AuthorTopic: Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse  (Read 1545 times)

Online RE

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Re: Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2018, 06:58:08 PM »
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RE: I also simply did not need this car, even as a spare.  I bought SaVANnah last summer, so now I had THREE carz in the parking lot!  That is a pain in the ass of it's own in a climate like this, because if you don't drive them regularly the batt goes dead on them.  Tires go flat and you have to refill them all the time.  I barely drive at all even for 1 car, most I go out these days is 3 times a week for short drives.

Exactly. You bought 3 cars over time, when you barely need one, then didn't look after them because that's a pain in the ass, then you threw the rusty wreck away, and felt proud of your accomplishment!  We'll not mention about how much saVANnah cost, or how much second-hand parts from Japan cost.

It's just a "miracle" how long cars last in Cuba.


I bought more than 3 carz over time.  How many did you buy?

Your holier-than-thou bullshit gets tiresome PY.  How much petroleum went into constructing your fiberglass boat that delivered you from the UK to the tropical rainforest?  How did you dispose of that one?  Sold it off I imagine to someone, but by now probably a wreck in some junkyard too.

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Offline Palloy2

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Re: Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2018, 07:24:00 PM »
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RE: Your holier-than-thou bullshit ...

To be expected - finger-pointing, rather than reconsidering your position.

I said it's between YOU and YOUR conscience.
I didn't say it was between YOU and ME.
As the only non-Amerikan here, Amerikan over-consumption really sticks out, being thrifty must be something they don't teach you anywhere.  You will learn all about it the hard way.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Online RE

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Re: Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2018, 09:27:20 PM »
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RE: Your holier-than-thou bullshit ...

To be expected - finger-pointing, rather than reconsidering your position.

I said it's between YOU and YOUR conscience.
I didn't say it was between YOU and ME.
As the only non-Amerikan here, Amerikan over-consumption really sticks out, being thrifty must be something they don't teach you anywhere.  You will learn all about it the hard way.

I see nowhere in your post where you said this was between me and my conscience.

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Exactly. You bought 3 cars over time, when you barely need one, then didn't look after them because that's a pain in the ass, then you threw the rusty wreck away, and felt proud of your accomplishment!  We'll not mention about how much saVANnah cost, or how much second-hand parts from Japan cost.

Basically you accuse me of being overly wasteful, with the subtext that you are a paragon of virtue.

Brits are as wasteful and consumptive as Amerikans are.  You support the freaking Royals after all.  You also started the whole mess of industrialization, burning down all the forests in England to smelt iron and build sailing ships to go and wipe out the First Nations people of Turtle Island.  Then you invented the Steam Engine to help dig up coal since you consumed all the wood.  Then you enslaved India and tried to enslave China also until the Boxer Rebellion.  Then you came begging to Amerikans to help you fight off Hitler and have been sucking Amerikan cock ever since.

You will learn the hard way just as we will.  When those pension checks stop rolling in, you won't last any longer than I will.  As for me, my conscience is clear, and you started this blame game, not me.

RE
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 09:33:29 PM by RE »
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Offline Palloy2

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Re: Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2018, 10:33:32 PM »
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Brits are as wasteful and consumptive as Amerikans are.  You support the freaking Royals after all.  You ...

I'm not a Brit, I don't support the Royals, and I didn't support any of the crimes in the history of the Brits.  The only bit that you wrote that is true is "You accuse me of being overly wasteful" - are you still trying to deny it?  I don't expect you to do the mechanics job yourself, but trying to find someone who is prepared to do the work would be a lot more sensible than just sending it to the wreckers - that's extravagantly wasteful.  Can't you see that?

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I see nowhere in your post where you said this was between me and my conscience.

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PY: I'm not blaming, just trying to point out that throwing away a car that needs minor repairs, will be hard to justify to your grandchildren.  Remember $10K/yr is $9,270/yr more than billions of children have now and your grandchildren will have.  It's your conscience.

You can't defend yourself against being called wasteful by saying "everyone else is too" or by finger-pointing at me. You were the one who said it wasn't worth using anti-virus, because if you get a virus, you would just buy a new one.

There's no prize for the kid with most toys when shit hits.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Online RE

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Re: Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2018, 11:18:35 PM »
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Brits are as wasteful and consumptive as Amerikans are.  You support the freaking Royals after all.  You ...

