AuthorTopic: The Korea thread  (Read 3447 times)

Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #90 on: June 13, 2018, 05:53:56 AM »
At least Trump understands that to get something, you have to give something. An understanding that is generally lacking by the neoliberal permanent war party in DC.

I've got a dollar I'd bet that neither side honors the spirit or the letter of this very vague agreement. As someone pointed out, all this has been agreed to before, in previous administrations.

But Trump gets his Nobel and maybe an Oscar for "best fantasy short" for his NK Summit Movie Trailer. A Yuge propaganda victory for Trump and Kim.

Did anyone read the New Yorker article comparing Trump to Kaiser Wilhelm? There have been several journalists who have found the parallels interesting, but this one gets my vote for "best title".

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/what-happens-when-a-bad-tempered-distractible-doofus-runs-an-empire

Yes, President Trump is a doofus, and Robert De Nero is no doubt a genius. ::)

No, didn't read the article, I try to be selective in my reading. New Yorker is however my favorite source for short stories and cartoons. 

                                   

                                            "Okay, now walk forward casually"

                                          ;D :D :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :roll2:

Online Surly1

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #91 on: June 13, 2018, 05:57:16 AM »

Did anyone read the New Yorker article comparing Trump to Kaiser Wilhelm? There have been several journalists who have found the parallels interesting, but this one gets my vote for "best title".

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/what-happens-when-a-bad-tempered-distractible-doofus-runs-an-empire

Sure did! Excellent, and chilling.

News digest brought to you by the Doomstead Diner.

//

What Happens When a Bad-Tempered, Distractible Doofus Runs an Empire?

 

[url=http://www.newyorker.com]www.newyorker.com[/url] - One of the few things that Kaiser Wilhelm II, who ruled Germany from 1888 to 1918, had a talent for was causing outrage. A particular specialty was insulting other monarchs. He called the diminutive …

"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Eddie

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #92 on: June 13, 2018, 06:03:02 AM »
@Surly

Sorry. I missed that you had posted it. I do usually check your feed.

@GO

Robert DiNiro is more like Trump than he is different. Maybe a nicer guy, fwiw. They both talk shit all the time.
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Online Surly1

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #93 on: June 13, 2018, 06:51:26 AM »
@Surly

Sorry. I missed that you had posted it. I do usually check your feed.

@GO

Robert DiNiro is more like Trump than he is different. Maybe a nicer guy, fwiw. They both talk shit all the time.

No problemo. I remembered having read it, I just wasn't sure whether I had posted it up on the DDD.

The article rewards close reading, the title notwithstanding. The parallels are many, in terms of personal failings, and the global fallout therefrom.



Quote
One of the many things that Wilhelm was convinced he was brilliant at, despite all evidence to the contrary, was “personal diplomacy,” fixing foreign policy through one-on-one meetings with other European monarchs and statesmen. In fact, Wilhelm could do neither the personal nor the diplomacy, and these meetings rarely went well. The Kaiser viewed other people in instrumental terms, was a compulsive liar, and seemed to have a limited understanding of cause and effect.

Quote
Wilhelm was a compulsive speechmaker who constantly strayed off script. Even his staff couldn’t stop him, though it tried, distributing copies of speeches to the German press before he’d actually given them. Unfortunately, the Austrian press printed the speeches as they were delivered, and the gaffes and insults soon circulated around Europe.

Quote
The Kaiser reserved particular abuse for political parties that voted against his policies. “I regard every Social Democrat as an enemy of the Fatherland,” he said, and he denounced the German Socialist party as a “gang of traitors.” August Bebel, the Socialist party leader, said that every time the Kaiser opened his mouth, the party gained another hundred thousand votes.

Quote
Wilhelm’s patronage of the aggressive, nationalistic right left him surrounded by ministers who held a collective conviction that a European war was inevitable and even desirable. Alfred von Tirpitz, Germany’s Naval chief—who realized at his first meeting with the Kaiser that he did “not live in the real world”—consciously exploited Wilhelm’s envy and rage in order to extract the astronomical sums required to build a German Navy to rival Britain’s, a project that created an arms race and became an intractable block to peace negotiations.

A major difference is that Trump does not appear to have suffer a full-blown mental and emotional collapse as Wilhelm did on occasion. Although Trump has "retired to one of his palaces," there are no reports that he has wept and complained that he’d been victimized. He saves that for Twitter.

