AuthorTopic: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?  (Read 1899 times)

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Published on The Doomstead Diner on March 21, 2018






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It is commonplace for any group of people with similar views to call other people "sheeple", because THEY don't understand what WE understand.  At Doomstead Diner we understand there is an important energy shortage problem coming up.  There is no solution to this problem, because the next best option after fossil fuels is wind turbines, and there are only a few good windy places to put them, and they are an intermittent source at best.  PV and nukes are way behind wind in terms of the ERoEI of the technology. 



So the energy cost of building the wind turbine infrastructure, and upgrading the grid to handle the extra amount of electricity being generated, as well as all the electric cars and trucks and trains and planes is gigantic, and must be done using current energy sources, fossil fuels. And that's on top of keeping everything running in the current world.  The transition should have been started 30 years ago, and now cannot be completed, not even close.   



Ahead lies economic collapse, because without more energy every year, the world's manufacturing base cannot keep growing, and neither can profits, so debts cannot be repaid with interest, and that will lead to an implosion of the financial system, and an end to trade.



So if there is no solution, what are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ? 






March in the streets in protest?  We have been doing that for 30 years without effect and we know what will happen – either it will be peaceful and we will be ignored, or it will be violent and we will be confronted with a militarised police force, backed up by the courts and prison system.  If we attempt to outmatch them with guns, they will use the armed forces with drones and hellfire missiles, or even full on aerial bombing and attacks with tanks, like in Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria. Then we would be driven into the hills to live in caves and be slowly starved to death, while the sheeple will be herded into FEMA camps and fed on soylent green biscuits, becoming slave labour for the food gardens.



So I'm suggesting the only thing left to do is to try to achieve a lower energy standard of living, like what our future is going to be, and getting some experience while having some independence.  This will require we effectively drop out of the system, and since there is no way to live like this in any first world country, I would suggest you move somewhere else where there is already a low standard of living.  While the system continues, it should be possible to live some kind of existence.  Forget about owning land, big house, motorised transport, internet, education for your kids, and three square meals a day – that will not be possible.



It is likely you will not want to do this, or the wife and kids won't want to, but anything else only helps the current system continue and brings a worse future on the planet.  Fortunately, while the system undergoes its final death throes, you don't have to go to zero all in one go.  This is how I planned it, your ideas may be different.



The places which have the most bearable climate in a low-energy society are tropical islands.  There are basicly two kinds of these islands, coral atolls, which are low-lying, with little water and no good soil, and volcanic islands with good soil and high rainfall, these invariably have rainforest growing on them.  You can usually get to these islands by ships delivering first world materials. Usually you can't buy land, but can lease it fairly easily, especially if it has a house with a garden on it.  No heating needed, water is collected off the roof, sewerage is via septic tank.






Transport is by walking and buses for most people, but I have a car that was imported second-hand from Japan. I give everyone lifts, and they are always very pleased.



Definitely DON'T start by chopping down the forest or removing all vegetation from the soil.  Start with your compost heap, a simple loop of mesh fencing, and then clear your garden area and plant your base crops, bananas, sweet potatoes, paw-paws, and tarot. Most familiar vegetables and fruit won't like the conditions, visit local markets to see what does.  Heavily mulch everything because you don't want the soil washing away in heavy rains. Mulch breaks down very quickly when hot and humid/wet for weeks at a time. Chickens are ideal to have around the house, but must be locked up in snake-proof cages at sundown.  Snake-proof means half-inch mesh, with larger cages needing heavier 3×2" mesh underneath, all held together with C-clips.






They produce eggs, occasional meat, and fertiser, which needs to be collected up fresh and applied daily to the garden.  I feed mine grains to supplement their free ranging diet and to teach them where 'home' is.  If you throw a handful of grains on the ground, rice, millet and sorghum will grow by themselves, but you might want to fence the area off at the start.  Gathering in the forest can add to the fare, but you have to walk a lot, and have books to identify everything, as there will be plenty of poisonous things.



