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Some Inconvenient Truths About Collapse Economics
« on: September 02, 2018, 02:07:09 AM »


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Published on The Doomstead Diner on September 2, 2018






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One of the first collapse pundits I ever read was Chris Martenson, way back before he turned his site into pay-for-view. I read The Crash Course, and took it to heart, like a lot of doomers. I know there are people who check in here who hold Chris in high regard. I do too, but my continued experience with collapse since 2010 when I started prepping has led me to some conclusions about typical collapse planning advice that I want to write about.



And I'm not just singling out Chris, who is a sincere, smart guy who gets it right about a whole lot of things. What I want to get to has to do, not with what happens AFTER the SHTF and BAU ends, but to WHAT happens between NOW, today, and THEN, whenever THEN turns out to be. It applies to each and every one of several collapse pundits whom I've read who all agree on one or two or three important issues.



One issue is the automatic knee-jerk assumption that everyone is better off if they're debt free.



Another other issue is that the best hedge against an uncertain future is to buy and hold gold (and/or silver), to the exclusion of any other wealth preservation strategy.



A third issue is that you need to sell your house and move to some "redoubt" or doomstead.



All of these ideas make enough sense that they tend to be accepted as gospel in the doomer community. But like most things in life, the truth is complicated, and and this kind of approach, which I'll call Collapse Financial Planning for Dummies, is an oversimplification, and it contains some seriously bad thinking.



The prevailing paradigm in the collapse community is that all debt is bad (assumably because debt-based money is evil) and that those who carry much of any debt will somehow all be swept away when BAU ends and nobody has income anymore to pay their bills, etc, etc.



Houses will be worthless because they'll be abandoned when the die-off comes and JIT delivery ends and the only people left standing will be people living on rural doomsteads.



And the only assets worth holding are preps, gold, silver, and farmland.



Over and over, I've read well-meaning and supposedly well informed people who claim expertise, say these things. If you read the collapse blogosphere, it's everywhere, and the people who were saying it 8 years ago are still saying it.



I have some real problems with this. People who traded in their 401K's and bought gold and/or silver in order to save their bacon about the time I started prepping, at the beginning of 2011, should look carefully at their feet to look for bullet holes.



Gold was about 1400 bucks an oz at the end of 2010. Now it's about $1200. The S&P on the other hand, has tripled. Are stocks in a bubble? Hell, yeah. But they still tripled in dollar value. That's money you could have used to buy a lot of fucking preps, folks.



Preps are important, and I believe in preps and tools and solar panels, and having a plot of land for food gardens and maybe subsistence farming (which is not easy if you aren't born into it, unfortunately). But all that costs money. I don't apologize for making money. People who claim not to care about money are either naive or lying, or they should enter the monastery, because they belong there.



Hell, it's not easy for people who were born into farming to subsistence farm, but it's doable. For most people it's a total fantasy. It takes skillz, baby. Mad skillz.



This last year I started to see stories about people who took this good advice several years back and went off-grid. Now they're coming back. Maybe not to suburbia, but closer to work and stores and civilization. Off-grid living is HARD and it has it's own problem set….and so far, working people are mostly still working, even if their standard of living isn't great.



I'm not knocking gold.



I own some gold and more silver. It's a nice insurance policy, if you can afford it.



It insures you against one thing…..total currency collapse. It's done, over the last eight years, exactly what it's supposed to do, which is hold some value. Over historical time, it has a good track record for holding value when many things lose their value, particularly fiat currency, stocks, bonds and ETF's and other "paper" financial instruments. But over the short term, it's value against fiat currencies varies quite a lot. Ouch!



And I'm not knocking freedom from debt. But freedom from debt is more valuable when debt is expensive than when debt is dirt cheap. We've been through eight years of crazy cheap debt. In 2015 I got two new mortgages for 4.5%. it sounded high, until I looked at the historical record. Pre-2008 crash, the last time mortgage interest was that low was 1949.



And there is debt and there is debt.



Debt incurred for cheap consumer shit that ends up in the trash is always bad, no matter how cheap it is. But debt that helps you acquire a tangible asset, especially one that might be an inflation hedge or (gasp) a good investment, doesn't rate the same scorn.



Debt incurred to make a cash flow investment is "just bizness". If the numbers work, and the deal makes money, and the risk is not high, WTF not?



