states to ditch fossil fuel energy by 2050, with funding of $300 billion annually.
• Ensure 15% of all new vehicles sold are electric.
• Cut net emissions from deforestation.
• Publish plan for halving emissions from deforestation well before 2050.
• Encourage the financial sector to issue more "green bonds" toward climate-mitigation efforts.

But those aims are at odds with the priorities of the Trump administration, which has signaled that climate change mitigation is not on its agenda. Because of that conflict, the authors call for US cities and businesses to fight emissions and meet the Paris accord goals without the help of the federal government.

"We stand at the doorway of being able to bend the emissions curve downwards by 2020, as science demands, in protection of the UN sustainable development goals, and in particular the eradication of extreme poverty," Figueres said in a press release.

"This monumental challenge coincides with an unprecedented openness to self-challenge on the part of sub-national governments inside the US, governments at all levels outside the US, and of the private sector in general. The opportunity given to us over the next three years is unique in history."

Wallace-Wells emphasized in his recent New York Magazine piece that an enormous effort from the world's governments and citizens is crucial for staving off the worst effects of climate change. Whether the world will succeed in addressing emissions in a serious way, however, remains to be seen.


http://www.businessinsider.com/emissions-cuts-not-enough-climate-change-2017-7
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  Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 9:51am
plenty of VERY dire predictions from people like McPherson and associates

one thing I am watching closely is food production

when you see falling production of the major grains eg. corn,wheat and rice
then it is past time to hit the panic button

McPherson predicts the end of humanity within 10 years or so
IF true
we're not going to get to year 9,day 364 and then the next day 7 billion people suddenly drop dead

LONG before that happens a LOT of very bad stuff has to happen
the dieoff  as predicted by McPherson is going to be gradual
culminating in eventual extinction

WATCH FOOD PRODUCTION
“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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  Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 12:31pm
Extreme Weather Takes A Toll On Wheat Harvests. Climate Change Will Make It Worse.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/climate-change-wheat_us_59663fece4b03f144e2fc6ff?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009


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  Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 2:29pm
Climate change is the biggest challage Mankind has ever  faced,

and most dont believe its Happening RIGHT NOW before our eyes,

when Koyoto agreement signed i thought "HOW DO I REDUCE MY CARBON USAGE BY 50%"

answer stay at home 3 1/2 days a week and do nothing not even turn a light on ,cook,flush Lavatory

this is the reality,well as i see it

so we screwed..........
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  Quote Diligent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 5:09pm
Just keep an eye on Fukushima because it is still a very bad situation.

Diligent


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  Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 6:16pm
Pruitt blasts Europe, Merkel for ‘hypocrisy’ on climate

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/12/pruitt-climate-hypocrisy-merkel-europe-240479


MORE fail on the part of the Trump administration


big surpriseDead
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  Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2017 at 10:54pm
Another story: http://www.newsprepper.com/warning-california-volcano-ready-blow-lond-valley-volcano-scientists-warning/ and http://www.newsprepper.com/breaking-russian-researchers-warn-megaquake-will-rip-america/

A series of very large quakes/volcanic eruptions in "the wrong place" (Japan, California a.o.) could do so much damage the global economy could collapse.

Most scientists did not expect the 2011 M9 Japan quake to be possible. An M10 quake may be possible every 100/400 years according to some models. https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/questions/875/are-richter-magnitude-10-earthquakes-possible.
(For Japan) once every 100.000 years an M10 could be possible http://enenews.com/kyodo-m10-quake-possible-says-study-an-hour-of-shaking-tsunami-lasting-for-several-days and http://enenews.com/asahi-japan-should-be-prepared-for-possibility-of-m10-quake-days-of-tsunamis-only-1-magnitude-below-asteroid-strike-video

Supervolcanos and mega-quakes DO mix. Climate change is a very major problem but "violent earth" can cause the sixth mass extinction, meteoritesstrike can. A global civil war can do so much damage humans will not survive it. (The 30 year war 1618-1648 killed 30% of the German population, the Korean war 1950-53 did see 15% of North Koreans killed. Even in Roman times wars could do so much damage that vast areas of land became unliveble due to lack of watersupplies, infrastructure.)
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !

 Yes Fukushima still throwing out Millions of Rads ,everyday ,who Knows what damage on a cellular level

thats doing not only to Humans, but to the wildlife,

i expecting Goddizzila to pop out of the Ocean ,

sorry if that seems a little Light hearted ,

but i am serious.......
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  Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2017 at 10:33pm
https://paulbeckwith.net/2017/07/14/abrupt-climate-mayhem-now-in-spite-of-main-stream-climatologist-posturing/ Paul Beckwith getting angry about scientists with all the pieces of the puzzle refusing to do their job.

http://arctic-news.blogspot.nl/2017/07/wildfires.html

Of course less pressure from land-ice on Greenland and Antarctica means that that landmass will rise up-causing seismicpressure. Under Antarctica-proberbly also Greenland-may be volcanic areas that will get more active causing (sharp) increase in melt.

In a worse case scenario sealevelrise globally could be "significant" in 24 hours after a major volcanic eruption in those areas. Glaciers/iceplates giving way will mean more landice moving faster into the ocean.

Most nuclear reactors-needing cooling water-will get effected by climate change (drought=lack of cooling=fire, flooding=faillure of cooling mechanisms, radiation leak).

I do not want to think to much about the future-lets enjoy the present !
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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  Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2017 at 9:20pm
Guys it is all due to too many people. Climate change and the rest of it is due to too many people. If we had a killer flu or something like that the world would be just fine.

I look at electric cars that are good for the environment and that electricity has to come from somewhere...coal, nuke, gas. Wind would be the only eclectic power that is clean and there is not enough of that.

So until we kill a bunch of people all over the world we will have problems.
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  Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2017 at 2:19am
Exactly!

Earth can, and does, heal from most things we do.  The big problems come from our numbers: it just can't heal fast enough.

We really do need a seriously nasty flu though.  There are about ten time as many of us as this planet can take.  It would have been better had we kept our numbers down by not breeding so much, by far the kinder option.  But, as we are not that smart, we can either die in huge numbers, ................................................... or die out.

What a stupid, unpleasant species we are.
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  Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2017 at 5:12am
Most of the enviromental damage is done by a small group. About 10% of the people can be blamed for 90% of the damage. So it is a small group of people flying a lot, making a lot of miles in dirty cars, eating a lot of meat etc....that need to change their habbits !

We do not need flu, or IS, or anything else drastic to spread dead and destruction ! Just common sense can do most !

Personaly I feel that keeping the number of children limited is taking responsibility for their future. When you want to have children (and can get them) they deserve the best.
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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  Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2017 at 4:25pm
to much carbon in the atmosphere,is the problem,

all the worlds GREATEST minds should be put together ,

in  the desert somewhere maybe in the Middle of Australia ,we could call it

"Save Manhatten Project"

my point is they did it to produce a weapon that kills 100,000s

so instead of writing books on Quantum this or that  which wont mean jacks...t if the planet is unliveable get on with saving the planet we all call home ,

ill kick it off ,how about venting the Co2 into space theres a great big vacume cleaner out there

a ring of satalites with graphene tubes that suck out the CO2 and vent it into space.....

or maybe we should just grow more trees ,and stop mining the dead forrests for fuel.....





 


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  Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2017 at 5:45pm
Earth could become ‘practically ungovernable’ if sea levels keep rising, says former Nasa climate chief

Professor Jim Hansen says a carbon tax in which the proceeds were given to the public would leave the poorest 70 per cent better off

    Ian Johnston Environment Correspondent
    @montaukian
    2 days ago

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The Independent Online
web-miami-aerial-get.jpgLow-lying Miami is particularly prone to flooding Getty

The Earth could become “practically ungovernable” because of sea level rise, Nasa’s former head of climate research, Professor James Hansen, has warned.

Professor Hansen, who was among the first scientists to alert politicians and the public to the risks posed by climate change, told New York Magazine that he doubted the atmosphere would warm by four or five degrees Celsius by the end of this century – the upper end of current projections, which would likely end human civilisation as we know it.

However he said the biggest problem would be sea level rise. Professor Hanson was an author of a scientific paper published last year which warned that continued high fossil fuel emissions could increase sea levels by “several meters over a timescale of 50 to 150 years”.

    READ MORE

Climate change doomsday warning of death smog and endless war attacked

This is significantly higher than the latest expert report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which forecast a range from about 30cm to just under a metre, depending on emissions.

Asked to consider what the world would be like if the “scarier” projections of climate change for the end of the century became reality, Professor Hansen, former director of the Nasa Goddard Institute for Space Studies, said: “I don’t think we’re going to get four or five degrees this century, because we get a cooling effect from the melting ice. But the biggest effect will be that melting ice.

“In my opinion that’s the big thing – sea-level rise – because we have such a large fraction of people on coastlines, more than half of the large cities in the world are on coastlines.

“The economic implications of that, and the migrations and the social effects of migrations … the planet could become practically ungovernable, it seems to me.
READ MORE

    Sea levels are rising three times faster than in 1990, find scientists
    Coral reefs 'can't grow fast enough to keep pace with rising seas'
    Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate could be flooded due to climate change
    Millions of Europeans 'face being flooded out their homes every year'

“Once sea levels go up significantly, you won’t have stable shorelines. Just parts of the city will go under water, but then it doesn’t make sense to continue to build there … By the time you get to even one-meter rise, you’re going to be losing more land.”

The growing human population was a "problem", he said.

“That’s why you want to have energy that’s needed for people to eliminate poverty, because countries that have become wealthy have the population under control. But if you do begin to lose major cities [then] the planet becomes ungovernable,” Professor Hansen said.

But if the world did reach four or five degrees, the scientist said this would mean “the tropics and the subtropics are going to be practically uninhabitable”.

“It’s already becoming uncomfortable in the summers, in the subtropics, you can’t work outdoors. And agriculture, more than half of the jobs are outdoors,” he said.
Science news in pictures

    He also reiterated the argument in favour of a carbon tax in which the proceeds were given back to the public – creating a windfall for more than two-thirds of the population.“If you made the price of fossil fuels honest by including a gradually rising carbon fee, then it actually spurs the economy and increases the GNP as you shift toward clean energies and energy efficiency. It creates potentially millions of jobs,” Professor Hansen said.“The way to spur the economy – to modernise the economy and modernise the energy structure – would be to give the money back to the public because a carbon fee is a progressive tax, in the sense that rich people have bigger carbon footprints.“So if you do give 100 per cent of the money to the public, 70 per cent of the public comes out ahead.”

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  Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2017 at 7:47am
Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

Guys it is all due to too many people. Climate change and the rest of it is due to too many people.


Yep - it's us. It'd nice to think that we'll wise up in time and see we're on a crash course with a destiny we're not going to like, but apparently a large brain doesn't automatically endow a species with the capacity to act responsibly - not at first anyway. I fully expect our actions and apparent lack of foresight to result in a global human die-off like no other we've ever seen if mankind don't get past the self-destructive, petulant child stage, and fast.

The ironic thing is that we know all about the importance of properly controlling animal populations - with one glaring exception. As China has found out, simply limiting the number of children after the fact doesn't work because you end up with an aging population supported by a much smaller and younger workforce. Dubbed "The Gray Wall Of China", it's a demographic crisis that initially addressed the issue of population growth, but brings with it a whole host of potentially insurmountable problems. We're probably not going to like what awaits us, especially as much of it will be our fault.

FluMom is right - the harsh truth is that depopulation has to occur across the board to maintain a healthy ratio of age ranges within a species. On the plus side, as Techno pointed out, the planet will heal itself just fine despite our best efforts to screw it up. In a couple of million years, the damage we've caused will have been erased from the face of the Earth.












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  Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2017 at 8:36am
That is exactly how I see it JD and FluMom. 

Hopefully we will make some robots to deal with our grey wall.  Even if not, then the grey wall would still be the better option.  Poor care in old age - VS - not reaching old age, ....... or even middle age.  China may still have some problems, (who doesn't?) but their economy is booming, their society is progressing, albeit slowly, and their people seem optimistic and reasonably happy.

I know which senario I prefer.
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  Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2017 at 9:22am
That brings with it another conundrum - what do we do, if and when we develop mechanization to the point where robots can replace just about every worker? Automation has already been the death of many jobs associated with manufacturing. It sounds like a utopia, but it could go either way.

And the prospect of smart AI quite frankly scares the crap out of me. How would a machine with an IQ in the thousands or higher, view it's far more stupid squishy creators?




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  Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2017 at 11:27am
Yes, new problems.

Robots do not need to be that bright.  They already build cars, run diagnostics for more systems than I can count and replace us is loads of jobs. AI may be coming but it still has a huge way to go (thank God!) they are fast but thick now.  Most nursing of the elderly is fairly simple stuff.  Washing, cooking, doing the laundry, doing the washing, walking the companion dog/cat.  The care workers who today travel around to do those things would just need to travel around checking the programs were appropriate and that the robot functioned ok.

Stealing our jobs? - Tax them, just like other workers.  If a robot makes $20k for the company per year, take $5k.  Use that money to fund welfare, medicaid and give grants to start new businesses and the like.  People can always invent new jobs to fill their days. Art, crafts, rescearch, space expansion, or even "Big Brother" if that floats their boat.

Being us, we will probably mess that up in some spectacular way too.  But, that does not need to be the case.  We just need a visionary like Steve Jobbs or Werner Von Braun to move into No10 here or The White House there. 

