AuthorTopic: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often  (Read 844 times)

Offline Eddie

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2018, 08:00:43 AM »
Go back and read what I wrote in my first comment. It is certainly true that black people are treated unkindly by police. And it's true that part of that equation is what Surly refers to as institutional racism.

But there is way more to it, and that part is ignored by the social justice warriors.

Cops deal with lots of black people in some really, really bad neighborhoods. Most of these black people are just decent hardworking people....but a measurable number are well-armed gangbangers, thugs and killers. Thieves and low level drug dealers. Bad alcoholics and crazy people who talk to themselves in angry voices.

This creates a high fear level with cops, who sometimes die young trying to do their jobs in these neighborhoods. Fear leads to an attitude of "the best defense is an overwhelming demonstration of force"...Tasers and shooting from the hip.  There is some racism, sure. Cops are recruited from the working class, and the white ones are often racists. So are a lot of hispanics. But even black cops come down hard on the denizens of the ghetto. It's about self-preservation and commanding respect from bad actors who only understand force.

And these days nobody likes cops. I don't. I got stopped and got a DWI, which I beat in court. It only cost me $12,000 USD, and a shitload of my time. The criminal justice system is a source of revenue for the government.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2018, 08:05:36 AM »
Quote from: Eddie
I recognize that what you and Surly call white privilege does exist.

But boards of corporations, racist make-up notwithstanding, are not where Trump is building his base. None of the white people impacted by our race policies here are candidates to sit on corporate boards. White privilege does not flow equally to all whites.

There is a type of glass ceiling racism in the corporate world, which greatly involves privilege, but it isn't there just  because those people are white.

FWIW, Eddie, I think what I see as white privilege DOES flow equally to white people. I confers a certain freedom from, say, summary execution. Which seems to be worth more and more these days.

I think what you are talking about is CLASS. And it is that distinction from which the elites try mightily to distract us, using race as a primary cudgel.

As soon as people talk about reassessing priorities or interfering with the neoliberal order (privatization), these people get demonized. They've come hammer-and-tong for Ocasio-Cortez,  the Washington Postís provides plenty of negative coverage of  Ben Jealous, running against Republican Larry Hogan for Maryland Governor. Every time a common sense idea opposing the continued looting is floated, the elites nod and smile, and their hired stenographers spring into action. It is as predicable as sunrise.

The elites will be perfectly content for most of us to die off, especially after the machines are in place to assure their comfort.

Class struggles and race struggles are deeply intertwined, but a white guy wearing an Izod and Italian loafers who gets stopped by cops driving a new Tesla is not treated like a tattooed white guy who gets stopped driving a clapped out Honda Civic with a cannabis decal. I'm busy, but I'm going to come back to his one. I want to argue.



« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 08:22:44 AM by Eddie »
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Offline RE

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2018, 08:25:47 AM »
I'm going to come back to his one. I want to argue.

You came to the right place for that.

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Online Surly1

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2018, 08:28:17 AM »
Go back and read what I wrote in my first comment. It is certainly true that black people are treated unkindly by police. And it's true that part of that equation is what Surly refers to as institutional racism.

But there is way more to it, and that part is ignored by the social justice warriors.

Cops deal with lots of black people in some really, really bad neighborhoods. Most of these black people are just decent hardworking people....but a measurable number are well-armed gangbangers, thugs and killers. Thieves and low level drug dealers. Bad alcoholics and crazy people who talk to themselves in angry voices.

This creates a high fear level with cops, who sometimes die young trying to do their jobs in these neighborhoods. Fear leads to an attitude of "the best defense is an overwhelming demonstration of force"...Tasers and shooting from the hip.  There is some racism, sure. Cops are recruited from the working class, and the white ones are often racists. So are a lot of hispanics. But even black cops come down hard on the denizens of the ghetto. It's about self-preservation and commanding respect from bad actors who only understand force.

And these days nobody likes cops. I don't. I got stopped and got a DWI, which I beat in court. It only cost me $12,000 USD, and a shitload of my time. The criminal justice system is a source of revenue for the government.

No argument at all.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZteDlU0GXfs" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ZteDlU0GXfs</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ls-868BO1dc" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Ls-868BO1dc</a>
This one is apparently for criminal jaywalking. Some serious gangbanging there.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ddC2Bs9ZIjU" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ddC2Bs9ZIjU</a>
And this one is just in time for the Dr. Blasey ford hearings.