If you had grown up somewhere like Mexico, where you can't even get a mortgage to build your own house, you might have more appreciation for the benefits of carrying a little debt. The median home price here is lower than Portland or Seattle or anywhere in California, but but it's still $300K. Try saving 300K to buy a house. You might live long enough to move in when you're 60, unless of course, prices keep going up with inflation.



And not a single pundit ever mentions that if you are somebody with a high income, that being debt free has enormous negative tax consequences in this country. Probably this is because most of the respected pundits never had any real money in the first place to have to pay taxes on.



You don't write about things that are completely outside your sphere of knowledge. We have a system that was set up to favor debtors. It's not a stable system, that's true….and if you have a mountain of debt when the music stops on this little game of musical chairs, you'll get wiped out. That's the true part. But it  is NOT the ONLY part you need to understand.



Sorry. That's the real truth.



We have a system set up to FORCE people into stocks and bonds. Because that's what the government wants (because Wall street tells them to want it). What I mean is that the tax consequences of NOT doing it are not insignificant. It costs you money, and the more money you make, the more money it costs you to go against the flow.



All 401K'S and IRA's and various other pensions are designed to steer you into stocks and bonds. There is some leeway, you can hold gold in an IRA. But forget the minutiae. Basically the government gives you tax breaks to make financial decisions that they want you to make. They have a carrot and a stick, and they use both to get what they want.



You literally have to decide if fighting them is worth it. Sometimes it is. Sometimes, though, it makes sense to understand where you can get ahead by participating, to some degree, in the "sanctioned" investments that have been set up primarily to benefit the rich.



I got out of the stock market in 2010 or so, because I believed all the doomer hype. I could have bought the five or six most stupid, popular stocks at that time and made BANK over the last 8 years, but I didn't. Instead I sold my Whole Foods in 2010, and then watched it split again and then watched it get bought out by Amazon. Yeah. Great move there.



I made some money trading last year, which I wrote about here. But I've mostly stayed out of stocks all these years  because I viewed stocks as an unstable bubble that would pop, and I still do. That much is 100% right. But when I see a short term opportunity, I'm willing to take it. I made 90K last year trading pot stocks. I paid my taxes, paid some debts, and finally, last month, I bought another rent house. I roll the profits back in.



I'm not saying the world is economically stable, that collapse isn't coming, or that you should be bullish on stocks now, which is madness. But while gold was drifting around and ending up slightly lower, clueless idiots made a lot of money in equities. Just dumb luck, to some degree. But more so because the markets are manipulated, and they went with the flow instead of going contrarian.



The point IS that my risk averseness cost me money. I did not come out ahead by taking the advice of Chris Martenson and the other collapse gurus…or by taking the advice of any of the dozens of well-respected goldbugs out there. To the degree I followed their advice, I lost money, and I missed opportunities to make money.



I also lost some money through my own stupidity. But I learned from that. People should learn from their mistakes, and I learned a few things the hard way, especially about leverage, which almost nobody understands…..outside of the world of professional trading. You can read about using leverage, but losing your ass teaches you the most. Trust me on that.



But I digress. Back to the subjects at hand.



The most important thing to understand about saving and investing is to get WHY it is necessary in the first place. Do you know? Think about it for a minute and pick an answer now…don't read ahead until you do. (Don't peek.)



Okay.



If you had to think about it….that's a problem. You should know. The reason is simple. One day you will be old and unable to work and you will likely still want to eat, have a bed and a roof over your head, and a few amenities to make your life comfortable.



If you don't think you need that, or you know you don't, then save yourself a lot of effort, because saving money and investing the right way is HARD. It requires discipline and a willingness to delay gratification. It requires making good decisions and then staying the course over a long, long time. It requires the ability to change course, but more times than not it takes the confidence to NOT change course at every bend in the road.



I save and invest, not so much for me, but for my beloved. Women often outlive their husbands now by decades, and the moment I croak, my dear wife will be out of a job, since she works for me. She will have to retire at that moment, or at least within weeks or months.



That's responsibility. I have a responsibility to take care of another person besides me. And I take that seriously. So I have damn good reasons to save and invest, other than adding zeroes to my fat-ass bank account. I do what I do because I don't want my old age or that of my wife to really suck. For me, that's reason enough. You have to figure that part out for yourself.



