AuthorTopic: Zionist Apartheid State Thread  (Read 730 times)

Offline Surly1

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Zionist Apartheid State Thread
« on: May 05, 2018, 09:40:17 AM »
With RE flat on his back, the rest of us will do well to post up some alternative news. Don't be shy.

The Israeli nation-state law sounds a lot like "Make Israel Great Again."

Israelís Racist Nation-State: Codifying Apartheid into Basic Law

Israel’s Racist Nation-State: Codifying Apartheid into Basic Law

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A nation affording rights to its favored people over others is profoundly hostile to democratic values – what apartheid is all about.

Arabs aren’t welcome or wanted in Israel except as servants to Jews. Israeli laws and customs discriminate against them – hostility toward Arabs in the Occupied Territories extreme.

“Israel’s regime of occupation is inextricably bound up in human rights violations,” B’Tselem explained, adding:

“End(ing) (it along with Israeli Arabs afforded rights no different from Jews) is the only way forward to a future in which human rights, democracy, liberty and equality are ensured to all people, both Palestinian and Israeli, living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.”

Institutional racism is longstanding Israeli policy – its 20% Arab population (Muslims and Christians) mistreated and consider a fifth column threat. [Arab Jews are not categorized as Arabs despite the fact that a significant share of Israel’s Jewish population is of Arabic descent]

In 2011, legislation was introduced to enshrine Israel’s definition of a Jewish state into Basic Law. No constitution exists. Basic Laws substitute.

Initially not acted on, it resurfaced in November 2014. Extremist cabinet ministers voted to draft a New Basic Law for consideration, saying it’s to:

“(D)efine the identity of the State of Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people, and to anchor the values of the state of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state in the spirit of the principles of the Declaration of the Independence.”

Proposed legislation declared “the right to express national self-determination within the State of Israel only to the Jewish people.”

The measure failed to become law. A revised version was drafted, calling the “State of Israel…the national home of the Jewish people.”

Its draft language declared the “right to self-determination…unique to the Jewish people,” codifying discrimination against Arab citizens.

On Tuesday, the measure passed its first reading – three readings required for enactment into law.

If adopted as Israeli Basic Law, it would enshrine the nation as “the national home of the Jewish people.”

The measure was sent to a Knesset committee for further consideration. Its controversial provisions include recognizing Israel’s Jewish character over democratic values when both are at odds.

Another section approved establishment of exclusive Jewish communities, codifying apartheid into Basic Law, making it more binding and permanent than already.

The measure declares Hebrew the official “language of the state,” Arabic permitted but subordinated, aiming to limit its public use.

Advancing the bill to second and third readings will likely occur after the next election. Kulanu, Yisrael and ultra-orthodox parties oppose the current version.

Having passed its first reading by a 64 to 50 margin in the 120-seat Knesset, eventual enactment into Basic Law is likely.

According to co-sponsor Likudnik MK Avi Dichter,

“(a)nyone who does not belong to the Jewish nation cannot define the State of Israel as his nation-state,” adding:

“The Palestinians will not be able to define Israel as their nation-state. The nation-state law is the insurance policy we are leaving for the next generation.”

The measure is hugely discriminatory, affording rights to Jews denied to Arabs.

Despite language saying everyone has the right “to preserve his or her culture, heritage, language and identity,” the right to self-determination “is (declared) unique to the Jewish people” – indicating opposition to Palestinian self-determination in any future no-peace/peace process talks.

The final version of law adopted may differ in part from its current form, its discriminatory nature virtually certain to be kept intact.

*

Stephen Lendman is a Research Associate of the CRG, Correspondent of Global Research based in Chicago.

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My newest book as editor and contributor is titled “Flashpoint in Ukraine: How the US Drive for Hegemony Risks WW III.”

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"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Eddie

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Re: Zionist Apartheid State Thread
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2018, 10:19:07 AM »
They might as well call the new embassy the Jerusalem White House. I don't know much, but I know the influence being exerted on the USA by Israel is way far gone into the surreal. Just pure craziness. Only death and destruction lies ahead for this alliance.The Christian doom prophets are going to be proved right, I guess.

Israel and the US are so joined at the hip, and it makes very little sense to me. I see what we do for them, but what exactly is it we rank and file Americans get out of it, other than being made redundant as voters, our real desires cast aside as their money pays our politicians above and below the table? More people should be asking that question.

