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Offline RE

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RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« on: May 08, 2018, 04:29:15 PM »
Prior to the Close Encounter of the Third Kind with the Grim Reaper last weekend, I began the Great Organization Project of getting my Digs totally organized and ready for SHTF Day.  As the regulars here know, I have about every Prep known to man here in the digs, but for the most part they have been stuffed in boxes since my last move 3 years ago and I don't know where half the shit is.  OK, more than half, make it like 90%.  lol.

Now, physically I am not in shape to be unloading all these boxes and trying to do this myself, but I recently employed household and driving help, and now that the initial lates cleanup is finished I am having my household assistant go through my boxes of preps to get everything organized.  I have also made several trips to Home Depot to pick up shelving systems to line the walls with and still more plastic containers in which to store the preps.  All the shelving units can easily dissassemble for a later shipment down to the Lower 48 if I decide to make the move down there at a later date.

As we empty and sort through the boxes, the preps will get organized by category, such as food, fuel, tools, electrics etc and transferred from the cardboard shipping boxes they are currently in to more plastic containers. Each new container will be labeled by type and have a manifesto attached on the outside with the contents of that container.  Shipping boxes that are still in good shape will be sliced and flattened for use later in making shipments down to the Lower 48 periodically to move some duplicate preps I have down there before making the big move, and dropped in my storage unit in MO most likely to begin with.

We have already made tremendous progress, and my Diner Office area is now quite well organized.  I am awaiting delivery of my new luxury reclining office chair to make it a super fine work space for myself as I chronicle the Collapse of Industrial Civilization in my last days Walking the Earth.

The biggest change here so far is in terms of readiness is on the Electrics end.  My Emergency Electrics station was in the Kitchen area, mighty cluttered and not very easy to transition to in Outage situations, although I did do it several times over the last 3 years.  None of those outages were very long though, longest was about 6 hours.  To do it took moving around batts and inverters, doing plug shifting and so forth, something of a pain in the ass.  What I have done is to divide the electrics station into two stations, one with my big 1000W continuous 2000W peak output Pure Sine Wave Inverter, and the other which keeps all my portable rechargeable electrics topped off all the time.  That is mainly diode lights and tool batteries and FRS Radios.

Here is the current configuration of the two electrics stations.  It is still a Work in Progress, don't be too critical. lol.

Diner Office Electrics 1
Diner Office Electrics 1
Electric station on the bottom shelf.  Click the pic for large.

Diner Electrics Portable
Diner Electrics Portable
Tool batts, diode lights & FRS radios. Click the pic for large.

Prior to this reorganization, I never tested the big inverter with the big Deep Cycle Marine batt to see how long it would last running my big All-in-One Dell desktop computer and my wireless router for how long it will last running continuously on one charge.  I am currently hooked up to this arrangement now, which only takes two quick plug changes and no moving of batts.  The big inverter has a Remote on off switch I have on my desk.  I have currently been running the main computer for 2.5 hours and there is no sign whatsoever that the batt is anywhere near depleted.  This is a fairly old batt as well, at least 5 years old now although very rarely used during that period and I have kept it charged up most of the time and not let it fully discharge.  However, if it doesn't hold up well here I may replace it, and/or I will buy a new one for the batt bank.  I am hoping for at least a full 24 hours hours of continuous use of this batt with no shut down of the computer or router.  In a real outage situation, I would likely sign on for a couple of hours 2 or 3 times a day to do Diner tasks, then shut down so maybe 6 hours a day usage.

To recharge the batt in the event of a really LONG outage of say a week or so, I would set up my Yamaha Genny on the porch and run an extension cord in to the digs to power up my AC/DC chargers to top off the batts, then shut that down when everything is topped off.  My next test will be to see how long it takes the genny to top off the big ass batt when it is around 80% depleted.  I am hoping for a range of 4-6 hours for that.  Not including the gas in the tanks of my vehicles which I could siphon, I keep on hand enough gas to run the genny for a good 100 hours, it's a pretty efficient small Yamaha, "best in class" according to the reviews, very lightweight and quiet.

