AuthorTopic: The Iran thread  (Read 1467 times)

Offline Palloy2

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The Iran thread
« on: April 30, 2018, 05:56:58 PM »
Having got permission from Pompeo or after being told by him to step up the Iran War campaign, Netanyahu suddenly finds a trove of Iranian documents that had been carefully hidden, but not encrypted, that "prove" Iran had a nuclear weapons program.  Only they haven't been put online for us all to look at, but they will be shared with friendly intelligence agencies.  Hmmm, yawn.  Quite why this means the Iran Deal is invalid isn't clear, since it was all based on that belief even though Iran and NIEs denied it.

WW3 is going to have to solve the Korean nuke crisis, the Iranian nuke crisis, the South China Sea crisis, the Chinese trade war crisis, and the Putin Did It crisis, without leaving the USA a smouldering wreck of a country.

https://www.rt.com/news/425534-netanyahu-israel-iran-deal/
Netanyahu shows slides, shelves of docs claiming Iran has nuclear weapons program
30 Apr, 2018

Iran lied about its nuclear program, making the 2015 deal invalid, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a televised address from Tel Aviv, using big-screen presentation slides and video.

Netanyahu showed the public a massive bookcase filled with folders, claiming this represents the number of documents that Israel has on Iran's program. He went on through his presentation on human-sized long screens, showing slides and pictures of what he claimed was evidence of Tehran violating the agreement with global powers.

Though Iran claimed it never had a nuclear weapons program, “100,000 secret files prove it did,” Netanyahu said. After the 2015 nuclear deal, Iran “continued to preserve and expand its nuclear weapons knowledge” for future use.

"After signing the nuclear deal in 2015, Iran intensified its efforts to hide its secret files," he said. "In 2017 Iran moved its nuclear weapons files to a highly secret location in Tehran."

According to the PM, Tehran had preserved and expanded its military nuclear know-how in a secret atomic archive after the 2015 deal was signed. He said that “half a ton” of documents from the archives were obtained by Israel in “a great intelligence achievement.” Netanyahu claimed that the files contain incriminating evidence that Iran has been working to develop a nuclear bomb as part of a program called “Project Amad.”

Netanyahu has spoken to Russian President Vladimir Putin about the intelligence discoveries, and intends to send experts to France and Germany in the coming days to share the findings, the PM’s office said in a statement.

Israel has long opposed the 2015 agreement, which saw international sanctions on its main geopolitical rival lifted in exchange for Iran curbing it controversial nuclear program.

Iranian media have dismissed Netanyahu’s presentation, with the news agency Fars calling it “a propaganda show” and the state news agency IRNA describing the Israeli PM as “famous for ridiculous displays.”

Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif called Netanyahu’s presentation a “coordinated timing of alleged intelligence revelations by the boy who cries wolf” just before May 12, when US President Donald Trump is expected to pull out of the nuclear deal. Zarif said Netanyahu was undeterred by the “cartoon fiasco” at the UN General Assembly, referring to the 2012 presentation that used a cartoon bomb graphic.

After his meeting with US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Sunday, Netanyahu said that “the attempt of Iran to acquire nuclear weapons” remains “the greatest threat” to Israel, the US, and the whole world.

Trump has slammed the Iran nuclear deal as “the worst deal ever” and threatened to pull the US out of the agreement. Trump’s threat will be carried out if he doesn’t renew a waiver on sanctions against Iran until May 12.

The leaders of the UK, France, and Germany vowed to defend the Iran nuclear deal in a joint statement on Sunday, calling it “the best way” to keep Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline RE

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2018, 06:32:55 PM »
WW3 is going to have to solve the Korean nuke crisis, the Iranian nuke crisis, the South China Sea crisis, the Chinese trade war crisis, and the Putin Did It crisis, without leaving the USA a smouldering wreck of a country.

If/When WWIII takes off, all countries will be smoldering wrecks, it won't just be an FSoA problem.

