AuthorTopic: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread  (Read 12964 times)

Offline Stucky1

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2013, 03:34:16 PM »
Deceived?  No.  Misled?  Yes.

Still no excuse.  Hey ... I was misled about that Grenada I bought.  The Ford commercials said it was just like a Mercedes.  But, it was a big piece of shit.  Maybe I shouldn't have repaid that loan.  Hey, I was misled in buying the house.  They said it would appreciate forever. Maybe I shouldn't pay that either.  And so it goes ... being misled is no excuse.

Also, are the current crop of kids THAT stupid?  Even though I went to college back in the 70's even I knew there were NO GUARANTEES ... even though I took computer science as my major, instead of Art Appreciation.

Offline g

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2013, 03:42:25 PM »
Quote
Sure it IS the kid's responsibility.  But someone needs to explain that reality to him before dotted line time.  Maybe he should be required to write out that explanation long hand and sign it first??

I remember how smart I was at 18. You could have sold me the Brooklyn Bridge for 100 bucks.

They used to sell beautiful house lots on the back of cereal boxes to those smart enough to think ahead to retirement back then, a couple of grand got you a beautiful lot in the Florida Everglades with billions of mosquitoes and and a few hundreds alligators for next door neighbors. No Money Down , free and clear title after thirty years of small monthly payments.


Sure, the kids were adults at 18 and should have read the fine print, or at least their parents, who were mostly slaving for the loving pigmen.  Nothing more easy to understand than the fine print of the honest loving  banksters. Does anyone remember them doing God's work and handing out free credit cards, you could get a half dozen of them if you wished. The teachers and goobermint were right there warning everyone not to take the bait, weren't they???

Offline Stucky1

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2013, 03:48:48 PM »
“Actually, an Economic Gun IS pointed at your head to take out these loans.  Everybody including your parents tells you that if you don't get a Sheepskin …”  -----RE

Wrong. Even if you are speaking figuratively.  Those racking up $100k debts are certainly going to the “better” schools … not some state school or Community College.  Again, are these “kids” so fuckin’ stoopid they can’t read the Newz?  Who the hell ever actually told them a job in their major was “guaranteed”?  Nobody. Gimme a break, here.

“The bottom line here is if the society purports to be Equal Opportunity, then Education should be free for everyone …” -----RE

Bullshit.  Why stop at Education?  Let’s extend that to Medical Care, Housing, iPhones, Food, Clothing, …. Yeah, let’s make EVERYTHING free.  Oh … wait ….

"Take some responsibility?  Bullshit." ----- RE

I call double-bullshit on your bullshit, and raise you ten bullshits. Seriously, do you support personal responsibility for anything??
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 03:51:07 PM by Stucky1 »

Offline RE

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2013, 04:01:20 PM »
Deceived?  No.  Misled?  Yes.

Still no excuse.  Hey ... I was misled about that Grenada I bought.  The Ford commercials said it was just like a Mercedes.  But, it was a big piece of shit.  Maybe I shouldn't have repaid that loan.  Hey, I was misled in buying the house.  They said it would appreciate forever. Maybe I shouldn't pay that either.  And so it goes ... being misled is no excuse.

Umm, no.  If you are actively misled then under Tort Law the Contract is abrogated.  I'm not a Tort Lawyer, but even I know that from watching LA Law.  LOL.  So legally speaking, you shouldn't have paid off the Grenada or the McMansion.

Quote
Also, are the current crop of kids THAT stupid?  Even though I went to college back in the 70's even I knew there were NO GUARANTEES ... even though I took computer science as my major, instead of Art Appreciation.

Question 1 Answer: Yes.  Public Schools don't teach anything, and the Media teaches that for Everything You Want but Cannot Afford, there is VISA.

Tall, Natively Smart Young Kraut Immigrants (OK, they are not Krauts now, they are Chindians and usually Small not Tall) take IT classes now too.  Guess what?  NO JOBS for IT Grads OR Art History grads either! LOL.

Stuck, you did not address a single point I made in my post, or any that Monsta made either.  You are regurgitating TBP philosophy here and not responding to the arguments.  Negative Points for this.

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Offline monsta666

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2013, 04:16:21 PM »
“The bottom line here is if the society purports to be Equal Opportunity, then Education should be free for everyone …” -----RE

Bullshit.  Why stop at Education?  Let’s extend that to Medical Care, Housing, iPhones, Food, Clothing, …. Yeah, let’s make EVERYTHING free.  Oh … wait ….