Sadly, assuming we survive the heat, sulphur, drowning, methane, unbreathable air, war, famine, hurricanes, acidification of the oceans and the spread of the plagues, I fully expect the rise of the machines, grey goo or the new Luddites.  Keep on fighting folks.  Not everyone is stupid or blind, just most.
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  Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2017 at 2:02pm
Research Team Slams Global Warming Data In New Report: “Not A Valid Representation Of Reality… Totally Inconsistent With Credible Temperature Data”


http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/research-team-slams-global-warming-data-in-new-report-not-a-valid-representation-of-reality-totally-inconsistent-with-credible-temperature-data_07142017


this is above my pay grade

anyone know anything about it ?


and meanwhile

the ice continues to melt.....
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  Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2017 at 2:48pm
Terminator......funny how SF movies give us an insight to what might be.....

How about a mix of 12 Monkeys and the Terminator,where the AI develops and releases a very nasty Virus......

Leaves earth free of it's human infestation.......

12 monkeys!!!!!
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  Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2017 at 4:17pm
Whereas there was some real science in that report, Satori, the conclusions reached ignored most of it.  To paraphrase the guy who never made it to president, all the inconvenient bits were ignored.  For instance; the Met Office data: did show lower overall temperatures - but it also showed the same increasing temperature pattern the report denies.

I looked up the researchers who compiled the report.

Dr. James P. Wallace III appears to be something of a pariah in scientific circles

Dr. Joseph S. D’Aleo Is a weatherman and as such must know something about the subject, however, everything I found about him, was written by him.  That does not give me much faith in his conclusions.

Dr. Craig D. Idso appears to have his research funded by Exon.  If that is not enough to judge his bias, then consider his most famous quote: "CO2 is not a polutant."  (In chemistry circles it is considered a toxin and a COT gas.)

None of them has claimed the Earth is flat, YET, just give them time.  That these idiots, liars, self publicists and pseudo-scientists (IMHO) still get quoted just proves how stupid our species really is.

It is true that the whole climate picture is massively complicated.  I am not sure the opposite arguments are wholly true either.  However, the weight of data and the collective of real scientific opinion does show an upward trend, which we contribute massively to.  How far this will go, how much damage will be done, whether or not we can mitigate it and whether or not it will kill all of us or just most is still to be shown.
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  Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2017 at 9:37pm
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-07-16/elon-musk-artificial-intelligence-is-the-biggest-risk-that-we-face-as-a-civilization



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  Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2017 at 2:35pm
Energy and Environment
Climate change will force today’s kids to pay for costly carbon removal technologies, study says
By Chelsea Harvey July 19 at 8:28 AM

New research suggests that if immediate and significant emissions reduction efforts are undertaken — amounting to a decline in global carbon output by at least 3 percent annually starting in the next four years — then less carbon extraction will be needed. (Martin Meissner/AP)

The longer humans continue to pour carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, the closer we draw to leaving the next generation with an unmanageable climate problem, scientists say. A new study, just out Tuesday in the journal Earth System Dynamics, suggests that merely reducing greenhouse gas emissions may no longer be enough — and that special technology, aimed at removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, may also be necessary to keep the Earth’s climate within safe limits for future generations.

The research was largely inspired by a landmark climate change lawsuit brought by 21 children against the federal government, which is scheduled to go to trial in February 2018, and will be used as scientific support in the case. In fact, its lead author, Columbia University climatologist and former NASA scientist James Hansen, is a plaintiff on the case, along with his now 18-year-old granddaughter.

The new paper argues that the Paris Agreement’s target of keeping global temperatures within 1.5 to 2 degrees Celsius (2.7 to 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) of their preindustrial levels isn’t strong enough. During a previous warm period in the Earth’s history, known as the Eemian, or the last interglacial period, the planet experienced similar levels of warming, the authors note — and the resulting consequences included the disintegration of ice sheets and six to nine meters of sea level rise.
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Noting the dramatic changes that occurred during the last interglacial period, the paper calls for a more stringent target of bringing atmospheric carbon dioxide levels down from their current concentration of more than 400 parts per million to about 350 parts per million by the end of the century. This would bring global temperature closer to a 1-degree threshold, rather than 1.5 or 2 degrees, the authors say.

But the study has already come in from some criticism from other scientists, such as Kevin Trenberth of the National Center for Atmospheric Research, who told The Washington Post that some aspects of the study were “alarmist” and that if changes come slowly enough, society will be able to adapt to them. Trenberth said he disagreed that the 1 degree target is justified and thinks that even 1.5 degrees is “unrealistic.”

Hansen is no stranger to controversy. In 2015, he and more than a dozen colleagues published a highly contested paper in the open-access journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics, suggesting that sea level rise may occur more rapidly in this century than previously predicted by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
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In the new study, the researchers suggest that allowing temperatures to creep into the Eemian range once again could eventually trigger the onset of certain slow-developing climate processes that may ultimately enhance global warming, once again inducing catastrophic ice melt, sea level rise and other harmful climate effects. For instance, continued loss of ice may reduce the Earth’s reflectivity, they suggest, allowing more solar radiation to warm the planet’s surface and melt more ice.

But to keep temperatures lower, the paper finds, would require not only significant emissions reductions efforts, but also the use of “negative emissions” technology, or special methods for pulling carbon dioxide back out of the atmosphere.

Using models, the researchers suggest that if immediate and significant emissions reduction efforts are undertaken — amounting to a decline in global carbon output by at least 3 percent annually starting in the next four years — then less carbon extraction will be needed. A majority of it could be accomplished through basic changes in agricultural and forestry practices to promote greater storage of carbon in vegetation and soil.

On the other hand, the longer global greenhouse gas emissions are allowed to remain at high levels, the more carbon extraction will be needed to reach this target, requiring additional, costlier forms of technology. These may include the burning of biomass for energy, accompanied with carbon capture and storage technology, or technology that directly sucks carbon dioxide out of the air.

If humans immediately began reducing global greenhouse gas emissions by a relatively high rate of 6 percent each year, the researchers estimate that the carbon extraction technology needed to get down to 350 parts per million could cost anywhere from $8 trillion to nearly $18.5 trillion. And if no emissions reductions occur, these costs could rise above $500 trillion through the end of the century.

“Some consequences [of climate change] are already becoming inevitable, but as yet it could be moderate if we begin to reduce emissions rapidly,” Hansen said. “So that’s the objective — to try to get the global community to understand the importance of beginning those emissions reductions soon, and keeping the task that we’re leaving for young people one that they can manage.”

But Trenberth said of the paper that while “it is a good point that some slow feedbacks do not kick in until temperatures have been sustained at a certain level,” a great deal of the future human experience with climate change will depend not only on which thresholds we cross, but how quickly we cross them.

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“If we can slow things down then a lot of adaptation can occur,” he said.

Other researchers are a little more cautiously accepting of the paper’s points.

Cristian Proistosescu, a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Washington who was not involved with the new research (but who recently led a major study, himself, on the potential future impact of slow-developing climate modes) expressed some skepticism about using the Earth’s ancient history as an analogy for the future.

He noted that some of the conditions that were true during the Eemian — the existence of large ice sheets that have already disappeared, for instance — are not the same now. And because humans have not been around to witness some of the slow-developing climate processes that scientists fear will intensify in the future, there’s uncertainty about how and even whether they will affect future climate change.

“But that would be the wrong way to think about it,” he added in an email to The Post. “The more important point is that we cannot rule out the very real probability that there are slow feedbacks — and risk is probability times cost. … Once you start thinking in terms of risks I would concur with Dr. Hansen that the current trajectory presents some unacceptable risks.”
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  Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2017 at 11:47pm
http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/07/13/analysis/these-missing-charts-may-change-way-you-think-about-fossil-fuel-addiction

The use of fossil fuel is still increasing-even faster than before. So CO2 will keep going up, oceans can not absorp much more....
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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  Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2017 at 9:20am
I'm literally at the point where I think climate change mitigation should be part of any serious prepper's long term preps. I think a world far different from ours is an unavoidable future in the next few decades, and you should realistically plan for it. Picking the right place to be is going to be the trick though - get out that crystal ball, and good luck.


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  Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2017 at 2:40pm
Of course he did: Trump picked climate science denier for Ag Department's top science post

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/20/1682393/-Of-course-he-did-Trump-picks-climate-science-denier-for-Ag-Department-s-top-science-post

Trump going out of his way to appoint the worst people possible to every post in his failed administration
and doing everything he can to speed up the 6th extinction

IDIOT
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  Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2017 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

I'm literally at the point where I think climate change mitigation should be part of any serious prepper's long term preps. I think a world far different from ours is an unavoidable future in the next few decades, and you should realistically plan for it. Picking the right place to be is going to be the trick though - get out that crystal ball, and good luck.
Up a hill - sea levels will be rising and flash flooding will be more common,
With trees - they help prevent drought, stop landslides and provide fuel,
With strong structures - winds will rise and earthquakes increase (isostatic readjustment),
With seed that will grow further north (south for the southern hemisphere) and fruit trees that will thrive and produce in hotter temperatures than you face now,
Grow resistant strains - as in survival situations pesticides will be unavailable,
Have good storage - weather prediction may fail with "weather weirding" and you will need back up supplies some years,
Arm to protect what you have - but also cultivate a support network you can rely on.  Survival is easier in groups: that is why our ancestors lived in tribes.
Store some fungicides and learn some simple medicine.  The hotter it gets, the more you sweat, the more you sweat the more fungi love you!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Food:

Those of you who rely heavily on potatoes (great for limited space) go for the most blight resistant strain you can get and interplant it with ocu (ocu helps keep blight away and provides a fall-back starch source if the spuds fail.  Slugs hate them too.)  Move the crop each year and plant elsewhere.

If you garden at all, learn to polyploid your plants, they are stronger, better at resisting disease and more productive.

I am fascinated by medicine; especially nutrition: my husband is a botanical nut.  We have (after colossal research, trial and error and much arguing) come up with a minimum plant list for nutritional basics.

Whichever grain grows best in your area and any pea/bean/lentil you get the best crop from  Have a look at what the local farmers grow.  This will give you balanced protein and all the b vitamins (except 12).  If the legume you chose is a species of pea, the holmes can be fed to livestock and the tendrils and pods can be eaten too, increasing production in a limited space.

Oilseed rape (or better still kale) to provide green veg for both vitamin c (leaf) and oil (seed) get a red variety if you can as a source of beta carotene.  After pressing, the seed-cake makes an animal feed.

Sugar beet or beetroot, to supply gore sugar - this enables you to preserve the fruits of the wild plants in your area, or the produce of vineyards, orchards and the veggie plot (beta carotene).  Sugar cane works, but it fills the wrong role in a four crop rotation.  Any species of innula also works for this role, but less of the calories would be available to you.  Spuds can also fill the fourth role, but they cannot be used to make sugar for preserving, so you would also need a red or yellow veg that is clampable to provide the rest of the beta carotene if you go for spuds.

Those four plants can be used as a four crop rotation: keeping pests down and fertility up.  That simple process massively raised the yields and reliability of the farms of our ancestors.

There are two nutrients those plants fail to provide: vitamins d and b12.  Both can be supplied by the last crop: tempeh

Being a fungus, tempeh makes neither d nor b12 under normal circumstances.  However, as the culture is propagated year in year out, it develops accompanying bacterial cultures and these make b12.  Just like us, fungi make vitamin d to protect themselves from ultraviolet radiation.  So before cooking the tempeh you have just cut from the culture, put it out in the sunlight for an hour or so.

These basics are as boring as s**t and a more varied diet will be healthier, but you can survive on just them and a bit of foraging for the rest of your lives if necessary.  If pests eat your crops - eat the pests. SORRY! 

Caterpillars are not normally edible to us; chickens and ducks can eat them. 
Snails carry horrible diseases, so if you are going to eat them, keep them in a barrel of oatmeal for a day or too before eating and COOK THEM VERY WELL! 
Ducks can eat slugs without harm and they love them!  They will patrol your veggie plot for them and then lay eggs. 
Locusts are a particularly good food source.  If you have eaten them, as my husband has, they are quite pleasant and popular in some African countries. 
All birds are edible, but birds of prey carry nasty stuff and rot amazingly fast - best avoided. 
Cook any mammals very well to avoid  disease transmission.  The closer the relative, the more diseases you have in common.  That is why canibalism is such a stupid idea.
Be careful of river and near coastal fish (and the scavengers of those areas like seagulls) as they are quickly po
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2017, 12:51:17 PM »


    That’s the claim made by the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México’s Professor Gerardo Ceballos, who recently published work in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Science detailing the significant rate of mammalian extinction across Earth. Animal populations across the planet have decreased by as much as 80 percent since 1900, an event akin to "biological annihilation.” The loss of wildlife means stark repercussions on food production and our national ecosystem.

    Large regions in all continents have lost 50 percent or more of the populations of the evaluated mammals from 1900 to 2015. While the small sample size only covers 177 species, and is biased to larger mammals, this figure can be used to visualize likely trends in global population losses. Assuming that on average each of the 10,000km2 occupied quadrats studied held a single population of the species found within it, Ceballos estimates that roughly 58,000 populations of the 177 mammals examined have gone extinct.
     

#1
Jul 11, 2017 #2
PaulP
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    Bullshit. No doubt he wants more money to study the problem further.
     

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Jul 11, 2017 #3
M76
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    That's a load of bull. The most numerous animals on the planet are insects, I doubt their numbers decreased by 80%.
    Sure if you cherry pick and look at only animals that are in the public eye you might be able to claim such bullshit. And even then it has nothing in common with mass extinction events of the past as the reduction in living space and thus numbers in those species are clearly a result of human population growth and intermingling.
     

#3
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Jul 11, 2017 #4
tetris42
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    M76 said: ↑

        That's a load of bull. The most numerous animals on the planet are insects, I doubt their numbers decreased by 80%.
        Sure if you cherry pick and look at only animals that are in the public eye you might be able to claim such bullshit. And even then it has nothing in common with mass extinction events of the past as the reduction in living space and thus numbers in those species are clearly a result of human population growth and intermingling.

