AuthorTopic: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.  (Read 3407 times)

Offline Agent Graves

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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2018, 05:22:54 PM »
What Agent Graves was claiming is that a communist 'revolution' never stops but keeps on murdering forever while a rich mans 'revolution' is guaranteed to put poor people in a daylight rambler and give everybody a two car garage and 30K in the bank once the dust settles.  In a rising tide lifting all boats sort of way. 

Attacking the redefinition of 'revolution' was a good way to address that nonsense.

No kdog that is not what i said at all. The communists themselves still call it a revolution fifty or a hundred years later. I guess if you are still needing to kill millions of enemies, maybe it IS still a revolution. The western concept of revolution seems to be  only the process of seizing power, since they stopped calling it a revolution once they did that. As I said, they do not still call it an ongoing revolution now in france or the US, as communists did right until the end of their reign.

A rich mans revolution is che's. A rich med student who could afford to travel the world on dads dollars. He never would have joined something as a rank and file. The reason comfortable western world communists do not emigrate to communist countries to walk their talk is exactly the same. They do not want to be rank and file or footsoldiers. They always believe they should be in charge. For the true poor they have something to gain by being rank and file, if the rich communists follow through on making everyone equal, but it has never happened.

I said only about french and american revolutions that they did not need to continue murdering until they ran out of money to run the apparatus, because they never promised to make everyone equal. as to the 30k in the bank and 2 car garage, you did get that under the american revln right?, although i never said it was guaranteed or a rising tide lifts all boats. Things are far more complicated than that and come down to the individuals personal psychic energy and beliefs, no matter where or when he is born. Ive seen too many times that where there is a will there is a way.

Iv'e pointed out elsewhere in this discussion already, what was said by the ex soviets, " they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work" is in fact alluring to me. The communist apologists here will probably claim again that is just western funded propaganda though. What I have said, which u missed, is that I don't believe in using money at all, and it is an extremely corrupted culture which estimates your worth in the most crude measure, meaning money. I think I should be valued for whatever this type of insight is worth, not that I can put on a swiss watch if I have a meeting with fatcats. I said earlier that "they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work" is attractive because we should not have to be so pre-occupied with obtaining money, either just to live or to accomplish more.


 
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 05:40:14 PM by Agent Graves »
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Online jdwheeler42

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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2018, 09:36:36 PM »
Quote
And if they follow the rules for an insurrection, and not a revolution, it might even be successful.

OK then, what are the rules for an insurrection?  If everyone gets a trial and an appeal, and is still found guilty and executed, is the head of the appellate court a war criminal?
Wrong kind of rules... think more along the lines of "rules of engagement".

First and foremost rule of running a successful insurrection, make sure you have supplies that can not be cut off by the government you are fighting.  So, for example, don't rely on foreign oil to grow your crops to feed your troops if the oil can be embargoed.
Let me take it a step backwards, by way of analogy, to make the difference between revolutions and insurrections even clearer....

Scientists did a study tracking via radio collar all the mountain lions in a given area.  They found that, except for mating, whenever two adult mountain lions came together, it was always a fight to the death.

So, if you are a mountain lion, and you are going to fight another mountain lion, you have to be prepared for a fight to the death.  That is like having a revolution.

If you are a deer, however, and you encounter a mountain lion, your goal is not to kill the mountain lion.  It is to run away and keep from getting killed until the mountain lion decides you're not worth pursuing anymore and gives up.  That is like having an insurrection.
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Offline K-Dog

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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2018, 09:46:06 PM »
I have no wish to trade my current repressive government for an even more repressive government so that I personally can live a lower standard of living. Tell me again why that's a good thing?

Oh come on.  Even you acknowledge to develop any kind of society that is remotely "sustainable" we need to Power Down, use less fossil fuels and live closer to the land with more of the population involved in food production.  The Cuban Revolution forced all those things to happen, and today Cuba is far better prepared for SHTF Day than the FSoA.  Voluntarily giving up your vacations to the VI and lowering your standard of living is a way to provide a better chance for your kids to have any kind of future at all.
I've got to second RE on this.  At least with the current government evidence can support or disprove that the government is repressive or not.  It is a matter of opinion but only so far, because facts are facts are facts and repression can be measured.  In contrast any government we 'trade' it for is a total speculative unknown because it has not yet happened.  It is a logical fallacy of some kind.  Maybe this one?


