AuthorTopic: Civil War Litigation Thread  (Read 4654 times)

Offline RE

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Re: Civil War Litigation Thread
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2018, 07:55:18 AM »
My gg uncle, the one who lived through the war and was present with Lee when he signed the surrender at Appomattox, was from South Carolina, and had served with a much decorated unit in the Mexican War, called the Palmetto Regiment.  They were famous sharpshooters.

This Texas connection, I believe, is what eventually drew my mothers family to Texas. He led them there, after the difficult times of reconstruction. As I have written elsewhere, the immediate post-war period in their part of SC was extremely hard, and they probably struggled to avoid starvation. He brought his extended family to Texas, including his widowed sister, who is buried in my native East Texas with my great grandfather and his family.

Sounds like a Doomer well prepped to GTFOOD when Collapse came to his neighborhood in SC.  Any idea what kind of Bugout Machine he used to get from SC to TX with his family?  Covered Wagon?  Pulled by Horses or Oxen?  What did he bring with him, what were his Preps?  How did he acquire land in TX?

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Re: Civil War Litigation Thread
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2018, 08:18:33 AM »
Not quite what happened.

They stayed in SC until reconstruction ended...the landed relatives (I think) by then were doing well again, but those who didn't have land weren't.

By that time (late 1870's) you could get to Texas on the train, that modern miracle of space age travel...and so the less wealthy side of the family rolled the dice and came here en masse. The uncle (the patriarch), his wife and kids, his widowed sister and her kids (four of them, teenagers at that point) all came to Texas (  as best I can determine).

Not sure, but they didn't all stay together. Uncle Miles ended up in a place called Tennessee Colony, in Anderson County. My great grandfather, his mother and that side ended up in Smith County, not super close, but not that far either. Not sure about all these details. They are all dead and I don't have anyone left to ask.

The uncle is the only one who left much of a record. There were a few of his dispatches from the war (writing them was part of his job) and then this great obit I found. His given name was Miles, but somehow it got turned into "Miel", which I think was his go-by.

He was the son of William Zedock Hilton and Margaret Susannah Williams and born in Hickory Head, South Carolina. His military service included the Mexican War(1846-1848)serving in the Palmetto Regiment, Company I and he also served in the U.S. Civil War (1861-1865)as a Major in Company E, 22nd SCVI.

Lancaster News 17 March 1906
Maj. Miel Hilton Dead

The Gallant Old Veteran of Two Wars Passes Away at his Home in Texas, the
State of his Adoption.

His old war comrades and many friends in Lancaster county will be pained to
learn of the death of Major Miel Hilton, which occurred at his home in Texas,
in the Tennessee Colony, on the 22nd day of last month. He moved from Flat
Creek township, this county, to Texas about twenty years ago. It will be
recalled that he was back here on a visit a few years ago.

As is well known, Maj. Hilton was a vetran of two wars - the Mexican and the
Civil, in both of which he was distinguished for gallantry and fidelity to
duty. He accompanied Capt. Amos McManus and other Lancaster veterans to Mexico in 1846, serving in the famous Palmetto regiment.

At the outbreak of the Civil war Maj. Hilton organized a company and carried
it to the front, his command becoming a part of the 22nd S.C. Regiment. He
was afterwards promoted from the rank of Captain to that of Major. He made a
brave and daring officer and was idolized by his men.

Maj. Hilton was a son of the late Zadock Hilton of Lancaster county and was 81
years old. He was the last of several sons, all of whom were prominent and
useful citizens. He has one sister living, Mrs. Mary Clyburn, of Rockingham,
N.C. His wife who was a Miss Sowell, died in Texas some years ago. He leaves
the following children: Mrs. Wm. B. Cook and Mrs. Lemuel Blackwell of this
county; W.A.J. Hilton and Kirby Hilton of Texas; and another son and daughter
in Texas whose names we have been unable to learn.
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Re: Civil War Litigation Thread
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2018, 08:33:30 AM »
They used the RAILROAD?  Fucking rich people!  I figured they were like the Mormons rolling hand carts to Texas based on your family description.  You come from RICH PEOPLE, not POOR PEOPLE!

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Re: Civil War Litigation Thread
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2018, 08:43:52 AM »
It's actually an interesting point.

The inheritors of the family plantation bounced back, and by the 1880's the scion of that family was in the SC legislature and his son followed him. Both were farmers and businessmen.

Those who came to Texas sort of devolved into subsistence farmers, working land they bought cheap with money they saved or borrowed. The descendants were a mixed bag, the products of poor country schools and a lifestyle that mostly consisted of working daylight-to-dark, and experiencing the Wrath of God up close and personal in the days before radio and penicillin.

