AuthorTopic: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)  (Read 9532 times)

Offline Eddie

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2018, 01:14:08 PM »
Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Libertarians eat this shit💩 up like it was Chocolate Ice Cream🍦 and not Shit💩.

RE

Yeah,  I totally get that.

The thing is that, as I've been saying long before I ever heard of Jordan Peterson, the liberal side has gone off the rails on the whole identity politics issue.  It's a fair critique, and until liberals find some honesty on that, they can't get white working class votes. That's done.

You can call Peterson every name in the book, but if you can find a single instance of him being actually wrong on the facts, please feel free to share it with me.

I've watched hours of his videos on a range of subjects, and the guy is a real scholar, and better read than anyone any one of us, or anyone we know.

He isn't even right wing. Like me, he's fairly apolitical. The special people came after him, not vice versa, and they bit off way more than they could chew.

 
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Offline Ashvin

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2018, 01:15:15 PM »
My favorite example of Peterson taking an ideologue interviewer to task:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/7QRQjrsFnR4" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/7QRQjrsFnR4</a>

Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Jordan Peterson Calls Protestors "Wannabe Totalitarians"
In the 1960s, people marched in the streets to end segregation and other forms of racial and gender discrimination. The Civil Rights Movement saw the birth of modern identity politics. Of course, back then, many people opposed the protestors. You know, people like Jordan Peterson. According to Jordan Peterson, these civil rights marchers would be labeled as "wanna be toalitarians". Fast forward 50 some years and Peterson has this to say about people who are protesting him, "ill-informed faux-virtuous pathological compassion, and effortless careless indications of your purported moral, intellectual, scientific and academic superiority to stop me from talking to three hundred of your students". Peterson is a fascist and a text book authoritarian. His fans are too dumb and brainwashed to ever admit it.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/10/academics-protest-about-jordan-peterson-

Do you form any opinions by yourself after listening to the person in question? Serious question - have you listened to any of Petersons lectures or long form interviews? If so, could you point out one or two points you are critical of?

Ideologues protesting Petersons lectures to students is nothing new. McMaster U was the quintessential example of what these ideologues have to offer - slogans of "fuck you transphobic piece of shit", air horns, white noise speakers. Petersons monk like calm in the midst of all that was nothing short of heroic.

The letter in the article you posted stated Peterson is anti climate science. This is patently false. Which leads one to wonder how much of the rest of their claims is utter bullshit. You would do well to stop listening to the ideological herds opinion of these public speakers and do some digging.

Offline Ashvin

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2018, 01:17:58 PM »
Also, I'm pretty sure Peterson has already gained some traction among 3 or 4 Diners here that we know of. That ship has sailed.

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2018, 01:21:29 PM »
Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Libertarians eat this shit💩 up like it was Chocolate Ice Cream🍦 and not Shit💩.

RE

Yeah,  I totally get that.

The thing is that, as I've been saying long before I ever heard of Jordan Peterson, the liberal side has gone off the rails on the whole identity politics issue.  It's a fair critique, and until liberals find some honesty on that, they can't get white working class votes. That's done.

You can call Peterson every name in the book, but if you can find a single instance of him being actually wrong on the facts, please feel free to share it with me.

I've watched hours of his videos on a range of subjects, and the guy is a real scholar, and better read than anyone any one of us, or anyone we know.

He isn't even right wing. Like me, he's fairly apolitical. The special people came after him, not vice versa, and they bit off way more than they could chew.
 

Feel free to Brown Nose JP all you like and watch hours of his videos.  You might wedge in some William F. Buckley videos for variety of Intellectual Fascist Rationalizations (IFR) from history.  It will improve your vocabulary if nothing else.  I personally have had enough of this shit just from what has been embedded in Diner posting.

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Offline Ashvin

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2018, 01:24:57 PM »
Oh, and the civil rights protesters weren't marching to stop people from exercising free speech or students from getting the chance to learn. These people are protesting to disallow intellectual freedom on a university campus, so the comparison is absurd and the "totalitarian" label fits them perfectly.

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2018, 01:47:10 PM »
Oh, and the civil rights protesters weren't marching to stop people from exercising free speech or students from getting the chance to learn. These people are protesting to disallow intellectual freedom on a university campus, so the comparison is absurd and the "totalitarian" label fits them perfectly.

In a world in Collapse, Totalitarians are ubiquitous.  It's a clear sign of Collapse, which you deny is underway.  The main question is which side of the Totalitarian Fence you sit on? ???

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Offline Surly1

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2018, 01:58:18 PM »
Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Libertarians eat this shit💩 up like it was Chocolate Ice Cream🍦 and not Shit💩.