As designed, the system would really be stressed to run the fridge, although possible I think if I run the genny a lot more.  I don't see that as being necessary though for the most part in my situation.  I don't forsee really long power outages up here except perhaps with an Earthquake of major proportions or Mt. Redoubt going ballistic.  In either case, I will load up SaVANnah and GTFO of Dodge as fast as I can with my most essential preps, take a vacation in the Yukon Territory and return when they have the place reasonably wired up again.

Long term survival?  No.  However, once the full job is complete, I should be good for up to about 6 months with little to no services.  I can get water from the creek next to the complex and use that for flushing the toilet.  I can distill that water also for drinking as long as I have electric power, which I can generate. I would actually trust this water to drink with just a water purification tablet as well, and I have a large supply of those also. Food, I have gobs of, I don't need to shop for food for a good 2 years, lol.  I have Solar Panels I can deploy for batt charging, but the way my digs are situated no real good spot to deploy them so I would only get enough power I think to keep some diode lights charged and my smart phone.

Still a long way to go here in terms of organization, many boxes still need to be worked through and shelving units assembled.  My household help also just got a job at IHOP, so she isn't available as much.  Much better now already though.

RE
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Offline Eddie

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2018, 05:46:22 PM »
Get a fuckin' Berkey. Water purification tablets, meh. Filtration is so much better, and the cost is not that much.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline David B.

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2018, 05:51:38 PM »
I vote for a katadyn or a mSr ceramic filter but filter for sure. I like the electrics. Do you have a kill a watt to measure fridge consumption over 24 hours and running watts both Good to know. If the genny can run the chargers and the fridge charge up both at the same time. Cold is just as good a battery as lead. Congrats on the clean up.
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline RE

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2018, 05:58:33 PM »
Get a fuckin' Berkey. Water purification tablets, meh. Filtration is so much better, and the cost is not that much.

The purification tablets are just an emergency measure.  I got a distillation apparatus.  Takes out more impurities than any filtration system.

Besides that, I actually trust this stream to drink straight up.  It's coming straight down from the glacier and passing through no industrial areas and very little farmland.  If I have to, I will drink it straight up after boiling over a campfire.  It runs year round, though in winter you have to cut through the top layer of ice.

RE
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 06:37:16 PM by RE »
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Offline RE

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2018, 06:17:10 PM »
I vote for a katadyn or a mSr ceramic filter but filter for sure. I like the electrics. Do you have a kill a watt to measure fridge consumption over 24 hours and running watts both Good to know. If the genny can run the chargers and the fridge charge up both at the same time. Cold is just as good a battery as lead. Congrats on the clean up.

I have nothing to measure total fridge consumption other than actually testing the system on it and see how long it lasts.  Currently running just the big computer and the router and two diode lights (actually not on the system, they have their own batts) I am nearing 5 hours with no signs yet of depletion.

After I finish this test, I will test with the fridge hooked up, though that is a pain because I have to get behind the fridge to unplug it and not sure how I can do that.  Not strong enough to pull it out by myself.  I'm going to need someone to pull the fridge for me and set the plug up next to it so I can make the switch easily.

I am guessing with the fridge hooked up, I will get 12 hours off the deep cycle.  Depends of course how often I open it.  Bigger question for me is how long and how much fuel the Yamaha will use to fully charge the deep cycle.  Any guesses there?  It's 120 AH (new) and the Yamaha puts out 2000W and uses about a tankfull every 10 hours or so depending on load.

RE
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 06:30:30 PM by RE »
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Offline Eddie

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2018, 06:35:42 PM »
I am guessing with the fridge hooked up, I will get 12 hours off the deep cycle.

Of actually running the fridge? Or keeping your food from spoiling? Your fridge probably pulls 2 amps when the compressor's on.

A full-sized refrigerator draws about 2 Amps at 120 Volts AC. By multiplying 2 Amps x 120 Volts, you find out the refrigerator
uses 240 Watts. The batteries will need to deliver 20 Amps to run the refrigerator (240 Watts/12 Volts = 20 Amps). Typically,
refrigerators operate about 1/3 of the time (1/3 "duty cycle"), or 8 hours a day. Therefore, the A.H. drain will be 160 A.H.
(8 hours x 20 Amps = 160 A.H.).


https://www.batteryweb.com/pdf/inverter_battery_sizing_faq.pdf

Damn I'll miss the internet when it's gone.