RE

Perhaps expressing two things which can't possibly be traded is not exactly an amphiboly in a strict grammatical sense but the content of Eddie's statement is a claim that this is the best of all possible world by equating knowledge of a future which has not yet transpired.  That violates causality and is impossible.  It is a bourgeois acceptance of the status quo.

If you are confused think of having "repressive government" on both sides of a mathematical equation.  Basic algebra would cancel them out leaving you with the conclusion that we should accept what we have now because it must be the best.  That is Eddie's claim.  Problem is one of Eddies 'repressive governments' is imaginary and in the future and other one is not and is here with us right now.  Two different things which can't be equated can't cancel each other out, be the current government repressive or not.
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Offline K-Dog

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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2018, 12:20:47 AM »
What Agent Graves was claiming is that a communist 'revolution' never stops but keeps on murdering forever while a rich mans 'revolution' is guaranteed to put poor people in a daylight rambler and give everybody a two car garage and 30K in the bank once the dust settles.  In a rising tide lifting all boats sort of way. 

Attacking the redefinition of 'revolution' was a good way to address that nonsense.

A rich mans revolution is che's. A rich med student who could afford to travel the world on dads dollars. He never would have joined something as a rank and file. The reason comfortable western world communists do not emigrate to communist countries to walk their talk is exactly the same. They do not want to be rank and file or footsoldiers. They always believe they should be in charge. For the true poor they have something to gain by being rank and file, if the rich communists follow through on making everyone equal, but it has never happened.


"Despite atypical political views, the family was in many ways typical of the country's upper-middle class, and it was expected that Guevara would attend college and pursue a career. Influenced by his struggle with chronic asthma and his grandmother's death from cancer, Guevara chose medicine as his profession. After graduating from high school with honors at the age of 19, he enrolled in medical school at the University of Buenos Aires. Restless and adventuresome, Guevara left his studies in 1952 to motorcycle and hitchhike across South America with his friend Alberto Granados, a biochemist.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/people/history/cuban-history-biographies/che-guevara


Quote
What I have said, which u missed, is that I don't believe in using money at all, and it is an extremely corrupted culture which estimates your worth in the most crude measure, meaning money. I think I should be valued for whatever this type of insight is worth, not that I can put on a swiss watch if I have a meeting with fatcats. I said earlier that "they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work" is attractive because we should not have to be so pre-occupied with obtaining money, either just to live or to accomplish more.



"It is confirmed that Che Guevara received at least two different Rolex watches from Castro during the late 1950’s and 1960’s. Precision timepieces were a necessary item of equipment for field commanders, especially in the pre-quartz watch era. An accurate watch was crucial for coordinating and synchronizing military operations, and the reliability and precision of Rolex watches made them an obvious choice.

The first Rolex Guevara received was in 1958 when Castro promoted him to the position of Comandante; however, less than a year later, Che gave that very same watch to his father. In 1966, Castro gave Guevara a second Rolex– right before he left Cuba for Bolivia.

https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-blog/rolex-fashion/rolex-watches-che-guevara.html

As head of the central bank, it was Che's duty to sign Cuban bank notes, which by custom bore his signature. Instead of using his full name Ernesto Guevara, he signed the notes simply "Che".  This act horrified the Cuban financial sector and signaled Guevara's disgust of money and the class distinctions it brought about.



Che

Presidente Del Banco

In the lower left.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2018, 10:00:14 AM »
I have no wish to trade my current repressive government for an even more repressive government so that I personally can live a lower standard of living. Tell me again why that's a good thing?

Oh come on.  Even you acknowledge to develop any kind of society that is remotely "sustainable" we need to Power Down, use less fossil fuels and live closer to the land with more of the population involved in food production.  The Cuban Revolution forced all those things to happen, and today Cuba is far better prepared for SHTF Day than the FSoA.  Voluntarily giving up your vacations to the VI and lowering your standard of living is a way to provide a better chance for your kids to have any kind of future at all.
I've got to second RE on this.  At least with the current government evidence can support or disprove that the government is repressive or not.  It is a matter of opinion but only so far, because facts are facts are facts and repression can be measured.  In contrast any government we 'trade' it for is a total speculative unknown because it has not yet happened.  It is a logical fallacy of some kind.  Maybe this one?