Like all PC relationships, the dissenters are all bigots and anti-Semites. Convenient.

That situation, frankly, isn't that far afield from the state of affairs where a female physician of color working at the White house can get the President's doctor fired because she complains that he made her feel intimidated. It's a game of intrigue, and the rules are changing. Appearances have become far more important than substance. Christian Americans feel good about Israel, and I think they (the Jewish State) also do seem to have their own "special" status, a get-out-of-jail-free card related to US guilt about the Holocaust. I'm not a denier. Just a head scratcher.

There is no good outcome here. Palestine is a killing field and we happily send money to keep it happening. Genocide is now in the eye of the beholder. Depends on the ethnicity of the cleanser.

I'm glad I'm on the other side of the world (not that it will matter when nukes start going off) .

I give 3-2 odds Iran and North Korea both have EMP weapons already. And Pakistan, and India. EMP's are the Great Equalizer, able to send civilization straight back into the Dark Ages, or worse.

What a shit sandwich. And it can't and won't be unfucked either.

What rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Zionist Apartheid State Thread
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2018, 11:36:29 AM »
They might as well call the new embassy the Jerusalem White House. I don't know much, but I know the influence being exerted on the USA by Israel is way far gone into the surreal. Just pure craziness. Only death and destruction lies ahead for this alliance.The Christian doom prophets are going to be proved right, I guess.

Israel and the US are so joined at the hip, and it makes very little sense to me. I see what we do for them, but what exactly is it we rank and file Americans get out of it, other than being made redundant as voters, our real desires cast aside as their money pays our politicians above and below the table? More people should be asking that question.

Like all PC relationships, the dissenters are all bigots and anti-Semites. Convenient.

That situation, frankly, isn't that far afield from the state of affairs where a female physician of color working at the White house can get the President's doctor fired because she complains that he made her feel intimidated. It's a game of intrigue, and the rules are changing. Appearances have become far more important than substance. Christian Americans feel good about Israel, and I think they (the Jewish State) also do seem to have their own "special" status, a get-out-of-jail-free card related to US guilt about the Holocaust. I'm not a denier. Just a head scratcher.

There is no good outcome here. Palestine is a killing field and we happily send money to keep it happening. Genocide is now in the eye of the beholder. Depends on the ethnicity of the cleanser.

I'm glad I'm on the other side of the world (not that it will matter when nukes start going off) .

I give 3-2 odds Iran and North Korea both have EMP weapons already. And Pakistan, and India. EMP's are the Great Equalizer, able to send civilization straight back into the Dark Ages, or worse.

What a shit sandwich. And it can't and won't be unfucked either.

What rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Ah yes, the Zionist Nazis.  ITS A GAS!



The black smoke is from burning tires rolled in as cover so youths can get close enough to the fence to use slingshots to launch rocks at Israelis.  The ballistic curves are tear gas canisters launched by the Israelis.  The event is passive resistance by Palestinians.  Protest at the border. 

Joined at the hip yes,  So much so our rough beasts will probably let Netanyahu nuke Iran like he wants.  Yet even after that happens our beasts will be going to black tie events and nobody will have the balls to take them out.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 11:41:34 AM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline Surly1

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Re: Zionist Apartheid State Thread
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2018, 02:44:34 PM »
They might as well call the new embassy the Jerusalem White House. I don't know much, but I know the influence being exerted on the USA by Israel is way far gone into the surreal. Just pure craziness. Only death and destruction lies ahead for this alliance.The Christian doom prophets are going to be proved right, I guess.

Israel and the US are so joined at the hip, and it makes very little sense to me. I see what we do for them, but what exactly is it we rank and file Americans get out of it, other than being made redundant as voters, our real desires cast aside as their money pays our politicians above and below the table? More people should be asking that question.

Like all PC relationships, the dissenters are all bigots and anti-Semites. Convenient.

What the US gets out of it is the opportunity to defend Israel down to the last American serviceman. The Israel lobby has fully metastasized. Like you, I observe, read and scratch my head because I see now good way out of this mess.

Christian Americans feel good about Israel, and I think they (the Jewish State) also do seem to have their own "special" status, a get-out-of-jail-free card related to US guilt about the Holocaust. I'm not a denier. Just a head scratcher.