    FTFA:

    "Earth is now in a period of mass global species extinction for vertebrate animals,"

    So yeah, that would exclude insects. We HAVE lost a tremendous amount of species in the past 150 years or so. For everyone saying "bullshit" as a kneejerk reaction, just look up how much deforestation we've had over that amount of time. It's equivalent to a natural disaster, you think that doesn't affect the ecosystem? Our way of life is not even remotely sustainable.
     

#4
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Jul 11, 2017 #5
KarsusTG
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    Well he did say mammalian and vertebrate species...
     

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Jul 11, 2017 #6
Armenius
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    The planet's biodiversity has been decreasing at an alarming rate, and unlike global warming, this can be linked directly to human influence.
     

#6
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Jul 11, 2017 #7
otherweeb
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    M76 said: ↑

        That's a load of bull. The most numerous animals on the planet are insects, I doubt their numbers decreased by 80%.
        Sure if you cherry pick and look at only animals that are in the public eye you might be able to claim such bullshit. And even then it has nothing in common with mass extinction events of the past as the reduction in living space and thus numbers in those species are clearly a result of human population growth and intermingling.

    Would you like grub fries with your grasshopper burger sir?
     

#7
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Jul 11, 2017 #8
MaZa
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    Yeah earth has gone through multiple mass extinction periods, but has any one of them included mass extinction of insects? Well, except for the very first one when earth had almost nothing BUT insect-like sea creatures. Insects are hardy creatures, the saying "only thing that survives nuclear holocaust are cockroaches" is not just a joke. In any case, a mass extinction of bigger animals is a sad thing. What makes earth special in space is heavily reduced and basically everything goes back to the drawing board for million years.
     

#8
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Jul 11, 2017 #9
nutzo
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    I think it's a good thing that I don't have to worry about getting eaten by wolfs or grizzly when I leave my house.
    My thanks to the pioneers who settled this area and who hunted them to extinction a hundred years ago.

    With all the "wildlife" protection laws we have now days, we are seeing more people being maimed or killed by sharks, coyotes and other predators.
     

#9
Jul 11, 2017 #10
Private_Ops
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    nutzo said: ↑

        I think it's a good thing that I don't have to worry about getting eaten by wolfs or grizzly when I leave my house.
        My thanks to the pioneers who settled this area and who hunted them to extinction a hundred years ago.

        With all the "wildlife" protection laws we have now days, we are seeing more people being maimed or killed by sharks, coyotes and other predators.

    Do you have an active hunting community? Without predator populations deer populations tend to explode (and we as humans usually end up hitting them with our vehicles).

    Or, they out eat their food supply and starve/die.
     

#10
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Jul 11, 2017 #11
azuza001
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    This is 50% a serious problem, 50% bullshit, and 100% someone's else's fault because _______________.

    Multiple choice time!

    A. Thanks obama
    B. Thanks trump
    C. I'm white so it can't be my fault
    D. All of the above


    Jokes aside this is kind of scary but it really is our own fault. Lions and elephants don't shoot themselves. Monkeys don't destroy their own forests. Polar bears don't mine coal and burn it in excessive quantities to produce electricity for their Cubs to play video games. The question is what do we do about it and how do you get people to give up their creature comforts or realize they need to change their habits to try and help us survive the incoming issues? Answer is you can't. You can't even get most people to look beyond their day to day problems to try and make things better next month.

    Now I am sad. :( next time I should lead with the seriousness and end with the joke....
     

#11
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Jul 11, 2017 #12
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    We are the reason for this. Agent Smith had it right. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.

    The answer? Cull the herd. That one Sliders episode where you win the lottery, is a pretty good solution. Keeps the population low, so we have enough resources to sustain ourselves.
     

#12
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Jul 11, 2017 #13
tetris42
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    nutzo said: ↑

        I think it's a good thing that I don't have to worry about getting eaten by wolfs or grizzly when I leave my house.
        My thanks to the pioneers who settled this area and who hunted them to extinction a hundred years ago.

        With all the "wildlife" protection laws we have now days, we are seeing more people being maimed or killed by sharks, coyotes and other predators.

    Taking out predators in a region near humanity doesn't have the same level of impact if they're replaced with hunters. That's not really the problem. Clear-cutting and / or burning off hundreds of millions of acres of old forest or jungle to replace it with grazeland is.
     

#13
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Jul 11, 2017 #14
Old_Way
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    Without immigration, the US would be shrinking in population. Europe, Canada, Japan, China... all shrinking. The problem is the poorer areas of the world where the population is exploding and there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. If your kids gotta eat, then something's gotta die.
     

#14
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Jul 11, 2017 #15
dgingeri
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    Well, maybe if the idiots of the human race would quit breeding, we wouldn't have them overflowing the world and killing things off because they need home. Our problem is we have too many stupid people on this planet.
     

#15
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Jul 11, 2017 #16
gtrguy
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    dgingeri said: ↑

        Well, maybe if the idiots of the human race would quit breeding, we wouldn't have them overflowing the world and killing things off because they need home. Our problem is we have too many stupid people on this planet.


    Agreed. And lots of them in this thread...
     

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Jul 11, 2017 #17
Charlie_D
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    Just enforce population control for a few generations... congratulations, you had a child! Now, we're sterilizing you.

    Hello, male over 35 years of age. We have a present for you *snip*

    100% serious here. Do it for 4 generations, and stabilize the human population at ~500 million.

    Might need 5 generations, for the people that try to hide. All you do then is wipe out the entire family when they're caught, any anyone harboring them. Easy peasy.

    ....

    Did I get too dark?
     

#17
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Jul 11, 2017 #18
Armenius
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    Charlie_D said: ↑

        Just enforce population control for a few generations... congratulations, you had a child! Now, we're sterilizing you.

        Hello, male over 35 years of age. We have a present for you *snip*

        100% serious here. Do it for 4 generations, and stabilize the human population at ~500 million.

        Might need 5 generations, for the people that try to hide. All you do then is wipe out the entire family when they're caught, any anyone harboring them. Easy peasy.

        ....

        Did I get too dark?
        Click to expand...

    Genocide is never an answer. Human population growth rate is starting to shrink naturally across the world due to a number of factors. All we need to do is stop protecting stupid people and let Darwin sort them out.
     

#18
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Jul 11, 2017 #19
Snoflo
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    We are the custodians of the planet. I wish we could do better. I find the caustic reaction to the science of it kind of strange, personally. I have people gulping down twenty tablets a day without question as to the science behind those tablets. People have a lot of trust in the science that makes their phones, cars, or TVs possible. But climate science, or conservation science? Hogwash! Scientists are politicians! Then again, you do have the folks who refuse to vaccinate their kids too.

    I don't think people are ignorant, but I do think that there is a breakdown between communication between the scientific community and the rest of us. As to the science itself: it's the only tool we have to figure stuff out. Sure, a few scientists may have personal or political agendas, but that's where consensus opinion comes in. The consensus is pretty clear by now.
     

#19
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Jul 11, 2017 #20
raz-0
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    Charlie_D said: ↑

        Just enforce population control for a few generations... congratulations, you had a child! Now, we're sterilizing you.

        Hello, male over 35 years of age. We have a present for you *snip*

        100% serious here. Do it for 4 generations, and stabilize the human population at ~500 million.

        Might need 5 generations, for the people that try to hide. All you do then is wipe out the entire family when they're caught, any anyone harboring them. Easy peasy.

        ....

        Did I get too dark?
        Click to expand...

    As I always say to the depopulation people. You lead from the front, have someone call me when you are gone.

    They always get pissy about it.

    The environment is not a stable place. It never has been. The question is have you replaced an ecosystem with another ecosystem that will function? If the answer is yes, humans are probably fine. Things like overfishing the answer is likely no. Too much damage too fast.

    However, for things like this stuff where you are talking about large mammals being overrepresented, the odds of simply having swapped large mammals for smaller ones that work out ok over time is much higher. There's a rich critter ecosystem even in urban areas. It just doesn't involve elephants, bears, elk, etc.

    Also at a deeper level, I have problems with the fact this dude or his translator has zero grasp of the words they use.

    each 10,000km2 quadrant has 1 populaton .... big assumption, but hey whatever treat them all that way and the math should apply if you properly measured existence and jsut aggregated them as one group for the purposes of math.
    58,000 populations are gone... WTF dude. quadrant = four. you take an area, divide in four eaqual sections with two lines you have a quadrant. You don't get 58,000 quadrants. 58,000 areas perhaps. but they aren't fucking quadrants. When everything you are claiming needs to be backed by math and you fail at basic usage of math words, it makes me question if anything you claim has been measured or calculated properly.
     

#20
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Jul 11, 2017 #21
MaZa
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    Charlie_D said: ↑

        Just enforce population control for a few generations... congratulations, you had a child! Now, we're sterilizing you.

        Hello, male over 35 years of age. We have a present for you *snip*

        100% serious here. Do it for 4 generations, and stabilize the human population at ~500 million.

        Might need 5 generations, for the people that try to hide. All you do then is wipe out the entire family when they're caught, any anyone harboring them. Easy peasy.

        ....

        Did I get too dark?
        Click to expand...


    Yeah you went bit too overboard but you do have the right idea. China was right when they enforced the only 1 child per family rule. Their population growth stabilized. Now, children not having siblings is kinda bummer but it is definetly more humane solution to the problem than wishing for massive war or meteor strike that wipes half of the human population. If world leaders would get together and admit overpopulation is a serious problem and together decide that 1 child rule should be kept for 5 generations through the world the problem would get fixed in relatively short time. We already cull the numbers of animals to prevent accidents or their population getting too big for their own good. Its time to do the same for us.
     

#21
Jul 11, 2017 #22
Inu
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    Surely the reduced numbers of Co2 producers (natural gas) must counter the lack of forests.
     

#22
Jul 11, 2017 #23
ruffbytes
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    Drug resistant gonorrhea should sort this problem out.
     

#23
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Jul 11, 2017 #24
Uvaman2
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    Its not surprising.. I think many dont understand you can have upside down pyramids for a while.
     

#24
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Jul 11, 2017 #25
M76
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    tetris42 said: ↑

        FTFA:

        "Earth is now in a period of mass global species extinction for vertebrate animals,"

        So yeah, that would exclude insects. We HAVE lost a tremendous amount of species in the past 150 years or so. For everyone saying "bullshit" as a kneejerk reaction, just look up how much deforestation we've had over that amount of time. It's equivalent to a natural disaster, you think that doesn't affect the ecosystem? Our way of life is not even remotely sustainable.

    To be honest TLDR
    Anyhow I already explained why is it bullshit even if we restrict it to a few classes of animals. Species go extinct all the time. The number of species that are still present are a fraction of all the species that have gone extinct trough earth's history. I don't see anything that would suggest we're in a natural mass extinction period. Mass extinction is an ice age, or a meteor. This to me just seems business as usual coupled with human expansion.
     

#25
Jul 11, 2017 #26
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    tetris42 said: ↑

        So yeah, that would exclude insects. We HAVE lost a tremendous amount of species in the past 150 years or so. For everyone saying "bullshit" as a kneejerk reaction, just look up how much deforestation we've had over that amount of time. It's equivalent to a natural disaster, you think that doesn't affect the ecosystem? Our way of life is not even remotely sustainable.

    If you have a solid logical justification for telling people in Brazil why they are not allowed to follow self determination while Americans are, we're all ears. I'm sure they would love to hear your reasoning.

    Obama did kind of have the right idea, he told a bunch of Africans that the world would boil over if the quality of life on this planet improved to the point that even Africans had big houses, air conditioning and cars. He might be right.

     

#26
Jul 11, 2017 #27
Charlie_D
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    Armenius said: ↑

        Genocide is never an answer. Human population growth rate is starting to shrink naturally across the world due to a number of factors. All we need to do is stop protecting stupid people and let Darwin sort them out.

    Other than the 'kill all the people that won't do it!' piece (which was a bit tongue-in-cheek), it's not genocide. We're not talking about rounding people up and cleansing the Earth, rather a strict birth limit for a number of generations. People get to live as long as they can, but natural die off would still take care of things within a couple centuries.
     

#27
Jul 11, 2017 #28
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    I'm not worried, humans will nuke each other into oblivion and the ecosystem will eventually recover.
     

#28
Jul 11, 2017 #29
M76
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    Charlie_D said: ↑

        Just enforce population control for a few generations... congratulations, you had a child! Now, we're sterilizing you.

        Hello, male over 35 years of age. We have a present for you *snip*

        100% serious here. Do it for 4 generations, and stabilize the human population at ~500 million.

        Might need 5 generations, for the people that try to hide. All you do then is wipe out the entire family when they're caught, any anyone harboring them. Easy peasy.

        ....

        Did I get too dark?
        Click to expand...

    If you'd look at the actual data it shows that all well educated and economically stable countries are actually shrinking and not increasing. If you have education and a purpose then you won't pop out offspring left, right and centre.
     

#29
Jul 11, 2017 #30
MaZa
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    Armenius said: ↑

        Genocide is never an answer. Human population growth rate is starting to shrink naturally across the world due to a number of factors. All we need to do is stop protecting stupid people and let Darwin sort them out.


    Unfortunately we have to protect the stupid people if we are to protect ourselves. If we allowed stupid people to do stupid things the non-stupid also have a high chance of becoming victims of their stupidity. Think of a dumbass texting while driving and running over an innocent bystander.
     

