AuthorTopic: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often  (Read 938 times)

Offline Ashvin

  • Contrarian
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 2655
    • View Profile
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2018, 01:26:02 AM »
Well, it would help if the leaders on the liberal side were oriented toward being the party of the lower economic classes, rather than the party of the special people who deserve special treatment.

The Republican party didn't have to do anything much to attract the poor white people. They ended up voting red (how did Republicans become the reds, anyway?) because the blue party abandoned them.

Even now, they (seemingly inexplicably) vote against their own interests. They clearly do this, and it's because they now think of the GOP as the party of the whites. It's sad to me. Delusional even.

Even if the Democrats get power, and manage to take the country very socialist (compared to what we have now, not compared to Soviet Union) I think they will have trouble getting the white working stiffs back. they shouldn't have let labor unions get legislated out of business...but they did.

I see us going socialist, if the current pendulum keeps swinging to austerity and wealth inequality, because there will be a hell of a backlash....but the world might not last that long, dunno.

This hits the nail on the head.

Trump really didn't win the election, Clinton lost it - the leaders on the left descended into pure identity politics and they offered nothing else to their constituents - either you play the game of identity politics, and you play to WIN, or you have no meaning in life. Refusing to frame some issue, ANY issue, as a battleground between collective identities, or worse, trying to introduce some nuance and hard facts into the discussion, is tantamount to racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. Many people recognized the absurdity of this game and chose to sit on the bench - hence Trump stealing the election.

Eddie wants to veer outside the box of identity politics - he wants to put some context and nuance into the discussion of cops killing people. It can't be as simple as institutional racism - everyone knows this. However the game of identity politics does not allow for complexities or under-simplifications - it's sexism, racism, classism or nothing at all. A failure of imagination indeed, and a fear of confronting the complexity of life. No "solution" to the problem will be good enough, because the ideology demands an ongoing narrative of group struggle. Data points will continue to be cherry picked to tow the line.

And also, private ownership of property. Just throw that in there to cover all the collectivist talking points...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/PfH8IG7Awk0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/PfH8IG7Awk0</a>

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 15958
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2018, 05:51:11 AM »
Well, it would help if the leaders on the liberal side were oriented toward being the party of the lower economic classes, rather than the party of the special people who deserve special treatment.

The Republican party didn't have to do anything much to attract the poor white people. They ended up voting red (how did Republicans become the reds, anyway?) because the blue party abandoned them.

Even now, they (seemingly inexplicably) vote against their own interests. They clearly do this, and it's because they now think of the GOP as the party of the whites. It's sad to me. Delusional even.

Even if the Democrats get power, and manage to take the country very socialist (compared to what we have now, not compared to Soviet Union) I think they will have trouble getting the white working stiffs back. they shouldn't have let labor unions get legislated out of business...but they did.

I see us going socialist, if the current pendulum keeps swinging to austerity and wealth inequality, because there will be a hell of a backlash....but the world might not last that long, dunno.

This hits the nail on the head.

Trump really didn't win the election, Clinton lost it - the leaders on the left descended into pure identity politics and they offered nothing else to their constituents - either you play the game of identity politics, and you play to WIN, or you have no meaning in life. Refusing to frame some issue, ANY issue, as a battleground between collective identities, or worse, trying to introduce some nuance and hard facts into the discussion, is tantamount to racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. Many people recognized the absurdity of this game and chose to sit on the bench - hence Trump stealing the election.

Eddie wants to veer outside the box of identity politics - he wants to put some context and nuance into the discussion of cops killing people. It can't be as simple as institutional racism - everyone knows this. However the game of identity politics does not allow for complexities or under-simplifications - it's sexism, racism, classism or nothing at all. A failure of imagination indeed, and a fear of confronting the complexity of life. No "solution" to the problem will be good enough, because the ideology demands an ongoing narrative of group struggle. Data points will continue to be cherry picked to tow the line.

And also, private ownership of property. Just throw that in there to cover all the collectivist talking points...


I know exactly who this is aimed at, you hired house hypocrite.

723 people have been shot and killed by police in 2018 as of 830. 987 people were fatally shot by police in 2017. As of a week ago, there have been 15 more fatal shootings this year than at the same time last year. No "structural racism" here in this, the best of all possible worlds.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/police-shootings-2018/?utm_term=.966abb7e7bab

But I'm sure those are just "data points cherry picked to tow the line." By all means, take your first opportunity to communicate your heartfelt sanctimony to the family of a victim. I would pay to see that.