RE

Yeah,  I totally get that.

The thing is that, as I've been saying long before I ever heard of Jordan Peterson, the liberal side has gone off the rails on the whole identity politics issue.  It's a fair critique, and until liberals find some honesty on that, they can't get white working class votes. That's done.

You can call Peterson every name in the book, but if you can find a single instance of him being actually wrong on the facts, please feel free to share it with me.

I've watched hours of his videos on a range of subjects, and the guy is a real scholar, and better read than anyone any one of us, or anyone we know.

He isn't even right wing. Like me, he's fairly apolitical. The special people came after him, not vice versa, and they bit off way more than they could chew.

It always amuses the fuck out of me when people claim that "the liberal side has gone off the rails on the whole identity politics issue" when the prevaricator on the Potomac has made identity politics his standard, his war cry and rallying cry! 11 lay dead and another MAGAt assailant tried to decapitate the senior leadership of the Dems last week with a series of pipe bombs. But we're supposed to feel bad because Mitch McConnell can't finish his soup, or that Gavin McInnes is going to have an event in Mamaroneck to call attention to his presence?

He's a big attacker of "political correctness," which is one of your personal hobbyhorses. "Political correctness" is a right wing epithet borrowed from analysis of communism to label assertions of rights of the traditionally dispossessed. And the people who gold all the power are ill inclined to grant any rights to anyone but themselves, so "political correctness" is what the privileged minority calls it when the oppressed are sick and tired of putting up with your shit.

Fell free to eat his shit with a spoon. I will not. You love that Peterson has criticized the use of the term "white privilege", stating that "being called out on their white privilege... and then made to suffer the consequences of the existence of that racial group and its hypothetical crimes, is... racist in its extreme"

I disagree.

And I am not going to allow Ashvin to wander back into the forum, squat, and take a healthy, Jordan Peterson shit, knowing that it will do nothing but divide the members and sow discord, any more than I will allow his spiritual lodestar to tweet about suspending "birthright citizenship" and distract voters from what the upcoming election is really about.
“The old world is dying, and the New World struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.”

Offline RE

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2018, 02:10:54 PM »
And I am not going to allow Ashvin to wander back into the forum, squat, and take a healthy, Jordan Peterson shit, knowing that it will do nothing but divide the members and sow discord, any more than I will allow his spiritual lodestar to tweet about suspending "birthright citizenship" and distract voters from what the upcoming election is really about.

I sense another trip to the Cooler is in the offing.  ;D

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Offline Ashvin

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2018, 04:11:22 PM »
Here are some hallmarks of ideological possession:

1) Judging an individual as fascist, sexist, racist, etc. without actually listening to what they are saying. (see Cathy Newman interview of Peterson for an excellent display of this).

2) Blaming every negative occurrence in society on those who don't agree with your ideology

3) Attempting to suppress or otherwise marginalize the speech of those who don't agree.

It's obvious to Eddie and I and that these hallmarks can be seen on both the radical left and right of Western society. Surly seems to think that, because a radical conservative (by some measures) is President, anything and everything on the radical left can be excused, and everyone who criticizes the left is a part of the radical right. This is exactly what the hardcore critics of Peterson think as well.

They believe it is better to completely shut down speech that is critical of the left than to risk losing the never-ending power struggle of words and ideas. This is where postmodernism comes in - when everything is viewed primarily as a battle between various groups to gain the ideological upper hand, free speech and association is seen as secondary (if that) priorities, because allowing such freedoms risk losing the battle.

RE sending me to the "Cooler" every time I write a phrase which could possibly be construed as denigrating his intelligence "on the internet" is the epitome of the above. I did not "wander back into the forum" - I was just censored from participating. I wouldn't be surprised if the mere fact of pointing this out will get me censored again. Oh well...

Offline Ashvin

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2018, 04:18:00 PM »
Ideological possession on full display. Skip to about 30 min if you want to here Peterson talk uninterrupted:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/3dSjbBmHOOE" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/3dSjbBmHOOE</a>

Offline RE

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2018, 04:29:51 PM »
RE sending me to the "Cooler" every time I write a phrase which could possibly be construed as denigrating his intelligence "on the internet" is the epitome of the above. I did not "wander back into the forum" - I was just censored from participating. I wouldn't be surprised if the mere fact of pointing this out will get me censored again. Oh well...

Complaining about the moderation policies on the Diner is also a VIOLATION of the CoC.  :icon_sunny:  So is insinuating I am stupid and don't consider the arguments from all sides fairly and with due diligence. I am a very patient guy in general.  I will in this case be Magnanimous & Kind  ;D and not send you back to the Cooler for this one.  I'm sure you can figure out what pushes my buttons and steer clear of me if you want to participate in good faith.  I can't speak for Surly of course.