#30
Jul 11, 2017 #31
Charlie_D
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    M76 said: ↑

        If you'd look at the actual data it shows that all well educated and economically stable countries are actually shrinking and not increasing. If you have education and a purpose then you won't pop out offspring left, right and centre.

    Irrelevant, honestly. Unless it was applied to everyone, riots / fighting / wars would break out within a year... and rightly so, in that case.
     

#31
Jul 11, 2017 #32
Iching
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    Erase Asia, South East Asia and parts of Africa. Problem solved. Nobody should be allowed to breed like that. It's inhumane, immoral, suicidal - plain stupid.
     

#32
Jul 11, 2017 #33
Vildayyan2003
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    None of it will matter when there are 15 billion humans on Earth.
     

#33
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Jul 11, 2017 #34
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    scojer said: ↑

        We are the reason for this. Agent Smith had it right. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.

        The answer? Cull the herd. That one Sliders episode where you win the lottery, is a pretty good solution. Keeps the population low, so we have enough resources to sustain ourselves.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
     

#34
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Jul 11, 2017 #35
Aireoth
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    This thread is exactly why we are fucked.
     

#35
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Jul 11, 2017 #36
grtitan
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    Please let me know when the species "politicus corruptus" become extinct, so I can pour one for them... ;-)
     

#36
Jul 11, 2017 #37
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    M76 said: ↑

        To be honest TLDR
        Anyhow I already explained why is it bullshit even if we restrict it to a few classes of animals. Species go extinct all the time. The number of species that are still present are a fraction of all the species that have gone extinct trough earth's history. I don't see anything that would suggest we're in a natural mass extinction period. Mass extinction is an ice age, or a meteor. This to me just seems business as usual coupled with human expansion.

    "Business as usual" is what's going to ravage our environment. Of course species go extinct, but if it's the direct result of massive overdevelopment on our part, that impacts us. I mean look at the comparison of old growth forest in the USA:

    [​IMG]

    You don't think that has an adverse effect on the ecosystem and species that depend on those environments? Sure, nature adapts, but it may not adapt in a way that is conducive to supporting so many of us either. But like you said, insects will win either way.


    westrock2000 said: ↑

        If you have a solid logical justification for telling people in Brazil why they are not allowed to follow self determination while Americans are, we're all ears. I'm sure they would love to hear your reasoning.

        Obama did kind of have the right idea, he told a bunch of Africans that the world would boil over if the quality of life on this planet improved to the point that even Africans had big houses, air conditioning and cars. He might be right.

        Click to expand...

    It's more like they're doing it wrong AND we're doing it wrong, our way of life is not sustainable for the population we have, that's all there is to it. The only thing resembling a solution is to scale down the amount of resources we use, which simply isn't how we're operating. Most of the advances we've made come at the cost of resources that are consumed faster than they're replenished. You can look at much of our prosperity over the past 150 years or as essentially borrowing from our future. Nature requires us to use some resources and preserve others, so it's sustainable. Our economic system requires us to have endless growth and profit as much as possible from all available resources. These views can't co-exist, so nature tends to lose. Unfortunately the concept of imposing limits on our way of life for our long-term survival is viewed as very un-American, so we're on a collision course one way or another.
     

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Jul 11, 2017 #38
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    I just got started fishing again. Looking at how few places are left where people catch fish, the less diversity of the fish, and the much, much smaller size of fish caught...it's pretty sad.

    Then the fish you do catch have a bunch of toxins in them.

    But yeah, it's all science behind some nefarious plot to have clean air and water and shit, those bastards.
     

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Jul 11, 2017 #39
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    Said it before, I'll say it again. Eugenics is taboo now, but it won't be in ~100-200 years when the world is massively overpopulated. People with bad genes shouldn't be breeding if we are going to progress as a species. Be it susceptibility to disease, intelligence, or a number of other measures; we'll have to choose who doesn't cut it. In turn, we'll solve a huge number of societies current problems, which new ones we create are unknown.
     

#39
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Jul 11, 2017 #40
lcpiper
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    tetris42 said: ↑

        FTFA:

        "Earth is now in a period of mass global species extinction for vertebrate animals,"

        So yeah, that would exclude insects. We HAVE lost a tremendous amount of species in the past 150 years or so. For everyone saying "bullshit" as a kneejerk reaction, just look up how much deforestation we've had over that amount of time. It's equivalent to a natural disaster, you think that doesn't affect the ecosystem? Our way of life is not even remotely sustainable.



    The Earth doesn't give a shit about us humans. When we become enough of a nuisance, it'll find a way to fix the problem. It's all good in the 'hood.
     

#41
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Jul 11, 2017 #42
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    nutzo said: ↑

        I think it's a good thing that I don't have to worry about getting eaten by wolfs or grizzly when I leave my house.
        My thanks to the pioneers who settled this area and who hunted them to extinction a hundred years ago.

        With all the "wildlife" protection laws we have now days, we are seeing more people being maimed or killed by sharks, coyotes and other predators.

    That, and people are diving back into the wild habitats without any knowledge of what the wild really is and completely unprepared to deal with it.
     

#42
Jul 11, 2017 #43
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    Charlie_D said: ↑

        Just enforce population control for a few generations... congratulations, you had a child! Now, we're sterilizing you.

        Hello, male over 35 years of age. We have a present for you *snip*

        100% serious here. Do it for 4 generations, and stabilize the human population at ~500 million.

        Might need 5 generations, for the people that try to hide. All you do then is wipe out the entire family when they're caught, any anyone harboring them. Easy peasy.

        ....

        Did I get too dark?
        Click to expand...

    Breeding large families is literally in many religions as a duty, including Islam. Trying to do this will only bring the populations in civilized countries under control. The uncivilized ones will continue to breed out of control and overwhelm the civilized societies, and dump the human race into chaos and destruction.
     

#43
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Jul 11, 2017 #44
lcpiper
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    dgingeri said: ↑

        Well, maybe if the idiots of the human race would quit breeding, we wouldn't have them overflowing the world and killing things off because they need home. Our problem is we have too many stupid people on this planet.


    Help me think this one through for a moment.

    Do we really want to reduce the human drive to procreate in any way. I get the whole "stupid people" part. I'm just not sure that trying to curb our basic need to maintain the species will have a desirable effect.

    Maybe we just need a little less refined sense of humanity. Perhaps not all deaths need to be tragedies of epic scale. Maybe instead of smart people spending so much effort on safety and life saving, etc is actually part of the problem.

    If it were the smart ones who stopped fucking, it follows that the world would become a more dangerous place for homo-sapiens, and the population would adjust accordingly.

    Just a thought. Too smart for our own good maybe?
     

#44
Jul 11, 2017 #45
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    It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
     

#45
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Jul 11, 2017 #46
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    tetris42 said: ↑

        These views can't co-exist, so nature tends to lose. Unfortunately the concept of imposing limits on our way of life for our long-term survival is viewed as very un-American, so we're on a collision course one way or another.

    It's not "un-American", it's un-human. Humans are not ones to rest on their laurels. You're blaming America, but America simply represents the current peak of human achievement. The representitive country can change at any moment, the "problem" will remain. It's the same problem that man has faced since we left the fertile crescent. We will solve it again, just as we did crossing the ocean. Or we will parish. Either way, nature will continue on. I think the score is still something like Humans 0 : Nature 10000000000000006. So I don't have high confidence we will beat her just yet.
     

#46
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Jul 11, 2017 #47
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    https://www.si.com/eats/2017/07/06/seattle-mariners-grasshoppers-ballpark-food-safeco-field

    Well third world cuisine has just met the elite.
     

#47
Jul 11, 2017 #48
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    nutzo said: ↑

        With all the "wildlife" protection laws we have now days, we are seeing more people being maimed or killed by sharks, coyotes and other predators.

    Good stay the fuck out of their territory.

    Like people complaining about sharks in the ocean, its not your natural environment you are not suppose to be there. And when you do go in your no longer top of the food chain so live with the facts or get eaten!
     

Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
#48
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Jul 11, 2017 #49
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    Really?
    19 000 000 000 chickens
    7 500 000 000 humans
    2 000 000 000 pigs
    1 500 000 000 cows
    1 000 000 000 sheep
    600 000 000? cats
    525 000 000 dogs

    Insects? TOO DAMN MUCH!

    Also we are on top of the food chain on land and in water. *laughs in whaler*
     

#49
Jul 11, 2017 #50
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    Makaveli@BETA said: ↑

        Good stay the fuck out of their territory.

        Like people complaining about sharks in the ocean, its not your natural environment you are not suppose to be there. And when you do go in your no longer top of the food chain so live with the facts or get eaten!


    A man's gotta know his limitations .............

    [​IMG]
     

#50
Jul 11, 2017 #51
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    PaulP said: ↑

        Bullshit. No doubt he wants more money to study the problem further.

    Just like how NASA will come out each year to say they've found water on another planet, just before program funding is cut.
     

#51
Jul 11, 2017 #52
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    Once again, George said it best I think. I may not agree 100% with all his comments here, but I firmly believe that "The planet will shake us off like a bad case of fleas".
     

#52
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Jul 11, 2017 #53
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    westrock2000 said: ↑

        It's not "un-American", it's un-human. Humans are not ones to rest on their laurels.

    You were talking about America v. Brazil, that's why I brought it up.

        America simply represents the current peak of human achievement.

    See this is the problem, this type of thinking sounds like it's so far out in one spectrum of how you view the world, I'm not even sure I can communicate what I'm talking about to you. Is America #1 in sustainable living? #1 in environmental protection and balance? How about long-term planning? Is that why our infrastructure is falling apart? Does America pride itself how it's prepared to function for the next 1000 years, due to such a great system + adaptability or is it flying by the seat of its pants? There are different measures of human achievement. America is #1 in some of them, it's woefully behind others. It sure as hell is NOT #1 in long-term thinking.

        The representitive country can change at any moment, the "problem" will remain. It's the same problem that man has faced since we left the fertile crescent

    It's a values + education problem, not a human nature one. Humans are dramatically shaped by the culture they grow up in. Something are close to universal, but other things that may be common sense to one are practically alien to another. The Native Americans lived here thousands of years with an understanding that a balance between man and nature is necessary. In some tribes, major changes, like diverting a river, or some other development would only be made if it was predicted how this would impact the next 7 generations. We don't have anything remotely close to this.

        Either way, nature will continue on. I think the score is still something like Humans 0 : Nature 10000000000000006. So I don't have high confidence we will beat her just yet.

    Yes, we are unlikely to eliminate all life on earth. What I mean is when we destroy hundreds of millions of acres forest or jungle that's millions of years old, or directly cause a species to go extinct due to our activity, that's not a victory for nature. That's not a victory for us either, since it eventually comes back around.

    I'm simply not in the camp that sees human extinction as inevitable, so we may as well embrace it. Again, that's a death cult mentality. I see human survival as something that requires us to make good decisions with our extinction be something PREVENTABLE, but that's obviously not on the same page as some posters here.
     

#53
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Jul 11, 2017 #54
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    Aireoth said: ↑

        This thread is exactly why we are fucked.

    Agreed. People who's time on this earth that equals 30 seconds in all of existence somehow can solve the mysteries of the earth and life itself.
    Their solutions usually turns into mass murder because they refuse to acknowledge they don't know the true answer.

    Rapid modernization has caused this, not a certain type of people who have too much sex.
     

#54
Jul 11, 2017 #55
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    M76 said: ↑

        That's a load of bull. The most numerous animals on the planet are insects, I doubt their numbers decreased by 80%.
        Sure if you cherry pick and look at only animals that are in the public eye you might be able to claim such bullshit. And even then it has nothing in common with mass extinction events of the past as the reduction in living space and thus numbers in those species are clearly a result of human population growth and intermingling.

    Just to clarify the insects argument everyone wants to use:

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/09/0920_050920_extinct_insects.html
    http://e360.yale.edu/features/insect_numbers_declining_why_it_matters

    Even insects are a problem. Just take bees as an example. There has been a severe decline in bees, causing a lot of issues around the world. Also transplanting the wrong kinds of bees leads to even more issues, like Africanized bees which tend to aggressively take over the territory of other natural bee species. There are many programs happening throughout the world to try and harbor new bee populations, especially in more rural countries where it can help their food and economy problems.

    http://time.com/4688417/north-american-bee-population-extinction/
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/death-and-extinction-of-the-bees/5375684

    So now that we have addressed that even insects are going extinct, next crutch? A lot of this information is nothing new, science has been tracking the ever growing list of extinctions. Some are actually not that big of an issue where they do not have an impact on the new cleared areas. But there are many smaller consequences that lead to larger issues as more and more become extinct. When it has gotten to the point now where bees are disappearing, now you have a very real and observable effect happening to humanity and not just the planet. Also, there is no telling what natural cures or remedies have been lost to us forever by species of plant and animal being wiped out.

    As I have mentioned a few times, global warming isn't the problem. Deforestation and changing climate patterns, destroying natural species of plant and animals is the real problem.
     

#55
Jul 11, 2017 #56
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    tetris42 said: ↑

        I'm simply not in the camp that sees human extinction as inevitable, so we may as well embrace it. Again, that's a death cult mentality. I see human survival as something that requires us to make good decisions with our extinction be something PREVENTABLE, but that's obviously not on the same page as some posters here.

    The secret of life is survival through means of 1.) self-protection, followed closely by 2.) reproduction in order to perpetuate the species...that's why the sex drive is usually the strongest urge, eclipsed only by fight or flight instinct. Preventing human extinction is insurmountable in the grand scheme of Earth's already-long (and presumptuously long-coming) existence. Remember that old saying "eat healthy, exercise, get plenty of sleep...die anyway"? There's a dichotomy involved here that leads to a similar result: eventual human extinction, no matter what we think we can do to avoid it. How long we can curtail it from happening is an whole 'nother conversation...
     

