AuthorTopic: Who They Are...  (Read 9776 times)

Offline Surly1

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Re: What White Supremacists Know
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2018, 06:11:17 AM »
It's a load o' crap.

Really?  I don't agree, and neither would Chris Hedges.  But like Russell Bentley, I suppose you think he is "just as crazy as me" also.  You are the one pitching a load of crap here, all as self-justification for the life of priviledge you lead.  Capitalism=Good, Communism=Bad.  "Everybody has equal opportunity to lift themselves up by their bootstraps like I did.  I was poor white trash once."  "Minorities get too many breaks." etc, etc, etc.  You basically deny all of the history of how this whole system got implemented and how it is enforced.  It's useless to argue with you though, because you won't let go of these principles, they form the basis of your life.

RE



I can't blame Eddie at all. IN fact, my quality of life depends on the status quo as well, and I fully recognize that. It's just that I don't give a shit, nor do I have accumulated property and wealth.

What I leave behind might buy a couple of six packs. Al Capone was right, and Smedley Butler recognized the same thing.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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Re: What White Supremacists Know
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2018, 06:21:19 AM »
I can't blame Eddie at all.

I don't "blame" Eddie either.  It just would be nice if he actually recognized what is going on here and stopped trying to defend it.

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Offline Surly1

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Re: What White Supremacists Know
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2018, 06:29:17 AM »
I can't blame Eddie at all.

I don't "blame" Eddie either.  It just would be nice if he actually recognized what is going on here and stopped trying to defend it.

RE



The truest words ever uttered about money or politics in America.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Eddie

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Re: Who They Are...
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2018, 06:33:24 AM »
I just recognize bullshit when I smell it. The author of that article is a typical neo-marxist academic who is perpetuating a false narrative. The fact that it's widely believed by well-meaning liberal white people like yourselves don't make it gospel.

In the 18th and 19th centuries, all white people were pretty much "white supremacists", in that the Europeans who settled this country of ours were not believers in the rights of indigenous peoples. We all know that much. I'm not denying that.

What I would say is that the notion that the indigenous people were somehow superior and had the world figured out better than the Europeans, can be argued, but the truth is a very mixed bag. Many of them were quite vicious and  warlike.

To say that that today's neo-Nazis are some kind of continuation of Manifest Destiny is a real long reach, from my POV.

I don't recognize academic Marxists like Dunbar-Ortiz as the ultimate authority on the subject. Her own resume as a spokesperson for indigenous people is pretty much made up from the whole cloth, for one thing.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Who They Are...
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2018, 06:57:18 AM »
I just recognize bullshit when I smell it. The author of that article is a typical neo-marxist

There's something wrong with neo-marxists? ???  :icon_scratch:

What is bullshit is the crap pitched out by John Maynard Keynes, Frederic Hayek, Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, et al.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Who They Are...
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2018, 07:07:44 AM »
Are we gonna talk about them now?  That's different subject. Milton Friedman would have done fine under communism. What he was was a statist, pure and simple. In my view he was a cancer.

My problem with the neo-Marxists is that they aren't the least bit reality based. They are, by and large, ignorant dreamers who think communism is a better system than the one we have now. I have yet to see any evidence that supports that.

My biggest problem with people who spend their academic careers telling various special groups how special they are, and how bad they got ripped off by the white male patriarchy, just make those people think the world somehow owes them something today, because of what happened 150 years ago, before any or now living was even born.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Who They Are...
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2018, 07:12:42 AM »
My problem with the neo-Marxists is that they aren't the least bit reality based. They are, by and large, ignorant dreamers who think communism is a better system than the one we have now.

Anything would be better than the system we have now.  It's Fascism that exploits the Poor to enrich a tiny segment of society.  You are a middle man in this system and your job depends on its continuation.  Upton Sinclair applies.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Who They Are...
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2018, 07:22:20 AM »
I'm a doctor who has work.

Someone who is lucky enough to make enough money to save a few bucks. I'll still be who and what I am no matter who runs the show. I'm not a middle man at all. I'm a primary service provider. Middle men are the fucking bane of my existence.

Your characterization of my place in this society is based on delusional thinking, and your rationalizations about your own life.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Who They Are...
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2018, 07:26:59 AM »

Your characterization of my place in this society is based on delusional thinking, and your rationalizations about your own life.

So now I am "delusional" instead of "crazy"?  Your constant use of Ad Hom in this debate is direct evidence of the poverty of your perspective.  You can't argue to topic, you just name-call.  I am done with it.  Live in your fantasy world.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Who They Are...
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2018, 07:49:32 AM »
You're perfectly happy to call me names. I used to give you a pass, but now I'm not. If you want to insult me, expect to get insulted back. I'm not your intellectual inferior.

And your biases  are obvious to everyone who knows you. Is this where you start napalming?

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Surly1

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Up Against the Wall, Motherfucker...
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2018, 07:54:25 AM »
I just recognize bullshit when I smell it. The author of that article is a typical neo-marxist

There's something wrong with neo-marxists? ???  :icon_scratch:

What is bullshit is the crap pitched out by John Maynard Keynes, Frederic Hayek, Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, et al.

RE

Well, we can all compose our favorite list of villains, but for my money, name, target and terminate the centrist "both-siders" who make handsome livings posting a false equivalency between left and right where the left are moderate Republicans and the right are seething, armed Nazis and republiconfederates.

There are always those like John Avlon who want to "hug it out, bro," and to whom I offer the back of my hand. Hard. These so called "centrists" make a career of trying to find a middle ground in our current politics, which puts it squarely in what used to be called "hard right" in America, such has our politics been debased by the malefactors of great wealth and their media hey-boys.

