AuthorTopic: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey  (Read 13143 times)

Offline RE

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🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - Update
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2019, 01:25:24 AM »
Now UP on Global Economic Intersection!  :icon_sunny:

http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901070237

We also currently have FEATURE POSITION on the Homepage!

http://econintersect.com/

Don't know how long that will last though.

Not too bad for a "wacky" survey.

RE
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Offline Eddie

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - Update
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2019, 07:02:40 AM »
Now UP on Global Economic Intersection!  :icon_sunny:

http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901070237

We also currently have FEATURE POSITION on the Homepage!

http://econintersect.com/

Don't know how long that will last though.

Not too bad for a "wacky" survey.

RE

Interesting phenomenon in progress. I've been thinking. In the past five years, the interest in doom has faded way back All those dire collapse blogs.....Xray Mike, a bunch of others.....just faded. I assume those guys are still alive. I assume they haven't really changed their outlook. I haven't.

I know doom is real....but it's worth noting that with the general population, it only becomes a topic worth reading about when the stock market starts to correct and financial panic sets in. Looks like doom will be back on the front burner now for a while.

Which is okay I guess. But one thing looks clear to me. An awful lot of doomers only come out of the woodwork when the situation seems to be getting dire.  Maybe some of it is fear....which is certainly justified, in my book. But a lot of it also seems to me to be wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood.

Those who have failed to thrive in BAU get a chance to cheer as America's big corporations take a hit on their stock prices. Their pent up frustration over wealth inequality can find an outlet....look, see, all that money, up in smoke. Serves 'em right, the greedy bastards.

But that's a short-sided view. Crashing markets mean more lost jobs, more personal tragedies for ordinary people. Maybe energy consumption might drop off. Good thing for the planet...but is it enough to matter? Probably not.

Survey says lots of doomers are highly educated. I'm not as worried about them in the short run. They have good jobs and lives and reasons to hang on.

The rest of the doom aware crowd might not be so stable. They are the ones to watch. Where do we go from here? My guess, if the economy  stabilizes, they will drift back off into don't-give-a-shit land. If not, they might get rowdy. Turn to populist leaders promising everything and delivering nothing.

Congrats on the survey. Sorry I called it wacky. I think it netted lots of good information.



What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Surly1

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - Update
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2019, 06:28:46 PM »
Now UP on Global Economic Intersection!  :icon_sunny:

http://econintersect.com/pages/opinion/opinion.php?post=201901070237

We also currently have FEATURE POSITION on the Homepage!

http://econintersect.com/

Don't know how long that will last though.

Not too bad for a "wacky" survey.

RE


2019 Collapse Survey Results: Energy And Technology

Written by Reverse Engineer, Doomstead Diner

Discuss this article at the Survey Table inside the Diner. Special note:

No parts of this study may be used on commercial websites that use Advertising or sell Merchandise such as the Author's books, or which have Paywalls without the express consent of the Doomstead Diner and the Sustaining Universal Needs Foundation. None of the charts and graphs may be altered in any way or the copyright and logos removed from those charts.

charge.of.the.light.brigade

Read more ...


As it appears in the daily email blast from GEI.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline AJ

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - Update
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2019, 04:39:35 AM »

Which is okay I guess. But one thing looks clear to me. An awful lot of doomers only come out of the woodwork when the situation seems to be getting dire.  Maybe some of it is fear....which is certainly justified, in my book. But a lot of it also seems to me to be wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood.

But that's a short-sided view. Crashing markets mean more lost jobs, more personal tragedies for ordinary people. Maybe energy consumption might drop off. Good thing for the planet...but is it enough to matter? Probably not.

Survey says lots of doomers are highly educated. I'm not as worried about them in the short run. They have good jobs and lives and reasons to hang on.

The rest of the doom aware crowd might not be so stable. They are the ones to watch. Where do we go from here? My guess, if the economy  stabilizes, they will drift back off into don't-give-a-shit land. If not, they might get rowdy. Turn to populist leaders promising everything and delivering nothing.

All good observations Eddie,
I think for me that the main reason is "wishing for bad luck"(wish fulfillment???). I am surrounded by people (wife, some kids, most everyone else) who are into BAU and think my focus on permaculture, sustainability and Doom are just plain crazy. I do have a couple of kids and a brother who actually get it and are Doom lite. When you put a lot of emotional energy into something you want to be proven right. The problem for myself and others of course it the "rowdy" part of your message. When SHTF no one knows who will get spattered.
I do also think there is a small chance (McPherson notwithstanding) that collapse could save some part of the planet for some homo saps.
AJ
Nullis in Verba

Offline Surly1

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - Update
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2019, 08:11:51 AM »

Which is okay I guess. But one thing looks clear to me. An awful lot of doomers only come out of the woodwork when the situation seems to be getting dire.  Maybe some of it is fear....which is certainly justified, in my book. But a lot of it also seems to me to be wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood.