Holders of property always have excuses for thug cops. This entire government is designed for the protection and preservation of property and its holders. Which is why the guy driving a Tesla gets a pass, and Neck Tattoo gets tazed.

That's simple. "Equal justice under the law" comes down to just how much justice you can afford.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Online Surly1

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2018, 08:29:50 AM »
And it's not just for white cops anymore, as well.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/hip1YYYgTvE" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/hip1YYYgTvE</a>
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2018, 08:35:08 AM »
Holders of property always have excuses for thug cops. This entire government is designed for the protection and preservation of property and its holders. Which is why the guy driving a Tesla gets a pass, and Neck Tattoo gets tazed.

That's simple. "Equal justice under the law" comes down to just how much justice you can afford.

Quote of the Month!

RE
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Offline Eddie

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2018, 08:38:26 AM »
So I want to try to make one more small point, but I think it's a critical point.

What white liberals THINK about white privilege does NOT matter. You think all white people are equally white privileged. I get that.

To some degree you're probably right. I would argue that there are plenty of nuances. Either way, we aren't the real problem, you and I.  I'm not shooting black people or going to white power rallies, and neither are you. We are both respectful to pretty much everyone.

But it matters much MORE what the white redneck underclass thinks, as far as how this whole racial injustice thing you're so concerned about works out in the long run. If you don't think the white underclass is not really angry about Affirmative Action and the other perceived special treatment given to ethnic minorities and all the "special" people, you are delusional.

And what THEY think is what is going to propel us (or already has propelled us) into fascism. Believe it. It's happening.

Europe has been, for the last generation, somewhat insulated from this...but that is changing rapidly. I knew it would.  The perceived greater acceptance of immigrants and minorities has been a demographic anomaly. All Europe needed to get to full-blown racism was more Africans, and now they have enough to make their own storm-trooper class jealous and angry.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2018, 08:48:23 AM »
But it matters much MORE what the white redneck underclass thinks, as far as how this whole racial injustice thing you're so concerned about works out in the long run. If you don't think the white underclass is not really angry about Affirmative Action and the other perceived special treatment given to ethnic minorities and all the "special" people, you are delusional.

So what can you do to get the White Trash back?  Cancel Affirmative Action?  Make Gay Sex illegal?  Any of the things the proto-Nazis want would get you a huge backlash from the Black & Latino underclass, along with the LGBTQ cohort.

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Offline K-Dog

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2018, 08:55:00 AM »
Holders of property always have excuses for thug cops. This entire government is designed for the protection and preservation of property and its holders. Which is why the guy driving a Tesla gets a pass, and Neck Tattoo gets tazed.

That's simple. "Equal justice under the law" comes down to just how much justice you can afford.

Quote of the Month!

RE

At the end of the day we all seek justice.  Mo money mo justice!  As it goes I have to go seek some justice right now.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline Eddie

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2018, 09:41:52 AM »
Well, it would help if the leaders on the liberal side were oriented toward being the party of the lower economic classes, rather than the party of the special people who deserve special treatment.

The Republican party didn't have to do anything much to attract the poor white people. They ended up voting red (how did Republicans become the reds, anyway?) because the blue party abandoned them.

Even now, they (seemingly inexplicably) vote against their own interests. They clearly do this, and it's because they now think of the GOP as the party of the whites. It's sad to me. Delusional even.

Even if the Democrats get power, and manage to take the country very socialist (compared to what we have now, not compared to Soviet Union) I think they will have trouble getting the white working stiffs back. they shouldn't have let labor unions get legislated out of business...but they did.

I see us going socialist, if the current pendulum keeps swinging to austerity and wealth inequality, because there will be a hell of a backlash....but the world might not last that long, dunno.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2018, 10:41:01 AM »
Holders of property always have excuses for thug cops. This entire government is designed for the protection and preservation of property and its holders. Which is why the guy driving a Tesla gets a pass, and Neck Tattoo gets tazed.

That's simple. "Equal justice under the law" comes down to just how much justice you can afford.

Quote of the Month!

RE

This is knee jerk classism at it's finest, assuming that part about property was leveled at me.

 I have no need or desire to make excuses for cops. I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, and I've been a fugitive from justice for some petty crime or another for my entire life.

 I used to brag I never got apprehended or sent to jail, but now I can only brag I've never been convicted. They did manage to suspend my drivers license for 180 days.

That happens to 93% of people charged with DWI here locally (guilty or not), another sign that American blind justice is about extorting money from people.

