AuthorTopic: You want to walkabout it?  (Read 18809 times)

Offline RE

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2017, 06:15:13 AM »
Which brings me to my decision to go trucking. 

Look, I Been There, Done That, Own the T-Shirt.

I will tell you one more time this life fucking SUCKS on all levels, and that is even if you are single with no kids.

Get a Janitorial Bizness going.  It will be a fuckload better than driving around a fucking truck.

RE
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2017, 06:18:06 AM »
First off I want to say that I really appreciate the suggestions.  I think the cleaning biz would be a good move, but I ain't doin' it.  I'll be damned if I'm going to clean up after rich fuckers...it's bad enough cutting their grass, shrubbery, and putting mulch down for them.  It is a good idea, one that is feasible, but I'm not going to be a janitor. 

The problem here is you think this work is "beneath" you, which it is.

BUT
.. you can make $80K/year doing it!

RE

I won't try to lie.  You are probably correct with that assessment.  However it's not that simple.  The Buddhist in me knows that we all have the Buddha nature within.  We are all people, and as such we bleed the same, hurt the same, laugh the same...

I don't think I'm better than anyone else.  I did work on an ambulance for 8 years after all.  What, gettin' shit, piss, blood, puss, spit, and every other manor of body fluids on me is somehow above a janitor?  In a lot of ways being a medic on an ambulance is about as low as shit can sink in our society.  I don't think I'm better then a cleaning service. 

Maybe I can make 80k doing that...as in it might be theoretically possible, but not by myself.  To do that I'd be gone at least 6 days a week working, and I'd hardly ever see my kids under that scheme, and I'd be fuckin' wore out when I was home.  It would be very difficult to do that and landscape at the same time. 

I realize that most people can't hack the life of a trucker.  Most people can't thrive in that type of isolation.  I'm not most people.  My father did it, his father did it, his brothers did it...to a certain extent it's already in my blood.  As in I'm genetically predisposed to live the life of a trucker. 

I don't think I'm better than anybody else, so let's not go down that road RE.  But just because I don't think I'm better then anybody else doesn't mean that I should work a shit job that may be "beneath me."  Landscaper, janitor, medic, trucker...what's the difference?  Nothing glamorous about any of it. 

At least driving a truck I'll mostly be left the fuck alone.  Worst case I do my year and then I'll have a cdl to fall back on for the rest of my life.  I'll have a job whenever I want one, and a job that pays decent at that. 

Offline luciddreams

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2017, 06:26:04 AM »
Which brings me to my decision to go trucking. 

Look, I Been There, Done That, Own the T-Shirt.

I will tell you one more time this life fucking SUCKS on all levels, and that is even if you are single with no kids.

Get a Janitorial Bizness going.  It will be a fuckload better than driving around a fucking truck.

RE

I know you got the T-shirt RE.  Good for you. 

Maybe I'll be on here bitchin' about how bad it sucks in a few months.  I'll have plenty of time to bitch on the Diner won't I? 

GM is all about it.  We've gone back and forth with the idea.  We've talked about it over and over again.  She's aware I'll be gone weeks at a time and only home a couple of days at a stretch.  The plan is to go OTR to get the experience...to be considered experienced by the industry.  Then I can get either a dedicated route with a company around here, or get a local job driving a dump truck or delivering groceries.  It's worth gambling on a year away from my family if it results in a career that pays a living wage that I can muster. 

I'm not going to start a janitorial service RE. 

Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2017, 06:57:29 AM »
Nothing wrong with trucking.  It is as you say one of the last well paid trades that does not involve years of college. The homestead game is expensive.  We were lucky we built a nest egg before kids and the move so the land and house shell went up from savings. It's a small town so we just moved in at that stage and nobody cared.
I wish you luck. 
David B.
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Offline RE

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2017, 07:04:21 AM »
Which brings me to my decision to go trucking. 

Look, I Been There, Done That, Own the T-Shirt.

I will tell you one more time this life fucking SUCKS on all levels, and that is even if you are single with no kids.

Get a Janitorial Bizness going.  It will be a fuckload better than driving around a fucking truck.

RE

I know you got the T-shirt RE.  Good for you. 

Maybe I'll be on here bitchin' about how bad it sucks in a few months.  I'll have plenty of time to bitch on the Diner won't I? 

GM is all about it.  We've gone back and forth with the idea.  We've talked about it over and over again.  She's aware I'll be gone weeks at a time and only home a couple of days at a stretch.  The plan is to go OTR to get the experience...to be considered experienced by the industry.  Then I can get either a dedicated route with a company around here, or get a local job driving a dump truck or delivering groceries.  It's worth gambling on a year away from my family if it results in a career that pays a living wage that I can muster. 