Businesses hate uncertainty; governments even more so. Diplomacy is completely antithetical to the kind of shoot-from-the-lip ad libbing (no homework and no reading) Trump prefers. Given what history tells us about the consequences of erratic leaders making gut-based decisions, and the outcomes, this article constitutes a warning flare.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Eddie

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #94 on: June 13, 2018, 08:13:22 AM »
That didn't take long. Norway has already nominated Trump for his Nobel. Let me go on record now as saying I think Trump deserves his Nobel Prize every bit as much as Obama did.

Trump Nominated For Nobel Peace Price... By Norway

The summit in Singapore has made US President Donald Trump "a man of peace," according to two Norwegian parliamentary representatives (from the Frp party), and as NRK reports, they have nominated him for the most gifted award of all of them.

Representatives Christian Tybring-Gjedde (Frp) and Per-Willy Amundsen (Frp) believe it qualifies Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize.

"What's happening now is historical. A process is underway to ensure world peace in the future. It's a fragile process, but we must of course do what we can to help this process bring good results. I think that we can do by sending a clear signal by giving Trump the peace prize."

And amid all the left's dismay at just what was agreed, the two Norwegian parliamentarians, however, do not believe that a peace-winning nomination is too early.

"It's not a binding agreement, but it's an initiative to visit both ways, it's an initiative to end the disaster going on and to put a damper on the military exercises the United States has with South Korea. As such, this is a push to Donald Trump to continue what he has already started," says Tybring-Gjedde.

"It would not be the first time giving the peace prize to anyone involved in a process. It has happened before. Obviously, we will follow the process carefully, but at least you have arrived, I think is worth a peace prize, "says Amundsen.

The Norwegian nomination follows a group of 18 GOP lawmakers led by Rep. Luke Messer of Indiana, who signed a letter formally nominating President Trump for the 2019 Nobel Peace Prize in May.

“We can think of no one more deserving of the Committee’s recognition in 2019 than President Trump for his tireless work to bring peace to our world.”

Mission Accomplished?


The Nobel Committee received peace prize nominations at Donald Trump in both 2016, 2017 and 2018. However, this year the alarm went off, and the Nobel Institute linked the police because they thought they had received a fake nomination on Trump .

Trump's nomination this year will be for the 2019 Nobel.

"In this situation, Trump is obviously a man of peace. He tries to get something that others have not gotten, and when he makes it, he deserves fame," says Tybring-Gjedde.

Amundsen adds that he thinks the summit and the agreement between Trump and Kim, go right into Nobel's testament.

"This goes straight into the core of the Nobel testament. It's about disarmament and about creating peace. These are the results that count."

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-13/trump-nominated-nobel-peace-price-norway

The Nobel is a total joke these days, if it ever was anything else. Not only did Alfred Nobel contribute to the deaths of many thousands (perhaps millions) of people, he killed his own brother with his invention. No amount of philanthropy will ever wash away all the blood on his hands.

But if he hadn't invented dynamite, I'm sure somebody else would have.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #95 on: June 13, 2018, 08:42:38 AM »
Yes, Nobel Peace prize has become a hideous joke. Obama getting one and Trump being even considered for one is simply disgraceful. Dennis Rodman might as well be next.

And Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning got the fucking slammer for their reward. How fucked up is that?

The world's gone friggin insane.  :exp-angry: :exp-angry:

                       
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 08:44:58 AM by Golden Oxen »

Online Surly1

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #96 on: June 13, 2018, 09:22:40 AM »
Yes, Nobel Peace prize has become a hideous joke. Obama getting one and Trump being even considered for one is simply disgraceful. Dennis Rodman might as well be next.

And Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning got the fucking slammer for their reward. How fucked up is that?

The world's gone friggin insane.  :exp-angry: :exp-angry:
                   

Don't forget Reality Winner.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline azozeo

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #97 on: June 13, 2018, 02:16:11 PM »
This whole NK bread circus is like part 4 of the world is saved again super hero BS.

This is as far back as I personally can remember.

1) JFK / Khrushchev, that wasn't about nukes, it was about anti-gravity propulsion. Basically a left over from Rosenberg executions.

