AuthorTopic: The Religion of Libertarianism  (Read 871 times)

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Re: The Religion of Libertarianism
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2018, 07:41:48 AM »
As they say, "The only thing amerikans ever really invented was advertising". Every thing else was stolen from other peoples good ideas. Like the Constitution they took from the Iroquois confederacy.

I do remember a T-shirt on a lesbian with a short mohawk  due, that said, "Fiscally Conservative. Socially Liberal. Sexually Libertarian!". In discordian nature, I thought to myself with a chuckle, "I can get behind that. That describes me  and I think it describes a lot  of GenXers.

I think amerikans just get sucked into the advertising because it has "Liberty" in the title. With great liberty comes great responsibility. People dont want the responsibility part though.

If you want to cut through the shit, just ask a libertarian to house a mentally ill homeless person in their home. To be fair and balanced,  Both MrsC5 and myself have said that to people that identify as  "socialist". And, independently, we have both watched "good people" suddenly go full exorcist, vomit spewing. demon possessed. Confronted with actual, virtuous, social responsibility.... people dont do so well.

Lot of truth here, IMO.

My wife and I have both worked with homeless people. For short engagements. Fed homeless also through Food not Bombs, and during Occupy. It's a thankless job, and those who can do it long terms are truly saints among us.

I sure couldn't do it.

They don't do it because they are Saints.  They do it because it is a good way to make a living.  I have experience with this.  Homeless people are like Cripples, nobody likes to help them for free.  If you pay them though, they are very nice to you and respectful.  If it is Volunteer work, they get tired of you and pissed off at having to help you all the time.  Money makes a big difference here, it turns normal people into Saints.

RE

Yes, An unpleasant truth as they say.

Another that I always found interesting was the lack of the religious community present amongst these folks in very accessible areas like Boston Common where many dwell.

They collect money for charities all over the undeveloped world, yet seem to pay scant attention to these people. It's as if they blame them for their plight.

Shouldn't be criticizing since I do zero for them myself but then again I'm hardly a man of the cloth or nun.

Probably they think if they gave up the booze all would be well, but there again I have my doubts.

World and it's differing folks sure is a complicated topic.  :dontknow:

I remember growing up Catholic, and they'd regularly pass a collection plate for a third time "for the missions." Of course, that is before the Church was synonymous with a child trafficking organization. Your point about the churches overlooking the people on the street is a good one. (Although there are catholic orgs like catholic Worker and St. Vincent dePaul who do good works as well.
I've seen those people in action; and no matter what Rumpelstiltskin says, they aren't in it for the money. They have gotten a glimpse of Divine Love and compassion that passeth all understanding. It sure has hell has gotten by me.
Actually, the only unforgivable crime in the US is being poor.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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Re: The Religion of Libertarianism
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2018, 07:49:36 AM »
I remember growing up Catholic, and they'd regularly pass a collection plate for a third time "for the missions." Of course, that is before the Church was synonymous with a child trafficking organization. Your point about the churches overlooking the people on the street is a good one. (Although there are catholic orgs like catholic Worker and St. Vincent dePaul who do good works as well.
I've seen those people in action; and no matter what Rumpelstiltskin says, they aren't in it for the money. They have gotten a glimpse of Divine Love and compassion that passeth all understanding. It sure has hell has gotten by me.
Actually, the only unforgivable crime in the US is being poor.

I have never met a Catholic who helps people for free.  Of all denominations, Catholics are the most money greedy for their "charity" work.

RE
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Re: The Religion of Libertarianism
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2018, 08:01:43 AM »
I remember growing up Catholic, and they'd regularly pass a collection plate for a third time "for the missions." Of course, that is before the Church was synonymous with a child trafficking organization. Your point about the churches overlooking the people on the street is a good one. (Although there are catholic orgs like catholic Worker and St. Vincent dePaul who do good works as well.
I've seen those people in action; and no matter what Rumpelstiltskin says, they aren't in it for the money. They have gotten a glimpse of Divine Love and compassion that passeth all understanding. It sure has hell has gotten by me.
Actually, the only unforgivable crime in the US is being poor.

I have never met a Catholic who helps people for free.  Of all denominations, Catholics are the most money greedy for their "charity" work.

RE

That's your problem, not mine.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

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Re: The Religion of Libertarianism
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2018, 08:15:36 AM »
I remember growing up Catholic, and they'd regularly pass a collection plate for a third time "for the missions." Of course, that is before the Church was synonymous with a child trafficking organization. Your point about the churches overlooking the people on the street is a good one. (Although there are catholic orgs like catholic Worker and St. Vincent dePaul who do good works as well.
I've seen those people in action; and no matter what Rumpelstiltskin says, they aren't in it for the money. They have gotten a glimpse of Divine Love and compassion that passeth all understanding. It sure has hell has gotten by me.
Actually, the only unforgivable crime in the US is being poor.

