AuthorTopic: NYT Hires Editor Who Absolutely Hates "Dumbass Fu*king White People"  (Read 3208 times)

Offline Ashvin

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Re: NYT Hires Editor Who Absolutely Hates "Dumbass Fu*king White People"
« Reply #225 on: August 13, 2018, 02:23:41 PM »
A great interview about a great book:
Understanding Victimhood Culture: An Interview with Bradley Campbell and Jason Manning
written by Claire Lehmann

Bradley Campbell, Associate Professor of Sociology at California State University, and Jason Manning, Associate Professor of Sociology at West Virginia University, have been described as “prophets of the academic world” by psychologist Jonathan Haidt, and their new collaborative work The Rise of Victimhood Culture: Microaggressions, Safe Spaces, and the New Culture Wars, “a book of revelations,” by the sociologist Donald Black. The two sociologists have aimed to supply us with an empirical sociological analysis of the recent moral conflicts that have erupted on U.S. college campuses—and the extent to which these conflicts are spreading outwards into mainstream society.

After reading the book, I reached out to the American sociologists to interview them about some of the key themes of their book, and also to gain insight into some recent cultural trends that were not covered.  What follows is a transcript of our interview conducted via email.

I. Three Moral Cultures

Claire Lehmann: Just briefly for our readers who have not read your book, can you explain the main differences between the dignity, honor and victimhood cultures which you outline in your thesis?

Bradley Campbell and Jason Manning: The three moral cultures are different clusters of traits having to do with what people find offensive and how they handle their grievances.

In dignity cultures, there is a low sensitivity to slight. People are more tolerant of insult and disagreement. Children might be taught some variant of “Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me.” It’s good to have “thick skin,” and people might be criticized for being too touchy and overreacting to slights. If the issue in the conflict is something more than a slight or insult — say, a violent assault — you’re to handle the matter through appeal to authorities such as the legal system. Taking the law into your own hands with violent vengeance is itself a serious crime and generally looked down upon.

In honor cultures, there’s a much greater sensitivity to slight. Insults demand a serious response, and even accidental slights might provoke severe conflict. Having a low tolerance for offense is more likely to be seen as a virtue than a vice. Letting yourself be slighted without seeking justice is shameful. And seeking justice is more likely to take the form of violent vengeance. Appealing to authorities is more stigmatized than taking matters into your own hands.

These two kinds of cultures emphasize different sources of moral status or worth. Honor is one’s status in the eyes of other people. It depends on reputation. And while a lot of things might go into making this reputation, the core of classical honor is physical bravery. Tolerating slights is shameful because you let someone put you down without defending your reputation by force. It suggests cowardice. Appealing to the authorities is shameful for the same reason. Virtue means being bold and forceful, aggressively defending your reputation against any challenges, and being vigilant for signs that someone else is probing you for weakness.

Dignity is a kind of inherent and inalienable moral worth. It doesn’t depend on your standing in the eyes of other people. A dignity culture emphasizes that all people have this sort of worth, which can’t be taken away. It’s why an insult can’t devalue you. If anything, overreacting to an offense is unseemly because it suggests you’re not confident in your worth and need to take other people’s opinions so seriously. Virtue isn’t being bold, touchy, and aggressive, but restrained, prudent, and quietly self-assured.

What we call victimhood culture combines some aspects of honor and dignity. People in a victimhood culture are like the honorable in having a high sensitivity to slight. They’re quite touchy, and always vigilant for offenses. Insults are serious business, and even unintentional slights might provoke a severe conflict. But, as in a dignity culture, people generally eschew violent vengeance in favor of relying on some authority figure or other third party. They complain to the law, to the human resources department at their corporation, to the administration at their university, or — possibly as a strategy of getting attention from one of the former — to the public at large.

The combination of high sensitivity with dependence on others encourages people to emphasize or exaggerate the severity of offenses. There’s a corresponding tendency to emphasize one’s degree of victimization, one’s vulnerability to harm, and one’s need for assistance and protection. People who air grievances are likely to appeal to such concepts as disadvantage, marginality, or trauma, while casting the conflict as a matter of oppression.

The result is that this culture also emphasizes a particular source of moral worth: victimhood. Victim identities are deserving of special care and deference. Contrariwise, the privileged are morally suspect if not deserving of outright contempt. Privilege is to victimhood as cowardice is to honor.

Offline RE

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Re: NYT Hires Editor Who Absolutely Hates "Dumbass Fu*king White People"
« Reply #226 on: August 13, 2018, 03:57:35 PM »
Perhaps you can explain why your bedmate, Surly, is exempted from all COC rules.

I can.

He runs the forum and has to put up with a lot of cheap bullshit from the peanut gallery. Plus he's the heir apparent to this whole site, if the current admin becomes unable to keep on keeping on. Plus, I know him, like him, and trust him. He might be a liberal, but he's the same liberal every day. And he supports his arguments with good data.

This post of yours, as you know, is in clear violation of the CoC too. You might ask why I put up with your crap. The answer is that you sometimes make very good comments. I'd recommend sticking to that, because this path you're on now leads to permanent banishment, and no telling how upset your internet BF GO would be about that. We'd have to ban him too, and we don't really want to ban anybody.