There is no good outcome here. Palestine is a killing field and we happily send money to keep it happening. Genocide is now in the eye of the beholder. Depends on the ethnicity of the cleanser.

I'm glad I'm on the other side of the world (not that it will matter when nukes start going off) .

What a shit sandwich. And it can't and won't be unfucked either.

What rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

What the US gets out of it is the opportunity to defend Israel down to the last American serviceman. The Israel lobby has fully metastasized. Like you, I observe, read and scratch my head because I see now good way out of this mess.

Anyone who bothers to think this stuff through would come to the same conclusion. Which is why no one thinks about it and changes the channel. Oooh, Kim Kardashian's ass...

The rough beast was born in November, 2016. It remains to be seen what miracles he works.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Palloy2

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Re: Zionist Apartheid State Thread
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2018, 06:00:24 PM »
Quote
Eddie: I give 3-2 odds Iran and North Korea both have EMP weapons already.

For North Korea that is true, because they have stated it and tested a nuclear weapon.  For Iran it is not true.  Even the National Intelligence Estimates in 2007 and 2011 admitted as much, and the "nuclear weapons program before 2004" part is probably not true.  They have nuclear power and have been refused fuel rod replacements by US and by Argentina (through US coersion), so they decided to do 3.6% enrichment to be self-sufficient.   All this is allowed under the NPT agreement.  They have IAEA inspections, and allowed extra inspections when the Additional Protocols were in force.  When they abandoned the Additional Protocols, because the US was blocking further multi-party talks, the US said they couldn't abandon the Additional Protocols, and then declared them to be in contravention.  Nobody else agrees, obviously.

I know it's a long away from home and therefore boring, but not concentrating on the facts mean drinking the koolaid, which you have, hence the above quoted US-propaganda lie, along with all the others.

All nuclear weapons produce EMPs when used above 25 kms (mid-stratosphere).  The frequency spectrum of the interference is divided into 3 according to the type of damage produced.  E1 is very fast (< 1 microsecond) and will fry electronic chips in computers and phones and cars and industrial control systems.  E2 is slower (<1 millisecond) and can be intercepted and avoided by surge protectors.  E3 is very slow (> 1 second) and affects long power lines and fences.  Solar storms can only produce E3.  Solid Faraday cages will protect your items if they are in it when it happens.  Copper mesh of very fine size (< 1mm) might also work if no cables go in or out. Non-nuclear EMP weapons are very weak by comparison and need to be highly targeted.
should work.  It is pretty silly to bother with Faraday Cages as there won't be any power or internet services afterwards
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Offline Surly1

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Just Another Day in a Collapsing Empire
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2018, 09:39:46 AM »
Decent companion piece to the Hedges article.

Just Another Day in a Collapsing Empire

Just Another Day in a Collapsing Empire

BE SURE TO PASS THESE ARTICLES TO FRIENDS AND KIN. A LOT DEPENDS ON THIS. DO YOUR PART.

 


All smiles in the Zionist family. What could possibly be wrong?

May 14th was quite a day for the empire, the shit show on full display exhibiting lots of swagger in its death throes. The people on the inside are the last to know. They don’t see it but everyone else does. The rest of the world can see the toxic death culture, they see the rationalizations for idiocy and how silly they seem. The US empire has no clothes but wears only a paper thin emotional veneer resembling a child who attempts to lie for the first time after murdering the family dog. This is the modern American mind of empire. Delusional and full of contrived pablum to excuse their wretched actions. Trump is truly the perfect man to represent this country, its true face. A huckster, a gangster, and a liar that says one thing and does the opposite. The actions and the results before us are the real values of empire and not their diseased words, which are devoid of truth.

 

On May 14th the empire’s best friend Israel continued to show its reverence for death while inhumanely shooting protestors on the Gaza strip. 58 lives lost and 2,700 injured are the current stats, horrors playing out that we’ll never be able to wrap our minds around, but tomorrow Palestinians will wake up and know a life that has more suffering than the day before. Many of the injured will look forward to death knowing the Israeli government lacks all basic compassion for fellow humans and the wounded know the path ahead will contain even more hardship. The implications of Israeli actions won’t make headlines for long in the US, and the externalities we’ll never see directly tied to this story will cause sadness and turmoil they will struggle to fight past for years – if Israel lets them live that long. We humans are more fragile than what is put onto our TV screens. Characters undergo one torturous event after another with little repercussions, but in reality our emotions break, especially when all community has been stripped out from under us, especially when people we love are killed or maimed for no good reason.