My parents and the couple of generations before them were the opposite of rich. Very humble rural people, some very religious, some not. I favor the "nots" I guess.
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The American Civil War didn't end. And Trump is a Confederate president
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2018, 08:40:04 AM »
The American Civil War didn't end. And Trump is a Confederate president

His supporters hark back to an 1860s fantasy of white male dominance. But the Confederacy won’t win in the long run


Rebecca Solnit



Illustration by Dom McKenzie.

In the 158th year of the American civil war, also known as 2018, the Confederacy continues its recent resurgence. Its victims include black people, of course, but also immigrants, Jews, Muslims, Latinos, trans people, gay people and women who want to exercise jurisdiction over their bodies. The Confederacy battles in favor of uncontrolled guns and poisons, including toxins in streams, mercury from coal plants, carbon emissions into the upper atmosphere, and oil exploitation in previously protected lands and waters.

Its premise appears to be that protection of others limits the rights of white men, and those rights should be unlimited. The Brazilian philosopher of education Paulo Freire once noted that “the oppressors are afraid of losing the ‘freedom to oppress’”. Of course, not all white men support extending that old domination, but those who do see themselves and their privileges as under threat in a society in which women are gaining powers, and demographic shift is taking us to a US in which white people will be a minority by 2045.

If you are white, you could consider that the civil war ended in 1865. But the blowback against Reconstruction, the rise of Jim Crow, the myriad forms of segregation and deprivation of rights and freedoms and violence against black people, kept the population subjugated and punished into the present in ways that might as well be called war. It’s worth remembering that the Ku Klux Klan also hated Jews and, back then, Catholics; that the ideal of whiteness was anti-immigrant, anti-diversity, anti-inclusion; that Confederate flags went up not in the immediate post-war period of the 1860s but in the 1960s as a riposte to the civil rights movement.

Another way to talk about the United States as a country at war is to note that the number of weapons in circulation is incompatible with peace. We have 5% of the world’s population and35%-50% of the guns in civilian hands, more guns per capita than anywhere else – and more gun deaths, too. Is it any surprise that mass shootings – an almost entirely male and largely white phenomenon – are practically daily events? Many synagogues, Jewish community centers, black churches and public schools now engage in drills that are preparations for the gunman who might arrive, the gunman we’ve met in so many aftermath news stories, who is miserable, resentful, feels entitled to take lives and is well equipped to do so. The psychological impact of drills and fear, and the financial costs of security, are a tax on other people’s access to guns. So are the deaths.

A memorial outside the Tree of Life synagogue to the 11 people killed.
A memorial outside the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, where 11 people were killed. Photograph: Jeff Swensen/Getty Images

We had an ardent Unionist president for eight years, and now we are 21 months into the reign of an openly Confederate president, one who has defended Confederate statuesand Confederate values and Confederate goals, because Make America Great Again harks back to some antebellum fantasy of white male dominance. Last weekend might as well have been Make America Gentile Again. And then came the attack, last Tuesday, on one of the signal achievements after the end of all-out war between the states: the14th Amendment, which extends equal right of citizenship to everyone born here or naturalized.

So much of what is at stake is the definition of “us”, “ours” and “we”. “We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union,” says the preamble to the constitution. It was murky about who “we” were, and who “the people” were. That document apportions each state’s representation according to “whole Number of free Persons, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons”. “All other persons” is a polite way of saying enslaved black people, who found the union pretty imperfect. “Who’s your ‘us’?” could be what we ask each other and our elected officials.

“You will not replace us,” shouted the mobs of white men marching through Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017 in a rally organized in response to the planned removal of a statue of Confederate general Robert E Lee. When Dylann Roof murdered nine black people on 17 June 2015 in Charleston, South Carolina, he declared: “Y’all are raping our white women. Y’all are taking over the world.” His “us” was white people, perhaps white men, since “our women” seems to regard white women as white men’s possessions.

Taking over the world: there is a great deal of fear and rage about an increasingly non-white nation. “The US subtracts from its population a million of our babies in the form of abortion,” Representative Steve King told a far-right Austrian magazine. “We add to our population approximately 1.8 million of ‘somebody else’s babies’ who are raised in another culture before they get to us. We are replacing our American culture two to one every year.” (He ignored that, also, almost 4 million babies are born in this country annually; factual accuracy is not a pursuit of many on the far right.)