RE

Perhaps expressing two things which can't possibly be traded is not exactly an amphiboly in a strict grammatical sense but the content of Eddie's statement is a claim that this is the best of all possible world by equating knowledge of a future which has not yet transpired.  That violates causality and is impossible.  It is a bourgeois acceptance of the status quo.

If you are confused think of having "repressive government" on both sides of a mathematical equation.  Basic algebra would cancel them out leaving you with the conclusion that we should accept what we have now because it must be the best.  That is Eddie's claim.  Problem is one of Eddies 'repressive governments' is imaginary and in the future and other one is not and is here with us right now.  Two different things which can't be equated can't cancel each other out, be the current government repressive or not.

You don't think Cuba is more repressive than the US?  I suggest you try to move there. You can't. (Unless you marry a Cuban. Interestingly, even if you do marry a Cuban, you have to show "proof of funds". Got that? That means you have to bring money to the table.LOL.)

Or if you live there, try to leave. Anyone who thinks communism is less repressive than the the US should have a short conversation with anyone from South Viet Nam who had to stay after we pulled out. Remember East Berlin?

What? Are you people completely daft? I'm taking off and leaving you guys to dream about your fantasy world. Have fun.

Cuba didn't power down on purpose. They were forced to by circumstance. This makes them an interesting example of what the future is likely to hold. It does NOT make them superior, or a good place to live, or anything particularly positive.

I have no trouble at all recognizing repression, here or elsewhere. I measure it in higher taxes. I measure it in public lands once open to all but now made inaccessible. I measure it by the loss of rights of all kinds. I measure it by confiscated property, and how many people are in jail for bullshit charges.

Your "mathematical" analogy makes no damn sense to me, sorry. Not sure what you were going for there.

Repression is not the future. Repression is here and ongoing, and getting worse all the time. Anyone who thinks our government isn't repressive should do something to make contact with the court system. Guaranteed to make your represso-meter go right off the scale.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 10:03:03 AM by Eddie »
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Offline Karpatok

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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2018, 10:48:12 AM »
 Well does "repression" have anything to do with resource scarcity? There is always resource scarcity more or less, less in good times, more in hard times. But now we have resource depletion and too many mouths to feed and therefore too many screams of social injustice and lack of equality. Who gets the biggest pieces of pie. Those with money and power. Who are the most repressed? Those living in places where the pie is declared evenly distributed by dictum. It's all bullshit of course, because the strongest, most opportunistic, smartest and most able always get more pie even when the pie is getting devoured. Idealists propose otherwise. That is what ideals are. Not reality! Reality is dark and stark. Nobody wants to look at it. They would rather just keep yammering about injustice and who is going to bell the cat. It's not going to change when the resources are next to nothing. The same fight for power and pie will continue in the midst of starvation. Only the weak will have less breath to scream and the strong and opportunistic will have more reason to uphold "private property". It has always been so. It will continue to be so. So Scream On. Cheers.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2018, 11:19:40 AM »
I think resource scarcity and repression are clearly linked.

In a world (like the one humans once lived on a few generations ago), with lots of wide open spaces and not that many people, it is much easier to live a life free of government repression.

For nearly 100 years, malcontents from the lower 48 went and lived like mountain men in Alaska on public land. They trapped and fished, and lived for years without any contact with the government. Now the US Forest Service has helicopters and technology that can spot a cooking fire miles away. All those old guys died off and new ones are not allowed. The commons has been effectively cleared, because that public land has to be managed. By "managers". Bullshit. The Forest Service is in service to the corporations who profit from the resources, not the people. It's that simple.

Even though the US Constitution GUARANTEES  the right for Americans to occupy public land.

But yeah. I do agree that the idea that you can redistribute wealth equitably to build a better world overlooks the fact that some people are greedy no matter what their politics, and that powerful people always manage to do pretty much what they want, regardless.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 11:24:29 AM by Eddie »
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Offline Karpatok

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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2018, 01:18:17 PM »
I think resource scarcity and repression are clearly linked.