Younger people look ahead and see collapse and tend to think none of this matters for them. Because….why bother, if the end of the world is a few months or a few years away? All I can say is that I was young, not that long ago. And now I'm on the verge of old age. Are you so sure that collapse is going to wipe the slate clean that you want to risk being wrong? Do your feel lucky…er..or is it do you feel unlucky?



I don't know the future, but I know everyone who was writing about collapse in 2010 got it wrong in the short run. EVERYONE.



This is NOT intended to make anybody do what I'm doing. I won't write about what I do in depth, because that isn't my purpose.I just think people need to have a PLAN.



I'd say that I have Plan A which is aimed at my belief that I might possibly be old enough not to be able to work before TSHTF. My plan is aimed at making my day job optional by 7 years from now. That isn't young. It's 70 years old. I might work longer. There is nothing particularly magic about retiring.



But ….just for example…….I mostly buy a certain class of real estate now. I do that for several reasons.



1. It's tax advantaged.



One year (I think it was four years ago now)  I paid 240K in income tax. It was nearly double what I had planned for…. I had to struggle to pay it. I wasn't planning on that. I had to use up almost all of my cash savings I had at the time. My problem was that I had paid off a lot of debt, owed very little, and had put my home and my lake cottage on a 15 year mortgage and thereby lost a couple of big mortgage interest deductions. Also, my kids were no longer dependents. I never intend to do that again. I now have lots of mortgage interest and expense items related to investments. My taxes have come way down. Taxes matter, if you make a lot of money.



2. My houses (modest single family homes only) flow cash. Positive cash flow is essential to make the kind of deals I like work.



That means I get monthly  income. Rent. Enough to pay the debt and the maintenance and the insurance and a little more. Cash flow is absolutely FAR superior to any kind of "flipping" or buying anything on the premise that price will automatically go up. Prices often go down, not just up. Cash flow buys your dinner whether prices are up or down.



Rents can go down, sure. That's why you have to either pay a huge down payment (well advised) or have enough savings to cover shortfalls (or both). You do have to plan these days for deflationary events. I expect one within two years, and perhaps as soon as next month. Life is uncertain. Don't get over-leveraged. That's what makes people go broke. Borrow a little money…what you need, not as much as you possibly can. Pick one mortgage at a time and pay it off. I own two properties outright now, and the rest have 40-50% equity.



3. I borrowed all the money I owe at or below the current real inflation rate (which I expect to go higher). And (this is important) I locked in some stupid low rate loans for 30 years. And houses are still a reasonable inflation hedge at this time, meaning that they appreciate faster than the inflation rate over the long haul. That can change. But it's been true and it still is true, in my market area, since 1990. 



I know all the doom and gloom scenarios. I read Harry Dent. I read Jim Kunstler. But by the time TSHTF, my loans are likely to be paid. If you own it, you only HAVE to pay the taxes. I started a long time ago. But…if the Fed crashes the markets and they drop interest rates AGAIN down to the 3 to 4% level, I'm probably a buyer again. That could easily happen. It's at least as likely over the short term as is a sudden end to western civilization.



I could pay most of my debt off in full now if I needed to, but I don't…because I don't want to, and I don't need to do that. If you borrow below the real inflation rate (which has been possible for the last several years, until very recently) and the property appreciation keeps up with inflation, then the interest ultimately costs you NOTHING.



I don't go by the inflation rate the government quotes. It's higher, believe it. I expect to pay my loan off with dollars far cheaper than today's dollars. Dollar dropping? Good! Let the son-of-a-bitch fall.



I fear a precipitously RISING dollar, because it's a signal of a deflationary event on the horizon. Anybody who wants deflation must not own any inflated assets. And almost ALL assets are inflated these days. Bubbles do pop. Be prepared for that. But it's a thing to plan for, not a thing to keep you from making any plan at all..



If you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. But most people are HURT by deflation, no matter what level they're at. But I am well hedged for inflation and deflation. I can weather most any financial storm now.



Don't drink the Collapse Kool-Aid. Nobody knows the future with certainty. Plan A, I retire comfortably. Plan B, I subsistence farm as best I can. I can't control collapse, but I can, at least to some degree, control my own destiny.



The collapse pundits only ever see a need for Plan B. the older you are, the more you need a Plan A, in my book.