You don't have to make everything free you are using a straw man argument here. Education is one of the best means of achieving social mobility so if a society strives to be a place where anyone can make it (i.e. the American Dream) then the simplest way to achieve this is to let people start at a relative equal footing when it comes to education. That way everyone is given a decent start at the beginning to achieve what they want through hard work and talent. By adding large financial barriers to this educational process all you are doing is simply reinforcing the existing social classes and reducing social mobility. If you are happy with this arrangement then fair enough but then Americans who subscribe to this dynamic should claim the country is the land of the free where anyone can make it. A system that places such a high financial burden on education will simply enforce the existing social classes and lock the working class to the bottom. What is more any talented poor folks that do try and get to the top have to pay top rates that will only enrich the richer even further.

Housing, medical treatment and other consumer items do not help with social mobility so they do not need to be funded for this reason. Education does however. It is also in the interest of society that all its member are educated to a decent level that way they can make more informed decisions not just on their personal level but also in how the country should be run.  Finally the loans agreed upon involve two parties both of which need to be held accountable for their decisions. At the moment all you are doing is focusing on the irresponsible student. However it is also the banks responsibility to ensure its customers have a realistic chance in paying back those loans. If they don't perform due diligence and give out loans like a drunken sailor then they need to face the consequences of losing money or even going bankrupt. That is capitalism! Bad players need to pay for their poor decisions and should not depend on the government to bail them out. This goes against the principles of free market and capitalism which I am guessing you are a great fan of.

Offline RE

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2013, 04:23:06 PM »
My responses in Blue.

“Actually, an Economic Gun IS pointed at your head to take out these loans.  Everybody including your parents tells you that if you don't get a Sheepskin …”  -----RE

Wrong. Even if you are speaking figuratively.  Those racking up $100k debts are certainly going to the “better” schools … not some state school or Community College.  Again, are these “kids” so fuckin’ stoopid they can’t read the Newz?  Who the hell ever actually told them a job in their major was “guaranteed”?  Nobody. Gimme a break, here.

All Degrees are Not Equal.  An MBA from Harvard is worth more than an MBA from Kaplan Online University.  LOL.

If you got the smarts to get into one of the Elite Institutions, the idea here is on Graduation you will get a job with a big enough paycheck to cover the outrageous bill.  Issue is now, even Elite institution degrees don't always get you the 6 figure paycheck you need to pay it all off.

Even if such a job is not "Guaranteed", why is it that the student bears all the risk involved in the Loan?  The Bankster makes the loan, he is betting the student will get the high paying job.  Student doesn't get such a job, he should lose his bet.  But NOOOOOO, Da Goobermint guarantees the loan and takes all the risk off the Bankster for making what amounts to a subprime bad loan.  Student on the other hand can't even discharge the loan in Bankruptcy.  This is a completely skeweed contractual arrangement on all levels.


“The bottom line here is if the society purports to be Equal Opportunity, then Education should be free for everyone …” -----RE

Bullshit.  Why stop at Education?  Let’s extend that to Medical Care, Housing, iPhones, Food, Clothing, …. Yeah, let’s make EVERYTHING free.  Oh … wait ….

Indeed, in such a society all the basics should be available to all.  That would include Food, Education, Medical Care, Shelter, Transportation and Communication.

To cover all of this, I propose everyone over 18 should be issued a Bugout Machine, Cell Phone with High speed Internet connection, Laptop, SNAP Card and Universal Health Access Card. Education free over the Internet on your Laptop. I do not favor issuing out anything past the basics though, if you want a Big Screen TV or Hawaiian Vacations, you need to earn money for that.
:icon_mrgreen:

"Take some responsibility?  Bullshit." ----- RE

I call double-bullshit on your bullshit, and raise you ten bullshits. Seriously, do you support personal responsibility for anything??

I support Personal Resonsibility for anything you have Personal Control over.  You don't have personal control over the need to go to Med Skule to be a doctor, the society dictates that. Therefore, the society should pick up the cost of training Doctors.


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nobody

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2013, 04:45:57 PM »
Ahhh, Cohen. 
Thanks, RE.  I was listening to him when I was 15 and no one ever heard of him.  I'd find someone like a guy working in a record store and he'd of course talk to me because I was pretty ..and turn me on to Cohen or Pink Floyd or someone no one else in my small town was going to hear for years.  I only know now that those were my angels.
"Oh the sisters of mercy, they are not departed or gone.
They were waiting for me when I thought that I just can't go on.
They brought me their comfort and later they brought me this song.
Oh I hope you run into them -you who've been travelling so long."

Offline JoeP

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2013, 04:54:31 PM »
I don't know if my story below has much to add to this discussion or not.  I just thought it might be relevant.