In a world (like the one humans once lived on a few generations ago), with lots of wide open spaces and not that many people, it is much easier to live a life free of government repression.

For nearly 100 years, malcontents from the lower 48 went and lived like mountain men in Alaska on public land. They trapped and fished, and lived for years without any contact with the government. Now the US Forest Service has helicopters and technology that can spot a cooking fire miles away. All those old guys died off and new ones are not allowed. The commons has been effectively cleared, because that public land has to be managed. By "managers". Bullshit. The Forest Service is in service to the corporations who profit from the resources, not the people. It's that simple.

Even though the US Constitution GUARANTEES  the right for Americans to occupy public land.

But yeah. I do agree that the idea that you can redistribute wealth equitably to build a better world overlooks the fact that some people are greedy no matter what their politics, and that powerful people always manage to do pretty much what they want, regardless.                 
.   "In a world (like the one humans lived on a few generations ago)" etc. Oh yeah? Like in the US, you mean, where your commons belonged to another people, considered today, especially by Texans and others of the Conquerers and Genociders to be "Human Garbage"?  Yes, that commons that to them was Sacred, in a land now defiled and vilified by another Human Garbage to whom nothing and no being under the sun is sacred, save themselves in their demand for freedom to destroy anything considered sacred before their ugly and ignominious births. 
               " SOME people are greedy no matter what their politics". Some?  Put the screamers for equality in positions of power and I guarantee you will have the same amount of greediness. And btw, be careful that you never discuss who really holds the power. As Voltaire said, to paraphrase, be aware of whom you are not allowed to criticize. Don't ever forget that that is the greatest repression of all! Speaking of repression!

Offline agelbert

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« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2018, 03:03:50 PM »
I think resource scarcity and repression are clearly linked.

In a world (like the one humans once lived on a few generations ago), with lots of wide open spaces and not that many people, it is much easier to live a life free of government repression.

For nearly 100 years, malcontents from the lower 48 went and lived like mountain men in Alaska on public land. They trapped and fished, and lived for years without any contact with the government. Now the US Forest Service has helicopters and technology that can spot a cooking fire miles away. All those old guys died off and new ones are not allowed. The commons has been effectively cleared, because that public land has to be managed. By "managers". Bullshit. The Forest Service is in service to the corporations who profit from the resources, not the people. It's that simple.

Even though the US Constitution GUARANTEES  the right for Americans to occupy public land.

But yeah. I do agree that the idea that you can redistribute wealth equitably to build a better world overlooks the fact that some people are greedy no matter what their politics, and that powerful people always manage to do pretty much what they want, regardless.

Yep. Nevertheless, the following extremely profitable business in the USA has absolutely nothing to do with resource depletion and everything to do with carefully and cruelly planned exploitation, humiliation, impovershment, legal slavery and the methodical destruction of all socially beneficial cohesion in communites of color. I am certain that Cuba is less repressive, at least in this regard.

 
Rattling the Bars: More Arrests And Jail Time

June 17, 2018

Executive Producer Eddie Conway uncovers why more arrests are not resulting in safer making communities.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/jFQoXXmPAxo&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/jFQoXXmPAxo&fs=1</a>
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 03:19:58 PM by agelbert »
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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2018, 03:30:07 PM »
Well does "repression" have anything to do with resource scarcity?
The big thing is that when the pie is getting larger, everyone can have a larger piece, even if the poor only get crumbs.  ("Let them eat crumbs" is what she said, not cake!)  When the pie is getting smaller, that trick no longer works; for the rich to get richer, the poor must get poorer.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2018, 04:50:47 PM »
Cuba didn't power down on purpose. They were forced to by circumstance. This makes them an interesting example of what the future is likely to hold. It does NOT make them superior, or a good place to live, or anything particularly positive.

I have no trouble at all recognizing repression, here or elsewhere. I measure it in higher taxes. I measure it in public lands once open to all but now made inaccessible. I measure it by the loss of rights of all kinds. I measure it by confiscated property, and how many people are in jail for bullshit charges.

Your "mathematical" analogy makes no damn sense to me, sorry. Not sure what you were going for there.

