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Online Eddie

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Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« on: November 12, 2018, 06:06:26 AM »
Shit WILL be tried, before it's done.


Would flooding the deserts help stop global warming?

The idea is “risky, unproven, even unlikely to work," according to Y Combinator. But if it did work, it could slow climate change.

 A Silicon Valley firm wants to flood deserts to help solve global warming.

Nov. 11, 2018 / 9:10 AM CST
By James Rainey

Imagine flooding a desert half the size of the Sahara. Using 238 trillion gallons of desalinated ocean water to do the job. Creating millions of 1-acre-square micro-reservoirs to grow enough algae to gobble up all of Earth’s climate-changing carbon dioxide. For an encore: How about spreading the water and fertilizer (the dead algae) to grow a vast new forest of oxygen-producing trees?

A Silicon Valley venture capital firm, Y Combinator, unveiled the radical desert flooding plan as one of four “moonshot” scenarios that it hopes innovators will explore as potential remedies to catastrophic global warming.

But would it work? And should it even be tried?

With unlimited capital and political will — both far from given — experts said the scheme would stand a chance of reducing dangerous greenhouse gas levels. But while they generally believe the climate crisis has become severe enough to push even extreme options onto the table, the experts cautioned against interventions that might create as many problems as they solve.

“We do not want to have this be purely profit driven,” said Greg Rau, a University of California, Santa Cruz climate scientist and part of the team that helped Y Combinator craft the request for proposals. “We are trying to benefit the planet, not just make money. So we need this kind of research and development first, but then oversight and governance over how any of this is deployed.”

The Y Combinator proposal grows out of what is now the consensus of climate scientists — that humanity needs to move beyond slowing the production of carbon dioxide and begin removing excess levels of the gas already straining Earth’s atmosphere.

The startup accelerator that helped finance Airbnb, Dropbox and Reddit asked innovators last month to come forward with specific proposals on desert flooding and three other extreme plans for reducing greenhouse gas concentrations. The existential threat posed by climate change requires research into solutions that the investment firm itself conceded could be “risky, unproven, even unlikely to work.”

Y Combinator said it had a rush of interest in its challenge. It declined to say how many took up the desert flooding option. But Sam Altman, Y Combinator's president, predicted that in 2019 his firm will fund three companies to pursue the “Plan B” climate solutions.

A host of scientists who have studied Earth’s ecosystems, climate change and bio-engineering said further exploration might be warranted. But they were quick to cite many reasons that desert flooding is not likely to succeed.

MASSIVE SIZE
Y Combinator called filling 1.7 million acres of arid land with 2-meter-deep pools of water “the largest infrastructure project ever undertaken.” Just to pump ocean water inland and desalinate it would require an electrical grid far greater than the one Earth now devotes to all other uses.

“It’s a desert for a reason,” said Lynn Fenstermaker, a research professor at Nevada’s Desert Research Institute. “Flooding the desert and then keeping the water there, in an already water-poor area with all the evaporation, is hard to imagine.”

Y Combinator doesn’t deny the magnitude of the challenge. “Economies of scale as well as breakthroughs in material science and construction technology will all be necessary for success,” its proposal says.

UNPRECEDENTED COST
Y Combinator pegs the price tag at $50 trillion. That’s roughly half the entire globe’s economic productivity for a year. Altman said in an interview that the cost for any solution will need to drop into the billions to become more realistic. “You can do a lot of things that require spending more money than you will ever be able to get,” Altman said, “and it just doesn’t come.” Brought to a more realistic price, he believes that governments will pay.

DESTRUCTION OF UNIQUE ECOSYSTEMS
Many species would be wiped out by massive man-made flooding of deserts. “People think there is nothing valuable in the deserts, but that is far from the truth,” said Henry Sun, a microbiologist and research professor at the Desert Research Center. “These diverse species deserve, and need, the desert to survive.” Most of the world’s countries would set a high bar, Sun said, before destroying habitat.

POTENTIAL FOR MAKING THINGS WORSE
Interfering with nature can have unexpected consequences. Katherine Mackey, a University of California, Irvine climate scientist, noted how Australia has long tried, and failed, to combat overpopulation of native species by introducing non-native creatures. Famous case in point: toads were introduced in 1935 to tame sugar cane-eating beetles. But the toads couldn’t climb sugar cane. So the beetles thrived, alongside their new neighbors — an out-of-control toad population.

“Saying that we intervened and created a problem with global warming, so let’s further intervene, that’s not the thing to do,” Mackey said. “That’s not how you fix the problem, by replacing it with another problem.”

DISTRACTING FROM MORE WORKABLE SOLUTIONS
Climate scientists believe that most, if not all, the needed solutions for limiting new greenhouse gas emissions and reducing current CO2 concentrations already exist. Environmentalist Paul Hawken has catalogued solutions in his Project Drawdown. Taken in total, Hawken has said, they would reduce emissions and sequester enough carbon to more than meet the goals laid out by world leaders in the 2015 Paris climate accord.



