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Offline RE

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2018, 09:02:24 PM »
No idea who manufactures it, but it got shipped in from China.  ;D  CHEAP!

Here's the photo.  Guess the price.  Closest without going over wins a Kewpie Doll.

Batt Inverter
Batt Inverter

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$113.37

Good guess.  ;D

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Offline RE

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2018, 05:43:53 PM »
I am happy to report that the batt-inverter setup worked for 24 straight hours online running both my big Dell All-in-One computer and wireless router, with no sign of giving out after 24 either.  I was a bit surprised, since this batt is quite old (over 5 years, comes from my early years prepping up.  I think it is about 8 years old).  So I don't need to replace it or really even augment it with another one.  I quit the test at the full 24.  No need to go further on this test.

In my situation, in my neighborhood, I cannot imagine a situation I would be both alive and the grid down more than a week at a stretch with me still here..  On the Natural Disaster end, we don't get Hurricanes or Tornadoes here.  We do get high winds quite regularly though.  When the Winds of November Come Early, we can run a straight week with Haboobs (straight line winds) that will maintain speeds of upwards of 80MPH with gusts to 100, but the wiring here is built to take this shit.  It only rarely gives an outage lasting more than a few hours.  The winds come whistling down off the mountains of the Brooks Range, which surrounds the Mat-Su Valley on 3 sides.  The fourth side is Prince William Sound, our Moat.  The location is a Natural Fortress.

Mountains.  Really BIG Mountains.  The Great Wall that God Built to Protect the Independent Souls of the World.


The wiring is simple and straightforward, the main high voltage transmission cables run along two corridors that parallel the Glenn & Parks Highways and the Alaska Railroad.  Here in the Valley, we have our own power generation plants, the newest one only a couple of years old and very well designed.  It uses multiple generators for redundancy and these all work on multiple fuel types.  Our fuel is mostly NG that is locally sourced, we don't depend on imports.

Since we are on the Ring of Fire, Earthquakes and Volcanic Eruptions also present the possibility for a longer outage if big enough, but that would have to be pretty big, 8 or more minimum.  I have been here for 7 Quakes, and it doesn't touch the grid.  A full on eruption and ashfall from Mt. Redoubt could do a number on the grid, but as I said if I get newz of that going off I am jumping in SaVANnah and heading for a vacation in the Yukon Territory for a few weeks until they get the mess cleaned up.

The final thing that could bring down the grid for an extended period would be a full on Global Thermonuclear War with the Ruskies or Chinese.  If they decide to Nuke JR Richardson Airbase and Elmendorf along with the Alaska Pipeline, this whole neighborhood will essentially be radioactive toast.  I don't expect to live through that, so it's not a worry for me that I prep for.

So, in general I really only need electric backup to last around a week, although I already can go a good deal longer than that.  24 straight hours running the big computer and wireles router really translates to more like 6 days of operation without even flipping on the genny for a recharge.  I wouldn't keep everything running 24 hours straight, maybe 4-6 a day if the Diner is still up and running and I want to catch up on the latest in Doom Newz.

So, I need a test with more load on the system, aka refrigeration since that is the only other thing I use any significant amount of electricity for.  As I mentioned previously, right now getting to the outlet to make the switch for the main fridge is not set up for a Cripple to handle, so that is out for now.  However, I have devised an alternate test utilizing my Portable Ice Maker and Water Distiller.

What I will do on the next big test is run the ice maker until I fill up a full cooler of Ice, which I can then use to keep my refrigerated goods cold once the fridge itself warms up above freezing temp.  A full cooler of ice should last 2-3 days.  I will also see how much purified water I produce over a 24 hour period, assuming my batt doesn't quit during the time period.  In reality, I would save ice making and water distillation for the times I am running the Yamaha genny to recharge the batts, so the batt system really only has to run the computer, communications and diode lights.  This load is very light.