I'm not a Brit, I don't support the Royals

You're not a Brit?  Where do your pension checks come from?  Where were you born?

You don't support the Royals?  I don't support the Koch Brothers or Warren Buffett either, but you lay on me the responsibility for what they have done.

You like to paste blame across ALL Amerikans, but all Amerikans are NOT equal in blame.  I buy used cars and keep them running a VERY long time.  I bought SaVANnah because it was the type of vehicle I felt would serve me well in a SHTF scenario, even just a personal one rather than society wide.  A vehicle I could live in if I absolutely had to.  The Mazda was close to 30 years old.  Few carz last that long.  Both SaVANnah and my Ford SUV are close to 20 years old.  Eventually, these artifacts of industrial society go to the Land of Away, they all do.  How old is your Toyota?

RE
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 11:25:36 PM by RE »
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Offline David B.

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Re: Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2018, 05:33:21 AM »
I won't step into your long standing discussion but I will say that when the suspension system and front end components start rusting out on a unibody constructed vehicle it is time to go to the land of away. The engine mounts would be soon to fail, along with every component bolted to the undercarriage. Salt is vicious on modern cars and poorly understood unless you live in the salt belt. My 2003 Liberty ,half the age of the mazda, has rocker panels so eaten by rust I don't feel safe putting my kids in it. All the structure is in that folded thin metal, there is no long metal frame components to give it rigidity. An accident that should result in strategic crumpling instead results in unpredictable failure. I've never bought a new vehicle and I like to maintain mine until everyone I know thinks I've gone mad. I live in a very wasteful society, i waste less then the average member but I know my hands are dirty.
The Other Non American (well technically in America but not as it was used in the sentence)
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Online RE

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Re: Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2018, 07:38:23 AM »
I won't step into your long standing discussion but I will say that when the suspension system and front end components start rusting out on a unibody constructed vehicle it is time to go to the land of away. The engine mounts would be soon to fail, along with every component bolted to the undercarriage. Salt is vicious on modern cars and poorly understood unless you live in the salt belt. My 2003 Liberty ,half the age of the mazda, has rocker panels so eaten by rust I don't feel safe putting my kids in it. All the structure is in that folded thin metal, there is no long metal frame components to give it rigidity. An accident that should result in strategic crumpling instead results in unpredictable failure. I've never bought a new vehicle and I like to maintain mine until everyone I know thinks I've gone mad. I live in a very wasteful society, i waste less then the average member but I know my hands are dirty.
The Other Non American (well technically in America but not as it was used in the sentence)

It definitely was time for the Mazda to go to the Land of Away.  Getting 10 more years out of it when it was already close to 20 years old is remarkable in itself.  And for only $900!  :icon_sunny:  Like people, all carz die eventually, the Mazda took longer than most.  It was like a centenarian human in Car-Years.  Trying to fix it up would be like putting the 7th new Heart in David Rockefeller when he was 102.   Something else was bound to fail after that.   When you consider that Automotive Manufacturers expect you to replace a car every 5 years (the length of the typical car loan), this car fucked them 5 more times over.  If you go to a used car lot, you about never see a car over 10 years old there.  The only way you even buy a 20 year old car is from an individual seller.

I'm quite sure that all of PYs cars of 1980s vintage have gone to the Land of Away by now.  He just got rid of them before they died, selling them to someone else while they still had some life left in them.  His issue here is that he has latched onto this as an example of Amerikan Wastefulness, and specifically MY supposed wastefulness.  What really would be wasteful is if I bought a new car every 5 years like the top 10% do.  Actually 1 of my uncles religiously bought a new Cadillac every 3 years starting from when he retired from the Navy in the 1960s until he died in the late 1980s.

The truth here is that I had already replaced the Mazda with SaVANnah as my spare car.  I like keeping a spare car in case my main car has to go in the shop so I don't have to rent.  K-Dog had this issue when his Mercedes crapped out on the Total Eclipse of the SUN☼ adventure.  With our cold weather up here, I had many mornings when one car wouldn't start but the other would.  The habit of keeping two carz saved me from being late for or missing work many times.  I just hadn't got rid of the Mazda before this because I was attached to her emotionally.  I am glad I didn't sell her off now, because had that strut failed on the buyer while highway driving it, it easily could have been a deadly accident.