Repression is not the future. Repression is here and ongoing, and getting worse all the time. Anyone who thinks our government isn't repressive should do something to make contact with the court system. Guaranteed to make your represso-meter go right off the scale.
The big problem is that much of your freedom is built on your ownership of slaves.

Now granted, we're talking the mechanical kind, a la 22 Billion Energy Slaves.

But if they didn't work for you, your options would be much more limited.

And, the real problem is, most of them run off of petroleum, which will be running short.  And even before that, they are already doing irreparable damage to our life support systems.

So, repression is the future.  That's one thing Cuba can teach us.  The funny part is, if we resign ourselves to living by Mother Nature's rules, we end up with the most freedom in the end.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline Palloy2

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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2018, 06:57:27 PM »
Quote
Eddie: You don't think Cuba is more repressive than the US?  I suggest you try to move there. You can't.

That's biased BS.  You probably can't become a citizen of Cuba unless you marry a Cuban, but that's the same anywhere.  But you can go there for a holiday, or for a political conference (I know people who have been there, organised thru WSWS), and in Michael Moore's "Sicko" he took a dozen sick US citizens there and they got treated in hospital for free, and medicines free.  He wasn't allowed to go to the US part at Guantanamo.  After 50 years of US sanctions, their infrastructure is very run down, but that would be true in any country.

The ones that want to leave are the ones who have availed themselves of all the socialised free education, and then want to move somewhere else where they can earn more money for themselves and not pay Cuban taxes.  Greedy scum in other words.
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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2018, 11:32:42 PM »
I think resource scarcity and repression are clearly linked.

In a world (like the one humans once lived on a few generations ago), with lots of wide open spaces and not that many people, it is much easier to live a life free of government repression.

For nearly 100 years, malcontents from the lower 48 went and lived like mountain men in Alaska on public land. They trapped and fished, and lived for years without any contact with the government. Now the US Forest Service has helicopters and technology that can spot a cooking fire miles away. All those old guys died off and new ones are not allowed. The commons has been effectively cleared, because that public land has to be managed. By "managers". Bullshit. The Forest Service is in service to the corporations who profit from the resources, not the people. It's that simple.

Even though the US Constitution GUARANTEES  the right for Americans to occupy public land.

But yeah. I do agree that the idea that you can redistribute wealth equitably to build a better world overlooks the fact that some people are greedy no matter what their politics, and that powerful people always manage to do pretty much what they want, regardless.                 
.   "In a world (like the one humans lived on a few generations ago)" etc. Oh yeah? Like in the US, you mean, where your commons belonged to another people, considered today, especially by Texans and others of the Conquerers and Genociders to be "Human Garbage"?  Yes, that commons that to them was Sacred, in a land now defiled and vilified by another Human Garbage to whom nothing and no being under the sun is sacred, save themselves in their demand for freedom to destroy anything considered sacred before their ugly and ignominious births. 
               " SOME people are greedy no matter what their politics". Some?  Put the screamers for equality in positions of power and I guarantee you will have the same amount of greediness. And btw, be careful that you never discuss who really holds the power. As Voltaire said, to paraphrase, be aware of whom you are not allowed to criticize. Don't ever forget that that is the greatest repression of all! Speaking of repression!


Regarding public land.  I read a book which was about poor people last month.  The reason we now have tent cities is because a supreme court decision has determined quite rightly that homeless people have a limited right to public spaces which can't be denied.  I don't know that the supreme court anticipated that vehicles would soon be significant inhabitants, not just tents.



About a mile from work.

A park my car a block from where the boys of summer play. 
City lights through ventilated walls polish shiny paint as it sits.
Along the street where the beautiful people walk.
A porcelain bathtub beacons behind a window displaying high end home furnishings.
I walk past trees planted in steel grates but no prisoners are these.
Watered by brown men with hoses every day they'd not walk away.
South past the Down and Out tavern.
That is what it is called but nobody here is poor, everybody works.
$10 drinks, a place to be seen, and preen.
Artisan pizza next door will rescue a few.
Waiters smile at those who can pay.
Rented rickshaws will take others away.
Excited conversation fills the air, smiling plans for later are made.
South then east across the tracks where the oil trains pass.
Past men sleeping in the grass.
Across the tracks into the land of tents.
Everybody here is poor, nobody works.
Free drinks from passed bottles.
No Artisan Pizza but there is a Micky D's.
Security guards smile at those who can pay.
Men walk with nowhere to go.
No excited conversation fills the air, nobody has a plan.
Across the street a madman rants.