#56
Jul 11, 2017 #57
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    Talk about a bubble waiting to burst...

    [​IMG]

    It's almost as if the energy density of fossil fuels has caused an entirely anomalous form of human existence...
     

#57
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Jul 11, 2017 #58
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    We can encourage people to not have families. It's working very well at the moment. We convince the women that their careers are just as important as the mans career and then we encourage high levels of consumerism so that they have a constant need for cash inflow. We can make birth control very easy to acquire. And should the instance ever come that they do get pregnant, we encourage them to terminate the pregnancy. We can even make the social structure of a sustainable family a faux pa.

    It might work.
     

#58
Jul 11, 2017 #59
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    westrock2000 said: ↑

        We can encourage people to not have families. It's working very well at the moment. We convince the women that their careers are just as important as the mans career and then we encourage high levels of consumerism so that they have a constant need for cash inflow. We can make birth control very easy to acquire. And should the instance ever come that they do get pregnant, we encourage them to terminate the pregnancy. We can even make the social structure of a sustainable family a faux pa.

        It might work.

    In fact, one major driver of decreased birth rates in the developed world is later age at first birth in educated women.
     

#59
Jul 11, 2017 #60
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    DejaWiz said: ↑

        The secret of life is survival through means of 1.) self-protection, followed closely by 2.) reproduction in order to perpetuate the species...that's why the sex drive is usually the strongest urge, eclipsed only by fight or flight instinct. Preventing human extinction is insurmountable in the grand scheme of Earth's already-long (and presumptuously long-coming) existence. Remember that old saying "eat healthy, exercise, get plenty of sleep...die anyway"? There's a dichotomy involved here that leads to a similar result: eventual human extinction, no matter what we think we can do to avoid it. How long we can curtail it from happening is an whole 'nother conversation...

    Well thanks for living up completely to my death cult comparison. Sorry, but I'm not a fatalist.

    What is so insurmountable to our survival exactly? We can prevent an asteroid from hitting the planet if we detect it soon enough. We don't HAVE to nuke each other at the press of a button. We CAN be smart about how we manage our resources and our populations. Hell, over a long enough time span, we COULD eventually build a generation ship to actually leave the Earth. Unless you're one of those bible thumpers who thinks we're living the end days, the extinction of humanity is not a foregone conclusion. We both have the capacity to save ourselves as a species, or to destroy ourselves. Just because we may lean towards the latter doesn't mean we can't self-correct. It all comes down to priorities; right now we don't have the right ones for long term survival, but that can also change.
     

#60
Jul 11, 2017 #61
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    tetris42 said: ↑

        See this is the problem, this type of thinking sounds like it's so far out in one spectrum of how you view the world, I'm not even sure I can communicate what I'm talking about to you. Is America #1 in sustainable living? #1 in environmental protection and balance?

    America is #1 because it is the current society that is able to exert that position of authority on others. No other country can impose their will on others like America can. Whether we are ideal or not, it doesn't matter, because we set the tone regardless.

        The Native Americans lived here thousands of years with an understanding that a balance between man and nature is necessary. In some tribes, major changes, like diverting a river, or some other development would only be made if it was predicted how this would impact the next 7 generations. We don't have anything remotely close to this..

    While the North American indians were living in teepee's, the South American indians were building pyramids and mapping the stars with incredible accuracy. But they were both destroyed by the technologically more advanced Europeans. Again, it came down to who could exert their will. The North American indians never achieved any level of civilization success. Even up to the 1900's when we finally crushed them, they still hadn't even achieved structured cities....something the Olmec's had done in Mexico 2500 years previously. Given more time, the Native Americans would have developed just as "we" have. Comparing South America to the Middle East, two societies that had no known contact yet developed in unison, you have to accept that it was either aliens OR that humans simply have a destined fate. I would go with fate.

    My point is not that you are wrong to think that we have a sustainability problem. My point is that it is wrong to think this would have ended up any other way.
     

#61
Jul 11, 2017 #62
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    Why the hell is this even a story here? I mean he used a tablet in his presentation? If anything has held true is whenever there is any sort of "natural" story posted on this site just about everyone who comments in the post suddenly has PhDs in Climate, Animal, Paleo-history, Geology, and everything else under the Sun, OR they're like "nah man, you don't need a degree to know this stuff, just look online man!"
     

#62
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    dgingeri said: ↑

        Breeding large families is literally in many religions as a duty

    "Be fruitful, and multiply." -- Genesis 1:28

    Guess what! We've done just that... a million times over!!! Now it's time to slow it down a hell of a lot. God also made us stewards of creation. Damn... we really fucked up in that regard.
     

#63
Jul 11, 2017 #64
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    For all the people blaming global warming and saying we need to drive hybrids, and that HUMANS are at fault, do you really think if you gave the keys of a corvette to a chimpanzee, he wouldn't drive the shit out of it? Think before you speak.
     

#64
Jul 11, 2017 #65
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    cpy2 said: ↑

        Really?
        19 000 000 000 chickens
        7 500 000 000 humans
        2 000 000 000 pigs
        1 500 000 000 cows
        1 000 000 000 sheep
        600 000 000? cats
        525 000 000 dogs

        Insects? TOO DAMN MUCH!

        Also we are on top of the food chain on land and in water. *laughs in whaler*
        Click to expand...


    There is only a billion cows?!?!

    Build moar steak!!!
     

#65
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Jul 11, 2017 #66
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    Master_shake_ said: ↑

        There is only a billion cows?!?!

        Build moar steak!!!

    Most of that is probably dairy cows.
     

#66
Jul 11, 2017 #67
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    If you ask me, we the earth included are a living experiment by some higher being.
    Too many things dont add up, and I really would not be surprised if we were some higher intelligent beings school science project

    Similar to the earth dome theory and the flat earth theory.

    What happens is gunna happen, we do have the power to slow whatever is gunna happen down by overnight stopping using bad shit but do we want to stop it ?

    I fully believe that some cabal somewhere is planning for a mass extinction event that rapes the worlds population down to about 500million to 1 billion people.

    They say that by 2050 i think it was that their would be 24 billion people on earth, whether thats true i doubt it but the earth cannot sustain huge numbers like that and continuing to grow without some huge fuckup happening.

    Alot of these conspiracy theory tv shows that show trucks driving into mountain dugouts and underground dugouts that go on for miles and then unloading could maybe be the actual stocking up for some huge forthcoming disaster ? Fuck knows but for a huge world disaster the preplanning and stockpiling would have to happen on such a scale that they would have to do it in full view of everyone but just dont bring attention to it or make too big a deal out of it if people suspect somethings going on.

    If I were born today, fuck even if I was born in the year 2000 i do not think I would want to bring kids into todays world.

    I see no point in preparing for a planetwide disaster, its probably better to just suicide if their was such a disaster as survinving the actual disaster is just the start, its the chaos that comes after that would scare me and by looking at todays society, you can just tell a disaster society is gunna be hella fucked up.
     

#67
Jul 11, 2017 #68
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    westrock2000 said: ↑

        America is #1 because it is the current society that is able to exert that position of authority on others. No other country can impose their will on others like America can. Whether we are ideal or not, it doesn't matter, because we set the tone regardless.



        While the North American indians were living in teepee's, the South American indians were building pyramids and mapping the stars with incredible accuracy. But they were both destroyed by the technologically more advanced Europeans. Again, it came down to who could exert their will. The North American indians never achieved any level of civilization success. Even up to the 1900's when we finally crushed them, they still hadn't even achieved structured cities....something the Olmec's had done in Mexico 2500 years previously. Given more time, the Native Americans would have developed just as "we" have. Comparing South America to the Middle East, two societies that had no known contact yet developed in unison, you have to accept that it was either aliens OR that humans simply have a destined fate. I would go with fate.

        My point is not that you are wrong to think that we have a sust
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6thME - The shrinking habitable land
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2017, 03:09:59 PM »
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 03:15:50 PM by knarf »
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Using technology to stay ahead of disaster risk
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2017, 01:13:55 PM »
In October last year, Hurricane Patricia came ashore in Mexico with record breaking 200 miles per hour winds. A few months later on the other side of the world, Cyclone Winston broke records for Pacific basin wind speeds, destroying parts of mainland Fiji with 180 miles per hour winds. More recently, Cyclone Fantala became the most powerful storm in the Indian Ocean ever recorded.
 
Experts agree that its activities by people which are increasing the severity of storms like these. Climate change isn’t just projected to increase the intensity of hurricanes and cyclones, but a whole other range of other natural hazards, like droughts, floods, storms, and heat waves.

With population rising, and more people moving to urban areas, and concentrating along coasts, vulnerabilities to certain natural hazards – such as sea level rise and hurricanes – is skyrocketing. and between 50 and 90 percent by 2080 under climate change scenarios.
 
– particularly in low- and middle-income countries. Since 1980, low-income countries have accounted for only 9 percent of disaster events but 48 percent of the fatalities, placing a huge strain on humanitarian aid. And although aid and development organizations are increasing investments in preparedness and resilience efforts, climate change is making the risk landscape more dynamic. It will take smarter, faster, innovative analytical tools to create the kind of up-to-date analysis of natural hazard risks that policy makers need to make long-term, risk-informed decisions.
 
The Global Facility for Disaster Reduction and Recovery (GFDRR) is a leader in generating, piloting, and analyzing disaster risk management tools for the dynamic risk landscape created by climate change. Last year alone, GFDRR helped 60 countries create, manage, and use risk information, often leveraging this information into larger investments in resilience.
 
Through its Innovation Lab, GFDRR is developing new approaches to collecting, analyzing, and explaining risk data, such as risk visualization, open data, and crowdsourcing efforts. These innovations are helping development professionals be more effective than ever in addressing the risk environment presented by a changing climate. 
 
Satellites have been providing spatial data for decades – data that track those record breaking storms, help project rainfall, monitor urban development, assess regional flood risk, and more. That data has been largely out of the reach of most, due to cost, a lack of accessible software, and low capacity in a lot of countries that need the data most. The Innovation Lab has been working to make this make this data accessible and useful by collaborating with partners like the Open Data for Resilience Initiative (OpenDRI). The partnership is working to power open source technology and geospatial data sharing platforms and has helped over 100 million people gain access to risk information.
 
The Innovation Lab also created Code for Resilience, connecting local technologists and disaster risk experts to create civic-minded digital and hardware solutions to identify and reduce the risk posed by natural disasters. Another program, the Challenge Fund, provides funding ranging from US$20,000 to $150,000 to support projects that have a disruptive impact in the space of risk assessment. It is currently supporting 15 creative approaches to understanding disaster risk in over 20 nations. One of those projects, Floodtags, collects data through Twitter for on-the-ground flood observations in the Philippines.
 
Soon the Innovation lab will launch ThinkHazard!, an innovative risk visualization tool that will help give decision makers information to make risk-informed choices. The first platform of its kind, ThinkHazard! allows users to quickly develop risk profiles on 8 different types of hazards. All information is open source and unrestricted by licenses which enables users to download all data freely. ThinkHazard! generates a non-technical interpretation of global hazards, empowering non-experts to determine the level of natural hazards in their locality and encouraging greater incorporation of risk management into project planning and design.
 
All of these programs and projects will be showcased at the Understanding Risk Forum 2016  which opened today in Venice, Italy. Over 500 delegates will gather to discuss the latest innovations and biggest challenges in managing disaster risk,  with participation from insurance giants like FM Global, academic institutions such as Columbia University, media groups like the BBC Media Action, think tanks, civil society organizations, and more.
 
As a changing climate continues to break extreme weather records around the globe, we’ll need the best technology, and a collaborative effort, to help us stay ahead of the storms.

https://blogs.worldbank.org/climatechange/education/voices/voices/using-technology-stay-ahead-disaster-risk
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6thME - Climate Change & Epistemic Disaster
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2017, 01:20:37 PM »
In its attack on the very foundations of science, Trumpism constitutes an epistemic disaster: we are facing a crisis in terms of knowledge and objective inquiry. Epistemology (or the theory of knowledge) is concerned with, among other things, what right we have to the beliefs we hold – in other words, it is a normative enterprise: it asks not merely the descriptive-psychological question of how people happen to come to acquire their beliefs, but rather how they should do so.

When the disinterested pursuit of knowledge is in effect denied and dismissed by our nation’s most powerful office, then it seems accurate to say that we are indeed facing a crisis of knowledge and science: an attack upon the very foundation of civil discourse.

On January 20th — the very moment Trump took office — all White House websites were scrubbed of information regarding climate change. The only mention was the following:

 

    “President Trump is committed to eliminating harmful and unnecessary policies such as the Climate Action Plan.” In March, Scott Pruitt, Trump’s appointed director of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), argued on CNBC that “human activity [is not the] primary contributor to the global warming that we see.”

In recent months, this illusion has led to further censorship of official websites, in which historical and factual information related to climate change has been removed. These changes are designed to deliberately politicize the most pressing crisis facing the U.S. and the world; by divesting the EPA of its regulatory functions these changes serve only to promote corporate interests.

The decision to pull out of the Paris Climate Agreement was short-sighted and reckless; driven not by an honest assessment of the consequences of climate change, but instead by both a blind desire to undo Obama’s legacy wherever possible, as well as a hunger for short-term profits at the expense of geopolitical, social, and economic structures.