It's been almost 8 years since I started prepping, and BAU is still happening. I don't know how long it will last…but I don't have to pray for collapse to feel good about my own future.



 



Offline Agent Graves

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Re: Some Inconvenient Truths About Collapse Economics
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2018, 07:24:02 AM »
This last year I started to see stories about people who took this good advice several years back and went off-grid. Now they're coming back. Maybe not to suburbia, but closer to work and stores and civilization. Off-grid living is HARD and it has it's own problem set….and so far, working people are mostly still working, even if their standard of living isn't great.

I fit that bill and am living in the city again now for almost a year, but dont lump me in with Lots Wife. I havent taken my eye off the ball and lost sight of the goal. Just today I was discussing and planning with my son to go back to the stead for a month in summer when the days are long and we can get a lot done. A greenhouse will be built, 4x4 and all the machines run, oiling, mowing, cleaning, pest control, any repairs to netting, watering orchards etc.  Thats my vacation because its my priority and purpose. For now I cant see a way to live there full time because I need to earn those buckaroos and its just too much travel, tiring. My neighbors there do have those mad skills in growing food and I will ask their help at the time for growing vegetables. What Im not going to do is let weeds and rats take over and machines seize up, because slow collapse makes boiling frogs feel comfortable enough for now.

As for gold, the major adversaries are furiously buying it up and will release a gold backed currency when all the major currencies we are used to trusting have hyperinflated and essentially collapsed. At that time gold will buy a lot of the new thing.



 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 07:50:07 AM by Agent Graves »
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Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: Some Inconvenient Truths About Collapse Economics
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2018, 08:12:15 AM »
I haven't discovered an inconvenient truth in the article, and some untruths. Let me deal with just one misconception which is very common among those who have just a general knowledge of finance and markets.

Let's deal with this tax advantaged notion which is a favored selling tool to the uninitiated in these matters of investment.

In order to keep it as simple as possible and for me to explain it clearly without the verbiage that obscures an understanding of the issue. My readers know that that is my way and method, for good reason. Clarity and Focus. I have decided to create a simple example of why tax advantaged is a crock of shit used to sell garbage or over priced investments to the unwary investor.

Boston Mass decided to sell bonds in a public sewer to the public which is not tax exempt.

Lets say for simplicity it yields 8%.

Boston then gets a ruling that the sewer is qualified to be a tax exempt municipal security.

The yield then becomes 4% because the purchaser can exempt the interest from taxation.

A wise studious investor can see clearly by this example that the tax exempt feature favors only the seller of the bond and does nothing for the purchaser monetarily.

Think about it, very simple but accurate. This is what the market does to ALL INSTRUMENTS that are tax advantaged, it adjusts each, in it's own way, from real estate, bonds, annuities, homes, reits, farmland, you name it, the tax advantage or lack of of is in the price period.

Those who are conned by this and who do not understand it will come back with all sorts of nonsensical arguments to refute it and obfuscate . Their income, the state they live in, their tax bracket, marital status, on and on with verbiage and examples to confuse and obfuscate this simple fact. The market adjusts the price to everything that is called tax exempt or advantaged to the benefit of the seller.

Trust me, It's an Inconvenient Truth.

                                             

Offline Eddie

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Re: Some Inconvenient Truths About Collapse Economics
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2018, 11:30:26 AM »
The market can't predict the future well enough to do what you're saying. No way, no how.

The bond example makes  a certain amount of sense (on the face of it)  but that hardly make  it universally right (or even right at all, actually).

Bond yields are fixed. Prices vary. People buy them for the yield but benefit from a rise in price, as their fixed rate bond becomes more valuable as yields fall. (Or vice versa, of course).

The market knows the yield. It does not know what the price of a thirty year bond will be thirty years from now. The only way to guess future price is using historical data and smooth out the curves, or use some other magic actuarial formula. Not my bag, but math is math.

Tax advantages have everything to do with the person or entity paying taxes. It varies, depending on income level, corporation or individual. Type of job. Self-employed or working for a paycheck. All over the map.

The year I paid 240K, General Electric paid zero taxes on a 5 billion dollar net. That stuck in my mind, somehow.

People can pay rent or get a mortgage (if they aren't homeless). Renting favors some tax situations and owning your home favors others. The government has made it advantageous, tax-wise, for most two-income middle class families in America to  buy a home.