I'm not going to start a janitorial service RE.

There are other reasons not economic that might make this a good choice for you, though I doubt it.

If you do follow through with it, WATCH YOUR MIRRORS.

RE
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2017, 07:16:40 AM »
Nothing wrong with trucking.  It is as you say one of the last well paid trades that does not involve years of college. The homestead game is expensive.  We were lucky we built a nest egg before kids and the move so the land and house shell went up from savings. It's a small town so we just moved in at that stage and nobody cared.
I wish you luck. 
David B.

Thanks David.  Ultimately this is a way to get my family into a situation similar to yours.  I plan to buy land and a domicile with the proceeds...at some point...hopefully.  I plan to build a new permaculture/bamboo paradise.  On land that I own, and in a home that is ours.  It takes money.  I can get that money truckin', and so that's what I'm going to do.  There are other ways I could get that money...but none that I have seen that I will be able to stomach.  I'm betting that I can stomach truckin', so I'm going to find out...and soon.  If all goes well I'll be up in Wisconsin September 1st. 

Offline luciddreams

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2017, 07:18:51 AM »

There are other reasons not economic that might make this a good choice for you, though I doubt it.

If you do follow through with it, WATCH YOUR MIRRORS.

RE

Yeah, so what are those other reasons that you doubt? 

Offline K-Dog

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2017, 08:40:16 AM »
First off I want to say that I really appreciate the suggestions.  I think the cleaning biz would be a good move, but I ain't doin' it.  I'll be damned if I'm going to clean up after rich fuckers...it's bad enough cutting their grass, shrubbery, and putting mulch down for them.  It is a good idea, one that is feasible, but I'm not going to be a janitor. 

The problem here is you think this work is "beneath" you, which it is.

BUT
.. you can make $80K/year doing it!

RE

LD I gotta say this, the 'rich fucker' comment sets me off.

When I was 14 years old my father told me that the only money I was ever going to get I was going to have to get on my own.  He would not be giving me any, ever.  While not rich, he alway earned within the top 10% of Americans.  He was good to his word.  I have college degrees.  I paid for them.  For money I began working illegally when I was 14 at $1.00 an hour and I have never stopped except for unemployed times when I could not get a job. 

I stated that I considered $50 K a good wage 30 years ago but I did not see that wage for another 10+ years.  There was a time when I was young with a family and I was only earning $12K.  It has been a long time for me to see $100K and I look to you like one of your 'rich fuckers'.  I drive a beautiful German car that is made from quality.  Same kind Eddie has.  A model that is slightly out of reach for most Americans.

My profession is electronics which I chose deliberately and entered at the bottom at $6.25 an hour.  I trained myself, school alone does not build competency.  There have been times in my life when sleep has been a luxury but I can design electronic devices at the circuit level, many different kinds. 

I planned my life so that I would eventually be debt free so at this point in my life so I could be saving enough to look after Mrs. Dog after we can't work anymore.  Now I am doing exactly that and hoping the creek don't rise before I can build up savings.  While I may strongly resemble a 'rich fucker' my bank account says otherwise.  The savings and loan crash around 2001 combined with September 11th to fuck with my 'career' hard.  That was before the 2007 crash which fucked with my 'career' even harder.

This rich fucker may look like he has it made in the shade but I cleaned plenty of toilets to get where I am.  I have been a lot of things and the only work that has ever been beneath me has been work that sucked for moral reasons.  Work that exploits and takes advantage of other people.  All other work has dignity and I think that anyone who would look down on anyone else for the kind of work they do is shit.

Collapse to some people is 'depressing' but to me it is simple reality.  I know that even in collapse we have to try and find individual success.  Get a plan so that somebody younger than you someday can call you a rich fucker regardless of everything else that happens.  I don't like the driving choice because it will take you away from being able to work a plan.  Become skilled at something that society needs.  That would be hard to do in the back of a truck.  While you work your plan try and have steady work that takes you home at night.  A mcjob can do it if you live right and have a place to live.  When I was younger I wanted to much too fast and did not appreciate that determination and patience pays off.  Fortunately I had both despite my bitching and yammering.  Now I see people wanting too much too fast all the time, people who don't appreciate that paying your dues is part of being qualified for some jobs, jobs everyone thinks they should just be able to walk into as if they were special flowers.