The reality of anthropogenic climate change is no longer an object of serious scientific contention. The International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 2013 Summary for Policymakers states, “Human influence in the climate system is clear…” as evidences in the “…warming of the atmosphere and ocean, in changes in the global water cycle, in reductions in snow and ice, in global mean sea level rise, and in changes in some climate extremes.” The refusal to acknowledge human-caused climate change is a denial in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Trump’s readiness to allow himself to hold beliefs that are motivated solely by self-interest and his complete disregard for the weight of evidence reflects not only an epistemic failure, but also a moral one. The philosopher William Clifford argued that to believe anything, anywhere, at any time on insufficient evidence is a moral wrong. With its basic assumption that knowledge is reducible to perception, Trumpism has created conditions in which our elected administration feels entitled to edit away inconvenient facts.

In its defunding of climate change research (on May 5th, Congress ratified a federal budget that reduces EPA-funding for Earth science university research grants) and its flagrant redaction of climate change data and references from White House and EPA websites, the administration is acting in ways that willfully ignore a reality which is already upon us.

The scientific has predicted that we may be entering into the sixth mass extinction in the history of Earth – an event that will trigger a loss of biodiversity of unspeakable proportions. According to the Millennium Ecosystem Assessment, “By the end of the century, climate change and its impacts may be the dominant direct driver of biodiversity loss and changes in ecosystem services globally.” As biodiversity decreases there will undoubtedly be alarming consequences. This includes disruptions in the food chains – for example, changes in the insect species will decrease plant pollination.

Further, the diminished plant diversity will impact our ability to produce essential medications to care for our aging population. Finally, naturally occurring biodiversity protects our planet from natural disasters, without which, our forests and coastlines more vulnerable than ever.

As Theodore Roosevelt observed, “the loss is like the loss of a gallery of the masterpieces of the artists of old time.” The diversity and richness of life forms have value in themselves, as organs created by Nature to perceive Nature. With the extinction of a species the world itself has diminished in richness – for not only is it no longer perceived or approached in the way specific to the form of life, but the very interiority of Nature, we might say, has been reduced.
The administration’s response to what is currently happening is a moral outrage – and it was made possible by a readiness to forsake our epistemic duty to follow where the evidence leads. We are in the midst of a moral and epistemic crisis: this administration has to be held fully accountable for its foolish decision to ignore the reality and mock the scientific consensus.

Trump disgraces this nation everyday with his rejection of basic decency, his gross and palpable lying, his use of cruelty and humiliation in place of rational argumentation. In attacking the media and the freedom of the press, he disgraces his office: using it only to aggrandize himself and punish those with whom his personal interests conflict. But history may yet determine that his greatest disgrace was to willfully and gratuitously ignore the reality of anthropogenic climate change when the time to act was at its most critical.

https://asianlite.com/news/america/climate-change-epistemic-disaster/
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 02:47:32 PM by knarf »
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Offline knarf

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6thME - The Anthropocene Myth
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2017, 02:38:57 PM »
Blaming all of humanity for climate change lets capitalism off the hook.





Last year was the hottest year ever recorded. And yet, the latest figures show that in 2013 the source that provided the most new energy to the world economy wasn’t solar, wind power, or even natural gas or oil, but coal.

The growth in global emissions — from 1 percent a year in the 1990s to 3 percent so far this millennium — is striking. It’s an increase that’s paralleled our growing knowledge of the terrible consequences of fossil fuel usage.

Who’s driving us toward disaster? A radical answer would be the reliance of capitalists on the extraction and use of fossil energy. Some, however, would rather identify other culprits.

The earth has now, we are told, entered “the Anthropocene”: the epoch of humanity. Enormously popular — and accepted even by many Marxist scholars — the Anthropocene concept suggests that humankind is the new geological force transforming the planet beyond recognition, chiefly by burning prodigious amounts of coal, oil, and natural gas.

According to these scholars, such degradation is the result of humans acting out their innate predispositions, the inescapable fate for a planet subjected to humanity’s “business-as-usual.” Indeed, the proponents cannot argue otherwise, for if the dynamics were of a more contingent character, the narrative of an entire species ascending to biospheric supremacy would be difficult to defend.

Their story centers on a classic element: fire. The human species alone can manipulate fire, and therefore it is the one that destroys the climate; when our ancestors learned how to set things ablaze, they lit the fuse of business-as-usual. Here, write prominent climate scientists Michael Raupach and Josep Canadell, was “the essential evolutionary trigger for the Anthropocene,” taking humanity straight to “the discovery that energy could be derived not only from detrital biotic carbon but also from detrital fossil carbon, at first from coal.”

The “primary reason” for current combustion of fossil fuels is that “long before the industrial era, a particular primate species learned how to tap the energy reserves stored in detrital carbon.” My learning to walk at the age of one is the reason for me dancing salsa today; when humanity ignited its first dead tree, it could only lead, one million years later, to burning a barrel of oil.

Or, in the words of Will Steffen, Paul J. Crutzen, and John R. McNeill: “The mastery of fire by our ancestors provided humankind with a powerful monopolistic tool unavailable to other species, that put us firmly on the long path towards the Anthropocene.” In this narrative, the fossil economy is the creation precisely of humankind, or “the fire-ape, Homo pyrophilus,” as in Mark Lynas’s popularization of Anthropocene thinking, aptly titled The God Species.

Now, the ability to manipulate fire was surely a necessary condition for the commencement of large-scale fossil fuel combustion in Britain in the early nineteenth century. Was it also the cause of it?

The important thing to note here is the logical structure of the Anthropocene narrative: some universal trait of the species must be driving the geological epoch that is its own, or else it would be a matter of some subset of the species. But the story of human nature can come in many forms, both in the Anthropocene genre and in other parts of climate change discourse.

In an essay in the anthology Engaging with Climate Change, psychoanalyst John Keene offers an original explanation for why humans pollute the planet and refuse to stop. In infancy, the human being discharges waste matter without limits and learns that the caring mother will take away the poo and the wee and clean up the crotch.

As a result, human beings are accustomed to the practice of spoiling their surroundings: “I believe that these repeated encounters contribute to the complementary belief that the planet is an unlimited ‘toilet-mother’, capable of absorbing our toxic products to infinity.”

But where is the evidence for any sort of causal connection between fossil fuel combustion and infant defecation? What about all those generations of people who, up to the nineteenth century, mastered both arts but never voided the carbon deposits of the earth and dumped them into the atmosphere: were they shitters and burners just waiting to realize their full potentials?

It’s easy to poke fun at certain forms of psychoanalysis, but attempts to attribute business-as-usual to the properties of the human species are doomed to vacuity. That which exists always and everywhere cannot explain why a society diverges from all others and develop something new — such as the fossil economy that only emerged some two centuries ago but now has become so entrenched that we recognize it as the only ways human can produce.

As it happens, however, mainstream climate discourse is positively drenched in references to humanity as such, human nature, the human enterprise, humankind as one big villain driving the train. In The God Species, we read: “God’s power is now increasingly being exercised by us. We are the creators of life, but we are also its destroyers.” This is one of the most common tropes in the discourse: we, all of us, you and I, have created this mess together and make it worse each day.

Enter Naomi Klein, who in This Changes Everything expertly lays bare the myriad ways in which capital accumulation, in general, and its neoliberal variant, in particular, pour fuel on the fire now consuming the earth system. Giving short shrift to all the talk of a universal human evildoer, she writes, “We are stuck because the actions that would give us the best chance of averting catastrophe — and would benefit the vast majority — are extremely threatening to an elite minority that has a stranglehold over our economy, our political process, and most of our major media outlets.”

So how do the critics respond? “Klein describes the climate crisis as a confrontation between capitalism and the planet,” philosopher John Gray counters in the Guardian.”It would be be more accurate to describe the crisis as a clash between the expanding demands of humankind and a finite world.”

Gray isn’t alone. This schism is emerging as the great ideological divide in the climate debate, and proponents of the mainstream consensus are fighting back.

In the London Review of Books, Paul Kingsnorth, a British writer who has long argued that the environmental movement should disband and accept total collapse as our destiny, retorts: “Climate change isn’t something that a small group of baddies has foisted on us”; “in the end, we are all implicated.” This, Kingsnorth argues, “is a less palatable message than one which sees a brutal 1 per cent screwing the planet and a noble 99 per cent opposing them, but it is closer to reality.”

Is it closer to reality? Six simple facts demonstrate the opposite.

First, the steam engine is widely, and correctly, seen as the original locomotive of business-as-usual, by which the combustion of coal was first linked to the ever-expanding spiral of capitalist commodity production.

While it is admittedly banal to point out, steam engines were not adopted by some natural-born deputies of the human species. The choice of a prime mover in commodity production could not possibly have been the prerogative of that species, since it presupposed, for a start, the institution of wage labor. It was the owners of the means of production who installed the novel prime mover. A tiny minority even in Britain — all-male, all-white — this class of people comprised an infinitesimal fraction of humanity in the early nineteenth century.

Second, when British imperialists penetrated into northern India around the same time, they stumbled on coal seams that were, to their great amazement, already known to the natives — indeed, the Indians had the basic knowledge of how to dig, burn, and generate heat from coal. And yet they cared nothing for the fuel.

The British, on the other hand, desperately wanted the coal out of the ground — to propel the steamboats by which they transported the treasure and raw materials extracted from the Indian peasants towards the metropolis, and their own surplus of cotton goods towards the inland markets. The problem was, no workers volunteered to step into the mines. Hence the British had to organize a system of indentured labor, forcing farmers into the pits so as to acquire the fuel for the exploitation of India.

Third, most of the twenty-first century emissions explosion originates from the People’s Republic of China. The driver of that explosion is apparent: it is not the growth of the Chinese population, nor its household consumption, nor its public expenditures, but the tremendous expansion of manufacturing industry, implanted in China by foreign capital to extract surplus value out of local labor, perceived around the turn of the millennium as extraordinarily cheap and disciplined.

That shift was part of a global assault on wages and working conditions — workers all over the world being weighed down by the threat of capital’s relocation to their Chinese substitutes, who could only be exploited by means of fossil energy as a necessary material substratum. The ensuing emissions explosion is the atmospheric legacy of class warfare.

Fourth, there is probably no other industry that encounters so much popular opposition wherever it wants to set up shop as the oil and gas industry. As Klein chronicles so well, local communities are in revolt against fracking and pipelines and exploration from Alaska to the Niger Delta, from Greece to Ecuador. But against them stands an interest recently expressed with exemplary clarity by Rex Tillerson, president and CEO of ExxonMobil: “My philosophy is to make money. If I can drill and make money, then that’s what I want to do.” This is the spirit of fossil capital incarnate.

Fifth, advanced capitalist states continue relentlessly to enlarge and deepen their fossil infrastructures — building new highways, new airports, new coal-fired power-plants — always attuned to the interests of capital, hardly ever consulting their people on these matters. Only the truly blind intellectual, of the Paul Kingsnorth-type, can believe that “we are all implicated” in such policies.

How many Americans are involved in the decisions to give coal a larger share in the electric power sector, so that the carbon intensity of the US economy rose in 2013? How many Swedes should be blamed for the ramming through of a new highway around Stockholm — the greatest infrastructure project in modern Swedish history — or their government’s assistance to coal power plants in South Africa?

The most extreme illusions about the perfect democracy of the market are required to maintain the notion of “us all” driving the train.

Sixth, and perhaps most obvious: few resources are so unequally consumed as energy. The 19 million inhabitants of New York State alone consume more energy than the 900 million inhabitants of sub-Saharan Africa. The difference in energy consumption between a subsistence pastoralist in the Sahel and an average Canadian may easily be larger than 1,000-fold — and that is an average Canadian, not the owner of five houses, three SUVs, and a private airplane.

A single average US citizen emits more than 500 citizens of Ethiopia, Chad, Afghanistan, Mali, or Burundi; how much an average US millionaire emits — and how much more than an average US or Cambodian worker — remains to be counted. But a person’s imprint on the atmosphere varies tremendously depending on where she is born. Humanity, as a result, is far too slender an abstraction to carry the burden of culpability.

Ours is the geological epoch not of humanity, but of capital. Of course, a fossil economy does not necessarily have to be capitalist: the Soviet Union and its satellite states had their own growth mechanisms connected to coal, oil, and gas. They were no less dirty, sooty, or emissions-intensive — perhaps rather more — than their Cold War adversaries. So why focus on capital? What reason is there to delve into the destructiveness of capital, when the Communist states performed at least as abysmally?

In medicine, a similar question would perhaps be, why concentrate research efforts on cancer rather than smallpox? Both can be fatal! But only one still exists. History has closed the parenthesis around the Soviet system, and so we are back at the beginning, where the fossil economy is coextensive with the capitalist mode of production — only now on a global scale.

The Stalinist version deserves its own investigations, and on its own terms (the mechanisms of growth being of their own kind). But we do not live in the Vorkuta coal-mining gulag of the 1930s. Our ecological reality, encompassing us all, is the world founded by steam-powered capital, and there are alternative courses that an environmentally responsible socialism could take. Hence capital, not humanity as such.

Naomi Klein’s success and recent street mobilizations notwithstanding, this remains a fringe view. Climate science, politics, and discourse are constantly couched in the Anthropocene narrative: species-thinking, humanity-bashing, undifferentiated collective self-flagellation, appeal to the general population of consumers to mend their ways and other ideological pirouettes that only serve to conceal the driver.

To portray certain social relations as the natural properties of the species is nothing new. Dehistoricizing, universalizing, eternalizing, and naturalizing a mode of production specific to a certain time and place — these are the classic strategies of ideological legitimation.

They block off any prospect for change. If business-as-usual is the outcome of human nature, how can we even imagine something different? It is perfectly logical that advocates of the Anthropocene and associated ways of thinking either champion false solutions that steer clear of challenging fossil capital — such as geoengineering in the case of Mark Lynas and Paul Crutzen, the inventor of the Anthropocene concept — or preach defeat and despair, as in the case of Kingsnorth.