That calculation does not take into account inverter inefficiency.Your modified sine wave inverters will eventually probably kill your fridge if you use it a lot, but maybe for emergencies it might not stress it that bad. The motor might draw more current on MSW.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 06:44:20 PM by Eddie »
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline David B.

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2018, 06:54:27 PM »
Your fridge will use 700 -1.2 kWHr per 24 hours depending on age and size. Run watts will be 200-300 watts. Your battery has 1.4 kWHr total but 70 percent of that is really the most you should pull from it if you want to do it more than 20 times. So say 850 watts total. Now more fun best rate of discharge is 10 percent of total capacity same for charge rate. Your best performance on the battery will be 140 watts. Say your desktop computer router and a few lights. 7 hours at 140 watts will work but you are running it down.
For charging 12 amps at 12 volts for about 7 hours would be best for the battery. Maybe a bit faster the first few hours. Is your genny an inverter type? They throttle down well and can sip fuel when they run small loads and Rev up for high loads. For your situation I would suggest a 6 hour charge session by generaton while running the fridge off it at the same time.
Cheers,  David 
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline Eddie

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2018, 06:55:02 PM »
I vote for a katadyn or a mSr ceramic filter but filter for sure. I like the electrics. Do you have a kill a watt to measure fridge consumption over 24 hours and running watts both Good to know. If the genny can run the chargers and the fridge charge up both at the same time. Cold is just as good a battery as lead. Congrats on the clean up.

Do you use a gravity fed reservoir? Link? I like the Berkey because the water filters by gravity and you can get one that holds a lot. The charcoal filters are expensive throwaways. I would probably devise my own charcoal filter if the expensive store bought ones weren't available. That'd be an interesting project.

Monolithic domes still lists their ceramic, which is a DIY set-up. They only sell the actual filter. You build the tanks. Cheap prep.




https://www.monolithicmarketplace.com/collections/frontpage/products/just-water-ceramic-drip-filter

« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 06:57:28 PM by Eddie »
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2018, 06:55:57 PM »
I am guessing with the fridge hooked up, I will get 12 hours off the deep cycle.

Of actually running the fridge? Or keeping your food from spoiling? Your fridge probably pulls 2 amps when the compressor's on.

A full-sized refrigerator draws about 2 Amps at 120 Volts AC. By multiplying 2 Amps x 120 Volts, you find out the refrigerator
uses 240 Watts. The batteries will need to deliver 20 Amps to run the refrigerator (240 Watts/12 Volts = 20 Amps). Typically,
refrigerators operate about 1/3 of the time (1/3 "duty cycle"), or 8 hours a day. Therefore, the A.H. drain will be 160 A.H.
(8 hours x 20 Amps = 160 A.H.).


https://www.batteryweb.com/pdf/inverter_battery_sizing_faq.pdf

Damn I'll miss the internet when it's gone.

That calculation does not take into account inverter inefficiency.Your modified sine wave inverters will eventually probably kill your fridge if you use it a lot, but maybe for emergencies it might not stress it that bad. The motor might draw more current on MSW.

I'm not using a modified sine wave inverter.  Read for comprehension.  I am using my big ass PURE SINE WAVE inverter.

The compressor on the fridge does not run continuously, in fact it only flips on for a few minutes each hour.  This is ALASKA, not Texas, and my digs never go much above 62F.  My Freezer is packed solid, and it's all frozen solid too.  Even without power the freezer would take 2 days to thaw at least.