The current president has harped on for almost three years with the idea that immigrants and refugees are criminals who pose a danger to the rest of us. He has preached the gospel of a monumentally restrictive “we”. A Florida Trump enthusiast sent bombs to leading figures of the Democratic party and to prominent liberals, some of them Jewish, the other week. In Kentucky, two elderly black people were shot by a white supremacist who had earlier tried to enter a black church. After the attacks, the president ranted about “globalists”, an antisemitic code word for Jews, and when part of his cultic crowd shouted George Soros’s name – after Soros had been among the bombers’ targets – and then “lock him up”, the president repeated the phrase appreciatively. Then came last Saturday’s synagogue massacre.

The man who allegedlykilled 11 peoplein the Tree of Life synagogue last Saturday morning was focused on what the far right – president, Fox News and the like – pushed him to focus on – the Central American refugees in southern Mexico: the “caravan”. He bought into it as a threat and blamed that threat on Jews in general and the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society in particular. “All Jews must die,” he reportedly shouted as he allegedly shot elderly worshippers with the high-velocity bullets of his AR-15. He had posted just before: “I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered” – “my people” meaning that restrictive “us” the white nationalists urge people such as him to identify with. (The alleged killer also posted photographs of “my Glock family” on social media.)

Depicted as a menacing horde … a caravan of Central Americans in Mexico, bound for the US.
Depicted as a menacing horde … a caravan of Central Americans in Mexico, bound for the US. Photograph: Guillermo Arias/AFP/Getty Images

Rightwing media and the president himself have depicted the refugees as a menacing horde. “Trump’s suggestion that Middle Easterners had joined the group came shortly after a guest on the Fox & Friends news talkshow raised the specter of Isis fighters embedding themselves in the group,” reported the Hill. The vice-president, Mike Pence, justified the baseless speculation with his own luridly counterfactual speculation. “It’s inconceivable that there are not people of Middle Eastern descent in a crowd of more than 7,000 people advancing toward our border,”he said. Latin Americans, who are also Muslims, who are also the fault of Jews. Refugees who Fox News, reviving an ugly old tradition, warn might infect us withdeadly diseases(including smallpox, which is functionally extinct, and leprosy, which is perhaps the least contagious of all contagious diseases). Refugees who are aggressors. A distant “them” to rally a fearful idea of “us” against.

We never cleaned up after the civil war, never made it anathema, as the Germans have since the second world war, to support the losing side. We never had a truth and reconciliation process like South Africa did. We’ve allowed statues to go up across the country glorifying the traitors and losers, treated the pro-slavery flag as sentimental, fun, Dukes of Hazzard, white identity politics. A retired general, Stanley McChrystal, just wrote a piece about throwing out his portrait of Robert E Lee that he’d had for 40 years, and why a US soldier should celebrate the leader of a war against that country says everything about the distortion of meaning and memory here.

The Washington Post reported the other week that a senior Veterans Affairs official finally removed his portrait of a Confederate general who was also the first grand wizard of the KKK after employees, many of them black, protested at having the image in their workplace. There were death threats against the contractors hired to take down Confederate statues in New Orleans, and an epic battle over the sale of Confederate flags at county fairs in New York state. The Confederacy, which should have died a century and a half ago, is with us still, and the recent attack on the 14th amendment is an attempt to return us to its vision of radical inequality of rights and protections.

Even before the United States was founded, great conflicts arose between the Puritans and other Christians who wanted to live in a segregated, homogeneous society, and the pluralists, between narrow and broad “us”. In what is now New Mexico, crypto-Jews –J ews who had survived the Spanish Inquisition by hiding their faith – found refuge in the mid-17th century. In 1657, Quakers in what is now Queens, New York, issued the Flushing Remonstrance, a manifesto in favor of religious tolerance countering the Dutch colony of New Amsterdam’s attempt to drive out Jews and anyone else outside the Dutch Reformed church.

That pluralistic, inclusive impulse never vanished. It’s in a recent Muslim fundraiser for the victims of the massacre at the synagogue and Muslim work to guard Jewish cemeteries in recent years; in the work of relatives of Japanese-American survivors of internment to stand up for targeted Muslims in the wake of 9/11. It’s in all the work of inclusion and liberation and solidarity made since, in abolition and human rights work, including by the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. Mark Hetfield, head of the society, tweeted the other weekend: “We used to say we welcomed refugees because they were Jewish. Now we say we welcome refugees because *we* are Jewish. We know what persecution and terror is. We are a refugee people.”

You don’t have to be oppressed or come from a history of oppression to stand with the oppressed; you just have to have a definition of “we” that includes people of various points of origin and language and religious belief and sexual orientation and gender identity. A lot of us do: many large US cities are places of thriving everyday coexistence across difference. A lot of Americans have married across racial and religious lines, some have devoted themselves to the work of solidarity, and a lot subscribe to a grand inclusive “we, the people”. Those who don’t are not a majority but they have an outsized impact, more now than in a very long time. The Confederacy didn’t win in the 1860s and it is not going to win in the long run, but inflicting as much damage as possible seems to be how they want to go down.