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Offline Palloy2

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2018, 09:32:23 PM »
I really don't think my country will be a smoldering wreck, just I won't have anyone to talk to.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline RE

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2018, 09:40:29 PM »
I really don't think my country will be a smoldering wreck, just I won't have anyone to talk to.

Even the Southern Hemisphere gets nailed with the fallout eventually.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/l_o8vX8lGss" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/l_o8vX8lGss</a>

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Offline Mercury

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2018, 01:07:59 AM »
WW3 is going to have to solve the Korean nuke crisis, the Iranian nuke crisis, the South China Sea crisis, the Chinese trade war crisis, and the Putin Did It crisis, without leaving the USA a smouldering wreck of a country.

If/When WWIII takes off, all countries will be smoldering wrecks, it won't just be an FSoA problem.

RE
Typical American thinking. Russia wouldn't even have to use nukes to lay waste the continental United States. Its conventional weapons are more than adequate for the job.
Do you know what 'Nemesis' means?

Offline RE

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2018, 03:57:28 AM »
WW3 is going to have to solve the Korean nuke crisis, the Iranian nuke crisis, the South China Sea crisis, the Chinese trade war crisis, and the Putin Did It crisis, without leaving the USA a smouldering wreck of a country.

If/When WWIII takes off, all countries will be smoldering wrecks, it won't just be an FSoA problem.

RE
Typical American thinking. Russia wouldn't even have to use nukes to lay waste the continental United States. Its conventional weapons are more than adequate for the job.

In which case ther FSoA would nuke the Ruskies, and then the Ruskies would nuke the FSoA.  Same consequences.

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Offline Mercury

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2018, 10:30:00 AM »
WW3 is going to have to solve the Korean nuke crisis, the Iranian nuke crisis, the South China Sea crisis, the Chinese trade war crisis, and the Putin Did It crisis, without leaving the USA a smouldering wreck of a country.

If/When WWIII takes off, all countries will be smoldering wrecks, it won't just be an FSoA problem.

RE
Typical American thinking. Russia wouldn't even have to use nukes to lay waste the continental United States. Its conventional weapons are more than adequate for the job.

In which case ther FSoA would nuke the Ruskies, and then the Ruskies would nuke the FSoA.  Same consequences.

RE
Perhaps, if the U.S. has the stomach for an all-out nuclear war. I don't believe the American public would. Especially if they saw U.S. cities being hit by ordinary cruise missiles and the bodies started piling up.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 10:32:07 AM by Mercury »
Do you know what 'Nemesis' means?

Offline RE

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2018, 10:59:45 AM »
WW3 is going to have to solve the Korean nuke crisis, the Iranian nuke crisis, the South China Sea crisis, the Chinese trade war crisis, and the Putin Did It crisis, without leaving the USA a smouldering wreck of a country.

If/When WWIII takes off, all countries will be smoldering wrecks, it won't just be an FSoA problem.

RE
Typical American thinking. Russia wouldn't even have to use nukes to lay waste the continental United States. Its conventional weapons are more than adequate for the job.

In which case ther FSoA would nuke the Ruskies, and then the Ruskies would nuke the FSoA.  Same consequences.

RE
Perhaps, if the U.S. has the stomach for an all-out nuclear war. I don't believe the American public would. Especially if they saw U.S. cities being hit by ordinary cruise missiles and the bodies started piling up.

The Amerikan public has no say in the matter.

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Offline Mercury

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2018, 12:30:37 PM »
WW3 is going to have to solve the Korean nuke crisis, the Iranian nuke crisis, the South China Sea crisis, the Chinese trade war crisis, and the Putin Did It crisis, without leaving the USA a smouldering wreck of a country.

If/When WWIII takes off, all countries will be smoldering wrecks, it won't just be an FSoA problem.

RE
Typical American thinking. Russia wouldn't even have to use nukes to lay waste the continental United States. Its conventional weapons are more than adequate for the job.

In which case ther FSoA would nuke the Ruskies, and then the Ruskies would nuke the FSoA.  Same consequences.