And let's take a moment to honor those true believers like Dr. Pangloss here who decry "identity politics" while ignoring the fact that the steaming turd that is what is left of the Republican party is DEFINED by identity politics. What indeed is Trumpism but the perfect distillation of racial politics, dog-whistles, and coded messages now brought into the open and weaponized? With open warfare against brown people including de-citizenization.

But you just keep dancing Mr. Bojangles, dance. The air is thick with irony.

And you never did answer the questions about "Picturing Christ."
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 38291
    • View Profile
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2018, 06:00:32 AM »
But you just keep dancing Mr. Bojangles, dance. The air is thick with irony.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/e-LVXR6rjXs" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/e-LVXR6rjXs</a>

Quote
And you never did answer the questions about "Picturing Christ."


RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Ashvin

  • Contrarian
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 2655
    • View Profile
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2018, 06:33:48 AM »
I know exactly who this is aimed at, you hired house hypocrite.

Instead of sticking in the word "hired" when someone is taking you to task, why don't you try and posit an explanation of how I came to be paid by the alt-right establishment to drop a few posts on the Doomstead Diner questioning the radical left ideology. You won't do it, because you would be forced to see how absurd that allegation is while you type out the words.

Quote
723 people have been shot and killed by police in 2018 as of 830. 987 people were fatally shot by police in 2017. As of a week ago, there have been 15 more fatal shootings this year than at the same time last year. No "structural racism" here in this, the best of all possible worlds.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/police-shootings-2018/?utm_term=.966abb7e7bab

But I'm sure those are just "data points cherry picked to tow the line."

Yes, OF COURSE this is cherry picking data points, IF you are using them to support a hypothesis (using that word very loosely) that cops are shooting people because they are almost all racist. But it's even worse than cherry picking, because taking a data set which started in 2015 and using it as evidence of anything is premature. Or worse yet disingenuous, if you are smart enough to know that and frequently decry economists and pundits who use similar tactics to show a healthy economy.

What's worse still is pretending that the first link that comes up when scrolling down the page of the article you posted doesn't exist:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/fatal-police-shootings-of-unarmed-people-have-significantly-declined-experts-say/2018/05/03/d5eab374-4349-11e8-8569-26fda6b404c7_story.html?utm_term=.e461ac024474
"The number of deadly police shootings of unarmed people has generally declined since 2015 even as the tally of fatal shootings by law enforcement is on pace to hit nearly 1,000 for the fourth year in a row, according to data gathered by The Washington Post.

Fatal shootings of unarmed black men — such as the high-profile case in March of Stephon Clark in Sacramento — are among the kinds of killings that have fallen. Criminologists said the downturn in the number of cases and their analysis of the data indicate that evidence of racial bias by police who shoot and kill unarmed blacks has also declined but not disappeared.

“These trends mark significant changes,” said Geoff Alpert, a professor in the department of criminology and criminal justice at the University of South Carolina who has been reviewing and studying the data at The Post’s request. “What we don’t understand yet is what’s causing these numbers to move downward.”


Yeah, no shit we don't understand what caused them to move downward, just as we don't understand what caused them to move upward in the first place.

Quote
By all means, take your first opportunity to communicate your heartfelt sanctimony to the family of a victim. I would pay to see that.

Do you think families of police shooting victims would be comforted when being told that all their pain and suffering was the cause of institutional racism or the private ownership of property? That there was a cohort of political activists taking up "their cause" for them? Most wouldn't, because most can detect utter BS when it is fed to them. They can also detect feigned compassion for their plights.

Again, this is primarily why Clinton lost.

Quote
And let's take a moment to honor those true believers like Dr. Pangloss here who decry "identity politics" while ignoring the fact that the steaming turd that is what is left of the Republican party is DEFINED by identity politics. What indeed is Trumpism but the perfect distillation of racial politics, dog-whistles, and coded messages now brought into the open and weaponized? With open warfare against brown people including de-citizenization.

My perspective, unlike your ideology, does not prevent me from criticizing the Republican party and the identity politics they play. Yours prevents you from seeing it on the left. The difference is, as you say, people on the right usually don't deny they are using identity politics, it is indeed all out in the open with them. They don't feign compassion for the immigrants they want to keep or shove out or the minorities they want to take the country back from - their hatred, fear and resentment is a point of pride. On the left it is a point of confusion and denial, even though it's still worn on their sleeves.