I just recognize that there are reasons why cops, who are mostly not people stolen away from the aerospace industry, use violence as a tool. It is what it is. It can't change much until their working environment changes for the better, and that will never happen.





« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 10:45:51 AM by Eddie »
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2018, 10:57:14 AM »
The best way to deal with cop violence in the hood is to get the fuck out of the hood.

I recognize that not everyone can do that...but a lot more people could if they weren't completely programmed to believe they can't. Some people do, though, and they are the wise ones. That leaves the hood with a higher population of thugs, though.

Not all social problems can be legislated out of existence. Culture and belief systems trump graduating high school. Selling drugs and gang-banging  is more glamorous by far than working some shit job to save a little money.

If the cops roust you, you can't resist. You can't run, and if you're black, you shouldn't be risking carrying a gun, even if you have license.

Most of these cop beatings begin with the beat-ee serving a cop some attitude. I know that isn't always the case, but it IS the case most of the time.  It's toilet training for hood rats to mouth off at cops. Proves their manhood. But not conducive to survival.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 11:08:38 AM by Eddie »
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2018, 11:08:25 AM »

 I used to brag I never got apprehended or sent to jail, but now I can only brag I've never been convicted. They did manage to suspend my drivers license for 180 days.

Beat you.  Never apprehended, never sent to jail, never convicted even for a misdemeanor.  In fact I think there are only 3 driving violations on my record, one speeding ticket right after I got my license on the way to a Bob Dylan concert in Boston, one missed Weigh Station in Tennessee driving the big rig and one missed stop sign (I didn't miss it, totally bogus) in Wisconson.  No DWIs, never had a license suspended.  I am so squeaky clean its hard to believe after more than 40 years given the way I live my life. lol.

To the point here though,if I ever did have this problem, spending $12K for legal defense and getting out from under is a bit high on my budgetary list now (that would buy me a hydraulic lift for SaVANnah AND a high powered Ewz Trike), and in most periods of my life I couldn't have afforded that.  You got off because you are $RICH$.  Money buys you out of shit like that.


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Offline Eddie

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2018, 11:11:52 AM »
If I hadn't had my professional license to worry about, I'd have gotten off much cheaper.

I paid 3K to a 2nd attorney to deal with my state board (although ultimately that attorney did nothing, since I beat the rap) and I paid 2K just to have my record expunged. My lofty position cost me more, not less.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Online Surly1

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Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2018, 11:24:52 AM »
Holders of property always have excuses for thug cops. This entire government is designed for the protection and preservation of property and its holders. Which is why the guy driving a Tesla gets a pass, and Neck Tattoo gets tazed.

That's simple. "Equal justice under the law" comes down to just how much justice you can afford.

Quote of the Month!

RE

This is knee jerk classism at it's finest, assuming that part about property was leveled at me.

 I have no need or desire to make excuses for cops. I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, and I've been a fugitive from justice for some petty crime or another for my entire life.

 I used to brag I never got apprehended or sent to jail, but now I can only brag I've never been convicted. They did manage to suspend my drivers license for 180 days.

That happens to 93% of people charged with DWI here locally (guilty or not), another sign that American blind justice is about extorting money from people.

I just recognize that there are reasons why cops, who are mostly not people stolen away from the aerospace industry, use violence as a tool. It is what it is. It can't change much until their working environment changes for the better, and that will never happen.

I also own property. So does RE. My point was more global, but if the shoe fits.

"Knee jerk classism" is the sort of epithet that the well off fire at the oppressed, much like "political correctness" and "social justice warrior" at about the time the oppressed get sick and tired of putting up with their shit. My OP expresses the point of the political inception of this joint. The last thing the powdered wig crowd wanted was "democracy." That was synonymous with mob rule. Adams was terrified that the mob would vote themselves "debt jubilees." So let's not kid ourselves.

In re, "another sign that American blind justice is about extorting money from people. "
I refer you to fee mining in the inner cities, Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickled and Dimed," and asset forfeiture at various levels.

I just recognize that there are reasons why cops, who are mostly not people stolen away from the aerospace industry, use violence as a tool. It is what it is. It can't change much until their working environment changes for the better, and that will never happen.

We could try better training. We could make it a dischargeable offense without retirement benefits to fail to employ a video camera. We could disconnect the "justice" system form the private prison system and remove the profit motive from the market for slave labor. We could lift the ceiling on IQ for hiring cops (can't have cops asking questions or questioning the system.) Would do with fewer white nationalists and assorted nazis in police uniform. there are plenty of things we could do.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

 

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