RE
Perhaps, if the U.S. has the stomach for an all-out nuclear war. I don't believe the American public would. Especially if they saw U.S. cities being hit by ordinary cruise missiles and the bodies started piling up.

The Amerikan public has no say in the matter.

RE
We'll see, if and when the bombs come home to roost.
Do you know what 'Nemesis' means?

Offline Palloy2

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2018, 03:37:31 PM »
Quote
RE: Even the Southern Hemisphere gets nailed with the fallout eventually.

Probably no worse than the area around Chernobyl, where the wildlife is making a good comeback and the old-timers who didn't leave are OK. No babies with two heads, above the usual levels anyway.  Bio-concentration is the difficult thing to avoid, but since there won't be any way to measure it or calculate the risks to health from it, or any way to avoid it, it will be much like now.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline RE

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2018, 04:00:15 PM »
Quote
RE: Even the Southern Hemisphere gets nailed with the fallout eventually.

Probably no worse than the area around Chernobyl, where the wildlife is making a good comeback and the old-timers who didn't leave are OK. No babies with two heads, above the usual levels anyway.  Bio-concentration is the difficult thing to avoid, but since there won't be any way to measure it or calculate the risks to health from it, or any way to avoid it, it will be much like now.

Exactly how bad a full on Global Thermonuclear War will further corrupt the environment is an open question.  It is true that neither around Chernobyl or Fukushima is it completely uninhabitable, either for animals or Homo Saps.  Not the healthiest places to live of course, but plenty of neighborhoods are polluted with industrial chemicals there are just as bad already.

I definitely would expect that the major Big Shities in all the main countries would be rendered quite unlivable.  Then the destruction of JIT delvery systems would make many other smaller places unlivable as well.  Really rural places with good natural resources like Alaska have the best survival potential overall, although it all depends how the military chessboard ends up playing out.

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Offline Palloy2

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2018, 06:41:49 AM »
This is insane.  War is coming.

https://www.rt.com/usa/425625-judge-iran-pay-911-victims/
US judge orders Iran to pay billions to families of 9/11 victims
2 May, 2018

Tehran has been ordered by a US court to pay more than $6 billion to victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, despite the fact that most of the plane hijackers were Saudi nationals, and no direct link was ever found to Iran.

On Tuesday, a federal judge in New York found Iran, the country’s central bank, and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps liable for the deaths of more than 1,000 people in the September 11 attacks. As a consequence, District Judge George Daniels ordered Iran and its entities to pay over $6 billion in compensation to the victims’ families.

The default judgment seeks compensation of $12.5 million per spouse, $8.5 million per parent, $8.5 million per child, and $4.25 million per sibling. The US could potentially retrieve the sum from billions of dollars in Iranian assets that were frozen in the US and Europe over the years. This is unlikely, however, as the ruling is seen as symbolic and unenforceable.

It is not the first time that Daniels has issued default judgments against Iran. In 2011 and 2016, the New York judge ordered the Islamic Republic to pay billions of dollars to victims of the attacks, which killed nearly 3,000 people.

Tehran has yet to react to the latest ruling, but has previously dismissed such accusations as ridiculous, given the fact that none of the perpetrators were Iranian citizens, and no investigation ever found direct links to Iran.

“A record low for the reach of petrodollars: CIA & FDD fake news w/ selective AlQaeda docs re: Iran can't whitewash role of US allies in 9/11,” Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif wrote on Twitter last year.

Some 15 of the 9/11 perpetrators were citizens of Saudi Arabia, while two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Egypt, and one was from Lebanon. However, the US lawsuit, originally filed in 2004, still claimed that Tehran somehow supported the hijackers and provided them with training and financial assistance.