In the short term, it is immensely worth trying to win as much as possible in this week’s elections. Some politicians support gun control; some belong to the NRA. Some want to take away reproductive rights; some are ardent defenders of those rights so essential to women being free and equal members of society. Some oppose taking refugee children from their refugee parents and putting them in baby gulags; some are enthusiasts for this child abuse. The differences are clearcut.

And in the long run we need to end the war with a decisive victory for an idea of a pluralistic,e pluribus unumunion, with an affirmation of inclusive values and universal human rights, and of equality across all categories. Pittsburgh’s Jewish leaders wrote: “President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you cease your assault on immigrants and refugees. The Torah teaches that every human being is madeb’tzelem Elohim, in the image of God. This means all of us.”

Long after Trump is gone, we will have these delusional soldiers of the Confederacy and their weapons, and ending the war means ending their allegiance to the narrow “us” and the entitlement to attack. As Michelle Alexander reminded us recently: “The whole of American history can be described as a struggle between those who truly embraced the revolutionary idea of freedom, equality and justice for all, and those who resisted.” She argues that we are not the resistance; we are the river that they are trying to dam; they are the resistance, the minority, the people trying to stop the flow of history.

Perhaps peace means creating so compelling a story of abundance and possibility and wellbeing that it encourages people to wander out of their bunkers and put down their weapons and come over. It means issuing invitations, not just rebukes, and that’s a long, slow complex job. All week I’ve had the title line from Johnny Cash’s song Like a Soldier in my head. How does a soldier get over the war? I don’t know, but it helps if the war is over.

I do know that so much of what makes this country miserable is imagined poverty, the sense that there is not enough for all of us, that we need to become grabbers and hoarders and slammers of doors and ad hoc border patrols. Wars are fought over resources, and this is a fight over redistribution of resources and who decides about that distribution. We are a vast land, a country of unequaled affluence – albeit with obscene problems of distribution – a country that has always been diverse, and one that has periodically affirmed ideas of equality and universal rights that we could actually someday live up to fully. That seems to be the only real alternative to endless civil war, for all of us.

  • Rebecca Solnit is a Guardian US columnist. She is the author of Men Explain Things to Me and The Mother of All Questions

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Offline Eddie

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Re: The American Civil War didn't end. And Trump is a Confederate president
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2018, 09:37:04 AM »
The American Civil War didn't end. And Trump is a Confederate president

His supporters hark back to an 1860s fantasy of white male dominance. But the Confederacy won’t win in the long run


Rebecca Solnit



Illustration by Dom McKenzie.

In the 158th year of the American civil war, also known as 2018, the Confederacy continues its recent resurgence. Its victims include black people, of course, but also immigrants, Jews, Muslims, Latinos, trans people, gay people and women who want to exercise jurisdiction over their bodies. The Confederacy battles in favor of uncontrolled guns and poisons, including toxins in streams, mercury from coal plants, carbon emissions into the upper atmosphere, and oil exploitation in previously protected lands and waters.

Its premise appears to be that protection of others limits the rights of white men, and those rights should be unlimited. The Brazilian philosopher of education Paulo Freire once noted that “the oppressors are afraid of losing the ‘freedom to oppress’”. Of course, not all white men support extending that old domination, but those who do see themselves and their privileges as under threat in a society in which women are gaining powers, and demographic shift is taking us to a US in which white people will be a minority by 2045.

If you are white, you could consider that the civil war ended in 1865. But the blowback against Reconstruction, the rise of Jim Crow, the myriad forms of segregation and deprivation of rights and freedoms and violence against black people, kept the population subjugated and punished into the present in ways that might as well be called war. It’s worth remembering that the Ku Klux Klan also hated Jews and, back then, Catholics; that the ideal of whiteness was anti-immigrant, anti-diversity, anti-inclusion; that Confederate flags went up not in the immediate post-war period of the 1860s but in the 1960s as a riposte to the civil rights movement.

Another way to talk about the United States as a country at war is to note that the number of weapons in circulation is incompatible with peace. We have 5% of the world’s population and35%-50% of the guns in civilian hands, more guns per capita than anywhere else – and more gun deaths, too. Is it any surprise that mass shootings – an almost entirely male and largely white phenomenon – are practically daily events? Many synagogues, Jewish community centers, black churches and public schools now engage in drills that are preparations for the gunman who might arrive, the gunman we’ve met in so many aftermath news stories, who is miserable, resentful, feels entitled to take lives and is well equipped to do so. The psychological impact of drills and fear, and the financial costs of security, are a tax on other people’s access to guns. So are the deaths.