According to the latter, “it is now clear that stopping climate change is impossible” — and, by the way, building a wind farm is just as bad as opening another coal mine, for both desecrate the landscape.

Without antagonism, there can never be any change in human societies. Species-thinking on climate change only induces paralysis. If everyone is to blame, then no one is.


https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/03/anthropocene-capitalism-climate-change/
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 02:48:27 PM by knarf »
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6thME - Are We Doomed? Let’s Have a Talk.
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2017, 04:19:13 AM »
We're not all ready to have the same conversation, but perhaps that's a good place to start


A placard warning against the dangers of climate change used in the March on Washington stands by an overflowing garbage can on Saturday, January 21, 2017. (Photo by Epics/Getty Images)

My most recent essay, in which I discussed a highly publicized controversy over the efficacy of plans for a comprehensive transition to an all-renewable energy future, garnered some strong responses. “If you are right,” one Facebook commenter opined, “we are doomed. Fortunately you are not right.” (The commenter didn’t explain why.) What had I said to provoke an expectation of cataclysmic oblivion? Simply that there is probably no technically and financially feasible energy pathway to enable those of us in highly industrialized countries to maintain current levels of energy usage very far into the future.

My piece happened to be published right around the same time New York Magazine released a controversial article, titled "The Uninhabitable Earth," in which author David Wallace Wells portrayed a dire future if the most pessimistic climate change models turn to reality. “It is, I promise, worse than you think,” wrote Wells. “If your anxiety about global warming is dominated by fears of sea-level rise, you are barely scratching the surface of what terrors are possible, even within the lifetime of a teenager today.” Wells’s article drew rebukes from—of all people—climate scientists, who pointed out a few factual errors, but also insisted that scaring the public just doesn’t help. “Importantly, fear does not motivate,” responded Michael Mann with Susan Joy Hassol and Tom Toles, “and appealing to it is often counter-productive as it tends to distance people from the problem, leading them to disengage, doubt and even dismiss it.”

"We humans have overshot Earth’s long-term carrying capacity for our species..."It’s true: apocalyptic warnings don’t move most people. Or, rather, they move most people away from the source of discomfort, so they simply tune out. But it’s also true that people feel a sense of deep, unacknowledged unease when they are fed “solutions” that they instinctively know are false or insufficient.

Others came to Wells’s defense. Margaret Klein Salamon, a clinical psychologist and founder of the climate action group The Climate Mobilization, which advocates for starting a “World War II-scale” emergency mobilization to convert from fossil fuels, writes, “it is OK, indeed imperative, to tell the whole, frightening story. . . . t’s the job of those of us trying to protect humanity and restore a safe climate to tell the truth about the climate crisis and help people process and channel their own feelings—not to preemptively try to manage and constrain those feelings.”

So: Are we doomed if we can’t maintain current and growing energy levels? And are we doomed anyway due to now-inevitable impacts of climate change?

First, the good news. With regard to energy, we should keep in mind the fact that today’s Americans use roughly twice as much per capita as their great-grandparents did in 1925. While people in that era enjoyed less mobility and fewer options for entertainment and communication than we do today, they nevertheless managed to survive and even thrive. And we now have the ability to provide many services (such as lighting) far more efficiently, so it should be possible to reduce per-capita energy usage dramatically while still maintaining a lifestyle that would be considered more than satisfactory by members of previous generations and by people in many parts of the world today. And reducing energy usage would make a whole raft of problems—climate change, resource depletion, the challenge of transitioning to renewable energy sources—much easier to solve.

The main good news with regard to climate change that I can point to (as I did in  this essay posted in June) is that economically recoverable fossil fuel reserves are consistent only with lower-emissions climate change scenarios. As BP and other credible sources for coal, oil, and natural gas reserves figures show, and as more and more researchers are pointing out, the worst-case climate scenarios associated with “business as usual” levels of carbon emissions are in fact unrealistic.

Now, the bad news. While we could live perfectly well with less energy, that’s not what the managers of our economy want. They want growth. Our entire economy is structured to require constant, compounded growth of GDP, and for all practical purposes raising the GDP means using more energy. While fringe economists and environmentalists have for years been proposing ways to back away from our growth addiction (for example, by using alternative economic indices such as Gross National Happiness), none of these proposals has been put into widespread effect. As things now stand, if growth falters the economy crashes. 

There’s bad climate news as well: even with current levels of atmospheric greenhouse gases, we’re seeing unacceptable and worsening impacts—raging fires, soaring heat levels, and melting icecaps. And there are hints that self-reinforcing feedbacks maybe kicking in: an example is the release of large amounts of methane from thawing tundra and oceanic hydrates, which could lead to a short-term but steep spike in warming.  Also, no one is sure if current metrics of climate sensitivity (used to estimate the response of the global climate system to a given level of forcing) are accurate, or whether the climate is actually more sensitive than we have assumed. There’s some worrisome evidence the latter is case.

But let’s step back a bit. If we’re interested in signs of impending global crisis, there’s no need to stop with just these two global challenges. The world is losing 25 billion tons of topsoil a year due to current industrial agricultural practices; if we don’t deal with that issue, civilization still crash even if we do manage to ace our energy and climate test. Humanity is also over-using fresh water: ancient aquifers are depleting, while other water sources are being polluted. If we don’t deal with our water crisis, we still crash. Species are going extinct at a thousand times the pre-industrial rate; if we don’t deal with the biodiversity dilemma, we still crash. Then there are social and economic problems that could cause nations to crumble even if we manage to protect the environment; this threat category includes the menaces of over-reliance on debt and increasing economic inequality.

If we attack each of these problems piecemeal with technological fixes (for example, with desalination technology to solve the water crisis or geo-engineering to stabilize the climate) we may still crash because our techno-fixes are likely to have unintended consequences, as all technological interventions do. Anyway, the likelihood of successfully identifying and deploying all the needed fixes in time is vanishingly small.

Many problems are converging at once because society is a complex system, and the challenges we have been discussing are aspects of a systemic crisis.

Many problems are converging at once because society is a complex system, and the challenges we have been discussing are aspects of a systemic crisis. A useful way to frame an integrated understanding of the 21st century survival challenge is this: we humans have overshot Earth’s long-term carrying capacity for our species. We’ve been able to do this due to a temporary subsidy of cheap, bountiful energy from fossil fuels, which enabled us to stretch nature’s limits and to support a far larger overall population than would otherwise be possible. But now we are starting to see supply constraints for those fuels, just as the side effects of burning enormous amounts of coal, oil, and natural gas are also coming into view. Meanwhile, using cheap energy to expand resource-extractive and waste-generating economic processes is leading to biodiversity loss; the depletion of soil, water, and minerals; and environmental pollution of many kinds. Just decarbonizing energy, while necessary, doesn’t adequately deal with systemic overshoot. Only a reduction of population and overall resource consumption, along with a rapid reduction in our reliance on fossil fuels and a redesign of industrial systems, can do that.

Economic inequality is a systemic problem too. As we’ve grown our economy, those who were in position to invest in industrial expansion or to loan money to others have reaped the majority of the rewards, while those who got by through selling their time and labor (or whose common cultural heritage was simply appropriated by industrialists) have fallen behind. There’s no technological fix for inequality; dealing with it will require redesigning our economic system and redistributing wealth. Those in wealthy nations would, on average, have to adjust their living standards downward.

Now, can we do all of this without a crash? Probably not. Indeed, many economists would regard the medicine (population reduction, a decline in per-capita energy use, and economic redistribution) as worse than whatever aspects of the disease they are willing to acknowledge. Environmentalists and human rights advocates would disagree. Which is to say, there’s really no way out. Whether we stick with business as usual, or attempt a dramatic multi-pronged intervention, our current “normal” way of life is toast.

Accepting that a crash is more or less inevitable is a big step, psychologically speaking. I call this toxic knowledge: one cannot “un-know” that the current world system hangs by a thread, and this understanding can lead to depression. In some ways, the systemic crisis we face is analogous to the individual existential crisis of life and death, which we each have to confront eventually. Some willfully ignore their own mortality for as long as possible; others grasp at a belief in the afterlife. Still others seek to create meaning and purpose by making a positive difference in the lives of those around them with whatever time they have. Such efforts don’t alter the inevitability of death; however, contributing to one’s community appears to enhance well-being in many ways beyond that of merely prolonging life.

In some ways, the systemic crisis we face is analogous to the individual existential crisis of life and death, which we each have to confront eventually.

But is a crash the same as doom?

Not necessarily. Our best hope at this point would seem to be a controlled crash that enables partial recovery at a lower level of population and resource use, and that therefore doesn’t lead to complete and utter oblivion (human extinction or close to it). Among those who understand the systemic nature of our problems, the controlled crash option is the subject of what may be the most interesting and important conversation that’s taking place on the planet just now. But only informed people who have gotten over denial and self-delusion are part of it.

This discussion started in the 1970s, though I wasn’t part of it then; I joined a couple of decades later. There is no formal membership; the conversation takes place through and among a patchwork of small organizations and scattered individuals. They don’t all know each other and there is no secret handshake. Some have publicly adopted the stance that a global crash is inevitable; most soft-pedal that message on their organizational websites but are privately plenty worried. During the course of the conversation so far, two (not mutually exclusive) strategies have emerged.

The first strategy envisions convincing the managers and power holders of the world to invest in a no-regrets insurance plan. Some systems thinkers who understand our linked global crises are offering to come up with a back-pocket checklist for policy makers, for moments when financial or environmental crisis hits: how, under such circumstances, might the managerial elite be able to prevent, say, a stock market crash from triggering food, energy, and social crises as well? A set of back-up plans wouldn’t require detailed knowledge of when or how crisis will erupt. It wouldn’t even require much of a systemic understanding of global overshoot. It would simply require willingness on the part of societal power holders to agree that there are real or potential threats to global order, and to accept the offer of help. At the moment, those pursuing this strategy are working mostly covertly, for reasons that are not hard to discern.

The second strategy consists of working within communities to build more societal resilience from the ground up. It is easier to get traction with friends and neighbors than with global power holders, and it’s within communities that political decisions are made closest to where the impact is felt. My own organization, Post Carbon Institute, has chosen to pursue this strategy via a series of books, the Community Resilience Guides;  the “Think Resilience” video series; and our forthcoming compendium, The Community Resilience Reader.  Rob Hopkins, who originated the Transition Towns movement, has been perhaps the most public, eloquent, and upbeat proponent of the local resilience strategy, but there are countless others scattered across the globe.

Somehow, the work of resilience building (whether top-down or bottom-up) must focus not just on maintaining supplies of food, water, energy, and other basic necessities, but also on sustaining social cohesion—a culture of understanding, tolerance, and inquiry—during times of great stress. While it’s true that people tend to pull together in remarkable ways during wars and natural disasters, sustained hard times can lead to scapegoating and worse.

Most people are not party to the conversation, not aware that it is happening, and unaware even that such a conversation is warranted. Among those who are worried about the state of the world, most are content to pursue or support efforts to keep crises from occurring by working via political parties, religious organizations, or non-profit advocacy orgs on issues such as climate change, food security, and economic inequality. There is also a small but rapidly growing segment of society that feels disempowered as the era of economic growth wanes, and that views society’s power holders as evil and corrupt. These dispossessed—whether followers of ISIS or Infowars—would prefer to “shake things up,” even to the point of bringing society to destruction, rather than suffer the continuation of the status quo. Unfortunately, this last group may have the easiest path of all.

Can we succeed? It depends on how one defines “success”...

By comparison, the number of those involved in the conversation is exceedingly small, countable probably in the hundreds of thousands, certainly not millions. Can we succeed? It depends on how one defines “success”—as the ability to maintain, for a little longer, an inherently unsustainable global industrial system? Or as the practical reduction in likely suffering on the part of the survivors of the eventual crash? A related query one often hears after environmental lectures is, Are we doing enough? If “Enough” means “enough to avert a system crash,” then the answer is no: it’s unlikely that anyone can deliver that outcome now. The question should be, What can we do—not to save a way of life that is unsalvageable, but to make a difference to the people and other species in harm’s way?

This is not a conversation about the long-term trajectory of human cultural evolution, though that’s an interesting subject for speculation. Assuming there are survivors, what will human society look like following the crises ensuing from climate change and the end of fossil fuels and capitalism? David Fleming’s book, Surviving the Future, and John Michael Greer’s, The Ecotechnic Future, both  offer useful thoughts in this regard. My own view is that it’s hard for us to envision what comes next because our imaginations are bounded by the reality we have known. What awaits will likely be as far removed from from modern industrial urban life as Iron-Age agrarian empires were from hunting-and-gathering bands. We are approaching one of history’s great discontinuities. The best we can do under the circumstances is to get our priorities and values straight (protect the vulnerable, preserve the best of what we have collectively achieved, and live a life that’s worthy) and put one foot in front of the other.

The conversation I’m pointing to here is about fairly short-term actions. And it doesn’t lend itself to building a big movement. For that, you need villains to blame and promises of revived national or tribal glory. For those engaged in the conversation, there’s only hard work and the satisfaction of honestly facing our predicament with an attitude of curiosity, engagement, and compassion. For us, threats of doom or promises of utopia are distractions or cop-outs.

Only those drawn to the conversation by temperament and education are likely to take it up. Advertising may not work. But having a few more hands on deck, and a few more resources to work with, can only help.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/07/26/are-we-doomed-lets-have-talk
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6thME - Our Aversion to Doom and Gloom Is Dooming Us
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2017, 04:21:42 AM »
I worked for over 35 years in the environmental field, and one of the central debates I encountered was whether to "tell it like it is," and risk spreading doom and gloom, or to focus on a more optimistic message, even when optimism wasn't necessarily warranted.