Paradise, California, in ruins as Camp Fire continues to rage
Among the carbon-sinking projects that would require little or no new technology: creating new forests in degraded pasture, farm and other land; criss-crossing fields with trees to create so-called silvopastures, which absorb far more carbon than open fields; and preserving and restoring peatlands, the boggy wetlands that store carbon at twice the rate of the world’s oceans.

“I think it’s far easier to, for instance, make our houses better insulated and solar powered, than to flood deserts. Also, from a timescale perspective, how quickly will this technology be available at scale?” said Mathis Wackernagel, president of the Global Footprint Network, an Oakland, California-based sustainability think tank. “If we want to solve climate, why not bet on the easy stuff?”

THE CASE FOR A MOONSHOT
Altman’s answer is that he and Y Combinator already support, and fund, pragmatic green energy companies. But big reductions in greenhouses gases are still needed and don’t appear to be coming quickly enough, the firm said.

Y Combinator suggests that flooding the deserts may be less risky than another solution on its list — fertilizing the oceans with massive amounts of iron or other nutrients to spur the growth of CO2-gobbling phytoplankton. Compared to ocean phytoplankton seeding, “doing so in desert reservoirs reduces systemic risk and exposure of the marine ecosystem to our widespread meddling,” Y Combinator’s request for proposals says.

“The window for easy solutions is already closed. Doing nothing is guaranteed suicide,” the firm said. Altman, 33, added: “All of this stuff is scary. However, runaway global warming where we all die is also quite scary. ...None of this is where we would like to be. But here we are.”

Activists and scientists interviewed by NBC News said exploration of far-out solutions is warranted — as long as researchers, governments and funders don’t lose focus on other fixes.

“The concern I have is that Silicon Valley seems very excited about these moonshots, when maybe what we need is a bunch of Boeing 737s,” said Armond Cohen, executive director of the Clean Air Task Force, a clean energy think tank and lobbying organization. “And to do it on a 10- to 15-year development cycle, not one that takes 30 years.”


James Rainey covers climate change for NBC News.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/would-flooding-deserts-help-stop-global-warming-n934551


What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2018, 06:22:28 AM »
What could possibly go wrong?

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Offline K-Dog

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2018, 06:33:06 AM »
Who is going to pay for it?

KD
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Online Eddie

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2018, 06:48:54 AM »
Who is going to pay for it?

KD

Initial Coin Offering.

Buy Global Cooling coins to reverse global warming. Hipsters will all have to own it. The T-shirt franchise alone will be worth millions.

Shhhh. Don't tell anybody. This idea is real genius.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2018, 06:56:02 AM »
Who is going to pay for it?

KD

Initial Coin Offering.

Buy Global Cooling coins to reverse global warming. Hipsters will all have to own it. The T-shirt franchise alone will be worth millions.

Shhhh. Don't tell anybody. This idea is real genius.

Yes, the kind of genius that leaves someone holding the bag.

Quote
“Economies of scale as well as breakthroughs in material science and construction technology will all be necessary for success,” its proposal says.

Do you believe in magic?  Apparently double magic is needed to make it work.  The conclusion I think we may agree, is that we are all still tuned into the Doom channel.

 :coffee:
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline RE

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2018, 06:57:01 AM »
Who is going to pay for it?

KD

Taxpayers.  Count on Eddie's Tax Bill doubling up.  Tax Donkeys are EZ Marks.

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Online Eddie

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2018, 07:05:57 AM »
Yes, the kind of genius that leaves someone holding the bag.

No, no....I'm telling you, it's perfect.

It's the same idea as getting patriotic fools to buy war bonds. They do it because they BELIEVE they're doing something good, even though it's obvious to anyone with one eye and half sense that it's just the government hoovering up pocket change from poor people.

Same principle, just a different demographic.

Millenials will line up to buy the coins. They won't be upset even if they lose every last penny. Because they've taken ACTION.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Online Eddie

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2018, 07:08:23 AM »
It'll become a fad, like wearing a POW bracelet.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2018, 07:18:05 AM »
Yes, the kind of genius that leaves someone holding the bag.

No, no....I'm telling you, it's perfect.

It's the same idea as getting patriotic fools to buy war bonds. They do it because they BELIEVE they're doing something good, even though it's obvious to anyone with one eye and half sense that it's just the government hoovering up pocket change from poor people.

Same principle, just a different demographic.

Millenials will line up to buy the coins. They won't be upset even if they lose every last penny. Because they've taken ACTION.

You have a point.  Make them think they take ACTION.  That's serious high dollar T-Shirt money.  RE could cash in.  his 'SUN' T-Shirts were a big hit so he could make serious bank.  He would have to do it fast because there is no science that says this could work.  Yet Brazil is not a good place for someone to escape to with the cash these days.  Especially someone who has expressed leftist ideology on the web.  RE better leave the opportunity alone. 
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Online Eddie

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2018, 07:20:55 AM »
I can't write anything else that might make this idea seem dumb, or that I'm not in it for the right reasons.. I need to start promoting it seriously, and I don't want to be accused of using the death of the planet to make money (again).