I did another test of my smaller systems, utilizing two of my Modified Sine Wave Inverters, a 400 Watt model and a 120W model.  Batts for these tests come from my Ewz, which has 3 12V 10AH batts wired in series.  The two batts used for this experiment are "retired" batts, they no longer are real good for running the Ewz, they just don't hold enough juice anymore.  But they still do hold a decent amount that is good for stuff like recharging your smart phone, etc.  So I haven't brought them over to Batts & Bulbs for recycling, I keep them around on the electrics shelf and keep them charged up too.

In this test, I used a hanging worklight which is quite sufficient to light up my whole main room by itself.  Configuration of my digs has the living room and kitchen together, with a bedroom I do not use other than to store preps.  With one of these batts, it runs around 2 hours with this type of light, a flourescent.  I could get more time out of a diode light of similar luminosity.  It will also run a full size laptop by itself, even the really small inverter wil do that and that is very efficient usage!  This keeps load off the main batt setup and is also more portable and provides "backup for backup".

Electrics Test2
Electrics Test2

Electrics Test3
Electrics Test3

Not too worried about Lights Out being a problem here anytime too soon.

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Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2018, 06:20:50 PM »
Nice!
Everybody should have a killawatt meter... Fairly cheap as well and so much better than guess work if you are going ahead with a more power hungry test.
http://a.co/6ktfZ5j

I use this one for work a lot its a power bar and surge protector with more functions but it is pricey
http://a.co/5hNsCpE

what was the battery voltage at the end of the test? it would be good to jot down.
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline RE

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2018, 07:09:19 PM »
Nice!
Everybody should have a killawatt meter... Fairly cheap as well and so much better than guess work if you are going ahead with a more power hungry test.
http://a.co/6ktfZ5j

I use this one for work a lot its a power bar and surge protector with more functions but it is pricey
http://a.co/5hNsCpE

what was the battery voltage at the end of the test? it would be good to jot down.

Too bad you didn't post that link to the Killawat meter yesterday.  :(  I just made a big order from Amazon last night, I would have added it to that order.  I have all sorts of great shit coming my way by around May 13 according to Amazon shipping.  :icon_sunny:  New bedside shitting commode just in case! lol.  New Sock-Putter-Onners for cripples!  Big purchase, new small laptop for trips to the ER which might hold the possibility of being admitted for a few days.  Floor clear vinyl carpet covering that your office chair will roll on properly (my office area is going 360 now with stations all around the chair).

I didn't measure voltage after the test, although I do have a couple of volt meters...somewhere. ???  :icon_scratch: I think they are in one of the vehicles.  I doubt it went under 12V though.  With just that load, I think it would have gone another full 24 non-stop.

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Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2018, 07:25:25 PM »
friends don't let friends drink and Prime...
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline RE

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2018, 11:27:41 AM »
Today's experiment was with my OLDEST prep batt for emergency power outages.  It pre-dates the deep cycle marine batt by a year or two, I think I bought this one in 2009.  It is a smaller Lawn Tractor batt and not designed as a deep cycle but rather a starter batt.  Regardless of that, it still has decent ability to drain and recharge, and these things come CHEAP!  I think I paid around $30 for it brand spanking new.

It is now 9 years old of course, and I haven't maintained it all that well over the time period.  There were many long periods where it was not on the trickle charger all the time.  So I was curious just how much life it had left in it? ???  :icon_scratch:  For this test, I hooked it up to the small Inverter and ran the hanging work light off of it which is sufficient lighting for getting around and working in my main waking workspace of my digs.

With the batt as fully charged as it gets these days, I flipped on the light and let it run.

Small Batt Test1
Small Batt Test1

Here is how the RE workspace area looks lit up by just this light.  It is not ideal placement, a lot of light is being lost here.  In a real situation, it would be more centrally placed on the other side of the room.

Small Batt Test2
Small Batt Test2

Quite surprisingly to me, this old, small, non-deep cycle batt ran this light for 9 hours straight!  :o  I would of course in a real situation never run it that long straight.  While at the computer (most of the time) I need no more light than the screen puts out and the keyboard I have is backlit with all the keys also backlit.  In fact when up and running, the computer itself provides me enough light to negotiate the room safely without tripping over shit.  Not enough light to do tasks like cooking with though.