Want to go for broke? Double down? Make this into another pissing contest?

 I have been off-line all day, and I’m reading this on my phone while waiting forever in a doctors office.

If you’re scoring at home, Carpet talk earned her  next ban by emailing Ashvin  to complain about  The lack of white glove concierge service in re moderation. I have not checked the admin bin yet, but if what he says is true, yet another violation would make her a four time loser.

Go ahead, Carpet Talk. Double down. I will ban your ass with gusto.

Looking forward to your next post.

The world is full of places that welcome right wing fuckwittery. This ain’t one of them.

Basically it's what Eddie said, but there is more to it than that.

When anyone joins the Diner, they come in with a Clean Slate, Tabula Rasa.  Over time, Diners who contribute demonstrate  through their posting whether they are supporters of the Diner principles or detractors.

Some Diners show themselves to be very much in support of the Diner, to the point of devoting hours of their time to the thankless task of moderating a forum.  Other Diners show themselves to be detrimental to the Diner, repeatedly instigating napalm contests, insulting other Diners with pejorative adjectives and generally claiming the right to say WTF they want to say however they want to say it.  They don't have this right, anymore than you can write a letter to the NYT and expect it to get published if you repeatedly insult the editors of the NYT.

Diners who repeatedly demonstrate their value to the Diner end up as Admins, who have a lot of latitude on what they write and how they write it.  Diners who repeatedly demonstrate they are detrimental to the Diner end up Contrarians and Moderated, or if they persist even with moderation they will be banned.

I have stated all of this before in countless threads where the complaining crops up, and I have explained the CoC in detail as well, although it should be mostly CFS.  For this particular episode, the discussion is over, I am locking this thread there will be no further commentary (except by Admins, who can comment in locked threads).  To the Diners who are pushing the envelope here, I will let you know both of the Admins tasked with moderating the forum are thoroughly fed up, so if you don't want to get banned this would be a good time to STFU.


Offline Surly1

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Re: NYT Hires Editor Who Absolutely Hates "Dumbass Fu*king White People"
« Reply #227 on: August 13, 2018, 05:53:54 PM »
A great interview about a great book:
Understanding Victimhood Culture: An Interview with Bradley Campbell and Jason Manning
written by Claire Lehmann

Let's be clear. "Quillette" is A pissoir owned by one Claire Lemann, who crated it after she dropped out of he graduate program. It gained notoriety after it published some swill about o James Damore's controversial memo "Google's Ideological Echo Chamber." Little wonder Ashvin picked up on it, as Damore seems to be one of the drooling right's cause celebres.  More libertarian fart-sniffery.

Quillette in Lehmann's hands purportedly "makes arguments or presents data not in keeping with the contemporary intellectual consensus." The NYT's latest darling Bari Weiss, "regards Lehmann as one of the leaders of the Intellectual Dark Web, a group of intellectuals who are "determined to resist parroting what’s politically convenient."

Much like some posers here.

"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline K-Dog

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Re: NYT Hires Editor Who Absolutely Hates "Dumbass Fu*king White People"
« Reply #228 on: August 13, 2018, 09:35:18 PM »
Understanding Victimhood Culture: An Interview with Bradley Campbell and Jason Manning
written by Claire Lehmann

Dignity, honor, and victim.

I found it disappointing and nothing more than moralizing from the 'victim' point of view.  Clearly the authors would have a problem with someone taking eye for an eye justice in any situation regardless of how appropriate it might be.  When people do that I always wonder how hard they have to be pushed before they lose it.  To prefer manners to substance shows one can't be counted on.  That is what such extreme passivity says to me.

To be a passive dumb bunny is not virtuous.

To have the courage of a wolf but only use it when appropriate.  That is virtue.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 09:43:30 PM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline Golden Oxen

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Re: NYT Hires Editor Who Absolutely Hates "Dumbass Fu*king White People"
« Reply #229 on: September 16, 2018, 08:13:04 PM »
You will not get away in rewriting history here. MKing tried it and slunk away like the cur he proved himself to be.

Well we live and learn, it had been announced that MKing had been banned, and I notice now his member name has been completely expunged. Perhaps I'm in error but are you rewriting history, or in this case deleting it? He sure was tough on everyone with his haughty mannerisms and very true explanations of how we knew zero about oil among other topics. Of course the fact that he was completely correct about oil and was indeed an expert meant nothing in importance to his ruffling of the feathers. 
Whatever, he's gone and whether voluntarily or by force I certainly miss his commentary. Not so much the ones where he ridiculed me and bad mouthed Gold, his other comments were more to my liking. :laugh: ;D

You are convincing nobody except Golden Oxen, and be careful if you switch position in your chair; you wouldn't want to break his nose.

There I am being honored again by the worshiper in chief of our beloved founder, with an ad hom attack though I did not partake one bit in his being put in his proper place in this most revealing expose of the hate monger bully who, as his opponent duly noted has to resort to ad hom attacks when he runs out of his trying to sound like a reasoned intellect with his Thesaurus riddled blabber.

The second attack against me may I add, while merely being a spectator in this lopsided debate.

Thanks again for thinking of me Surly. Most appreciated. Let me apologize as well for admiring folks you have a dim view of; as stated many times by me, we are all different people, very different.


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