I have never met a Catholic who helps people for free.  Of all denominations, Catholics are the most money greedy for their "charity" work.

RE

That's your problem, not mine.

Not my problem.  Just my lifetime experience.

RE
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Offline Eddie

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Re: The Religion of Libertarianism
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2018, 08:29:09 AM »
This a town where homeless people can become famous, write best-selling books, and have movies made about them after they're dead.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Cochran



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Eighner

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sXvwFdTTwhI&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/sXvwFdTTwhI&fs=1</a>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaze_Foley

There are stories written about the creativity involved with the process of "flying a sign".

You might see something like the usual "disabled vet", "anything helps" or "God Bless".....you might  also see "Will Work For Caviar".

Nowadays it's much more common to see vets on walkers, sporting artificial limbs. We also still have a recognizable cadre of bums who came here in the immediate aftermath of Katrina, from New Orleans, and never left.

Austin is a town where the weather suits your clothes, and it's a liberal, generous population.

Homeless people don't starve here. Panhandling is an art form and a way of life for some people.

Bringing a homeless person into my home is NOT something I'd do. I'd bet a worthless greenback that any of you who has done that ended up with it working out badly (for you, not the homeless person).  There are reasons people end up homeless other than lack of rent money.

I've spent enough time in my life around drunks and addicts, and I understand the risks of befriending them. I can feel for them, but I have definite boundaries. I have trust issues.

I've let people I do trust live in my home ( I have one living here for free now) to help them get past a tight spot in their lives. I have, on occasion, put friends up for years. And my house is open to my family as a refuge of last resort, always.

It's very hard, usually completely impossible, to help someone who has fallen through the cracks into homelessness. It's a saintly mission, but it's also one that usually involves some naiveté that eventually gets washed away by a river of reality.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 11:17:34 AM by Eddie »
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Offline g

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Re: The Religion of Libertarianism
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2018, 08:33:28 AM »
I remember growing up Catholic, and they'd regularly pass a collection plate for a third time "for the missions." Of course, that is before the Church was synonymous with a child trafficking organization. Your point about the churches overlooking the people on the street is a good one. (Although there are catholic orgs like catholic Worker and St. Vincent dePaul who do good works as well.
I've seen those people in action; and no matter what Rumpelstiltskin says, they aren't in it for the money. They have gotten a glimpse of Divine Love and compassion that passeth all understanding. It sure has hell has gotten by me.
Actually, the only unforgivable crime in the US is being poor.

I have never met a Catholic who helps people for free.  Of all denominations, Catholics are the most money greedy for their "charity" work.

RE

That's your problem, not mine.

Not my problem.  Just my lifetime experience.

RE

Just guessing, but Catholics are probably the poorest denomination, in the states anyway.

True in Boston area for sure. The Irish and Italian areas are poorer than others of the whites. Black areas very poor as well. Don't know where they all fit religious wise. 

Offline Eddie

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Re: The Religion of Libertarianism
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2018, 09:51:41 AM »
As I mentioned... C5 drinking.

It has been a long, strange path for me. The better part of me once used to house homeless people. That ended badly.It seemed god wasnt interested in fulfilling his obligations. That dark place taught me not to judge others because we all face the dark place of our own hypocrisies and weakness. One more hit and I eventually went full Dark Side. I eventually hit "Fuck all ya all". That nearly killed me. I had to come back to some semblance of light. There is a quote of Solomon, "Neither be too good nor too evil. Why destroy yourself".

Through it all, I learned the complexity of moral judgement.

And that leads to this. Youtube suggested I might like This. I went, "Fuck, Yah. Its awesome."

No, Really. I just revealed my soul to strangers simply because I found a cool song.... but that is me.... drinking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zfYO9sZjrE

Its a very unusual cover of one of my favorite "Angry" songs, when I am angry about other peoples hypocrisy. Its the original song I was listening to when hooked up with 3 bisexual chicks. That may sound awesome but it was one of the worst experiences of my life. They were pretty judgy.... especially when they were high.

I just told you all this personal stuff.... because that is one awesome cover. Go listen.

Not quite as good as this one. My favorite cover of all time. The song I think of when thinking about MrsC5.


   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_NpxTWbovE
The first one , the cover of The Pot.....just a really GOOD band there, really tight and musical. I just don't often listen to that kind of high energy stuff. I've never listened to much Tool so I ran the original too.

I'm still digesting how I feel about it. It drew me in and I found myself listening to another Tool song that followed on utoob. But then I tore myself away before I got sucked in any further. Rock and roll is the devil's music, LOL. Got to be careful.