So now the Mazda is in the possession of the tow company and they will get what they can for the tires, the battery and alternator and anything in the engine compartment worth something.  What is really sad though is that despite the fact they are still good, the Engine and the Tranny probably are NOT worth anything, because they won't fit in anything but this vintage of Mazdas.  The engine however could still run a big alternator that could power a small community with electricity.  Perhaps in the future someone will extract this engine from the hulk in the junk yard and make use of it running on charcoal gas, although it is doubtful.

PY will continue to complain about Amerikan Wastefulness and maintain his Holier-than-thou Living-in-the-Rainforest attitude regardless what I do, it doesn't usually bother me despite how hypocritical it is.  He also spent a lifetime in the industrial economy, bought plenty of carz and burned lots of gas too.  He also lives on a Pension Check from his years as a cog in the industrial machine.  He also relies on the Industrial Medical Industry to fix him up when something in his body craps out.  If his conscience feels guilty about that, it is his problem, not my problem.  That is just the way it WAS growing up in this civilization in the last century.  I feel no sense of guilt over this whatsoever.

RE
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Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2018, 08:07:24 AM »
I won't step into your long standing discussion but I will say that when the suspension system and front end components start rusting out on a unibody constructed vehicle it is time to go to the land of away. The engine mounts would be soon to fail, along with every component bolted to the undercarriage. Salt is vicious on modern cars and poorly understood unless you live in the salt belt. My 2003 Liberty ,half the age of the mazda, has rocker panels so eaten by rust I don't feel safe putting my kids in it. All the structure is in that folded thin metal, there is no long metal frame components to give it rigidity. An accident that should result in strategic crumpling instead results in unpredictable failure. I've never bought a new vehicle and I like to maintain mine until everyone I know thinks I've gone mad. I live in a very wasteful society, i waste less then the average member but I know my hands are dirty.
The Other Non American (well technically in America but not as it was used in the sentence)

It definitely was time for the Mazda to go to the Land of Away.  Getting 10 more years out of it when it was already close to 20 years old is remarkable in itself.  And for only $900!  :icon_sunny:  Like people, all carz die eventually, the Mazda took longer than most.  It was like a centenarian human in Car-Years.  Trying to fix it up would be like putting the 7th new Heart in David Rockefeller when he was 102.   Something else was bound to fail after that.   When you consider that Automotive Manufacturers expect you to replace a car every 5 years (the length of the typical car loan), this car fucked them 5 more times over.  If you go to a used car lot, you about never see a car over 10 years old there.  The only way you even buy a 20 year old car is from an individual seller.

I'm quite sure that all of PYs cars of 1980s vintage have gone to the Land of Away by now.  He just got rid of them before they died, selling them to someone else while they still had some life left in them.  His issue here is that he has latched onto this as an example of Amerikan Wastefulness, and specifically MY supposed wastefulness.  What really would be wasteful is if I bought a new car every 5 years like the top 10% do.  Actually 1 of my uncles religiously bought a new Cadillac every 3 years starting from when he retired from the Navy in the 1960s until he died in the late 1980s.

The truth here is that I had already replaced the Mazda with SaVANnah as my spare car.  I like keeping a spare car in case my main car has to go in the shop so I don't have to rent.  K-Dog had this issue when his Mercedes crapped out on the Total Eclipse of the SUN☼ adventure.  With our cold weather up here, I had many mornings when one car wouldn't start but the other would.  The habit of keeping two carz saved me from being late for or missing work many times.  I just hadn't got rid of the Mazda before this because I was attached to her emotionally.  I am glad I didn't sell her off now, because had that strut failed on the buyer while highway driving it, it easily could have been a deadly accident.

So now the Mazda is in the possession of the tow company and they will get what they can for the tires, the battery and alternator and anything in the engine compartment worth something.  What is really sad though is that despite the fact they are still good, the Engine and the Tranny probably are NOT worth anything, because they won't fit in anything but this vintage of Mazdas.  The engine however could still run a big alternator that could power a small community with electricity.  Perhaps in the future someone will extract this engine from the hulk in the junk yard and make use of it running on charcoal gas, although it is doubtful.