I was in a four day company sponsored course a few weeks ago.  The instructor asked each individual to answer the question "What concerns you".  So we went person by person (16 "students") thru this process and the requirement to answer came upon Duane.  I have known Duane for 18 years.  Not close, but once, we did spend 5 hours together on a golf course in the same electric golf cart.

His answer to the question was "How do I afford college for my children."

Duane is a manager...by my estimate, he makes around $120,000 a year.  His wife also works in a "professional" field.  This guy is "straight as an arrow" so I think he's speaking out about the insane cost of higher education...it's not like he went to Vegas and fucked up the family finances.

I know Duane went to Duke University...I guess that is pretty expensive...if the plan is for the kid(s) to go there too I guess this could be a "concern".
 
just my straight shooting honest opinion

Offline RE

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2013, 05:00:30 PM »
Ahhh, Cohen. 
Thanks, RE.  I was listening to him when I was 15 and no one ever heard of him.

Love that tune by Leonard, and the associated clip from Pump Up the Volume also. Did you read that article on the blog?

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Offline Stucky1

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2013, 05:05:09 PM »
“Stuck, you did not address a single point I made in my post, or any that Monsta made either.  You are regurgitating TBP philosophy here ..” -----RE

Actually, I addressed three things you said.  See above post where you are quoted in red. I also addressed Monsta’s idea that students were “deceived”.

I am insulted that you would say I am “regurgitating TBP philosophy”.  I have NEVER done that even on TBP.  Maybe you missed the shitfests I’ve had with Quinn, Smokey, Colma, llpoh, SAH, and others.  I speak MY mind, only and always.

“So legally speaking, you shouldn't have paid off the Grenada or the McMansion.” -----RE

See? This is where we are VERY different. You had a Pigman dad, so maybe that explains it. I had the bluest of blue-collar working stiff kind of dad … the Greatest Generation kind, albeit from Europe.  And, to him a debt was an OBLIGATION that you ALWAYS fulfilled, come hell or high water.  I agree.  I guess I’m just not meant to live with the new realities of debt paying now in the 2000’s.  And, I don’t want to be.

“Even if such a job is not "Guaranteed", why is it that the student bears all the risk involved in the Loan?” -----RE

Because that’s the way bank loans work!!!!  Jeeeezus.  RE’s First National Bank;  “Come bank with us!  We take ALL the risk!  We gots lottsa money … and, we don’t care if you pay us back! Everyone qualifies! It’s your right!  If you ass-fuck us, we’ll just ass-fuck the government. Everyone wins! Competitive rates. Free Toaster!!”


“I support Personal Responsibility for anything you have Personal Control over.” -----RE

Grasshopper, you do not yet realize how little you can actually control anything. God forbid, but what happens if you become stricken with Cancer?  Did you control that?  No.  So, I guess the government (other people) should pay for that too?

Offline RE

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2013, 05:29:29 PM »

I am insulted that you would say I am “regurgitating TBP philosophy”.  I have NEVER done that even on TBP.  Maybe you missed the shitfests I’ve had with Quinn, Smokey, Colma, llpoh, SAH, and others.  I speak MY mind, only and always.

Not the first time I insulted you, won't be the last either.  :icon_mrgreen:

Indeed, you have had many a knock down drag out Napalm contest on TBP with the other regulars there, but on this topic you spout the Accepted Wisdom of "Personal Responsibility" that is an underlying feature of the Tea Bagger meme.  I'm poking holes in that because I think it is a crock of shit when the Power distribution in society is so vastly skewed.

Quote
See? This is where we are VERY different. You had a Pigman dad, so maybe that explains it. I had the bluest of blue-collar working stiff kind of dad … the Greatest Generation kind, albeit from Europe.  And, to him a debt was an OBLIGATION that you ALWAYS fulfilled, come hell or high water.  I agree.  I guess I’m just not meant to live with the new realities of debt paying now in the 2000’s.  And, I don’t want to be.

All due respect to your Greatest Generation Blue Collar Dad and my Greatest Generation Pigman Dad, but Obligations to Slave Masters just are not fairly contracted obligations.  Period.  You don't like the new old reality much?  Neither do I, which of course is why I advocate giving Banksters and those in charge of running this Plantation a First Class Ticket to the Great Beyond.

Quote
Because that’s the way bank loans work!!!!  Jeeeezus.  RE’s First National Bank;  “Come bank with us!  We take ALL the risk!  We gots lottsa money … and, we don’t care if you pay us back! Everyone qualifies! It’s your right!  If you ass-fuck us, we’ll just ass-fuck the government. Everyone wins! Competitive rates. Free Toaster!!”