This is a real thing. I didn't make it up. The reason it's a fairly widely accepted concept is because it's true. A home mortgage deduction can save you money on your taxes.

There is even a 500K tax loophole for people who make a capital gain on home ownership when they sell. I was surprised when this was passed, and I expect it to go at some point, as financial repression increases. But it's still there now.

As are many other valid strategies, like tax deferred instruments for saving, 401K just being the most common. This has nothing to do with asset price AT ALL.  It has to do with how gains accrue over time.

I have to reject your argument GO. It simply doesn't stand up to much scrutiny.






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Offline Eddie

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Re: Some Inconvenient Truths About Collapse Economics
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2018, 09:06:41 AM »
This last year I started to see stories about people who took this good advice several years back and went off-grid. Now they're coming back. Maybe not to suburbia, but closer to work and stores and civilization. Off-grid living is HARD and it has it's own problem set….and so far, working people are mostly still working, even if their standard of living isn't great.

I fit that bill and am living in the city again now for almost a year, but dont lump me in with Lots Wife. I havent taken my eye off the ball and lost sight of the goal. Just today I was discussing and planning with my son to go back to the stead for a month in summer when the days are long and we can get a lot done. A greenhouse will be built, 4x4 and all the machines run, oiling, mowing, cleaning, pest control, any repairs to netting, watering orchards etc.  Thats my vacation because its my priority and purpose. For now I cant see a way to live there full time because I need to earn those buckaroos and its just too much travel, tiring. My neighbors there do have those mad skills in growing food and I will ask their help at the time for growing vegetables. What Im not going to do is let weeds and rats take over and machines seize up, because slow collapse makes boiling frogs feel comfortable enough for now.

As for gold, the major adversaries are furiously buying it up and will release a gold backed currency when all the major currencies we are used to trusting have hyperinflated and essentially collapsed. At that time gold will buy a lot of the new thing.

Gold is gold. I don't look for it to get back to $400, which is where I got on the train. My only point is that isn't the only asset worth owning. Not by a damn sight.

Having a place cold enough to grow vegetables is the deal here, and greenhouses are a good investment in a hot climate. I have ideas for passive cooling and cooling using solar, but I have failed to achieve lift-off on my project. I also know people who manage to get it done, but it isn't easy.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Agent Graves

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Re: Some Inconvenient Truths About Collapse Economics
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2018, 04:52:49 PM »
This last year I started to see stories about people who took this good advice several years back and went off-grid. Now they're coming back. Maybe not to suburbia, but closer to work and stores and civilization. Off-grid living is HARD and it has it's own problem set….and so far, working people are mostly still working, even if their standard of living isn't great.

I fit that bill and am living in the city again now for almost a year, but dont lump me in with Lots Wife. I havent taken my eye off the ball and lost sight of the goal. Just today I was discussing and planning with my son to go back to the stead for a month in summer when the days are long and we can get a lot done. A greenhouse will be built, 4x4 and all the machines run, oiling, mowing, cleaning, pest control, any repairs to netting, watering orchards etc.  Thats my vacation because its my priority and purpose. For now I cant see a way to live there full time because I need to earn those buckaroos and its just too much travel, tiring. My neighbors there do have those mad skills in growing food and I will ask their help at the time for growing vegetables. What Im not going to do is let weeds and rats take over and machines seize up, because slow collapse makes boiling frogs feel comfortable enough for now.

As for gold, the major adversaries are furiously buying it up and will release a gold backed currency when all the major currencies we are used to trusting have hyperinflated and essentially collapsed. At that time gold will buy a lot of the new thing.

Gold is gold. I don't look for it to get back to $400, which is where I got on the train. My only point is that isn't the only asset worth owning. Not by a damn sight.

Having a place cold enough to grow vegetables is the deal here, and greenhouses are a good investment in a hot climate. I have ideas for passive cooling and cooling using solar, but I have failed to achieve lift-off on my project. I also know people who manage to get it done, but it isn't easy.

 I got it the first time, ff you disagree theres going to be Rubllion/Remnimbullion (yes I just made that up then), just say it I can handle it. No need to be as diplomatic as a guy with three 5's on his chart..