PY will continue to complain about Amerikan Wastefulness and maintain his Holier-than-thou Living-in-the-Rainforest attitude regardless what I do, it doesn't usually bother me despite how hypocritical it is.  He also spent a lifetime in the industrial economy, bought plenty of carz and burned lots of gas too.  He also lives on a Pension Check from his years as a cog in the industrial machine.  He also relies on the Industrial Medical Industry to fix him up when something in his body craps out.  If his conscience feels guilty about that, it is his problem, not my problem.  That is just the way it WAS growing up in this civilization in the last century.  I feel no sense of guilt over this whatsoever.

RE

My take is that inflation has made it an absurdity to repair certain items for anything but minor fixes to keep them running.

What these guys want for just a simple brake job is beyond ridiculous. I remember when you got all brake pads replaced for 29.95 at a Sears Automotive, now your talking 500 to a grand. You drive out with the same shitbox you had when you drove in to boot after such expense, and it does nothing to the value of the car.
All good hard earned money that could be put to a newer vehicle with some life left in it and more easily acquired parts.

Computers are the same thing. These poor bastards upgrading a five or ten year old PC are crazy.

Everything in the new one is multiples better and advanced and the cost is remarkably low for the advanced technology Chip, hard drive, bluetooth, all the bells and whistles. New state of the art computers are the best bargains I can think of for the consumer these days. Yet folks repair the old ones and still have a piece of antiquated junk.   Just my two centavos.



Offline Palloy2

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Re: Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2018, 03:16:12 PM »
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RE: I'm quite sure that all of PYs cars of 1980s vintage have gone to the Land of Away by now.  He just got rid of them before they died, selling them to someone else while they still had some life left in them.

I aim to be the last owner of all my cars, driving them until they are almost dead, then trading them. The most I have ever paid for a replacement car is $7,000. For sure all 1980s vintage cars are dead now, but why choose that date? - the Mazda wasn't one of those.  In reality it is more convenient to be able to drive them to their last trade-in.

Of course posh car yards don't have really old cars on the lot, but that is a reason not to buy from posh car yards.  You know very well there are cheap car yards. My 1998 Corolla came from a yard called "Cheapies", and I got a real $200 trade-in for the 1994 Corolla.

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The habit of keeping two carz saved me from being late for or missing work many times.

... and there is nothing worse than being late for work.

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I am glad I didn't sell her off now, because had that strut failed on the buyer while highway driving it, it easily could have been a deadly accident.

The same is true for ANY car, but that doesn't stop people selling them.

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The engine however could still run a big alternator that could power a small community with electricity.

What a shame you didn't do that then.

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PY will continue to complain about Amerikan Wastefulness and maintain his Holier-than-thou Living-in-the-Rainforest attitude regardless what I do, it doesn't usually bother me despite how hypocritical it is.

I haven't said a word about being holier than thou.  You have just made that up to save yourself from having to admit you are wasteful - another example of finger-pointing.

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I feel no sense of guilt over this whatsoever.

I don't believe that is true or you wouldn't have posted such a load of pathetic justifications of your wastefulness.

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GO: Computers are the same thing. These poor bastards upgrading a five or ten year old PC are crazy.

Not the same thing at all.  There haven't been comparative upgrades in car performance for a long time, while computers have made huge gains.
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Offline David B.

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Re: Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2018, 03:37:43 PM »
Then why sell off a 1994 corolla for a 99? Is it not a comparable example?
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Online RE

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Re: Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2018, 03:48:48 PM »
The most I have ever paid for a replacement car is $7,000. For sure all 1980s vintage cars are dead now, but why choose that date? - the Mazda wasn't one of those.  In reality it is more convenient to be able to drive them to their last trade-in.

The Mazda was a 1989.  None of the vehicles I bought for the last 30 years cost more than $5000, with no trade-ins.  I bought one vehicle new when I was married.  My one car mistake.  My current carz are 1999 and 2002 Vintage.  Finally, there may be El Cheapo car lots in your neighborhood, there are none around here.  If you are looking for El Cheapo carz here, you do it on Craig's List and buy straight from the last owner.

RE
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 04:02:26 PM by RE »
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