A memorial outside the Tree of Life synagogue to the 11 people killed.
A memorial outside the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, where 11 people were killed. Photograph: Jeff Swensen/Getty Images

We had an ardent Unionist president for eight years, and now we are 21 months into the reign of an openly Confederate president, one who has defended Confederate statuesand Confederate values and Confederate goals, because Make America Great Again harks back to some antebellum fantasy of white male dominance. Last weekend might as well have been Make America Gentile Again. And then came the attack, last Tuesday, on one of the signal achievements after the end of all-out war between the states: the14th Amendment, which extends equal right of citizenship to everyone born here or naturalized.

So much of what is at stake is the definition of “us”, “ours” and “we”. “We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union,” says the preamble to the constitution. It was murky about who “we” were, and who “the people” were. That document apportions each state’s representation according to “whole Number of free Persons, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons”. “All other persons” is a polite way of saying enslaved black people, who found the union pretty imperfect. “Who’s your ‘us’?” could be what we ask each other and our elected officials.

“You will not replace us,” shouted the mobs of white men marching through Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017 in a rally organized in response to the planned removal of a statue of Confederate general Robert E Lee. When Dylann Roof murdered nine black people on 17 June 2015 in Charleston, South Carolina, he declared: “Y’all are raping our white women. Y’all are taking over the world.” His “us” was white people, perhaps white men, since “our women” seems to regard white women as white men’s possessions.

Taking over the world: there is a great deal of fear and rage about an increasingly non-white nation. “The US subtracts from its population a million of our babies in the form of abortion,” Representative Steve King told a far-right Austrian magazine. “We add to our population approximately 1.8 million of ‘somebody else’s babies’ who are raised in another culture before they get to us. We are replacing our American culture two to one every year.” (He ignored that, also, almost 4 million babies are born in this country annually; factual accuracy is not a pursuit of many on the far right.)

The current president has harped on for almost three years with the idea that immigrants and refugees are criminals who pose a danger to the rest of us. He has preached the gospel of a monumentally restrictive “we”. A Florida Trump enthusiast sent bombs to leading figures of the Democratic party and to prominent liberals, some of them Jewish, the other week. In Kentucky, two elderly black people were shot by a white supremacist who had earlier tried to enter a black church. After the attacks, the president ranted about “globalists”, an antisemitic code word for Jews, and when part of his cultic crowd shouted George Soros’s name – after Soros had been among the bombers’ targets – and then “lock him up”, the president repeated the phrase appreciatively. Then came last Saturday’s synagogue massacre.

The man who allegedlykilled 11 peoplein the Tree of Life synagogue last Saturday morning was focused on what the far right – president, Fox News and the like – pushed him to focus on – the Central American refugees in southern Mexico: the “caravan”. He bought into it as a threat and blamed that threat on Jews in general and the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society in particular. “All Jews must die,” he reportedly shouted as he allegedly shot elderly worshippers with the high-velocity bullets of his AR-15. He had posted just before: “I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered” – “my people” meaning that restrictive “us” the white nationalists urge people such as him to identify with. (The alleged killer also posted photographs of “my Glock family” on social media.)

Depicted as a menacing horde … a caravan of Central Americans in Mexico, bound for the US.
Depicted as a menacing horde … a caravan of Central Americans in Mexico, bound for the US. Photograph: Guillermo Arias/AFP/Getty Images

Rightwing media and the president himself have depicted the refugees as a menacing horde. “Trump’s suggestion that Middle Easterners had joined the group came shortly after a guest on the Fox & Friends news talkshow raised the specter of Isis fighters embedding themselves in the group,” reported the Hill. The vice-president, Mike Pence, justified the baseless speculation with his own luridly counterfactual speculation. “It’s inconceivable that there are not people of Middle Eastern descent in a crowd of more than 7,000 people advancing toward our border,”he said. Latin Americans, who are also Muslims, who are also the fault of Jews. Refugees who Fox News, reviving an ugly old tradition, warn might infect us withdeadly diseases(including smallpox, which is functionally extinct, and leprosy, which is perhaps the least contagious of all contagious diseases). Refugees who are aggressors. A distant “them” to rally a fearful idea of “us” against.