I'm a poet and I didn't even know it.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 11:40:05 PM by K-Dog »
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2018, 05:23:43 AM »
I think resource scarcity and repression are clearly linked.

In a world (like the one humans once lived on a few generations ago), with lots of wide open spaces and not that many people, it is much easier to live a life free of government repression.

For nearly 100 years, malcontents from the lower 48 went and lived like mountain men in Alaska on public land. They trapped and fished, and lived for years without any contact with the government. Now the US Forest Service has helicopters and technology that can spot a cooking fire miles away. All those old guys died off and new ones are not allowed. The commons has been effectively cleared, because that public land has to be managed. By "managers". Bullshit. The Forest Service is in service to the corporations who profit from the resources, not the people. It's that simple.

Even though the US Constitution GUARANTEES  the right for Americans to occupy public land.

But yeah. I do agree that the idea that you can redistribute wealth equitably to build a better world overlooks the fact that some people are greedy no matter what their politics, and that powerful people always manage to do pretty much what they want, regardless.                 
.   "In a world (like the one humans lived on a few generations ago)" etc. Oh yeah? Like in the US, you mean, where your commons belonged to another people, considered today, especially by Texans and others of the Conquerers and Genociders to be "Human Garbage"?  Yes, that commons that to them was Sacred, in a land now defiled and vilified by another Human Garbage to whom nothing and no being under the sun is sacred, save themselves in their demand for freedom to destroy anything considered sacred before their ugly and ignominious births. 
               " SOME people are greedy no matter what their politics". Some?  Put the screamers for equality in positions of power and I guarantee you will have the same amount of greediness. And btw, be careful that you never discuss who really holds the power. As Voltaire said, to paraphrase, be aware of whom you are not allowed to criticize. Don't ever forget that that is the greatest repression of all! Speaking of repression!


Give it a break. You know nothing of the history here where I live, and if you did, you'd know that your simplistic view of peaceful tribes living in harmony with nature is a total fabrication. The real indigenous tribes of Texas mostly died off en masse shortly before the Europeans showed up.

Now, whether that might have been due to new pathogens imported by the Spaniards, that much is debatable. There is evidence of overpopulation and over-dependence on monocrop agriculture. Nobody really knows the whole story. But by the time the Spaniards and Anglos showed up in numbers, they were already dying out.

https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/tejas/fundamentals/timeline.html

The Comanches, who were themselves interlopers from the north, made it easy for the whites to justify wiping them out, since they liked to scalp settlers and torture their captives.





What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Che Guevara, From The Historical Evidence.
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2018, 05:40:28 AM »
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Eddie: You don't think Cuba is more repressive than the US?  I suggest you try to move there. You can't.

That's biased BS.  You probably can't become a citizen of Cuba unless you marry a Cuban, but that's the same anywhere.  But you can go there for a holiday, or for a political conference (I know people who have been there, organised thru WSWS), and in Michael Moore's "Sicko" he took a dozen sick US citizens there and they got treated in hospital for free, and medicines free.  He wasn't allowed to go to the US part at Guantanamo.  After 50 years of US sanctions, their infrastructure is very run down, but that would be true in any country.

The ones that want to leave are the ones who have availed themselves of all the socialised free education, and then want to move somewhere else where they can earn more money for themselves and not pay Cuban taxes.  Greedy scum in other words.

No, stupid man. It is not biased BS.

Cubans have been coming to the US by the tens of thousands per decade for my entire lifetime.



And why would educated Cubans want to leave anyway, if it's such  a spiffy place to live and all? Maybe because all the doctors there have to work a side job to make it? Yeah, that could be it.

For exactly the last 59 years, each and every Cuban who managed to stumble across the US border got asylum. Right up until this year. It is NOT the same everywhere.

I can, for the moment, go anywhere I want, anytime I want. That equates to less repression. It just does, Sorry about that.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

 

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