Quote
And you never did answer the questions about "Picturing Christ."

What questions about "Picturing Christ"? How are you possibly trying to connect a brief blog I created to anything being discussed here? Is this a part of your theory of how I came to be "hired"? Do explain, if you possibly can...

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 15958
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2018, 04:35:03 PM »

Quote
And you never did answer the questions about "Picturing Christ."

What questions about "Picturing Christ"? How are you possibly trying to connect a brief blog I created to anything being discussed here?

Blurdyblurdyblur.

It has nothing to do with the topic, ideologue. I'll give you credit for displaying right wing attribute #1: projection. Wingnuts ALWAYs accuse others of that for which they are guilty. You have drifted so far to the right that I'm surprised the sun shines where you are.

The reason I brought up the consistently avoided topic of you failed blog, and the disavowal of all of your previous writings, is to underline your moral vacuity. You took it all down (and attempted to erase history) so it wouldn't fuck up your legal career. A point you have studiously avoided, since you became Mammon's gobblecock. For some reason, you've decided to advance talking points for the people who would kick your mom, fist your toddler and burn a cross in the yards where immigrants live.

The people you support are clammy gas station dwellers. Motherless roach people. Buckets of goat puke. Lobotomized bruise collectors, scrotal tumors, and racist cop-humpers.

By all means, take your argument to the family of someone who has been summarily executed by a cop, and let us know how it goes for you.Or have your next of kin do it.

To return to the point of the thread, police kill so often because they can, with very little apparent consequence. And they are enabled by scoundrels like you.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Ashvin

  • Contrarian
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 2655
    • View Profile
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2018, 09:15:40 PM »
Surly,

It doesn't go unnoticed that you ignored my response to your cop shooting stats. Your comments about cops reek of bitterness, resentment and faux socialist outrage - there is not even an ounce, a small sliver, of objective analysis in them. You pretend you have the answers for why cops shoot people, increasingly fewer unarmed black people, but you have no answers for anyone, LEAST of all the people who are victims of shootings.

At least we can all stop pretending you are coming at this from anything but pure ideological possession. Orwell had a few things to say about your type:

"The truth is that, to many people calling themselves Socialists, revolution does not mean a movement of the masses with which they hope to associate themselves; it means a set of reforms which 'we', the clever ones, are going to impose upon 'them', the Lower Orders. On the other hand, it would be a mistake to regard the book-trained Socialist as a bloodless creature entirely incapable of emotion. Though seldom giving much evidence of affection for the exploited, he is perfectly capable of displaying hatred—a sort of queer, theoretical, in vacuo hatred—against the exploiters."

"The underlying motive of many Socialists, I believe, is simply a hypertrophied sense of order. The present state of affairs offends them not because it causes misery, still less because it makes freedom impossible, but because it is untidy; what they desire, basically, is to reduce the world to something resembling a chess-board."

-The Road to Wigan Pier

Offline Ashvin

  • Contrarian
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 2655
    • View Profile
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2018, 09:35:19 PM »
The reason I brought up the consistently avoided topic of you failed blog, and the disavowal of all of your previous writings, is to underline your moral vacuity. You took it all down (and attempted to erase history) so it wouldn't fuck up your legal career.

The reason I started Picturing Christ was that I felt all the financial collapse talk (including my own on TAE and here) was dancing around the symptoms of root problems which have to do with peoples' underlying philosophy, metaphysics and theology. That is why I also started focusing on those topics here. That is what I still believe to this day - which is part of the reason I am so attracted to JP's discussions - he goes deep into the philosophy and theology.

BUT, part of being a Christian is recognizing that this world is a forum for action, not just endless musings in relatively futile attempts to reach a few dozen people - and my 3+ years of training in the American legal system made my actions most effective in a legal career. Now I have reached hundreds of people in concrete ways in which writing blog posts would never achieve.

It's unsurprising RE thinks of "failure" at blogging as a bad thing, but apparently you, the extremely nominal Christian, do as well. Anyone who has taken business risks and has some life experience, or takes the Christian worldview seriously, on the other hand, knows that occasional failure is guaranteed in life and it is often the best path to improvement of yourself and therefore the community around you.

I wanted to take down the TAE and DD posts because I did not want people attributing to me things that I no longer believed to be true. It's that simple. Perhaps that was a mistake, though - there is some value in preserving one's historical ideological development, despite (or because of) how utterly wrong the ideas were. I am not so worried about how those ideas will come to affect me anymore - I give people in my field more credit for intellectual discernment than I used to.