We never cleaned up after the civil war, never made it anathema, as the Germans have since the second world war, to support the losing side. We never had a truth and reconciliation process like South Africa did. We’ve allowed statues to go up across the country glorifying the traitors and losers, treated the pro-slavery flag as sentimental, fun, Dukes of Hazzard, white identity politics. A retired general, Stanley McChrystal, just wrote a piece about throwing out his portrait of Robert E Lee that he’d had for 40 years, and why a US soldier should celebrate the leader of a war against that country says everything about the distortion of meaning and memory here.

The Washington Post reported the other week that a senior Veterans Affairs official finally removed his portrait of a Confederate general who was also the first grand wizard of the KKK after employees, many of them black, protested at having the image in their workplace. There were death threats against the contractors hired to take down Confederate statues in New Orleans, and an epic battle over the sale of Confederate flags at county fairs in New York state. The Confederacy, which should have died a century and a half ago, is with us still, and the recent attack on the 14th amendment is an attempt to return us to its vision of radical inequality of rights and protections.

Even before the United States was founded, great conflicts arose between the Puritans and other Christians who wanted to live in a segregated, homogeneous society, and the pluralists, between narrow and broad “us”. In what is now New Mexico, crypto-Jews –J ews who had survived the Spanish Inquisition by hiding their faith – found refuge in the mid-17th century. In 1657, Quakers in what is now Queens, New York, issued the Flushing Remonstrance, a manifesto in favor of religious tolerance countering the Dutch colony of New Amsterdam’s attempt to drive out Jews and anyone else outside the Dutch Reformed church.

That pluralistic, inclusive impulse never vanished. It’s in a recent Muslim fundraiser for the victims of the massacre at the synagogue and Muslim work to guard Jewish cemeteries in recent years; in the work of relatives of Japanese-American survivors of internment to stand up for targeted Muslims in the wake of 9/11. It’s in all the work of inclusion and liberation and solidarity made since, in abolition and human rights work, including by the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. Mark Hetfield, head of the society, tweeted the other weekend: “We used to say we welcomed refugees because they were Jewish. Now we say we welcome refugees because *we* are Jewish. We know what persecution and terror is. We are a refugee people.”

You don’t have to be oppressed or come from a history of oppression to stand with the oppressed; you just have to have a definition of “we” that includes people of various points of origin and language and religious belief and sexual orientation and gender identity. A lot of us do: many large US cities are places of thriving everyday coexistence across difference. A lot of Americans have married across racial and religious lines, some have devoted themselves to the work of solidarity, and a lot subscribe to a grand inclusive “we, the people”. Those who don’t are not a majority but they have an outsized impact, more now than in a very long time. The Confederacy didn’t win in the 1860s and it is not going to win in the long run, but inflicting as much damage as possible seems to be how they want to go down.

In the short term, it is immensely worth trying to win as much as possible in this week’s elections. Some politicians support gun control; some belong to the NRA. Some want to take away reproductive rights; some are ardent defenders of those rights so essential to women being free and equal members of society. Some oppose taking refugee children from their refugee parents and putting them in baby gulags; some are enthusiasts for this child abuse. The differences are clearcut.

And in the long run we need to end the war with a decisive victory for an idea of a pluralistic,e pluribus unumunion, with an affirmation of inclusive values and universal human rights, and of equality across all categories. Pittsburgh’s Jewish leaders wrote: “President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you cease your assault on immigrants and refugees. The Torah teaches that every human being is madeb’tzelem Elohim, in the image of God. This means all of us.”

Long after Trump is gone, we will have these delusional soldiers of the Confederacy and their weapons, and ending the war means ending their allegiance to the narrow “us” and the entitlement to attack. As Michelle Alexander reminded us recently: “The whole of American history can be described as a struggle between those who truly embraced the revolutionary idea of freedom, equality and justice for all, and those who resisted.” She argues that we are not the resistance; we are the river that they are trying to dam; they are the resistance, the minority, the people trying to stop the flow of history.

Perhaps peace means creating so compelling a story of abundance and possibility and wellbeing that it encourages people to wander out of their bunkers and put down their weapons and come over. It means issuing invitations, not just rebukes, and that’s a long, slow complex job. All week I’ve had the title line from Johnny Cash’s song Like a Soldier in my head. How does a soldier get over the war? I don’t know, but it helps if the war is over.

I do know that so much of what makes this country miserable is imagined poverty, the sense that there is not enough for all of us, that we need to become grabbers and hoarders and slammers of doors and ad hoc border patrols. Wars are fought over resources, and this is a fight over redistribution of resources and who decides about that distribution. We are a vast land, a country of unequaled affluence – albeit with obscene problems of distribution – a country that has always been diverse, and one that has periodically affirmed ideas of equality and universal rights that we could actually someday live up to fully. That seems to be the only real alternative to endless civil war, for all of us.