Actually, I don't think we should have Banks at all, or Money, as you well know.

If you ARE going to run Banks and Loans though, the Banksters who loan out money (which BTW they don't HAVE to begin with they create it out of thin air as soon as you sign on the dotted line) should be going BK right along with the folks they loaned the money out to, but they are not.  So as long as Da Goobermint will hand out Free Money to Banksters, I think it is only fair it hands out Free Money to J6P Son to go to College.  :icon_mrgreen:

Quote
Grasshopper, you do not yet realize how little you can actually control anything. God forbid, but what happens if you become stricken with Cancer?  Did you control that?  No.  So, I guess the government (other people) should pay for that too?

When I get stricken with Cancer, I'll take the Last Kayak Trip out to Sea.

This is a straw man, because the structure of society is not the same thing as getting hit with Cancer.  It is entirely predictable, entirely structural and operates the same way all the time to keep the rich rich and the poor poor.  It doesn't HAVE to be that way,nor will it be in perpetuity either.  It is just unfortunate that in order to rectify the situation, a whole lotta innocent people will go to the Great Beyond along with the Guilty.  As Uncle Joe Stalin said, "You can't Make an Omellette without Breaking a Few Eggs".

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Offline Stucky1

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2013, 05:32:24 PM »
“ …. adding large financial barriers to this educational process …”   -----monsta

Nope.  Not happy about the high costs at all.  The gub’mint created the problem long ago, sustains the problem now, and will continue to feed the beast far into the future. I don’t what the solution is. Do you? Seems nearly hopeless.

“ … medical treatment and other consumer items do not help with social mobility” -----monsta

Really? Good health does not help with social mobility?   Wonder just how socially mobile people with brain tumors are?  Housing … fuckit … working out of a cardboard box is just fine ... very easy to transport a box, highly mobile.


“However it is also the banks responsibility to ensure its customers have a realistic chance in paying back those loans.”  -----monsta666

Agree 100%.  Million dollar question – HOW does the bank do that regarding student loans?  It’s almost impossible, isn’t it?  Is the bank going to follow the student around to make sure he/she studies hard, instead of partying?  Is the bank going to make sure the student chooses a major with a good job market?  There is virtually no guarantee  any student can/will pay back any loan. That’s why student loans are non-dischargeable. In reality, the banks should get out of the Student Loan biz altogether. But that wouldn’t be very popular either.

nobody

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2013, 05:54:25 PM »
RE  "Love that tune by Leonard, and the associated clip from Pump Up the Volume also. Did you read that article on the blog?"

No, that article was among the 600,000 things I missed. 

"I am glad here as I near the end of my years walking the Earth to do once again what I did in my youth so many years ago now in a short career as a Pirate Radio Disk Jockey and Talk Show Host."

Me too.

Offline Stucky1

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2013, 05:57:44 PM »

“ …. but Obligations to Slave Masters just are not fairly contracted obligations” ----RE

Bull-fucking-shit.  Your silliness is forcing me to defend Banksters, a horrid state of affairs. I hate to break it to you, but you are not the first to realize that lenders are Slave Masters;

“The rich rules over the poor,  And the borrower becomes the lender’s slave.”  
----- Proverbs 22:7

“But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?”----- James 2:6

“A poor man pleads for mercy, but a rich man answers harshly.” 
----- Proverbs 18:23

Stucky’s Incredible Advice To Avoid Being A Debt Slave:  Don’t deal with the fucking banker in the first place!!

Offline RE

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Re: The Official Student Loan Debt Slavery Thread
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2013, 06:07:10 PM »

I know Duane went to Duke University...I guess that is pretty expensive...if the plan is for the kid(s) to go there too I guess this could be a "concern".

Duke University Costs:

TUITION AND EXPENSES

Cost of Attendance

$56,056


Tuition and Fees

$43,623

Room and Board

$12,433

Books and Supplies

Not reported

Other Expenses

Not reported

Payment Plans

Credit card, installment plan, prepayment discount, external finance company


$56K!  NOT Including Books!  You CAN pay it on your VISA card though!  LOL.  Duke isn't even Top Tier Ivy League, its a 2nd tier  Southern Cracker Ivy League Wannabee in North Carolina!  LOL.

What if Duane has 2 kids, who when they were 8 & 10 were pretty cheap except for the high cost of the Hockey Fees and Dance Recitals, but now are 18 & 20?  $112K a YEAR here for Duane!

Banksters doing God's Work are out there to help Duane's kids though.  Here Sonny Boy, just Sign on the Dotted Line, you too can get a High Paying Job as a Pigman...

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