If I had to drive a truck I'd be reading and developing writing skills good enough to write a novel on downtime.  I don't know what else you could do travelling in the back of a truck to improve your lot.  If you were musical you could practice singing the blues but eventually your brain would turn to mush.  Driving truck does not stimulate the entire mind.  In time that will take a toll.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 08:52:35 AM by K-Dog »
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Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2017, 09:12:04 AM »
Thanks David.  Ultimately this is a way to get my family into a situation similar to yours.  I plan to buy land and a domicile with the proceeds...at some point...hopefully.  I plan to build a new permaculture/bamboo paradise.  On land that I own, and in a home that is ours.  It takes money.  I can get that money truckin', and so that's what I'm going to do.  There are other ways I could get that money...but none that I have seen that I will be able to stomach.  I'm betting that I can stomach truckin', so I'm going to find out...and soon.  If all goes well I'll be up in Wisconsin September 1st.
Here's something to consider: This self-driving truck has no room for a human driver — literally
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline luciddreams

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2017, 10:33:08 AM »
First off I want to say that I really appreciate the suggestions.  I think the cleaning biz would be a good move, but I ain't doin' it.  I'll be damned if I'm going to clean up after rich fuckers...it's bad enough cutting their grass, shrubbery, and putting mulch down for them.  It is a good idea, one that is feasible, but I'm not going to be a janitor. 

The problem here is you think this work is "beneath" you, which it is.

BUT
.. you can make $80K/year doing it!

RE

LD I gotta say this, the 'rich fucker' comment sets me off.

When I was 14 years old my father told me that the only money I was ever going to get I was going to have to get on my own.  He would not be giving me any, ever.  While not rich, he alway earned within the top 10% of Americans.  He was good to his word.  I have college degrees.  I paid for them.  For money I began working illegally when I was 14 at $1.00 an hour and I have never stopped except for unemployed times when I could not get a job. 

I stated that I considered $50 K a good wage 30 years ago but I did not see that wage for another 10+ years.  There was a time when I was young with a family and I was only earning $12K.  It has been a long time for me to see $100K and I look to you like one of your 'rich fuckers'.  I drive a beautiful German car that is made from quality.  Same kind Eddie has.  A model that is slightly out of reach for most Americans.

My profession is electronics which I chose deliberately and entered at the bottom at $6.25 an hour.  I trained myself, school alone does not build competency.  There have been times in my life when sleep has been a luxury but I can design electronic devices at the circuit level, many different kinds. 

I planned my life so that I would eventually be debt free so at this point in my life so I could be saving enough to look after Mrs. Dog after we can't work anymore.  Now I am doing exactly that and hoping the creek don't rise before I can build up savings.  While I may strongly resemble a 'rich fucker' my bank account says otherwise.  The savings and loan crash around 2001 combined with September 11th to fuck with my 'career' hard.  That was before the 2007 crash which fucked with my 'career' even harder.

This rich fucker may look like he has it made in the shade but I cleaned plenty of toilets to get where I am.  I have been a lot of things and the only work that has ever been beneath me has been work that sucked for moral reasons.  Work that exploits and takes advantage of other people.  All other work has dignity and I think that anyone who would look down on anyone else for the kind of work they do is shit.

Collapse to some people is 'depressing' but to me it is simple reality.  I know that even in collapse we have to try and find individual success.  Get a plan so that somebody younger than you someday can call you a rich fucker regardless of everything else that happens.  I don't like the driving choice because it will take you away from being able to work a plan.  Become skilled at something that society needs.  That would be hard to do in the back of a truck.  While you work your plan try and have steady work that takes you home at night.  A mcjob can do it if you live right and have a place to live.  When I was younger I wanted to much too fast and did not appreciate that determination and patience pays off.  Fortunately I had both despite my bitching and yammering.  Now I see people wanting too much too fast all the time, people who don't appreciate that paying your dues is part of being qualified for some jobs, jobs everyone thinks they should just be able to walk into as if they were special flowers.

If I had to drive a truck I'd be reading and developing writing skills good enough to write a novel on downtime.  I don't know what else you could do travelling in the back of a truck to improve your lot.  If you were musical you could practice singing the blues but eventually your brain would turn to mush.  Driving truck does not stimulate the entire mind.  In time that will take a toll.

Well I wouldn't necessarily say 100k a year makes you a "rich fucker."  I don't think any people making 100k a year pay to have their house cleaned.  Do you?  I realize RE paid to have his house cleaned, but he paid with mailbox money and he's lazy...not the typical person whom pays for a maid service. 