Seriously, it's a good idea.

First step, start the non-profit. (RE has already done this).

Second step. Come up with a clear concept...like some fraction of every coin bought goes to plant trees or somehow sequester carbon in a real and measurable way.

Find the right brand. GreenCoin already exists, it is a coin that supposedly goes to "finance green technologies" which is pretty vague, in my book. Probably a scam, too.

Shit....too late. It's already been done.

https://carboncoin.cc/

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2018, 07:23:01 AM »
I can't write anything else that might make this idea seem dumb, or that I'm not in it for the right reasons.. I need to start promoting it seriously, and I don't want to be accused of using the death of the planet to make money (again).

Seriously, it's a good idea.

First step, start the non-profit. (RE has already done this).

Second step. Come up with a clear concept...like some fraction of every coin bought goes to plant trees or somehow sequester carbon in a real and measurable way.

Find the right brand. GreenCoin already exists, it is a coin that supposedly goes to "finance green technologies" which is pretty vague, in my book. Probably a scam, too.

Shit....too late. It's already been done.

https://carboncoin.cc/

I'll do the T-Shirts.  :icon_sunny:

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Offline K-Dog

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2018, 07:31:16 AM »
OK, but be careful, you can get in trouble with this stuff.  This company,

https://www.powerbalance.com/default/

lost a twenty million dollar judgement against them and had to go bankrupt.  A Chinese investor bought up the scraps and that is why  there is still a website.  The lawsuit established that the company knowingly made claims they knew not to be true.  Claims with no scientific basis.

You can find out about it here:

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2014/10/14/yanss-podcast-034-after-this-therefore-because-of-this-your-weird-relationship-with-cause-and-effect/

Quote
Still, the Power Balance bracelet is just another in a long line of magical items and alternative cures that people have fallen for since there have been people, and there will be many more thanks to the post hoc fallacy. After this, therefore because of this – that’s the fallacy. It’s a rule of thumb, a heuristic, that guided my grandparent’s farm, filled the Foxfire books, and for the most part got human beings out of the nomadic lifestyle and into yoga, but it isn’t perfect. Whether you go to the doctor for your cold, or you decide to eat a ball of cobwebs, or eat nothing but grapefruit for a week, your cold will get better. Which one then is the true cure? Maybe all of them. Maybe none. That’s our predicament. We are stuck with this weird brain that’s so bad at pinpointing cause and effect that one of us can run an entire country, give rousing speeches that change the world, yet not possess the skepticism required to prevent him from handing over $30 for a hologram with a magic spell inside.

Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Online Eddie

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2018, 07:35:56 AM »
I may not be good at coming up with good ideas, but I am really good at falling down rabbit holes in pursuit of good ideas.

Check this out.....bit of a segue, but very interesing, nonetheless.

There is a Terra Coin..but it isn't to raise funds for environmental causes......it's meant to take money away from governments and banks.

I like it.

Y'all wannabe revolutionaries? This way to the front.

Screen Shot 2018 11 12 at 9 33 48 AM
Screen Shot 2018 11 12 at 9 33 48 AM

https://terracoin.io/
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Online Eddie

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Re: Let The Wild Geoengineering Rumpus Begin
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2018, 07:40:57 AM »
OK, but be careful, you can get in trouble with this stuff.  This company,

https://www.powerbalance.com/default/

lost a twenty million dollar judgement against them and had to go bankrupt.  A Chinese investor bought up the scraps and that is why  there is still a website.  The lawsuit established that the company knowingly made claims they knew not to be true.  Claims with no scientific basis.

You can find out about it here:

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2014/10/14/yanss-podcast-034-after-this-therefore-because-of-this-your-weird-relationship-with-cause-and-effect/

Quote
Still, the Power Balance bracelet is just another in a long line of magical items and alternative cures that people have fallen for since there have been people, and there will be many more thanks to the post hoc fallacy. After this, therefore because of this – that’s the fallacy. It’s a rule of thumb, a heuristic, that guided my grandparent’s farm, filled the Foxfire books, and for the most part got human beings out of the nomadic lifestyle and into yoga, but it isn’t perfect. Whether you go to the doctor for your cold, or you decide to eat a ball of cobwebs, or eat nothing but grapefruit for a week, your cold will get better. Which one then is the true cure? Maybe all of them. Maybe none. That’s our predicament. We are stuck with this weird brain that’s so bad at pinpointing cause and effect that one of us can run an entire country, give rousing speeches that change the world, yet not possess the skepticism required to prevent him from handing over $30 for a hologram with a magic spell inside.

That's why so many fundraising efforts say that their mission is to "raise awareness" of some insurmountable problem. No way that creates a legal liability if nothing happens.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

 

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