I would in fact never run such a light for 9 continuous hours.  In a real situation, it might get 2-3 hours of use a day.  So on just this setup with no recharging from the Yamaha genny, I can expect my 3 days of comfort zone with light and no genny recharges necessary.   This also takes more load off of my main batt/inverter setup to run the computer and router, and the ice maker when I run that test.

I am fairly certain of a 3 day window with no recharges necessary in emergency temporary power outage situations.  Recharge time after 3 days, 7-10 hours.  Fuel estimate for said recharge, around 1 gallon.  My total on hand gasoline storage outside of the tanks of my vehicles in Jerry Cans is 24 Gal, 4 5 gallon containers and 2 2 gallon containers.  I rotate through them periodically by putting the gas in my vehicles to burn and buy new gas to fill them with.  The gas does not seem to go bad here over a full year even without a stabilizer.  Probably because we have such a low average temperature.  This might not work so well in a warmer climate where the gas mixture is changed more frequently to reflect the weather.

So, this gives me 24 days of full recharges of the batts, multiplied by 3 for 72 days of pretty close to full electric power with no outside additions.  This is more than 2 months!  :o  I do not expect that 2 months will go by without my local gas station getting a delivery, and I can be the first one there when they do get one.  It is only 1/4 mile from my front door, I can get there on my Ewz with a Jerry Can also.

For me to lose lights and lose my computer would really take TEOTWAWKI.  This level of backup is as good as I will get.  Beyond this, you need room to set up a big ass solar/wind installation with a fucking big ass battery bank too.  I got no room for that, and I am not going there either even if I did have the room.  If/When things slide that far downhill, it is time for RE to cross the Great Divide and establish my new digs on the Other Side.  See you there.

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« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 11:53:31 AM by RE »
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Offline Palloy2

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2018, 03:09:40 PM »
Unless you mentioned it earlier, you didn't say what wattage your light has.  I have found 4 W to be more than sufficient for a large room, I would try 2 W if I could get the bulb.  And I think you simply said, "it did 9 hours, so I expect it would do x hours, and need 7-10 hours of recharging every 3 days", which is not very scientific.  Since it is a 12 V battery, it seems logical to remove the inverter and use a 12V bulb directly.  The improvement in time would give us an idea of the inefficiency of the inverter at that low load, which would be interesting.

In other words, please do it again properly.
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Offline RE

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Re: RE Gets ORGANIZED!
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2018, 07:04:30 PM »
Unless you mentioned it earlier, you didn't say what wattage your light has.  I have found 4 W to be more than sufficient for a large room, I would try 2 W if I could get the bulb.  And I think you simply said, "it did 9 hours, so I expect it would do x hours, and need 7-10 hours of recharging every 3 days", which is not very scientific.  Since it is a 12 V battery, it seems logical to remove the inverter and use a 12V bulb directly.  The improvement in time would give us an idea of the inefficiency of the inverter at that low load, which would be interesting.

In other words, please do it again properly.

It's 24W.   I could do with less.

Recharge times for the batts may not be "scientific" enough for you, I base them on my experience with my batts and my AC/DC chargers, which all run different amperages, mostly between 2-6A, but one with a high power mode that pushes out 30A if you are on a circuit big enough to handle that load.  I never use this level though.

I could definitely get even more efficient utilizing diode lights run straight off DC current, no inverter.  That is really overkill though, considering I only use the whole setup in emergency grid down situations which I get maybe 3 times a year for any significan amount of time, say over 1 hour.  Rest of the time I pull grid power like everybody else, just I pull much less of it than most people.  My entire electric bill doesn't come to more than $15/month, most of my bill from the power cooperative is for the NG that heats the apartment and I cook with.  That part of the bill is around $40/mo in the winter.

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