Yesterday I had my retired and bored father along for the 30 min ride to and from work and I mentioned I know of someone who made close to 100k on the pot stocks in 1 yr, so maybe try that if he loves gambling so much. That resulted in a lecture on saving bitcoin details on a memory stick (as though crap computer skill is the same as shitty investing), to complement all the 'stay in this lane' (meant for overtaking) and 'take that road, its got less traffic' (but a roundabout every 1/4 mile). This got me talking about the goal of meditation being to have complete control over anger, and if you take that path you will open the door to getting tested more and more, its not all upside in physical and mental health. Just like for him being vegetarian is not all upside in helping the environment and animals (really just religious observance) if you get anaemic.  Then, supposed to be invisible in an empty office, notices a kid on unpaid placement is Indian and so really should chat to him, asks how he likes working with me and other such wince/shudder/cringe things.  The ride home I said nothing at all, I need to meditate more, get serious again. Its so much better if you have a group to stay disciplined.

Anyway all this reply is more because you were interested in your and your boys numerology. The Arrow of Frustration: void of 456, denotes often a strained relation with one or both parents. It mainly signifies setbacks in life and problems with procrastination and prioritization. I thought you might find that and my example useful, but hope you read Mark Gruner's Numbers of Life. Im also going to delete all this later lol.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 05:14:03 PM by Agent Graves »
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Offline azozeo

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Some Inconvenient Truths About Collapse Economics - Not Pretty
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2018, 06:09:05 PM »

Currencies don't melt down randomly. This is only the first stage of a complete re-ordering of the global financial system. Take a look at the Shanghai Stock Market (China) and tell me what you see: A complete meltdown, right? More specifically, a four-month battle to cling to the key technical support of the 200-week moving average (the red line). Once the support finally broke, the index crashed. Now take a look at the U.S. S&P 500 stock market (SPX): SPX is soaring to new highs, not just climbing a wall of worry but leaping over it. So the engine of global growth--China--is exhibiting signs of serious disorder, and the world's consumerist paradise--the U.S.-- is on a euphoric high (Ibogaine in the water supply?) This divergence is worth pondering. How can the two economies that have powered a 28-year Bull Market in just about everything (setting aside that spot of bother in 2008-09) be responding so differently to the global economy and global financial system's woes?



https://inteldinarchronicles.blogspot.com/2018/09/the-global-financial-system-is.html
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Some Inconvenient Truths About Collapse Economics - Not Pretty
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2018, 06:34:00 PM »

Currencies don't melt down randomly. This is only the first stage of a complete re-ordering of the global financial system. Take a look at the Shanghai Stock Market (China) and tell me what you see: A complete meltdown, right? More specifically, a four-month battle to cling to the key technical support of the 200-week moving average (the red line). Once the support finally broke, the index crashed. Now take a look at the U.S. S&P 500 stock market (SPX): SPX is soaring to new highs, not just climbing a wall of worry but leaping over it. So the engine of global growth--China--is exhibiting signs of serious disorder, and the world's consumerist paradise--the U.S.-- is on a euphoric high (Ibogaine in the water supply?) This divergence is worth pondering. How can the two economies that have powered a 28-year Bull Market in just about everything (setting aside that spot of bother in 2008-09) be responding so differently to the global economy and global financial system's woes?



https://inteldinarchronicles.blogspot.com/2018/09/the-global-financial-system-is.html
I'd actually seen that, didn't post it, but thought it interesting. Thanks.
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Online RE

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Re: Some Inconvenient Truths About Collapse Economics
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2018, 04:53:10 AM »
Now cross-posted on Global Economic Intersection:icon_sunny:

http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201809060016

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Some Inconvenient Truths About Collapse Economics
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2018, 05:15:47 AM »
Oh God. I hate that shit. Now the the trolls will have me for lunch. I won't be reading the comments over there. I hope they don't all descend on the forum. It's been a nice quiet week,
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Online RE

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Re: Some Inconvenient Truths About Collapse Economics
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2018, 05:21:13 AM »
Oh God. I hate that shit. Now the the trolls will have me for lunch. I won't be reading the comments over there. I hope they don't all descend on the forum. It's been a nice quiet week,

JL usually lets me know if there is substantial commentary over there.  Sometimes it is good.  I had a great conversation with Per Kurowski a former manager at the World Bank after my Money Valve articles were published there.

This is how we build circulation dude.  We're not famous yet, but if I can stay alive long enough we will be.  :icon_sunny:

RE
SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN

 

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