Why these preening, glossy coated corporate lapdogs do is offer legitimacy and succor to those quislings who collaborated with the enemy during wartime, but who want tcome slinking back to legitimacy after their leader goes tits-up. It happened with Bush: after it became impossible to wash off the stink, the "Tea Party™" was born, and your Crazy Uncle Liberty was washed clean in the blood of the lamb, and reborn as an "Independent."

Watch for this shit as the rats go careening off the good ship Trump. You already see the Bill Kristols and Max Boots of the world going on the so-called "librul" media as "Never-Trumpers" and occupying seats to spout the usual right wing corporate dogma. (It still amuses the fuck out of me that people insist MSDNC is "librul.") Corporate media always prepares the lifeboats for these people. Look at what Fuck Toad reportedly did with "Press the Meat" over the weekend: had on a Heritage Foundation skank to talk about climate change. And clean coal is a vitamin.

So when I take over, I'm rounding up the John Avlons, Kathleen Parkers, Jeff Greenfields, David Fucking Brookses, Michael Smerconishes and Andrew Sullivans of the world, and putting them on an island where they can bleat "it’s time to denounce the harsh partisans who feed on polarization. It’s time to give independents a voice” to one another while lighting their own farts.

Now, I am not entirely unreasonable, and I recognize that some do have a mix of affiliations. A gaggle of pearl-clutchers assert that both parties are too controlled by their most strident, uncivil, and extreme elements. To which I reply, have you SEEN the Democrats? How one can make such a "both-sides" assertion simply beggars reason. Some advocate fiscal responsibility and individual freedom which leads them closer to the GOP on economic issues and closer to the Democrats on social issues.

To which I raise a chorus of "Which Side Are You On?"

Both sides don't. Both sides are not responsible for the recent slaughter in Squirrel Hill. Only the right is to blame — starting with Trump and his enthusiastic bobbleheads in the Republican Party.

Both sides don't have a President* who exhorts hate, and who appeals to the darkest aspects of the spirit.
Who encourages bloodshed.
It wasn't a Democratic president who resurrected a slur used by murderous dictators like Hitler and Stalin to denounce the "Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People" while spewing provable falsehoods every day.
Both sides don't kidnap children, or target them with tear gas when appearing at our border to request asylum.
And then accuse the victims of being used as "human shields."
Both sides didn't launch a presidential campaign on the premise that Mexicans are "rapists" and "drug dealers."
Both sides didn't equate protestors with armed nazis, and post charlottesville call the nazis "very fine people."
Both sides didn't didn't call for a "total and complete shutdown” of Muslim refugees entering the country.
Both sides didn't send a tweet warning followers that "we cannot allow" three wealthy Jewish donors to "BUY this election," and then rush to delete it after some of the targeted started receiving pipe bombs in the mail.
It wasn't a Democratic lawmaker who posted a video of someone purportedly handing out cash to Honduran migrants to "storm the US border" and then questioned who was behind it. "Soros?" (GOP Rep. Matt Gaetz)
Both sides did not assert, without proof of any sort, that "criminals and unknown Middle Easterners" had infiltrated the migrant group of several thousand headed to the U.S. after fleeing violence in their home countries.
It wasn't a Democratic VP who supported his president’s baseless lie, saying it was "inconceivable" people of Middle Eastern descent hadn't joined the migrant group.
Or who said the caravan was "organized by leftist groups."

One could go on. But to what point?

There is politics. And then there is evil.

Compromise used to be a value in politics, before the Rs, led by Leroy N. Gingrich, redefined it as war and his political adversaries as less than human. It is hard to negotiate with someone who wants you dead. OK, then, we'll do it your way.

So to centrists and both-siderists of all strips, I offer the opportunity to kiss my ass. I'll see you in the streets.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Surly1

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Re: Who They Are...
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2018, 07:58:03 AM »

My biggest problem with people who spend their academic careers telling various special groups how special they are, and how bad they got ripped off by the white male patriarchy, just make those people think the world somehow owes them something today, because of what happened 150 years ago, before any or now living was even born.

My biggest problem is with happy white male beneficiaries of the system who were, compared to others in this society, born on third base, and will defend to the knife the premise that they hit a triple.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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Re: Who They Are...
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2018, 08:01:43 AM »
You're perfectly happy to call me names. I used to give you a pass, but now I'm not. If you want to insult me, expect to get insulted back. I'm not your intellectual inferior.

Where in this argument did I use ad hom?

Quote
And your biases  are obvious to everyone who knows you.

So are yours.

Quote
Is this where you start napalming?

No, this is where I give up pounding my head against a brick wall.

RE
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Who They Are...
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2018, 10:08:27 AM »

My biggest problem with people who spend their academic careers telling various special groups how special they are, and how bad they got ripped off by the white male patriarchy, just make those people think the world somehow owes them something today, because of what happened 150 years ago, before any or now living was even born.

My biggest problem is with happy white male beneficiaries of the system who were, compared to others in this society, born on third base, and will defend to the knife the premise that they hit a triple.

Successful people of all ethnicities in this country have one thing in common. None of them like communism.

I KNOW people who have pulled themselves up. Black people, hispanic people, white people. Real people, whose names I actually know. That all have more in common with each other than they do with those of their own races who play the victim card.

I never claimed to hit a triple. In fact, I never claimed anything but the right to work hard and do the best I could. Your dog won't hunt in these woods.

Have fun on "the streets". You won't find me there. The most likely outcome of demonstrating is that you'll get your head busted or take a stray bullet meant for somebody else.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Who They Are...
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2018, 10:20:38 AM »
Successful people of all ethnicities in this country have one thing in common. None of them like communism.

That should be self-evident.  Rich people never like communism, it would take away their privilege.  A rich person isn't better off under communism, it benefits poor people, not rich people.

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