2) Nixon / Mao Zedong - it saved the world from high priced crap for worthless crap from W/M.

3) R.R. / Gorby, it did open trade routes to the west, for the elites.

4) U.S. Inc. Cabbage Patch Kid meets The Asian Cabbage Patch Kid.

So whats changed other than the pile of debris & garbage.

 
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline azozeo

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #98 on: June 13, 2018, 02:54:25 PM »
https://www.exopolitics.org/us-north-korea-peace-talks-made-possible-by-usaf-secret-space-program/



US North Korea Peace Talks Made Possible by USAF Secret Space Program

Written by Dr Michael Salla on June 11, 2018. Posted in Featured, Space Programs, world politics

On June 12 President Donald Trump meets with North Korea’s supreme leader, Kim Jong-Un in Singapore to resolve the confrontation over the latter’s nuclear weapons program. The on-off-on again meeting has been a surprise to many believing that the bellicose language used by both leaders throughout 2017 was a sure sign that a nuclear confrontation was inevitable.

During Kim’s January 1, New Year’s Day address, he had announced that North Korea’s nuclear weapons program was completed with the successful testing of a hydrogen bomb and an intercontinental ballistic missile, the Hwasong 15. North Korea was now capable of not only launching nuclear armed ICBM missiles into U.S. territories such as Guam and Hawaii, but was also capable of hitting the U.S. mainland. 

On January 17, South Korea announced that a diplomatic breakthrough had been reached with North Korea. The two Koreas would march together at the upcoming February 9-25 Winter Olympics, and field a joint ice hockey team.

This was followed a few weeks after the end of the Olympics, by Kim Jong-Un’s March 6 offer to put his nuclear weapons program on hold and start candid talks with the U.S. Trump immediately accepted Kim’s offer, which had been mediated behind the scenes by senior South Korean officials.

Exactly why North Korea decided to reverse its bellicose policies, improve relations with South Korea, and enter into denuclearization talks after completing its nuclear weapons program has left many media sources puzzled.

One explanation is that the talks are solely due to warming ties between North and South Korea. Another is that North Korea is desperate for cash after years of punishing economic sanctions that have been very effective.

Some believe that Kim has launched the meeting merely to gain time and does not intend to follow through on any agreements reached at the talk. Yet another explanation is that Trump is setting Kim up for failure in order to justify future military actions against North Korea, which will scapegoated as the villain.

What multiple media sources have not considered is whistleblower testimonies revealing a deeper dynamic at play at the U.S. North Korea summit.

On October 7, 2017 Trump issued two tweets where he gave a stark warning about what his administration was planning for North Korea:

click on link for remainder of article.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline Palloy2

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #99 on: June 13, 2018, 03:41:45 PM »
Quote
https://www.exopolitics.org/us-north-korea-peace-talks-made-possible-by-usaf-secret-space-program/

Essentially, once Kim realized that he had been betrayed by the Deep State/CIA faction that had secretly helped him develop a ballistic nuclear weapons program, he decided to abandon his nuclear weapons program and bellicose rhetoric against President Trump.

So another evidence-free nut-case site.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline azozeo

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #100 on: June 13, 2018, 03:59:56 PM »
Quote
https://www.exopolitics.org/us-north-korea-peace-talks-made-possible-by-usaf-secret-space-program/

Essentially, once Kim realized that he had been betrayed by the Deep State/CIA faction that had secretly helped him develop a ballistic nuclear weapons program, he decided to abandon his nuclear weapons program and bellicose rhetoric against President Trump.

So another evidence-free nut-case site.

Are you, half in the bag all the fucking time ?
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline Palloy2

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #101 on: June 13, 2018, 04:15:47 PM »
Quote
AZ: Are you, half in the bag all the fucking time ?

No, at least I don't think I am "half in the bag", whatever that means, but my razor-sharp mind can recognise BS when I see it.  Who in their right mind did you think was going to be taken in by that stupid crap?  It's a waste of everybody's time and bandwidth.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline azozeo

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #102 on: June 13, 2018, 04:22:51 PM »
Quote
AZ: Are you, half in the bag all the fucking time ?

No, at least I don't think I am "half in the bag", whatever that means, but my razor-sharp mind can recognise BS when I see it.  Who in their right mind did you think was going to be taken in by that stupid crap?  It's a waste of everybody's time and bandwidth.