Tuesday's judgment is not linked to similar cases filed by the victims against Saudi Arabia, which claim that Riyadh provided direct support to the hijackers. Back in March, Judge Daniels rejected Saudi Arabia's request to dismiss the lawsuits. Both Saudi and Iranian cases, however, are based on the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act (Jasta), which was passed in 2016 and allows families of the victims to take foreign governments to court.
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Online Surly1

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2018, 08:46:00 AM »
This is insane.  War is coming.

https://www.rt.com/usa/425625-judge-iran-pay-911-victims/
US judge orders Iran to pay billions to families of 9/11 victims
2 May, 2018

It may well be, but not for this reason.

Quote
District Judge George Daniels ordered Iran and its entities to pay over $6 billion in compensation to the victims’ families.

The default judgment seeks compensation of $12.5 million per spouse, $8.5 million per parent, $8.5 million per child, and $4.25 million per sibling. The US could potentially retrieve the sum from billions of dollars in Iranian assets that were frozen in the US and Europe over the years. This is unlikely, however, as the ruling is seen as symbolic and unenforceable.

If war comes, it is because the certifiably insane John Bolton released a memo saying that Iran HAS nuclear weapons stockpiles, which had to be walked back to "HAD." Bolton is a global thermonuclear war waiting to happen, and is eager to do the bidding of Netanyahoo's nuclear-armed Likud Party.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2018, 10:34:32 AM »
This is insane.  War is coming.

War is already here.  It's more correct to say Wau us escalating.

However, this move is a joke.  Nobody expects the Iranians will pay damages for 9-11.

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Offline Palloy2

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Re: The Iran thread
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2018, 08:22:09 PM »
Will the US take Israel's word for it that Iran has a "clandestine nuclear weapons program" over the agreed umpire, the IAEA ?  Israel's evidence was all old stuff that everyone knew when the deal was agreed.  US foreign policy is all over the place, and this threatens the Korea deal (which stands no chance anyway).

https://www.rt.com/news/426090-iran-deal-stays-us-withdrawal/
Iran may stay in nuclear deal after US withdrawal if it's guaranteed by remaining parties
 8 May, 2018

The Iranian president has hinted his country could continue to comply with the 2015 nuclear deal even if US President Donald Trump pulls out of it. It would take guarantees of compliance from the remaining signatories.

President Hassan Rouhani indicated on Monday that the disputed nuclear deal can still survive beyond a potential US withdrawal if the UK, France, Russia, China and Germany make up for Washington's exit.

"We have our own plan. Either what we demand from the JCPOA is fulfilled by the non-American [parties, and in that case] the US withdrawal will be the removal of a trouble, or we [will resort to] our legal and rational option… if what we expect is not fully accomplished," he explained, at a meeting in Iran's Mashhad, as cited by Tasnim News Agency.

Rouhani said it would be a "strategic mistake" on the US part to scrap the deal.

It was the first time Iran's leader outlined the conditions under which the deal could stay alive after a Trump withdrawal. Previous statements by Tehran officials all suggested that such a move would automatically mean the end of the accord.

Earlier the Iranian foreign minister's spokesman Bahram Qassemi said that leaving the deal "will be painful for the US and will end in remorse."

This step would deprive the US of all remaining credibility and "will result in further lack of the world's confidence in them," Qassemi said, as cited by IRNA.

Trump is to announce his decision with regards to the nuclear deal at 2pm local time [18:00 GMT] on Tuesday. Previously, he set a deadline of May 12 to either recertify the deal or reimpose the sanctions on Iran that had been lifted as part of the bargain, in return for Iran phasing out its nuclear program

Washington has been urging its European allies –Britain, France and Germany– to renegotiate the deal to include the Iranian missile program, which had never been a part of the initial agreement. Although Washington's allies in Europe have thrown their support behind the nuclear deal, they also seek to alleviate Washington's concerns by advocating for a new agreement to be reached with Iran that will cover its ballistic missile program and nuclear activities after 2025, when the present one expires.

Meanwhile, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu last month claimed that, despite repeated confirmations of its compliance by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Iran is in violation of the deal and runs a "clandestine nuclear weapons program." The allegations, unveiled during what appeared to be a well-rehearsed presentation, were squarely dismissed by Iran.
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