The second song  is very powerful of course. Who wouldn't be blown away by that one?  Something that might find its way on to my playlist.

I found myself thinking about songs that remind me of my partner in life and mother of my children. She would probably roll her eyes at most of my possible choices, down-to-earth strong woman that she is.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/k49yMJE8jyg&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/k49yMJE8jyg&fs=1</a>

I like the Aretha Franklin version fine, but this is the cover that speaks to me.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 09:58:20 AM by Eddie »
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Offline Eddie

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Re: The Religion of Libertarianism
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2018, 01:28:06 PM »
As I mentioned... C5 drinking.

It has been a long, strange path for me. The better part of me once used to house homeless people. That ended badly.It seemed god wasnt interested in fulfilling his obligations. That dark place taught me not to judge others because we all face the dark place of our own hypocrisies and weakness. One more hit and I eventually went full Dark Side. I eventually hit "Fuck all ya all". That nearly killed me. I had to come back to some semblance of light. There is a quote of Solomon, "Neither be too good nor too evil. Why destroy yourself".

Through it all, I learned the complexity of moral judgement.

And that leads to this. Youtube suggested I might like This. I went, "Fuck, Yah. Its awesome."

No, Really. I just revealed my soul to strangers simply because I found a cool song.... but that is me.... drinking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zfYO9sZjrE

Its a very unusual cover of one of my favorite "Angry" songs, when I am angry about other peoples hypocrisy. Its the original song I was listening to when hooked up with 3 bisexual chicks. That may sound awesome but it was one of the worst experiences of my life. They were pretty judgy.... especially when they were high.

I just told you all this personal stuff.... because that is one awesome cover. Go listen.

Not quite as good as this one. My favorite cover of all time. The song I think of when thinking about MrsC5.


   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_NpxTWbovE

K.D. Lang is playing the Paramount here Tuesday night. I bought some tickets. I've never seen her live. I expect it'll be an excellent show.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: The Religion of Libertarianism
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2018, 01:46:42 PM »
As I mentioned... C5 drinking.

It has been a long, strange path for me. The better part of me once used to house homeless people. That ended badly.It seemed god wasnt interested in fulfilling his obligations. That dark place taught me not to judge others because we all face the dark place of our own hypocrisies and weakness. One more hit and I eventually went full Dark Side. I eventually hit "Fuck all ya all". That nearly killed me. I had to come back to some semblance of light. There is a quote of Solomon, "Neither be too good nor too evil. Why destroy yourself".

Through it all, I learned the complexity of moral judgement.

And that leads to this. Youtube suggested I might like This. I went, "Fuck, Yah. Its awesome."

No, Really. I just revealed my soul to strangers simply because I found a cool song.... but that is me.... drinking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zfYO9sZjrE

Its a very unusual cover of one of my favorite "Angry" songs, when I am angry about other peoples hypocrisy. Its the original song I was listening to when hooked up with 3 bisexual chicks. That may sound awesome but it was one of the worst experiences of my life. They were pretty judgy.... especially when they were high.

I just told you all this personal stuff.... because that is one awesome cover. Go listen.

Not quite as good as this one. My favorite cover of all time. The song I think of when thinking about MrsC5.


   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_NpxTWbovE
Tool and rage against the machine rock for getting shit done. I burn out on it these days after a half dozen songs.
Heather was a hardcore alt country junkie. Ive grown into being a fan myself. So much of the catalogue still hurts too much to listen to. Nobody more then this guy. a fave of my partner, A great song writer.
Cheers,

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4FIw7ERlVxU?list=RD4FIw7ERlVxU&amp;amp;ecver=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/4FIw7ERlVxU?list=RD4FIw7ERlVxU&amp;amp;ecver=1</a>
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline Eddie

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Re: The Religion of Libertarianism
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2018, 02:17:10 PM »
As I mentioned... C5 drinking.

It has been a long, strange path for me. The better part of me once used to house homeless people. That ended badly.It seemed god wasnt interested in fulfilling his obligations. That dark place taught me not to judge others because we all face the dark place of our own hypocrisies and weakness. One more hit and I eventually went full Dark Side. I eventually hit "Fuck all ya all". That nearly killed me. I had to come back to some semblance of light. There is a quote of Solomon, "Neither be too good nor too evil. Why destroy yourself".

Through it all, I learned the complexity of moral judgement.

And that leads to this. Youtube suggested I might like This. I went, "Fuck, Yah. Its awesome."