Oh, almighty bandwidth god of cyber-ness please don't banish me to the outer cosmos.

Dude....
It's my reality, & I'll share it if I feel like it.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline Palloy2

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #103 on: June 13, 2018, 08:59:28 PM »
Even in this apparently balanced report, they can't help but slip in these propaganda pieces.
Kim didn't get all the agreements down in writing, so when he objects, Trump will just deny it.

https://news.sky.com/story/confusion-as-north-korea-says-us-will-lift-sanctions-11403122
Confusion as North Korea says US will lift sanctions
By Sharon Marris
14 June 2018

North Korea's state media has reported that Donald Trump has "expressed his intention" to lift crippling sanctions against the country - despite the US president saying that they will remain until "nukes are no longer a factor".

Donald Trump met Kim Jong Un for a historic summit at a luxurious Singapore hotel on Tuesday, with both leaders signing a deal regarding the "complete denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula".

But it had always been Mr Kim's goal to rid his country of US sanctions and, according to the state-run KCNA news agency, that is exactly what he achieved.

Following the "meeting of the century", KCNA said Mr Trump had agreed to lift sanctions as relations improve, as well as halt US-South Korea military exercises and offer security guarantees.

There was no US response to the report, but sanctions had not been mentioned in the statement signed by the two leaders at the conclusion of the summit.

At a news conference afterwards, Mr Trump had said he would like sanctions to be lifted but that this would not happen immediately.

The discrepancy will go some way to justifying fears expressed before the summit about the risks of having the two leaders sit down for their first meeting with no aides or advisers to record what was said.

Today's six-page edition of the North Korean newspaper Rodong Sinmun has been dominated by photos of the two leaders shaking hands, strolling around the hotel together and enjoying the sort of lunch that many North Koreans could only dream of.

In the early hours of Wednesday morning, Mr Trump proclaimed that the world had "taken a big step back from potential nuclear catastrophe".

He tweeted: "No more rocket launches, nuclear testing or research!

"The hostages are back home with their families.

"Thank you to Chairman Kim, our day together was historic!"

Meanwhile, North Korea's neighbours have expressed concern over Mr Trump's promise to stop joint military exercises with South Korea - drills which have long angered Pyongyang.

KCNA reported that Mr Kim had said it was "urgent" for North Korea and the US to halt "irritating and hostile military actions against each other".

The news agency's report quoted Mr Kim as saying that the two countries should commit to avoid antagonising each other and take legal, institutional steps to guarantee this.

The report added that Mr Trump said he "understood" and promised to stop the exercises while the two sides were talking.

Mr Trump himself described the exercises as expensive and "very provocative". South Korea and Japan both depend heavily on the US presence in their countries as a deterrent against North Korea.

Japan's defence minister Itsunori Onodera said the joint exercises were "vital" for security, adding: "We would like to seek an understanding of this between Japan, the US and South Korea."

South Korea's presidential Blue House said it needed "to find out the precise meaning or intentions" of Mr Trump's statement.

With no concrete commitments for denuclearisation by North Korea and no reference to the country's terrible human rights record, many critics say the summit was a missed opportunity for the US leader.

Former US vice president Joe Biden said Mr Trump had given North Korea multiple "wins up front without getting anything in return".

Among the US concessions was attending the summit at all, giving Mr Kim the legitimacy he craves.

Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un struck an optimistic tone at the start of the summit

Mr Biden accused Mr Trump of taking "an inexcusable and irresponsible approach" by not being fully prepared for the meeting.

Moon Seong-mook, a former South Korean military official and current head of the Unification Strategy Centre in Seoul, said the summit had been a "win" for Mr Kim.

He added: "I am concerned that the summit between Trump and Kim will prove to be a setback in the global efforts to denuclearise North Korea and also introduce instability in the alliance between Seoul and Washington."
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline Palloy2

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Re: The Korea thread
« Reply #104 on: June 15, 2018, 08:59:54 PM »
Pepe suggests that “Reaffirming the April 27, 2018, Panmunjom Declaration, ..." locks the US into "complete denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula".  I'm not so sure.  It would have been just as easy to put in exactly what was meant - that was what everybody expected all along, but it was left out and only added in by Trump's media announcement straight after the meeting.  Now we have to wait until this becomes a problem before the WW3 clock starts ticking again.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-14/pepe-escobar-key-word-trump-kim-show
This Is The Key Word In The Trump-Kim Show
Pepe Escobar
06/15/2018

By reaffirming the Panmunjom Declaration, the US President has committed to bringing its military back from South Korea and thus a complete denuclearization of the South as well as the North...