I'll let you know once I run the test how long it goes.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2018, 07:02:14 PM »
Sorry. Missed that. What kind of PSW inverter did you go with?
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2018, 07:05:07 PM »
Your fridge will use 700 -1.2 kWHr per 24 hours depending on age and size. Run watts will be 200-300 watts. Your battery has 1.4 kWHr total but 70 percent of that is really the most you should pull from it if you want to do it more than 20 times. So say 850 watts total. Now more fun best rate of discharge is 10 percent of total capacity same for charge rate. Your best performance on the battery will be 140 watts. Say your desktop computer router and a few lights. 7 hours at 140 watts will work but you are running it down.
For charging 12 amps at 12 volts for about 7 hours would be best for the battery. Maybe a bit faster the first few hours. Is your genny an inverter type? They throttle down well and can sip fuel when they run small loads and Rev up for high loads. For your situation I would suggest a 6 hour charge session by generaton while running the fridge off it at the same time.
Cheers,  David

Genny is inverter type yes.  This is the model:


General plan would be to bring the fridge down in temp whenever I run the genny to charge the batts to get maximum efficiency, and run the fridge as little as possible off just the batts.  My hope would be to only have to run the genny about once every 3 days or so for around 7-10 hours.

RE
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Offline RE

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2018, 07:13:30 PM »
Sorry. Missed that. What kind of PSW inverter did you go with?

No idea who manufactures it, but it got shipped in from China.  ;D  CHEAP!

Here's the photo.  Guess the price.  Closest without going over wins a Kewpie Doll.

Batt Inverter
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Offline David B.

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2018, 07:18:30 PM »
I vote for a katadyn or a mSr ceramic filter but filter for sure. I like the electrics. Do you have a kill a watt to measure fridge consumption over 24 hours and running watts both Good to know. If the genny can run the chargers and the fridge charge up both at the same time. Cold is just as good a battery as lead. Congrats on the clean up.

Do you use a gravity fed reservoir? Link? I like the Berkey because the water filters by gravity and you can get one that holds a lot. The charcoal filters are expensive throwaways. I would probably devise my own charcoal filter if the expensive store bought ones weren't available. That'd be an interesting project.

Monolithic domes still lists their ceramic, which is a DIY set-up. They only sell the actual filter. You build the tanks. Cheap prep.




https://www.monolithicmarketplace.com/collections/frontpage/products/just-water-ceramic-drip-filter
For the house I used to use pump driven units same idea as the Berkey but faster 5 micron as it comes into the house then under sink ceramic then charcoal. like these ones in a rain fresh filter holder:  http://a.co/bjBZEv2   
 That was before we upgraded the house. Now I'm doing 5 micron as it comes in then charcoal then UV. I have a shallow well in a swamp so filtering is important especially in the spring and fall

For camping I use this one or at least its older cousin...
Link: http://a.co/c0Cn2JR
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline David B.

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2018, 07:28:44 PM »
Your fridge will use 700 -1.2 kWHr per 24 hours depending on age and size. Run watts will be 200-300 watts. Your battery has 1.4 kWHr total but 70 percent of that is really the most you should pull from it if you want to do it more than 20 times. So say 850 watts total. Now more fun best rate of discharge is 10 percent of total capacity same for charge rate. Your best performance on the battery will be 140 watts. Say your desktop computer router and a few lights. 7 hours at 140 watts will work but you are running it down.
For charging 12 amps at 12 volts for about 7 hours would be best for the battery. Maybe a bit faster the first few hours. Is your genny an inverter type? They throttle down well and can sip fuel when they run small loads and Rev up for high loads. For your situation I would suggest a 6 hour charge session by generaton while running the fridge off it at the same time.
Cheers,  David


Genny is inverter type yes.  This is the model:


General plan would be to bring the fridge down in temp whenever I run the genny to charge the batts to get maximum efficiency, and run the fridge as little as possible off just the batts.  My hope would be to only have to run the genny about once every 3 days or so for around 7-10 hours.

RE
good plan. I think you are doing it but charge the battery off of a battery charger not the dc feeds on the generator. The generator will run at its absolute best efficiency between 25 and 50 percent of its running watts. So a loaded down battery charger and a fridge would be just about perfect. Of course do as much computer duties and electrical stuff at the same time as the genny runs. Back when we ran a tiny system I would set the freezer and fridge to max cold when the genny was on and lower it to warmest setting when on batteries...
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 07:30:45 PM by David B. »
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2018, 08:47:40 PM »
No idea who manufactures it, but it got shipped in from China.  ;D  CHEAP!

Here's the photo.  Guess the price.  Closest without going over wins a Kewpie Doll.

Batt Inverter
Batt Inverter

RE
$113.37
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....