Don't fuck with me Watson.  Next time I push the Ban Button on you, it's a Permanent Vacation from the Diner.

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Offline agelbert

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Another Apologist for neofascism making the talk show rounds. This shit is going to gain NO traction here.

Libertarians eat this shit💩 up like it was Chocolate Ice Cream🍦 and not Shit💩.

RE


Yeah,  I totally get that.

The thing is that, as I've been saying long before I ever heard of Jordan Peterson, the liberal side has gone off the rails on the whole identity politics issue.  It's a fair critique, and until liberals find some honesty on that, they can't get white working class votes. That's done.

You can call Peterson every name in the book, but if you can find a single instance of him being actually wrong on the facts, please feel free to share it with me.

I've watched hours of his videos on a range of subjects, and the guy is a real scholar, and better read than anyone any one of us, or anyone we know.

He isn't even right wing. Like me, he's fairly apolitical. The special people came after him, not vice versa, and they bit off way more than they could chew.

It always amuses the fuck out of me when people claim that "the liberal side has gone off the rails on the whole identity politics issue" when the prevaricator on the Potomac has made identity politics his standard, his war cry and rallying cry! 11 lay dead and another MAGAt assailant tried to decapitate the senior leadership of the Dems last week with a series of pipe bombs. But we're supposed to feel bad because Mitch McConnell can't finish his soup, or that Gavin McInnes is going to have an event in Mamaroneck to call attention to his presence?

He's a big attacker of "political correctness," which is one of your personal hobbyhorses. "Political correctness" is a right wing epithet borrowed from analysis of communism to label assertions of rights of the traditionally dispossessed. And the people who gold all the power are ill inclined to grant any rights to anyone but themselves, so "political correctness" is what the privileged minority calls it when the oppressed are sick and tired of putting up with your shit.

Fell free to eat his shit with a spoon. I will not. You love that Peterson has criticized the use of the term "white privilege", stating that "being called out on their white privilege... and then made to suffer the consequences of the existence of that racial group and its hypothetical crimes, is... racist in its extreme"

I disagree.

And I am not going to allow Ashvin to wander back into the forum, squat, and take a healthy, Jordan Peterson shit, knowing that it will do nothing but divide the members and sow discord, any more than I will allow his spiritual lodestar to tweet about suspending "birthright citizenship" and distract voters from what the upcoming election is really about.

   

Well said! 

The POS people, like Peterson, who would wholeheartedly support the elimination of Medicare and Social Security for EVERYONE, not just the "off the rails" liberals, without blinking an eye, are TEXTBOOK FASCIST ENABLERS.

I might add that a sizeable number of right wing "Christians" are okay with that SHIT. Those "Christians", are actually Antinomian Heretics. A lot of them are lawyers, too. ;D They have a not so secret love of MONEY. They will enthusiastically support ANY leader , no matter how Fascist or otherwise morally despicable, who promises to get them MORE MONEY. Virtually all those Pseudo-Christians supporting Trump ARE Antinomian Heretics. They are the bullshit artists pushing the "prosperity gospel" while they brazenly claim that they do NOT need to follow ANY moral code because, uh, JESUS "has all that covered". NO He DOESN'T!

Donald Trump and the prosperity gospel

Robert Harrington | 12:12 pm EDT October 10, 2018

Palmer Report » Analysis

When last year CNN fired sometime commentator and full time religious studies scholar Reza Aslan for tweeting that Donald Trump was a “piece of s h i t,” one was left to wonder if it was because he employed a profanity in describing the President of the United States, or merely because he committed the journalistic heresy of stating the obvious. Whichever it was, one cannot also help but wonder if CNN knew not what it did. For it was also about that time that Aslan put his perspicacious finger on the not-so-obvious reasons why “the Donald” has gathered unto himself so rabid a following, and how, after all this time, that following appears to have remained bafflingly loyal.

The good news is the aforementioned following we are concerned with here is at least confined to the pulpits and pews of white fundamentalist Christians. Were it not for Aslan, the question of why Trump should gain such popularity with such a group might remain an ostensible head scratcher. But for this recipe for Dragon Stew, Aslan actually provides us with a plausible dragon: Donald Trump is a religious cult.

That cult comes compliments of something called “the prosperity gospel.” The idea goes that the more righteous a man is, the more God blesses him with material wealth. Trump’s ostentatious trappings of wealth are the obvious proof that God must think Trump a pretty groovy guy.