  • Rebecca Solnit is a Guardian US columnist. She is the author of Men Explain Things to Me and The Mother of All Questions




I hate Trump, and the would-be Confederate yahoos who invoke his name are delusional idiots. But.....

The Confederacy connection is bogus.

White males were in control of the Union too, in case you don't remember your history. Women didn't get the vote for 53 years after Lee surrendered.

This is a very typical PC Police article that tries (and fails) to make the case that everything that's wrong with the world today a direct consequence of capitalism and the white male patriarchy. It's a popular sentiment in some quarters, but it's a real reach, when it comes to proof.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 10:34:43 AM by Eddie »
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Civil War Litigation Thread
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2018, 12:31:40 PM »
Quote from: Eddie
I hate Trump, and the would-be Confederate yahoos who invoke his name are delusional idiots. But.....

The Confederacy connection is bogus.

White males were in control of the Union too, in case you don't remember your history. Women didn't get the vote for 53 years after Lee surrendered.

This is a very typical PC Police article that tries (and fails) to make the case that everything that's wrong with the world today a direct consequence of capitalism and the white male patriarchy. It's a popular sentiment in some quarters, but it's a real reach, when it comes to proof.

You won't be surprised to learn that I disagree. Southerners have been re-litigating the Civil War since they withdrew the federal troops and stood up the Klan and the "Lost Cause" mythology. The candidate who is running against Tim Kaine for a Senate seat in Virginia is Corey Stewart, a full  bore republiconfederate and proud of it. So the "confederacy connection" is anything but bogus: it is quite genuine and actionable.

And I know you carry no water for Trump and his new best friend, "beautiful Ted."

Since you were busy "killing" infants this weekend, you probably missed the video of a bunch of uniformed militia types marching in force. It was on FB and I did not repost here, because that video won't display. Some in Oath Keepers camo, some in neo-nazi garb, and at least one old fuck dressed up like Marse Robert himself. If these people were walking down the street in your town, you'd clear the duck out. These fucking people have gone from cosplay to homicide, and it is worth taking seriously before someone else dies at Jefferson Davis Trump's exhortation.

There may be good reason to reject Solnit's analysis, but a variant of "bothsiderism" (by dismissing her as part of the PC Police) ain't it. I have the rudiments of an artoicle on bothsiderism laying fallow in draft mode on the blog. I should probably finish the damned thing.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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Re: Civil War Litigation Thread
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2018, 03:18:58 PM »
Since you were busy "killing" infants this weekend, you probably missed the video of a bunch of uniformed militia types marching in force. It was on FB and I did not repost here, because that video won't display. Some in Oath Keepers camo, some in neo-nazi garb, and at least one old fuck dressed up like Marse Robert himself. If these people were walking down the street in your town, you'd clear the duck out. These fucking people have gone from cosplay to homicide, and it is worth taking seriously before someone else dies at Jefferson Davis Trump's exhortation.

You can generally find vids posted to Facepalm on Utoob also.    Give me the URL, I'll see if I can search it down.

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Offline Ashvin

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Re: The American Civil War didn't end. And Trump is a Confederate president
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2018, 04:16:15 PM »
This is a very typical PC Police article that tries (and fails) to make the case that everything that's wrong with the world today a direct consequence of capitalism and the white male patriarchy. It's a popular sentiment in some quarters, but it's a real reach, when it comes to proof.

This is Spotting Ideologically-Driven "Analysis" 101 - if it attributes a wide range of complicated phenomenon to one or two causal mechanisms, then that's what it is. Realizing this isn't "bothsiderism", it's a desire to ignore ANY side which is too lazy or too malicious to avoid that dangerous ploy. It's especially dangerous when the "causal" mechanisms identified allow us to easily impose collective guilt on others.

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Re: The American Civil War didn't end. And Trump is a Confederate president
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2018, 04:32:01 PM »
This is a very typical PC Police article that tries (and fails) to make the case that everything that's wrong with the world today a direct consequence of capitalism and the white male patriarchy. It's a popular sentiment in some quarters, but it's a real reach, when it comes to proof.

This is Spotting Ideologically-Driven "Analysis" 101 - if it attributes a wide range of complicated phenomenon to one or two causal mechanisms, then that's what it is. Realizing this isn't "bothsiderism", it's a desire to ignore ANY side which is too lazy or too malicious to avoid that dangerous ploy. It's especially dangerous when the "causal" mechanisms identified allow us to easily impose collective guilt on others.