The Trump-Kim geopolitical reality-TV show – surreal for some – offered unparalleled entries to the annals of international diplomacy. It will be tough to upstage the US President pulling an iPad and showing Kim Jong-un the cheesy trailer of a straight-to-video 1980s B-grade action movie – complete with a Sylvester Stallone cameo – casting the two leaders as heroes destined to save the world’s 7 billion people.

Away from the TV, the former “Rocket Man”, now respectfully recast in Trump terminology as “Chairman Kim”, did strike a formidable coup by completely erasing the dreaded acronym CVID – or “complete, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization” – from the final text of the Singapore joint statement.

Throughout the pre-summit negotiations, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) had always stressed an “action-for-action” strategy leading to denuclearization, as in Pyongyang being compensated every step of the way instead of waiting until after complete denuclearization – a process that could last over a decade – to be eligible for economic benefits.

The Singapore joint statement enshrines exactly what the Russia-China strategic partnership – formalized in the recent Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) summit – was suggesting from the beginning: a double freeze.

The DPRK holds off on any new nuclear and missile tests while the US and South Korea stop the “war games” (Trump’s terminology).

This logical sequence of the Sino-Russian roadmap is based on what South Korean President Moon Jae-in agreed with Kim Jong-un at the inter-Korean summit last April. And that ties in with what North Korea, South Korea and Russia had already discussed at the Far East summit in Vladivostok last September, as Asia Times reported; economic integration between Russia and the two Koreas, including the crucial connectivity of a future Trans-Korean railway with the Trans-Siberian.

Once again, this is all about Eurasia integration; increased trade between North Korea and Northeast China, concerning mostly Liaoning, Jilin and Heilongjiang provinces; and total, physical connectivity of both Koreas to the Eurasian heartland.

That’s yet another instance of the New Silk Roads, or Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) meeting the Eurasia Economic Union (EAEU). And not by accident South Korea wants to connect deeper with both BRI and the EAEU.
When in doubt, re-read Panmunjom

The Singapore joint statement is not a deal; it’s a statement.

The absolutely key item is number 3: “Reaffirming the April 27, 2018, Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.”

This means that the US and North Korea will work towards denuclearization not only in what concerns the DPRK but the whole Korean Peninsula.

Much more than “…the DPRK commits to work toward the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula”, the keywords are in fact    “reaffirming the April 27, 2018, Panmunjom Declaration…” 

Even before Singapore, everyone knew the DPRK would not “de-nuke” (Trump terminology) for nothing, especially when promised just some vague US “guarantees”.

Predictably, both US neocon and humanitarian imperialist factions are unanimous in their fury, blasting the absence of “meat” in the joint statement. In fact there’s plenty of meat. Singapore reaffirms the Panmunjom Declaration, which is a deal between North Korea and South Korea.

By signing the Singapore joint statement, Washington has been put on notice of the Panmunjom Declaration. In law, when you take notice of a fact, you can’t ignore it later. The DPRK’s commitment to denuclearize in the Singapore statement is a reaffirmation of its commitment to denuclearize in the Panmunjom Declaration, with all of the conditions attached to it. And Trump acknowledged that by signing the Singapore statement.

The Panmunjom Declaration stresses that:

    “South and North Korea confirmed the common goal of realizing, through complete denuclearization, a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula. South and North Korea shared the view that the measures being initiated by North Korea are very meaningful and crucial for the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula and agreed to carry out their respective roles and responsibilities in this regard. South and North Korea agreed to actively seek the support and cooperation of the international community for the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.”

That’s the commitment. “International community”, as everyone knows, is code for the US as The Great Decider. If Washington does not bring back its military from South Korea, there will be no denuclearization. Essentially, that’s the deal discussed between Kim and President Xi Jinping in their two crucial, pre-Singapore meetings. Get the US out of the peninsula, and we have your back.

So all focus should be on “reaffirming”, the key word in the Singapore joint statement.
"The State is a body of armed men."

 

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