Electricity is very handy, even if it is unreliable – I get black-outs frequently.  It was off for over six weeks after the last cyclone, so having a small gasoline-powered generator as a back-up is worth it. I have computers with a satellite dish on the roof, giving good internet access and a VoIP telephone connection to Australia and beyond.  Another satellite dish and a set-top box brings me more TV channels than I can scan through.






Hospitals are a bit of a challenge, mostly in understanding the doctors.  I used to have a mower to keep the drive edges clear, but it was rusting away and then snapped its drive belt.  I left it until the ambulance refused to drive in during an emergency, and then I had to pay to have someone else do it.  Old age is a challenge itself, definitely be young and fit when you start off.



Alternative suggestions welcome.










Online RE

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2018, 02:52:30 AM »
Quote from: Palloy
Old age is a challenge itself, definitely be young and fit when you start off.

So, how does the young and fit person who moves to your neighborhood make enough money to afford to rent a McHovel like yours without collecting a Pension from a western country?  Can he make enough money teaching English to poor indigenous people to afford your rent?  This assuming of course he himself speaks the local lingo well enough to teach English to begin with.

RE
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 07:22:29 AM by RE »
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Online Eddie

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2018, 05:46:21 AM »
Not a bad gig if you can work it out. All the tropical islands within easy distance of me are overpopulated and now very much part of BAU, unfortunately. I examined the prospect of moving to St. John some time back and rejected it.

I did find out some interesting things. The most interesting thing is that collapse happened there before, around 1800, when the Danes abandoned the failing slave-based sugar trade.

The environment had been devastated by deforestation already. The abandoned ex-slaves evolved an interesting gift economy that lasted more than a hundred years, until the white men came back. The population stabilized at about  a thousand people, and a subsistence way of living emerged around gardening and cattle grazing.

Probably better situation where you are. No tourists.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Online RE

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2018, 07:48:16 AM »
A few comments have dropped on the r/collapse promotional link.

https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/860qyw/what_are_we_supposed_to_do_while_we_wait_for_the/

Also there's a comment on the blog.

RE
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Offline Palloy2

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2018, 04:22:49 PM »
Quote
Redditors: collapse is twenty years away, so keep on working and partying

Not unlike some Diners.  The nasty problems are always far enough away that you don't have to worry about them now.  You can always tell your grandkids that you didn't do anything because the timing of the collapse took you by surprise.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline Palloy2

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2018, 05:34:39 PM »
Sugar cane has largely given way to oil palms now.  Fishing/frozen-fillets has surprisingly given way to ecological sustainability.  There are plenty of tourists.  If I HAD to earn a living here, I would target them with big, framed rainforest photos and polished wooden things like carved clubs and spears.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Online Eddie

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2018, 06:45:24 PM »
Clubs and spears are such an atavistic remnant of patriarchal domination. LOL.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Online RE

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2018, 07:20:10 PM »
Quote
Redditors: collapse is twenty years away, so keep on working and partying

Not unlike some Diners.  The nasty problems are always far enough away that you don't have to worry about them now.  You can always tell your grandkids that you didn't do anything because the timing of the collapse took you by surprise.

Or they could say they didn't have a retirement check coming in every month to pay the rent on a McShack in the Tropical Rainforest so they could play Robinson Crusoe while exterminating cockroaches with industrially produced poisons and saving the Pythons in the neighborhood while sneering at everyone else with the practical problem of making enough money to survive in Industrial Civilization.

RE
SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN

Offline Palloy2

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2018, 08:01:11 PM »
When there are no more industrial poisons, I will be overrun by cockroaches, unless another solution appears.  The python population will increase until they run out of prey.  I will go on living as I do - trying to live a frugal life, and you will go on living as you do - with trips by plane and car to see solar eclipses, and buying meat only to throw it away, and calling 'The Man' out to fix your heater and tow away your third car.