The obscene juxtaposition of the US embassy celebration in Jerusalem, with Ivanka Trump and hubby Jared Kuschner on tap to represent the US,  the occasion punctuated by the expected narcissistically mendacious speechifying as the IDF was systematically killing and wounding hundreds of unarmed protesters in the Palestinian “open-air prisons”, may have been—at least momentarily—a bit too much even for members of the US imperial establishment. Soon, there was a storm of criticism on social media, with some of the most scathing commentary coming from quarters usually regarded as “safe” to US/Israel actions, such as prominent members of the political class and even the servile media. TIME-Warner’s gossip sheet People magazine provided a good summary of the reaction with a page aptly titled, Ivanka Trump Under Fire for Celebrating at Jerusalem Embassy While Dozens Killed in Gaza. ([url=https://people.com/politics/ivanka-trump-jerusalem-embassy-killed-gaza/]https://people.com/politics/ivanka-trump-jerusalem-embassy-killed-gaza/[/url]). The page is worth looking at because it is so eerily surreal in its truth for a US mainstream publication.  This simply doesn’t happen very often or ever. The page kicks off with this para:


President Donald Trump‘s daughter and adviser Ivanka Trump was all smiles as she and husband Jared Kushnerattended the opening of the new U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem on Monday.

But as the members of the first family celebrated the controversial relocation of the U.S. embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, protests against the decision turned deadly in Gaza. The Huffington Post reported that Israeli troops shot and killed at least 58 protesters while around 2,700 others were injured, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry.

Now Trump, 36, and Kushner, 37, are being criticized on social media for celebrating the opening amid the bloodshed. Comedian Chelsea Handler and others tweeted about the chilling juxtaposition while also raising concerns over Trump and Kushner, two of the president’s most senior advisers, representing the U.S. abroad.

 

Chelsea Handler
 
@chelseahandler
 
 

I’m glad Ivanka and Jared could take time away from their busy schedules of not being qualified to represent the US to go represent the US, and celebrate moving the capital in exchange for the adelson’s donations, while 50+ Palestinians have been killed.

 

 View image on Twitter

View image on Twitter
David Beard
 
@dabeard
 
 

Smiling during a slaughter: Ivanka makes @NYDailyNews front page on Tuesday

 

The publication also added this delightful tidbit:

Former John McCain strategist Steve Schmidt voiced similar criticism, tweeting, “Kushner and Ivanka’s presence and public roles at this Jerusalem embassy opening are outlandish. They are Assistants to the President. They have no business and no rank to be speaking for the country at a geopolitical flash point. We don’t have Princes and princesses in America.”

And The New York Daily News also took aim at Trump and Kushner on its latest cover, referring to Trump as “Daddy’s little ghoul” and writing in the subhead: “55 slaughtered in Gaza, but Ivanka all smiles at Jerusalem embassy unveil.”

And this:

“@IvankaTrump smiles, as blood spills on the streets underneath her! Heartbreaking to read 52 Palestinians, including several teenagers, were dead and at least 1,700 were injured in Gaza,” tweeted Minnesota State Rep. Ilhan Omar.

“Jared and Ivanka partying it up in Jerusalem while Israeli forces massacre Palestinians in Gaza is a level of depravity you can only find in the Trump and Netanyahu administrations,” said another commenter.

 Enjoy it while it lasts. It probably won’t.

—PG


Six who died were under the age of 18. Does the US care? Nope, they’d sooner blame Palestinians for putting kids in the line of fire of Israeli soldiers than take responsibility for supporting a regime who sadistically fires openly into crowds of unarmed people. The corporate media have short memories, convenient memories. We forget how upset we were at the Syrian gas attack that may have claimed 40 lives and later the incident was filled with controversy over if Assad was actually responsible, I do not know the truth about this but I smell bullshit from somewhere, regardless of my bullshit sniffing abilities that number is less than the 58 killed at the protests on May the 14th. And there will be not a chirp, a squawk, a snort, or whinny of angst directed towards Israel for these actions by our overlords. In fact, quite the opposite.