Some of the cynical among us noticed that “the prosperity gospel” started to appear right around the same time that the dorsal fins of the big-haired, Rolex-wearing televangelists started to cut the water. Mansions needed sanctification, luxury cars and private jets required the consecration of Elijah’s chariots of fire. The prosperity gospel gave the perfect fit.

“But none of this … explains the most important phenomenon about white evangelicals in America,” Aslan says, “and that is this: In the span of a single election cycle, white evangelicals have gone from being the group in America that is most likely to say that a politician’s morality matters to the group that is now least likely to say that.”

In other words, the cult of personality surrounding Donald Trump has managed in a single election cycle to convince good people that doing bad things is okay. The last time we witnessed a phenomenon like that was when a community of Americans settled in a little regarded country called Guyana led by a little known evangelical named Jim Jones. This time the stakes are much, much higher.

Click here to help fund Palmer Report's editorial effort to take Donald Trump down

Be sure to follow Palmer Report on Facebook and Twitter, and sign up for our mailing list.

Robert Harrington  is an American expat living in Britain. He is a portrait painter.


https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/prosperity-gospel-donald-trump/13333/

Agelbert NOTE: The Heretical Doctrine of Demons called "Prosperity Preaching" (a principle tenet of the Antinomian Christian Heretical teaching), that the pseudo-Christians in the USA are enthralled with, is thousands of years old.

Quote
an·ti·no·mi·an
[an-ti- noh-mee- uhn]

NOUN

a person who maintains that Christians are freed from the moral law by virtue of grace as set forth in the gospel.

I have a deceased brother-in-law who worshipped monetary wealth above any Christian duty to help the disadvantaged and poor of this world. He thought it was A-OKAY to be GREEDY, as his wife (my sister, also a Mammon worshipping Pseudo-Christian) still, unfortunately for her, does.

In the Epistle II Peter in the New Testament, Peter addresses the Antinomians who claimed to be Christians. These Heretics were defined by their insistance that it was okay to sin to get more money and wantonly engage in just about any worldly lust they wanted to engage in based on a deliberate twisting of the Holy Scripture (SEE Paul: "We are saved by Grace, not works"). 

Peter makes it crystal clear that claiming to be a Christian and chasing money, comfort, power and the lusts of the flesh is HERESY. Anyone practicing it is doomed to perdition, period.

Quote
II PETER 2: 17-22

17  These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18  For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean [5] escaped from them who live in error. 19  While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20  For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21  For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22  But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 04:45:52 PM by agelbert »
Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
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if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline Ashvin

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2018, 04:48:57 PM »
Just came across a new interview with JP - I will say that, so far, it is the best interview done by someone who holds radical leftist positions. You can tell she is has read and listened to Peterson (somewhat carefully), and that she is actually listening to his responses carefully. There is an actual conversation and dialogue happening between two people who hold very different beliefs about the world.
Well done!

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Offline azozeo

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2018, 05:09:29 PM »
Ideological possession on full display. Skip to about 30 min if you want to here Peterson talk uninterrupted:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/3dSjbBmHOOE" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/3dSjbBmHOOE</a>


Stellar  :icon_sunny:  display of herd mentality Ashvin. Drive em' off the cliff, for shits & giggles.
 
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You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline Surly1

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Re: The Intellectual Dark Web (IDW)
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2018, 04:17:24 AM »

Complaining about the moderation policies on the Diner is also a VIOLATION of the CoC.  :icon_sunny:  So is insinuating I am stupid and don't consider the arguments from all sides fairly and with due diligence. I am a very patient guy in general.  I will in this case be Magnanimous & Kind  ;D and not send you back to the Cooler for this one.  I'm sure you can figure out what pushes my buttons and steer clear of me if you want to participate in good faith.  I can't speak for Surly of course.

Happy to speak for myself.

People who contribute to the Diner often post on a variety of issues. Ashvin posts on one, and one alone: the one that he knows will sow division and conflict.

I have seen this movie before, a couple of years ago when MKing, GO, JoeP and some others engaged in elaborate pearl clutching over some IP checks and went on some tear about online surveillance, conflating that with freedom of speech, etc. Always instructive to see how ideologues are keenly interested in freedom of their speech, while if yours is impinged, go fuck yourself with a hammer.

When I asked Ashvin why he disavowed his earlier writings and went to the lengths of attempting to "scrub" his online identity free of associations with topics of doom and collapse, he replied that he no longer believed those things. Which makes it interesting as to why he would be interested in posting in something called the "Doomstead Diner" and devoted to such topics. Although, as noted, he only posts on one.

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