Now I am much more worried about people with NO such discernment, who take PRIDE in their ideological possession, like you, spreading your intellectually lazy and dangerous dogma out into the world. I am worried about the people like you who are organizing and influencing our culture. The people who could not picture Christ if their lives or eternal salvation depended on it.

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 38291
    • View Profile
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #52 on: September 23, 2018, 10:24:49 PM »
The reason I brought up the consistently avoided topic of you failed blog, and the disavowal of all of your previous writings, is to underline your moral vacuity. You took it all down (and attempted to erase history) so it wouldn't fuck up your legal career.

The reason I started Picturing Christ was that I felt all the financial collapse talk (including my own on TAE and here) was dancing around the symptoms of root problems which have to do with peoples' underlying philosophy, metaphysics and theology. That is why I also started focusing on those topics here. That is what I still believe to this day - which is part of the reason I am so attracted to JP's discussions - he goes deep into the philosophy and theology.

BUT, part of being a Christian is recognizing that this world is a forum for action, not just endless musings in relatively futile attempts to reach a few dozen people - and my 3+ years of training in the American legal system made my actions most effective in a legal career. Now I have reached hundreds of people in concrete ways in which writing blog posts would never achieve.

It's unsurprising RE thinks of "failure" at blogging as a bad thing, but apparently you, the extremely nominal Christian, do as well. Anyone who has taken business risks and has some life experience, or takes the Christian worldview seriously, on the other hand, knows that occasional failure is guaranteed in life and it is often the best path to improvement of yourself and therefore the community around you.

I wanted to take down the TAE and DD posts because I did not want people attributing to me things that I no longer believed to be true. It's that simple. Perhaps that was a mistake, though - there is some value in preserving one's historical ideological development, despite (or because of) how utterly wrong the ideas were. I am not so worried about how those ideas will come to affect me anymore - I give people in my field more credit for intellectual discernment than I used to.

Now I am much more worried about people with NO such discernment, who take PRIDE in their ideological possession, like you, spreading your intellectually lazy and dangerous dogma out into the world. I am worried about the people like you who are organizing and influencing our culture. The people who could not picture Christ if their lives or eternal salvation depended on it.


RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline K-Dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3151
    • View Profile
    • K-Dog
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2018, 02:38:28 AM »
Quote
The people who could not picture Christ if their lives or eternal salvation depended on it.



Christ on a crutch.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 38291
    • View Profile
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2018, 02:53:55 AM »
Quote
The people who could not picture Christ if their lives or eternal salvation depended on it.



Christ on a crutch.

That's a crappy walker.  No Brakes, no seat, no storage compartment.  Mine has really good brakes, padded seat and under-seat storage.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 15958
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2018, 04:10:57 AM »
The reason I brought up the consistently avoided topic of you failed blog, and the disavowal of all of your previous writings, is to underline your moral vacuity. You took it all down (and attempted to erase history) so it wouldn't fuck up your legal career.

The reason I started Picturing Christ was that I felt all the financial collapse talk (including my own on TAE and here) was dancing around the symptoms of root problems which have to do with peoples' underlying philosophy, metaphysics and theology. That is why I also started focusing on those topics here.

Perhaps you took out down because running a blog is hard work and is extremely time consuming. But more likely, because you thought it might be bad for badness. The guilt for which informs why you are so free with the epithets and accusations. "Before the cock crows three times..."

BUT, part of being a Christian is recognizing that this world is a forum for action, not just endless musings in relatively futile attempts to reach a few dozen people - and my 3+ years of training in the American legal system made my actions most effective in a legal career. Now I have reached hundreds of people in concrete ways in which writing blog posts would never achieve.

So you're finding some sort of higher calling as a bankruptcy attorney? Or a wider audience? The slipperiness of this equivocation eludes me, although the slimy feeling is familiar...

It's unsurprising RE thinks of "failure" at blogging as a bad thing, but apparently you, the extremely nominal Christian, do as well. Anyone who has taken business risks and has some life experience, or takes the Christian worldview seriously, on the other hand, knows that occasional failure is guaranteed in life and it is often the best path to improvement of yourself and therefore the community around you.

No, blogging is hard, thankless work. The only guaranteed outcomes are frustration, lack of sleep, and being dogged by trolls. Take it from a "nominal Christian." What an oaf.