“Now hold for the family selfie. Yay!”

The ignoble Jared Kushner said at the embassy opening that “Those provoking violence are part of the problem and not part of the solution,” referring to protestors who don’t have guns, didn’t wound one Israeli soldier, they don’t have an air force, tanks, humvees, an organized military, or any of the implements of destruction Israel does, yet Palestinians are somehow provoking violence to such an extent the bully state had to slaughter them? Ok Jared, fuck you. There is no respect for life, zero empathy, and not the smallest hint of a lingering humanity remaining in the logic of the state.

The US operates in a good ole boy league where the fellow goombahs get an automatic pass, they are made men, with made nations, they do as they please. So it would also please them on the day of May 14th to move the US embassy to Jerusalem as nothing more than a provocation to invite targets out for the racist Israeli state to gun down. The ostensible provocateurs are a battered people who are being violently edged off this planet for reasons of insanity from a bully regime and their bully death culture. The provoked are a people crying out for someone in the world to stand up to this machine. Provoked to the point they want the world to witness what those in power will do to people who are of no legitimate threat; To show how vicious and small in character those who wield power are, to show how profound their lack of wisdom. Palestinians are no more of a threat to Israel than an ant is to an elephant, yet this particular raging elephant’s sense of entitled justice is to seek out the ant population and stamp it out of existence, then boast as if they were doing a great service.

In other news occurring on the day of May 14th 2018, the supreme court of American shysterism decided to give states the power to legalize gambling. With the current predicament of the world and the myriad of issues I quite frankly get tired of speaking to…the warring, the species extinction this, the climate change that, the wealth inequal…..well you get the point, any logical mind might say that we shouldn’t take time to further line the pockets of the wealthy by allowing them to own these new con games. Also, it might seem a tad exploitative to further entice the poor to desperately gamble away their rapidly diminishing savings before addressing those much larger issues, but all dissent will go unheard because there’s money to be made boys, so instead we’ll hear people say some ridiculous drivel about how this is good for economic growth, and we’ll continue to live by the obvious lies of supply side economics.

And of all the issues in the world to address, of all the ideas in dire need of review, the US government’s highest court chooses to address sports gambling and rules in favor of empowering an industry that has been synonymous with organized crime even in areas it’s legalized. From gangster Bugsy Segal who famously had a role in creating the Las Vegas strip, to Sheldon Adelson who was said to have ties to Chinese mafia, and of course like flies attracted to shit Donald Trump comes buzzing around the casino business with plenty of allegations mafia associations, of course his most verifiable organized crime association being the US government itself.

Legalizing sports betting is an apropos move for an empire doing all it can to emulate the Biff Tannen universe that was widely referenced at the start of the Trump presidency. Sports are already a severely overemphasized part of American culture. The athletes are receiving salaries that rival that of some of the most abusive CEOs, but the US populace worships them, they make excuses for the rampant greed out of addictive impulse. Many of these dollars athletes and billionaire owners earn are subsidized from lower class taxpayers where they are forced to pay for stadiums and surrounding infrastructure owned by the billionaires, just so we can watch athletes whose top salaries are quickly approaching 40 million a year play for meaningless things that will quickly be forgotten in time.

The narrative from states and business interests looking to profiteer off gambling will put on their best act to pretend like the abusive capitalist activity of gambling is some form of freedom, and the narrative of Israeli slaughter of Palestinians is that peaceful protestors are a threat to a heavily armed military, and the narrative from corporate media will be that these are just things happening and not signs of empire collapsing amid the ever growing misery of a global population. And the narrative of the people in the empire who are lonely, sad, and separated from connection will tell themselves that democracy and capitalism will somehow purify to the point that they’ll really deliver on the goods this time around. That surely this twisted form of democracy installed by genocidal slavers will avert disaster in the coming elections. The idea is we wait in futility for events that have no chance of curbing the murderous gangsterism inset in this disposable dung heap of a society; I don’t mean to insult dung, lots of good things grow out of dung, nothing good grows out of this disease. It must be transformed at a deep level to be fertile space again, and if we are to heal the disease we cannot continue to sow the lies of false narratives.