No, Really. I just revealed my soul to strangers simply because I found a cool song.... but that is me.... drinking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zfYO9sZjrE

Its a very unusual cover of one of my favorite "Angry" songs, when I am angry about other peoples hypocrisy. Its the original song I was listening to when hooked up with 3 bisexual chicks. That may sound awesome but it was one of the worst experiences of my life. They were pretty judgy.... especially when they were high.

I just told you all this personal stuff.... because that is one awesome cover. Go listen.

Not quite as good as this one. My favorite cover of all time. The song I think of when thinking about MrsC5.


   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_NpxTWbovE
Tool and rage against the machine rock for getting shit done. I burn out on it these days after a half dozen songs.
Heather was a hardcore alt country junkie. Ive grown into being a fan myself. So much of the catalogue still hurts too much to listen to. Nobody more then this guy. a fave of my partner, A great song writer.
Cheers,

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4FIw7ERlVxU?list=RD4FIw7ERlVxU&amp;amp;ecver=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/4FIw7ERlVxU?list=RD4FIw7ERlVxU&amp;amp;ecver=1</a>

That's a very fine song, which I'd never heard. Thank you.

I waited for years to see if this old favorite of mine would ever make it on to the net. I never thought it would, but it did, and I'm glad (I thanked the guy who posted it , as you can see).

It's way over-produced, with too much orchestral shmaltz to suit my tastes. I saw it done live in '73 or '74 and it was much more raw and real.

I expect somebody will record this forgotten Austin gemstone, and make it a hit someday. Alan Jackson, I hope you're listening. I mentioned it to Willie already (on his blog anyway), and he must have taken a pass out of deference to Milton, who traded the night life in to become a man of the cloth.

It's the last song on this album. You have to go to 37:50 to get to it.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/XuhIkDbK4us&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/XuhIkDbK4us&fs=1</a>
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Agent Graves

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Re: The Religion of Libertarianism
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2018, 10:15:32 PM »
As they say, "The only thing amerikans ever really invented was advertising". Every thing else was stolen from other peoples good ideas. Like the Constitution they took from the Iroquois confederacy.

I do remember a T-shirt on a lesbian with a short mohawk  due, that said, "Fiscally Conservative. Socially Liberal. Sexually Libertarian!". In discordian nature, I thought to myself with a chuckle, "I can get behind that. That describes me  and I think it describes a lot  of GenXers.

I think amerikans just get sucked into the advertising because it has "Liberty" in the title. With great liberty comes great responsibility. People dont want the responsibility part though.

If you want to cut through the shit, just ask a libertarian to house a mentally ill homeless person in their home. To be fair and balanced,  Both MrsC5 and myself have said that to people that identify as  "socialist". And, independently, we have both watched "good people" suddenly go full exorcist, vomit spewing. demon possessed. Confronted with actual, virtuous, social responsibility.... people dont do so well.

Lot of truth here, IMO.

My wife and I have both worked with homeless people. For short engagements. Fed homeless also through Food not Bombs, and during Occupy. It's a thankless job, and those who can do it long terms are truly saints among us.

I sure couldn't do it.

They don't do it because they are Saints.  They do it because it is a good way to make a living.  I have experience with this.  Homeless people are like Cripples, nobody likes to help them for free.  If you pay them though, they are very nice to you and respectful.  If it is Volunteer work, they get tired of you and pissed off at having to help you all the time.  Money makes a big difference here, it turns normal people into Saints.

RE

Yes, An unpleasant truth as they say.

Another that I always found interesting was the lack of the religious community present amongst these folks in very accessible areas like Boston Common where many dwell.

They collect money for charities all over the undeveloped world, yet seem to pay scant attention to these people. It's as if they blame them for their plight.

Shouldn't be criticizing since I do zero for them myself but then again I'm hardly a man of the cloth or nun.

Probably they think if they gave up the booze all would be well, but there again I have my doubts.

World and it's differing folks sure is a complicated topic.  :dontknow:

I remember growing up Catholic, and they'd regularly pass a collection plate for a third time "for the missions." Of course, that is before the Church was synonymous with a child trafficking organization. Your point about the churches overlooking the people on the street is a good one. (Although there are catholic orgs like catholic Worker and St. Vincent dePaul who do good works as well.
I've seen those people in action; and no matter what Rumpelstiltskin says, they aren't in it for the money. They have gotten a glimpse of Divine Love and compassion that passeth all understanding. It sure has hell has gotten by me.
Actually, the only unforgivable crime in the US is being poor.

Give til it hurts in churches, raising money for missionary travels alway seems a lot like a free adventure for someone, but the Sisters of Charity live up to the name and more. Recognizable by the white sari with blue stripes that Mother Theresa wore, these are girls who at about 18 yrs old forsake having a family or even a fling; to wipe asses, bathe sores, make up beds etc.
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