I put a lot of time in eatin' crow.  I'm not asking for too much either.  Why do you imply that I am?  I just want a roof of my own and a bit of land to grow some bamboo and perennials on.  Why is that asking too much too fast?  I'm willing to work for it, to put my time in for it.  What exactly are you implying?  Just come out and say it if you've got it to say. 

You are taking things personally that you should not be taking personally. 

Offline luciddreams

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2017, 10:37:22 AM »
Thanks David.  Ultimately this is a way to get my family into a situation similar to yours.  I plan to buy land and a domicile with the proceeds...at some point...hopefully.  I plan to build a new permaculture/bamboo paradise.  On land that I own, and in a home that is ours.  It takes money.  I can get that money truckin', and so that's what I'm going to do.  There are other ways I could get that money...but none that I have seen that I will be able to stomach.  I'm betting that I can stomach truckin', so I'm going to find out...and soon.  If all goes well I'll be up in Wisconsin September 1st.
Here's something to consider: This self-driving truck has no room for a human driver — literally

I'm aware of that phenomenon, which is just what it is, and not too unlike energy that's too cheap to measure.  What happens the first time one of those driverless trucks wrecks?  Who will be liable?  The carrier, the company that manufactured the truck?  Who the fuck would insure a fleet of driverless trucks?  Seems to me just the insurance payment alone would make it cost more than paying a driver 45 cents per mile. 

Driverless cars are delusional.  They may happen, but they won't become normal.  First time one of them wrecks and kills some people it will be game over.  A driverless big rig is even less of a possibility.  Not to mention, if they did become a reality, it would put millions out of work.  They can't put us all out of work with robots and third world slaves and still have any kind of economy. 

But even if they were to happen it would be at least 10 years away.  That should be plenty of time for me to get my piece.  Or the wheels fall off and we're all fucked...so then what's the difference? 

Offline agelbert

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2017, 11:59:05 AM »
Nothing wrong with trucking.  It is as you say one of the last well paid trades that does not involve years of college. The homestead game is expensive.  We were lucky we built a nest egg before kids and the move so the land and house shell went up from savings. It's a small town so we just moved in at that stage and nobody cared.
I wish you luck. 
David B.

Thanks David.  Ultimately this is a way to get my family into a situation similar to yours.  I plan to buy land and a domicile with the proceeds...at some point...hopefully.  I plan to build a new permaculture/bamboo paradise.  On land that I own, and in a home that is ours.  It takes money.  I can get that money truckin', and so that's what I'm going to do.  There are other ways I could get that money...but none that I have seen that I will be able to stomach.  I'm betting that I can stomach truckin', so I'm going to find out...and soon.  If all goes well I'll be up in Wisconsin September 1st.

Good luck, Lucid. I'm sure you will have a few years before the future of Trucking "persuades" you to look elseware for a job. RE knows of what he speaks. So do I. 

Quote
According a recent report from management magazine strategy + business, fleets could save billions across the industry by switching from human controlled trucks to those that drive themselves. Overdrive sister site CCJ‘s Senior Editor Kevin Jones has a full write-up on the latest on autonomous trucks on CCJ‘s site, where he says the economic upside for fleets would immediately include productivity, as hours of service rules would no longer be a worry.



Nor would driver wages, says one analyst in Jones’ story.


The numbers now are roughly this: It costs $200,000 to outfit a truck and trailer to run autonomously, which would yield savings of about $100,000 every year, which, obviously, would put any fleets that made the switch in the black on the change in just two years.

The analyst also says fleets that do adopt autonomous trucks early will set establish “industry-leading positions.”

Do drivers need to be watching their backs? Click here to see Jones’ full post on autonomous trucks

http://www.overdriveonline.com/robotic-trucks-set-to-push-drivers-out-of-a-job/


   
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 12:04:19 PM by agelbert »
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Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2017, 01:08:57 PM »
It's not the driverless truck that is the problem it's the entire system built up around trucks that would have to be rebuilt. Just imagine the simple act of backing up in the built up areas involving convincing traffic to stop for you and give you a window for doing it.  Imagine the tens of thousands of docks that predate 18 wheelers let alone autonomous trucks.  Do you honestly think the money is there at that end to replace anything.  How about unloading.  Have you even seen some of the sketchy places freight gets dropped off at? A robot would go into convulsions.   It will happen but it will take at least 10-20 years for the wet ware at the delivery points to be ready to accept autonomous freight...
Just an opinion of course I did run a warehouse in a previous life though...
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline agelbert

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2017, 01:33:53 PM »
It's not the driverless truck that is the problem it's the entire system built up around trucks that would have to be rebuilt. Just imagine the simple act of backing up in the built up areas involving convincing traffic to stop for you and give you a window for doing it.  Imagine the tens of thousands of docks that predate 18 wheelers let alone autonomous trucks.  Do you honestly think the money is there at that end to replace anything.  How about unloading.  Have you even seen some of the sketchy places freight gets dropped off at? A robot would go into convulsions.   It will happen but it will take at least 10-20 years for the wet ware at the delivery points to be ready to accept autonomous freight...
Just an opinion of course I did run a warehouse in a previous life though...