Now I am much more worried about people with NO such discernment, who take PRIDE in their ideological possession, like you, spreading your intellectually lazy and dangerous dogma out into the world. I am worried about the people like you who are organizing and influencing our culture. The people who could not picture Christ if their lives or eternal salvation depended on it.

As Jesus said, "Blessed are the name-callers, for theirs are the dark money PAC contributions."

By all means, Ashvin, be afraid. Be very afraid. The oppressed are rising, and as they do I will hold their coats, even as you make apologies for their oppressors.

The future will belong to us.

"Ideological possession." A nice flourish. What's next, witch-burning? Ordeal by fire?
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 38291
    • View Profile
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2018, 04:22:39 AM »
So you're finding some sort of higher calling as a bankruptcy attorney? Or a wider audience? The slipperiness of this equivocation eludes me, although the slimy feeling is familiar...

It's God's Work to make your living off of people who are broke, dontchya know?  Next he will be chasing ambulances to make money off cripples.

If you can't succeed as a Blogger, you morph into a Troll in the commentariat of OPBs.  All the time Watson is spending here could be spent doing pro-bono work for more BK people, but noooooooo, he finds it necessary to show up here for another beat down on a daily basis!  ::)  Good Grief, he can't even successfully QUIT a website!  There is the definition of a complete LOSER on the internet.


RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Ashvin

  • Contrarian
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 2655
    • View Profile
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2018, 04:52:46 AM »
Let me start by saying, who gives a shit about my personal career choices? Apparently people who cannot think of any reasonable rebuttals or responses to arguments.  I am sharply critiquing your ideology which few people (if anyone) here shares. You can't respond, so you try going after my personal character. That being said...

Perhaps you took out down because running a blog is hard work and is extremely time consuming. But more likely, because you thought it might be bad for badness. The guilt for which informs why you are so free with the epithets and accusations. "Before the cock crows three times..."

Running a blog is not nearly as hard work or time consuming as successfully running a small business. It's not even close. Running a blog is also a lot easier and requires a lot less intellect than writing thoughtful articles or posts. Just look at RE's body of "work" for exhibit A.

So you're finding some sort of higher calling as a bankruptcy attorney? Or a wider audience? The slipperiness of this equivocation eludes me, although the slimy feeling is familiar...

Most definitely. When people come into my office in tears and barely able to speak due to their financial stress, I find a lot of value in watching them transform as that stress is removed and watching them at least have a chance to start over. At the very least they get to keep what they have earned without constantly being harassed or looking over their shoulders for a summons to court and freeze of their bank account or withholding of their paychecks. They also get to keep their families in shelter long enough to either catch up on payments or find something more affordable.

Quote
By all means, Ashvin, be afraid. Be very afraid. The oppressed are rising, and as they do I will hold their coats, even as you make apologies for their oppressors.

The future will belong to us.

"Ideological possession." A nice flourish. What's next, witch-burning? Ordeal by fire?

So you keep saying, Old Major. History has heard this mantra many times before - it won't prove any more enlightening or beneficial to the oppressed than it has before.

Offline Ashvin

  • Contrarian
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 2655
    • View Profile
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2018, 04:58:42 AM »

It's God's Work to make your living off of people who are broke, dontchya know?

$800-$3,000 to wipe out $50-$200k+ debt is a good deal, not to mention save who knows how much equity in your property. How much have you put back into the pockets of people who have ever given you money? Certainly not a dime into that of your readers.   

Quote
All the time Watson is spending here could be spent doing pro-bono work for more BK people,

I estimate it has taken me a grand total of 30 min. for all my comments on this thread, if that. A grand total of 2-3 hours for all my comments this year. How much hours of the day do you spend running a blog that most people would hesitate to call successful? Jealous much?

Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: 👮‍♂️ Why Police Kill So Often
« Reply #59 on: September 24, 2018, 05:22:20 AM »
Quote
$800-$3,000 to wipe out $50-$200k+ debt is a good deal, not to mention save who knows how much equity in your property.

Nice going Ashvin, as usual fair and honest, most admirable traits.

Goldbugs  remember a time when the lender was supposed to be as responsible as the borrower. They need a lesson taught them, the borrowers as well but they are usually much less sophisticated in theses matters than the former who take advantage.   

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
122 Views
Last post August 26, 2018, 12:21:43 AM
by RE
33 Replies
3240 Views
Last post June 14, 2019, 08:59:48 PM
by RE
0 Replies
212 Views
Last post June 22, 2019, 06:49:11 PM
by RE