 

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"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Palloy2

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Re: Zionist Apartheid State Thread
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2018, 07:53:54 AM »
Quote
Eddie: My view (and I'm not alone by any stretch of the imagination) is that my highest duty is to myself and my family.

I suppose when it comes down to it, this is what we disagree about the most.  You think it a "higher duty" to be selfish, and I think it is to be fair to all humans.  I know you are not alone in thinking that, it is the BAU culture and is everywhere.  You  refuse to do anything to help the Collapse of BAU along. You don't care about what I, or anybody else, thinks of you.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline Surly1

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Re: Zionist Apartheid State Thread
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2018, 08:36:26 AM »
Those that continue to be model US Citizens while calling their other countrymen sheeple, dumb, stupid and the rest, are not respected by me.

I treated you with complete respect until you chose to start fucking with me. If you fuck with me I will call you out from now until one of us drops dead or the internet goes dark.

I don't care what you think about me at all. You aren't fit to judge me, and I find your constant passive-aggressive muttering offensive.  Old age and sickness are not a license to act like a shitheel.

I reject your argument that because I am aware of collapse, that it is my duty to do something to change the world. This divide, between people who feel the way you do, and people who feel the way I do, is not uncommon among doomers. That's what destroyed McPherson's site. I hope it doesn't destroy this one.

My view (and I'm not alone by any stretch of the imagination) is that my highest duty is to myself and my family. Activism is fine for those who feel compelled to engage in it, but the likelihood of activists preventing a die-off in the next several years is exactly zero, in my opinion.

I say that, not because I'm a doomer, or because I'm pessimistic in general. I say it because there is no evidence whatsoever that activism has done, or will do anything to prevent collapse.  CO2 keeps going up. Cheap oil keeps going away, BAU keeps wasting resources. The cake is baked.

Some people become monks. Some people write pamphlets. I try to prep and shape my life in a way that will prepare me and the people I care about for a harder, lower energy future where food might be the scarcest commodity. I don't expect to succeed, necessarily, in saving myself or anybody else.

So when hardcore idealists like yourself want to tell me what I "should" do, my response is to tell them to stop shoulding shitting on me.

From firsthand with Occupy, I can tell you that one of the things that really demoralizizes activists (and activist wannabes) is people swooping an and opening a conversation with, "You know what you guys ought to do...?" But they are not available for the workgroups, or for ad hoc assignments outside of the workgroups, or for anything aside from unburdening themselves of their ill-informed opinion, usually untested by experience. Meaning that it is still new and fresh in its wrapper.

One of the things that posters here should remember is "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle," variously attributed. I can tell you that deigning to sit in judgment of another without having worn his moccasins is a form of narcissism. Not to mention drenched in the sort of anonymized "internet courage" seen on the pages of Reddit.

So let's back away from the fight. It sets a bad example for the noobs.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Eddie

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Re: Zionist Apartheid State Thread
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2018, 09:25:41 AM »
I suppose when it comes down to it, this is what we disagree about the most.  You think it a "higher duty" to be selfish, and I think it is to be fair to all humans.  I know you are not alone in thinking that, it is the BAU culture and is everywhere.  You  refuse to do anything to help the Collapse of BAU along.

And I get that loud and clear. Here's the deal. People don't all agree about how to deal with collapse. So we can disagree and still be amicable, or we can become bitter enemies.

I actually get your position, even though my response would be that it's all coming soon enough, you don't have to worry. And I'm willing to let you follow your heart and mind. I don't even mind your proselytizing to get people to try to do things to speed up collapse. I don't even mind that you think communism is the best kind of society. I never signed on to be an apologist for capitalism, either.

What I do mind is being dissed all the time. You don't have to like me. It's not that I don't care what anybody thinks of me, it's that I resent being called a rat bastard, if not in so many words.

I expect if you actually did know me, and I were your neighbor, we might get along better than we do here. Perhaps I might do something to earn your respect. I don't know.

One of the things that posters here should remember is "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle," variously attributed. I can tell you that deigning to sit in judgment of another without having worn his moccasins is a form of narcissism. Not to mention drenched in the sort of anonymized "internet courage" seen on the pages of Reddit.

So let's back away from the fight. It sets a bad example for the noobs.


I can only back up so far.