The short answer is, of course there is money to do that.

Every objection you present to robotic driving, including enroute challenges, delivery constraints, docking in non-automation friendly arreas, etc. is being addressed successfully. Automated driving is going to be far more accident free than human controlled driving.

I was an air traffic controller for many years. I used to say, and I was right in 1972 when I first said it, that I was in the most short lived profession in the history of the human race. WHY? Simply because computers are far better, quicker and more reliable at spacial visualization, vector probabilities, etc. (which is what is involved in keeping airplanes from hitting each other)  than humans. There still are human ATC specialists, but the computer is gradually taking over the ATC to aircraft (bypassing the pilots too!) commands.

Now if you think that moving things from here to there is not going to be nearly 100% automated (with human supervisors overseeing an entire trucking fleet, not just one vehicle at a time), you are not fully cognizant of the present abilities of computer software with the appropriate sensor IO. I know what I am talking about. I was an automation specialist after being an air traffic contoller. The technology is OLD to move trucks without humans. What is NEW is the lower price for the sensor package needed to do that reliably and safely.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 02:13:14 PM by agelbert »
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: You want to walkabout it?
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2017, 02:24:38 PM »
It's not the driverless truck that is the problem it's the entire system built up around trucks that would have to be rebuilt. Just imagine the simple act of backing up in the built up areas involving convincing traffic to stop for you and give you a window for doing it.  Imagine the tens of thousands of docks that predate 18 wheelers let alone autonomous trucks.  Do you honestly think the money is there at that end to replace anything.  How about unloading.  Have you even seen some of the sketchy places freight gets dropped off at? A robot would go into convulsions.   It will happen but it will take at least 10-20 years for the wet ware at the delivery points to be ready to accept autonomous freight...
Just an opinion of course I did run a warehouse in a previous life though...


The short answer is, of course there is money to do that.

Every objection you present to robotic driving, including enroute challenges, delivery constraints, docking in non-automation friendly arreas, etc. is being addressed successfully. Automated driving is going to be far more accident free than human controlled driving.

I was an air traffic controller for many years. I used to say, and I was right in 1972 when I first said it, that I was in the most short lived profession in the history of the human race. WHY? Simply because computers are far better, quicker and more reliable at spacial visualization, vector probabilities, etc. (which is what is involved in keeping airplanes from hitting each other)  than humans. There still are human ATC specialists, but the computer is gradually taking over the ATC to aircraft (bypassing the pilots too!) commands.

Now if you think that moving things from here to there is not going to be nearly 100% automated (with human supervisors overseeing an entire trucking fleet, not just one vehicle at a time), you are not fully cognizant of the present abilities of computer software with the appropriate sensor IO. I know what I am talking about. I was an automation specialist after being an air traffic contoller. The technology is OLD to move trucks without humans. What is NEW is the lower price for the sensor package needed to do that reliably and safely.

Look, there ain't shit that any of us can do about the robots.  They are going to put us out of work.  Work can be done by robots, robots are getting cheaper by the day.  At this point it's still a viable career option.  Hopefully I can make the money I need in the time I have before robots put me out of work. 

On another note, we just signed a contract for our land...37k.  I'm probably going to pay to have the water, power, and septic dove tailed onto my mom's build with that cash.  Then we'll finance our own double wide and be set, in a doublewide down by the river...a far bit better then a van down by the river. 

11 acres for the bamboo and food forest, a double wide down by the river, and maybe a decade of 50k a year before the robots put me out of work.  Bamboo is virile, it doesn't require tender loving care.  My groves will grow just fine while I'm OTR trucking and so will my food producing trees and shrubbery.  The income will enable me to buy infrastructure for animals and whatnot.  I'll save as much of it as I can.

In the end, the robots will put us all out of work and we'll run out of oil which will put the robots out of work.  It will be game over, and then we can all learn how to be uncomfortable while we transition into 21st century third world dystopian ghettos. 

Say what you want about my decision to go truckin'...at least I'm not delusional about it. 

 

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