The optimists nearly always won this debate. For the record, I was—and am—a doom and gloomer.  Actually, I like to think I'm a realist. I believe that understating the problems we face leads to understated—and inadequate responses.  I also believe that people, when dealt with honestly, have responded magnificently, and will do so again, if and when called. Witness World War II, for example, when Churchill told the Brits, "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat." In those words, he helped ignite one of the most noble and dedicated periods of unity and resistance in all the annals of human endeavor.

Finally, I believe that the principles of risk management dictate that when the consequences of our actions —or our inactions—are pervasive, long lasting, irreversible and potentially devastating, we should assume worst-case outcomes.  That's why people get health insurance; it’s why they purchase insurance for their homes; it’s why they get life insurance. No one assumes they’ll get sick, that their house will burn down, or that they’re about to die, but it makes sense to hedge against these events.  It’s why we build in huge margins of safety when we design bridges or airplanes. You can’t undo an airplane crash, or reverse a bridge failure.

And you can't restore a livable climate once it's been compromised.  Not in anything other than geologic timeframes.

Yet we routinely understate the threat that climate change poses, and reject attempts to characterize the full extent of the potential for catastrophe it poses. And it's killing us.

David Wallace-Wells' recent article in the New York magazine, The Uninhabitable Earth, is a case in point.  It was an attempt to describe the worst-case scenario for climate change.  Here's the opening sentences to give you an idea of what Mr. Wallace-Wells had to say:

    It is, I promise, worse than you think. If your anxiety about global warming is dominated by fears of sea-level rise, you are barely scratching the surface of what terrors are possible, even within the lifetime of a teenager today.

Predictably, a large part of the scientific community reacted with hostility, and environmentalists were essentially silent. For example, Climate Feedback published a critique of Wallace-Well's article by sixteen climate scientists, leading with Michael Mann, originator of the famous hockey stick, which graphically showed how rapidly the Earth was warming. Here’s part of what Dr. Mann had to say:

    The evidence that climate change is a serious problem that we must contend with now, is overwhelming on its own. There is no need to overstate the evidence, particularly when it feeds a paralyzing narrative of doom and hopelessness.

The last part of Dr. Mann's statement may explain the real reason the environmental and scientific communities reacted so hostilely to Wallace-Well's article, and why they generally avoid gloom and doom, even when the news is gloomy—the notion that presenting information that details just how bad climate change could be, leads to "paralysis."

This, together with scientists' tendency to stick to the most defensible positions and the scenarios that are accepted by the mainstream—what climate scientist James Hansen calls dangerous scientific reticence—probably explain why the scientific community has tended to understate the threat of climate change, although few would describe Dr. Mann as reticent.

And it should be noted that Mr. Wallace-Well's did overstate some of the science. For example, given out current understanding of methane and carbon releases from permafrost, it appears as though it would take much longer to play out than Wallace-Wells suggested, although it likely would add as much as 2°C to projected warming by 2100. But for the most part, he simply took worst-case forecasts and used them. As Dr. Benjamin Horton—one of the scientists commenting on the Wallace-Wells article put it, "Most statements in the article are based on peer-reviewed literature."

One of the reason worst-case projections seem so dire, is that the scientific community—and especially the IPCC—has been loath to use them. For the record, ex-ante analysis of previous forecasts with actual changes show a trend that is nearer to—or worse than—the worst-case forecasts than they are to the mid-range.

The article also forecast some of the social, demographic, and security consequences of climate change that can’t be scientifically verified, but which comport with projections made by our own national security experts.

For example, in this years' Worldwide Threat Assessment of the US Intelligence Community, climate change was identified as a "threat multiplier" and Dan Coats, Director of National Intelligence, said in testimony presented to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in May of this year:

    Climate change influences the entire geostrategic landscape. In that sense, one could  walk through the entire threat assessment report and identify ways in which climate  change will intersect with nearly every risk identified, and in most cases, make them worse.

Director Coats specifically highlighted health security, terrorism and nuclear proliferation as threats that climate change would exacerbate. This is coming from the Trump administration, which has been censoring climate-related information coming out of NOAA and EPA.  It’s a measure of how seriously the national security community takes the threat of climate change that they fought to keep the issue above the political fray.

Yet here again, the scientific community took issue with these claims, because they were conjecture.  Never mind that those whose job it is to assess these kinds of risks found the forecasts likely and actionable. Scientists want data and the certainty it brings, not extrapolation.

So what's the gap between future worst-case and the more typically used mid-range projections the media and scientists favor?  It's huge, and consequential.  I've pointed out some of the risky—if not absurd—assumptions  underlying the Paris Agreement in the past, but let's briefly outline some numbers that highlight the difference between what's typically discussed in the media, with projections based on worst-case—but entirely plausible—forecasts.

After Paris, there was a lot of attention paid to two targets: a limit of less than 2°C warming, and a more aggressive limit of no more than 1.5°C warming.  What was less well known and discussed was the fact that the Agreement would have only limited warming to 3.5°C by 2100, using the IPCC's somewhat optimistic assumptions.

What is virtually unknown by most of the public and undiscussed by scientists and the media is that even before the US dropped out of the Treaty, the worst-case temperature increase under the Treaty could have been nearly twice that.

Here’s why.

As noted, the 3.5°C figure had a number of conservative assumptions built into it, including the fact that there is a 34 percent chance that warming will exceed that, and the idea that we could pass on the problem to our children and their children by assuming that they would create an as yet unknown technology that would extract massive amounts of carbon from the atmosphere in a cost-effective way, and safely and permanently sequester it, thus allowing us to exceed the targets for a limited amount of time.

But the fact is, some projections found that temperature increase resulting from meeting the Paris targets would exceed 4°C by 2100, even if we continued to make modest progress after meeting them – something the Treaty doesn’t require. The IPCC forecasts also ignored feedbacks, and research shows that just 3 of these will add another 2.5°C of warming by 2100, bringing the total to more than 6.5°C (or nearly 12°F). At this point, we're talking about trying to live on an essentially alien planet.

Finally, there's evidence that the Earth's natural sinks are being compromised by the warming that's happened so far, and this means that more of what we emit will remain in the atmosphere, causing it to warm much more than the IPCC models have forecasted. This could (not would) make Wallace-Well's thesis not only plausible, but likely.

But rather than discussing these entirely plausible forecasts, the media, environmentalists and too many scientists, would rather focus on a more optimistic message, and avoid "doom and gloom."

What they're actually doing is tantamount to playing Russian Roulette with our children's future with two bullets in the chamber. Yes, the odds are that it won't go off, but is this the kind of risk we should be taking with our progeny's future?

There is something paternalistic and elitist about this desire to spare the poor ignorant masses the gory details.  It is condescending at best, self-defeating at worst.  After all, if the full nature of the challenge we face is not known, we cannot expect people take the measures needed to meet it.

I believe now, and I have always believed, that humans are possessed with an inherent wisdom, and that, given the right information, they will make the right choices.

As an aside, Trump is now President because the Democrats followed the elitist and paternalistic path of not trusting the people – that and their decision to put corporate interests above the interests of citizens.

Watching Sanders stump against the Republican's immoral tax cut for the rich disguised as a health care bill, shows the power of a little honest doom and gloom.

We could use a lot more of it across the political spectrum.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/07/19/our-aversion-doom-and-gloom-dooming-us
HUMANS ARE STILL EVOLVING! Our communities blog is at https://openmind693.wordpress.com

Offline knarf

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6thME - Can the World Defend Itself from Omnicide? by Ralph Nader
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2017, 04:25:19 AM »
Notice how more frequently we hear scientists tell us that we’re “wholly unprepared” for this peril or for that rising fatality toll? Turning away from such warnings may reduce immediate tension or anxiety, but only weakens the public awareness and distracts us from addressing the great challenges of our time, such as calamitous climate change, pandemics, and the rise of a host of other self-inflicted disasters.

Here are some warnings about rising and looming risks.

    The opioid epidemic is here now, and poised to become further exacerbated. It is the US’s deadliest drug overdose crisis ever, taking over 1000 lives a week. Even that figure is underestimated, according to a report by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). These fatalities, many of them affecting people in the prime of their life, stem from legally prescribed drugs taken to relieve chronic pain. Tragically ironic!

Congress is figuring out how to budget for many billions of dollars to combat this toll – much greater than the deaths by traffic crashes or AIDS. Republican and Democratic state officials are suing the drug companies for excessive, misleading promotion for profit. Still, the awful toll keeps rising.

    Cyberattacks and cyberwarfare are increasingly becoming a facet of daily life. Although IBM and other firms are trying to develop more effective defenses, the current scale of cyberattacks is “crazy”, according to specialist Christopher Ahlberg. As he said in a recent interview with the Wall Street Journal, “If you told anybody 10 years ago about what’s going on now, they wouldn’t believe it.”

Negotiations are not even underway for a cyberwarfare treaty among nations. The sheer scale and horrific implications of this weaponry seems to induce societies to bury their heads in the sand. Former ABC TV host of Nightline, Ted Koppel, discusses this emerging threat in his recent, acclaimed book, “Lights Out: A Cyberattack, A Nation Unprepared”:

 “Imagine a blackout lasting not days but weeks or months. There would be no running water, no sewage, no electric heat, refrigeration, or light. Food and medical supplies would dwindle. Banks would not function. The devices we rely on would go dark. The fact is, one well-placed attack on the electrical grid could cripple much of our infrastructure. Leaders across government, industry and the military know this…yet there is no national plan for the aftermath.”

Former Secretary of Defense and CIA Director, Leon Panetta, says Koppel’s book is “an important wake-up call for America.” Yet neither he nor the enormous military-industrial complex, of which he remains a supportive part, are doing much of anything about this doomsday threat to national security. The big manufacturers are too busy demanding ever more taxpayer money for additional nukes, aircraft carriers, submarines, fighter planes, missiles and other weaponry of an increasingly bygone age.

    “The World is Not Ready for the Next Pandemic,” headlined a recent Time Magazine article. The authors note that the “US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention ranks H7N9 as the flu strain with the greatest potential to cause a pandemic – an infectious disease outbreak that goes global.” They predict the disease could claim “tens of millions” of lives.

 In between his Twitter-tantrums, President Trump approved an insanely myopic proposed budget cut of over $1 billion in the CDC’s programs used to predict and combat rising pandemics from China, African countries and elsewhere. Fortunately cooler heads may prevail in Congress, backed by some private foundations.

The number of new diseases per decade, Time reports, has increased nearly fourfold over the past 60 years. Antibiotics are being overridden by adaptive mutations of bacteria. Dr. Trevor Mundel of the Gates Foundation, asserts, “There’s just no incentive for any company to make pandemic vaccines to store on shelves.” That profit-driven rejection is exactly why government must act to produce the drugs, as the Department of Defense it has successfully done with new anti-malaria drugs in the seventies and eighties.

University of Minnesota Professor Michael Osterholm, one of the nation’s leading experts on infectious diseases, warns that for all our world-class scientists and high-tech isolation units, the US health care system is not ready for the stresses of a major pandemic. Not even close.

    It isn’t just Elon Musk, founder of the Tesla company, who is warning that the advent of Artificial Intelligence (AI) is “the greatest risk we face as a civilization.” In 2015, hundreds of other scientists, like renowned physicist Stephen Hawking, and technologists, like Steve Wozniak, signed a public letter that was a one day story, instead of an alarmed world turning it into a galvanizing event. Professor Hawking warns us: “Success in creating Artificial Intelligence would be the biggest event in human history. Unfortunately, it might also be the last, unless we learn how to avoid the risks. In the near term, world militaries are considering autonomous-weapon systems that can choose and eliminate targets.” We humans, Hawking adds, “are limited by slow biological evolution, couldn’t compete and would be superseded by AI” In short, the robots race out of control, become self-actuating and are not held back by any moral boundaries.

From Lincoln to Einstein, we have been counseled that new situations require new thinking. A massive reversal of our world’s priorities toward reverence for life and posterity, toward diplomacy and waging peace, toward legal and ethical frameworks for exploding science and technology (including biotechnology and nanotechology) must receive our focus, from families nurturing their children to the philosophers, ethical specialists, engineers and scientists pausing from their exponential discoveries to ponder the serious adverse consequences of their creations.

Our present educational systems – from Harvard Law School, MIT to K-12 – are not rising to these occasions for survival. Our mass media, wallowing in trivia, entertainment, advertisements and political insults, is not holding the politicians accountable to serious levels of public trust and societal safety. Time for new movements awakening our best angels to foresee and forestall. Do any potential leaders at all levels want to be first responders?

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/07/27/can-world-defend-itself-omnicide
HUMANS ARE STILL EVOLVING! Our communities blog is at https://openmind693.wordpress.com

Online RE

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Re: 6thME - Our Aversion to Doom and Gloom Is Dooming Us
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2017, 04:29:46 AM »
I don't think you can say Diners have an "aversion to Doom & Gloom".  It's the entire topic of the website.

Unfortunately of course, we are not all that popular.

RE
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Offline knarf

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Re: 6thME - Our Aversion to Doom and Gloom Is Dooming Us
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2017, 04:45:21 AM »
I don't think you can say Diners have an "aversion to Doom & Gloom".  It's the entire topic of the website.

Unfortunately of course, we are not all that popular.

RE

It's not about the diner. It's about some reporter (common dreams- which is fairly big ) spreading the 6thME meme (truth). Just a little bite out of the TBTB.
HUMANS ARE STILL EVOLVING! Our communities blog is at https://openmind693.wordpress.com

 

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