There was no fight until I was called on to defend myself against somebody repeatedly questioning my motives, my intelligence, and my humanity. I certainly will not sit tight while anyone here repeatedly suggests I'm a racist, or a sociopath, or a drooling NRA-supporting gun nut.  You can ban me, or I can leave, which I might anyway. My tolerance for bullshit is not unlimited.

Despite what Palloy says, he has been deliberately incendiary, and he knows it. I've tried to deal with him in a reasonable way and that netted me nothing. It's up to him. I think my long tenure here shows that I'm a fairly long-suffering individual who doesn't pick fights.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Surly1

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Re: Zionist Apartheid State Thread
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2018, 01:00:00 PM »
I suppose when it comes down to it, this is what we disagree about the most.  You think it a "higher duty" to be selfish

Eddie, are you addressing this to me? If so, I have clearly failed to communicate.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Eddie

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Re: Zionist Apartheid State Thread
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2018, 01:24:36 PM »
I was quoting Palloy. The 1st blue paragraph is me quoting verbatim exactly what he said to me above, and the next (not blue)paragraph is my reply to him. I thought that would be clear. Sorry.

Only the last part was aimed at you, and then just by way of explanation. I appreciate you trying to keep the peace, and I have some insight into how hard it is to moderate this site. I have no problem with your admonition, I just wanted you to know where my limits are.

I'll pull in my horns, but I won't allow Palloy or anybody else to get away with attacks on my character. My reputation in the real world matters to me.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Surly1

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Re: Zionist Apartheid State Thread
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2018, 05:04:16 PM »
I was quoting Palloy. The 1st blue paragraph is me quoting verbatim exactly what he said to me above, and the next (not blue)paragraph is my reply to him. I thought that would be clear. Sorry.

Only the last part was aimed at you, and then just by way of explanation. I appreciate you trying to keep the peace, and I have some insight into how hard it is to moderate this site. I have no problem with your admonition, I just wanted you to know where my limits are.

I'll pull in my horns, but I won't allow Palloy or anybody else to get away with attacks on my character. My reputation in the real world matters to me.

Thanks, Eddie.

Trying to encourage free exchange of ideas without going ad hom is hard to do. I just urge all of us to contribute as we will, but realize that none of us has the right to judge anyone else, for the simple reason that we are almost guaranteed to be wrong.

I'm just looking around, and seeing all the varied contributors that have shown up in addition to the usual suspects like us. GO, AG, KK, even roamer back from suoerlurkerdom. To go with noobs and relative noobs. Talking abut energy storage projects, et al. Really good stuff, and it gives me great joy to see it. Hoping we can keep it up, which we can if we resist the temptation to call names or take the easy, cheap shot.

Yeah, I know. But I can dream...

"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Zionist Apartheid State Thread
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2018, 11:05:58 PM »
I'll take that as an attempt at peace-making and reciprocate.  :icon_sunny:

When I bounce your own words (selected sentences) back at you, and in response you call me "full of shit" and other insults, I don't respond happily either and I don't think any other Diner would.  People that only know me through my writings (often in local newspapers) and then meet me face to face often comment that I am much nicer in person.  I take that as a compliment of my writing style, which is supposed to be in hard-edged newspaper style.

I have also been told I have a professorial style, giving little lectures to people on scientific subjects.  This is because I find the audience generally has a very poor grasp of scientific subjects and/or a very sloppy way of putting things when they need to be accurate.

For example, RE's energy storage system, as gravitational potential energy, is neatly expressed as:
E = m.g.h
where m is mass, h is height and g is the gravitational constant.
The units have to be converted to a consistent system, here the Metre-Kilogram-Second system giving an answer in Joules.

So lifting a tonne up a metre against earth's gravity, takes
Energy = (1,000 ◊ 0.981 ◊ 1) = 981 joules  = 981 watts for 1 second
  = 0.272 watts for 1 hour

which is not much, and explains why you need to do it on an unfeasibly BIG scale to store a useful amount of energy.

Another way to look at it is imagine a car with a full tank of gas and a gently sloping mountain higher than Everest having a road on it which just keeps going up.  How many miles would a ton or so of car climb before running out of gas? 

It won't.  It will run out of air first.  A car dropping miles will have less energy than a tank of gas.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

 

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