Did you actually say ANYTHING with this post?  ???  :icon_scratch:  Try to make your contributions have some value, trash trolling posts are not :hi:.

RE
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Offline Ashvin

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Re: The American Civil War didn't end. And Trump is a Confederate president
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2018, 04:43:11 PM »
This is a very typical PC Police article that tries (and fails) to make the case that everything that's wrong with the world today a direct consequence of capitalism and the white male patriarchy. It's a popular sentiment in some quarters, but it's a real reach, when it comes to proof.

This is Spotting Ideologically-Driven "Analysis" 101 - if it attributes a wide range of complicated phenomenon to one or two causal mechanisms, then that's what it is. Realizing this isn't "bothsiderism", it's a desire to ignore ANY side which is too lazy or too malicious to avoid that dangerous ploy. It's especially dangerous when the "causal" mechanisms identified allow us to easily impose collective guilt on others.

Did you actually say ANYTHING with this post?  ???  :icon_scratch:  Try to make your contributions have some value, trash trolling posts are not :hi:.

RE

Yes, I did - my post partly reinforcing Eddie's post and partly critiquing the Guardian article which did exactly what I believe an ideological analysis does - reduce a wide range of phenomenon to one or two causal mechanisms. This time the cause for all sorts of racist and violent thoughts/actions were... Trump and the right wing establishment.

Offline RE

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Re: The American Civil War didn't end. And Trump is a Confederate president
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2018, 05:07:07 PM »
This is a very typical PC Police article that tries (and fails) to make the case that everything that's wrong with the world today a direct consequence of capitalism and the white male patriarchy. It's a popular sentiment in some quarters, but it's a real reach, when it comes to proof.

This is Spotting Ideologically-Driven "Analysis" 101 - if it attributes a wide range of complicated phenomenon to one or two causal mechanisms, then that's what it is. Realizing this isn't "bothsiderism", it's a desire to ignore ANY side which is too lazy or too malicious to avoid that dangerous ploy. It's especially dangerous when the "causal" mechanisms identified allow us to easily impose collective guilt on others.

Did you actually say ANYTHING with this post?  ???  :icon_scratch:  Try to make your contributions have some value, trash trolling posts are not :hi:.

RE

Yes, I did - my post partly reinforcing Eddie's post and partly critiquing the Guardian article which did exactly what I believe an ideological analysis does - reduce a wide range of phenomenon to one or two causal mechanisms. This time the cause for all sorts of racist and violent thoughts/actions were... Trump and the right wing establishment.

I did not perceive that from anything in the OP.  You'll need to be less abstract in the future.  Even if I did figure it out from your telegraphy though, it's still complete nonsense.  You need to turn on your brain here at some point.  At the moment you appear to be stuck in neutral.

RE
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 05:09:06 PM by RE »
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Offline Surly1

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Re: The American Civil War didn't end. And Trump is a Confederate president
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2018, 11:51:28 AM »
This is a very typical PC Police article that tries (and fails) to make the case that everything that's wrong with the world today a direct consequence of capitalism and the white male patriarchy. It's a popular sentiment in some quarters, but it's a real reach, when it comes to proof.

This is Spotting Ideologically-Driven "Analysis" 101 - if it attributes a wide range of complicated phenomenon to one or two causal mechanisms, then that's what it is. Realizing this isn't "bothsiderism", it's a desire to ignore ANY side which is too lazy or too malicious to avoid that dangerous ploy. It's especially dangerous when the "causal" mechanisms identified allow us to easily impose collective guilt on others.

Naah.

Calling Rebecca Solnit "lazy or malicious" is quite a reach. You have to be wearing ideological blinders to ignore the veracity of her argument. Which you are, and which you do.
But it's always a pleasure to watch the enthusiasm with which you carry water for the white male patriarchy, which is clearly in such need of being defended.

No, RE, he ain't sayin' shit, but he's trying to make sure he looks reeeeeal good while he's not sayin' it.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline edpell

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Re: Civil War Litigation Thread
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2018, 06:00:57 PM »
States rights, down with the despot Lincoln.

Offline RE

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Re: The American Civil War didn't end. And Trump is a Confederate president
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2018, 06:14:57 PM »
No, RE, he ain't sayin' shit, but he's trying to make sure he looks reeeeeal good while he's not sayin' it.

Watson is a Smart Troll, I have never denied that one.  He is also a great dog to kick, he leaves so many openings it's downright EZ to fuck with him.  That's why I don't pitch him to the Great Beyond in perpetuity.  It's too much fun fucking with him.  :icon_sunny:  He's damn smart, almost as smart as me but he is utterly corrupt and an EZ Target as a result.  ;D

RE
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