I know which apology will sound more moral to the grandkids.  I no longer expect you to appreciate the point, for all your claims of knowledge on what to do in our predicament.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Online RE

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2018, 08:05:43 PM »
When there are no more industrial poisons, I will be overrun by cockroaches, unless another solution appears.  The python population will increase until they run out of prey.  I will go on living as I do - trying to live a frugal life, and you will go on living as you do - with trips by plane and car to see solar eclipses, and buying meat only to throw it away, and calling 'The Man' out to fix your heater and tow away your third car.

LOL.  You called "The Man" not only to exterminate your cockroaches, but also to clear your driveway so ambulances can make it to your digs to ship your failing body to the local hospital where you can't understand WTF the doctor is saying.  Take a look in the mirror PY.  Get back to me when you can sell enough pictures and trinkets to tourists to pay even one month's rent, much less the whole year.

RE
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Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2018, 08:53:14 PM »
Quote
Redditors: collapse is twenty years away, so keep on working and partying

Not unlike some Diners.  The nasty problems are always far enough away that you don't have to worry about them now.  You can always tell your grandkids that you didn't do anything because the timing of the collapse took you by surprise.

Or they could say they didn't have a retirement check coming in every month to pay the rent on a McShack in the Tropical Rainforest so they could play Robinson Crusoe while exterminating cockroaches with industrially produced poisons and saving the Pythons in the neighborhood while sneering at everyone else with the practical problem of making enough money to survive in Industrial Civilization.

RE
Bingo... If you are younger with dependants still depending on you you must have a foot in both BAU and collapse if you want any collapse presence at all. I know many who fully gave up BAU but only a half handful who have come close to making it ;most burn out. I play a long game I make no apologies about that.  My life could stretch another 30 years. It gets a little rich sometimes being told how I should prepare for collapse by seasoned doomers whose horizon has shrunk to less than a third of that. I recognize my perceptions are shaped by my age and responsibilities but so are everyone's. There are many shades of doom.
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline Surly1

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2018, 04:00:36 AM »
Quote
Redditors: collapse is twenty years away, so keep on working and partying

Not unlike some Diners.  The nasty problems are always far enough away that you don't have to worry about them now.  You can always tell your grandkids that you didn't do anything because the timing of the collapse took you by surprise.

Sanctimony as a survival strategy. Interesting.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline azozeo

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2018, 05:24:07 AM »
With all the lag time, book mentor-ship with Cody Lundin !  :icon_sunny:

http://www.codylundin.com/

I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Online Eddie

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2018, 05:41:20 AM »
Not unlike some Diners.  The nasty problems are always far enough away that you don't have to worry about them now.  You can always tell your grandkids that you didn't do anything because the timing of the collapse took you by surprise.

If I should ever have any grandchildren, which is uncertain, I'll tell them I bought some land so they might have a place to grow food. I'll tell them I built out solar PV so they could have lights to read by. I'll tell them I spent countless hours trying to figure out the best strategies to help their parents cope with what I viewed as certain hardship. I'll tell them I stockpiled hundreds of pounds of food in long term storage so that if JIT delivery seized up, that they could eat. I'll tell them I thought about what was coming and tried to prepare.

And I'll regale them with amusing stories about how I used to argue with self-righteous old farts on something called "the internet".

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline azozeo

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Re: What are we supposed to do while we wait for the collapse to happen ?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2018, 05:53:49 AM »
Not unlike some Diners.  The nasty problems are always far enough away that you don't have to worry about them now.  You can always tell your grandkids that you didn't do anything because the timing of the collapse took you by surprise.

If I should ever have any grandchildren, which is uncertain, I'll tell them I bought some land so they might have a place to grow food. I'll tell them I built out solar PV so they could have lights to read by. I'll tell them I spent countless hours trying to figure out the best strategies to help their parents cope with what I viewed as certain hardship. I'll tell them I stockpiled hundreds of pounds of food in long term storage so that if JIT delivery seized up, that they could eat. I'll tell them I thought about what was coming and tried to prepare.

And I'll regale them with amusing stories about how I used to argue with self-righteous old farts on something called "the internet".



Old farts RULE ! for a reason....
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

 

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