But that's a short-sided view. Crashing markets mean more lost jobs, more personal tragedies for ordinary people. Maybe energy consumption might drop off. Good thing for the planet...but is it enough to matter? Probably not.

Survey says lots of doomers are highly educated. I'm not as worried about them in the short run. They have good jobs and lives and reasons to hang on.

The rest of the doom aware crowd might not be so stable. They are the ones to watch. Where do we go from here? My guess, if the economy  stabilizes, they will drift back off into don't-give-a-shit land. If not, they might get rowdy. Turn to populist leaders promising everything and delivering nothing.

All good observations Eddie,
I think for me that the main reason is "wishing for bad luck"(wish fulfillment???). I am surrounded by people (wife, some kids, most everyone else) who are into BAU and think my focus on permaculture, sustainability and Doom are just plain crazy. I do have a couple of kids and a brother who actually get it and are Doom lite. When you put a lot of emotional energy into something you want to be proven right. The problem for myself and others of course it the "rowdy" part of your message. When SHTF no one knows who will get spattered.
I do also think there is a small chance (McPherson notwithstanding) that collapse could save some part of the planet for some homo saps.
AJ

A "focus on permaculture, sustainability and Doom" are going to appear extremely contrarian, "just plain crazy" to people deeply invested in BAU and presentism. It is a lonely road not often taken.

As RE has demonstrated, the math on NTHE makes the likelihood extremely small.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline K-Dog

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2019, 09:52:25 AM »

Which is okay I guess. But one thing looks clear to me. An awful lot of doomers only come out of the woodwork when the situation seems to be getting dire.  Maybe some of it is fear....which is certainly justified, in my book. But a lot of it also seems to me to be wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood.

But that's a short-sided view. Crashing markets mean more lost jobs, more personal tragedies for ordinary people. Maybe energy consumption might drop off. Good thing for the planet...but is it enough to matter? Probably not.

Survey says lots of doomers are highly educated. I'm not as worried about them in the short run. They have good jobs and lives and reasons to hang on.

The rest of the doom aware crowd might not be so stable. They are the ones to watch. Where do we go from here? My guess, if the economy  stabilizes, they will drift back off into don't-give-a-shit land. If not, they might get rowdy. Turn to populist leaders promising everything and delivering nothing.

All good observations Eddie,
I think for me that the main reason is "wishing for bad luck"(wish fulfillment???). I am surrounded by people (wife, some kids, most everyone else) who are into BAU and think my focus on permaculture, sustainability and Doom are just plain crazy. I do have a couple of kids and a brother who actually get it and are Doom lite. When you put a lot of emotional energy into something you want to be proven right. The problem for myself and others of course it the "rowdy" part of your message. When SHTF no one knows who will get spattered.
I do also think there is a small chance (McPherson notwithstanding) that collapse could save some part of the planet for some homo saps.
AJ

A "focus on permaculture, sustainability and Doom" are going to appear extremely contrarian, "just plain crazy" to people deeply invested in BAU and presentism. It is a lonely road not often taken.

As RE has demonstrated, the math on NTHE makes the likelihood extremely small.

Ask yourself if your truth is a good truth.  If you find it is then live it without hesitation.  BAU is like heroin to most people.  If they stop pretending for a moment they are part of the churn of daily life; even if all they do is hide from the dizzy vertigo of it they would find a deep emptiness where their soul should be.  The first look at that man in the mirror is always a hideous sight.  How can't it be.  The un-tempered raw expression a particularly twisted evolution, humanity.  Facing that man in the mirror the first time is hard for anybody and BAU keeps most people from ever having to look.



Those who would wish another to look are crazy by definition.



« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 09:57:46 AM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline Eddie

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey - Update
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2019, 11:57:45 AM »

Which is okay I guess. But one thing looks clear to me. An awful lot of doomers only come out of the woodwork when the situation seems to be getting dire.  Maybe some of it is fear....which is certainly justified, in my book. But a lot of it also seems to me to be wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood.

But that's a short-sided view. Crashing markets mean more lost jobs, more personal tragedies for ordinary people. Maybe energy consumption might drop off. Good thing for the planet...but is it enough to matter? Probably not.

Survey says lots of doomers are highly educated. I'm not as worried about them in the short run. They have good jobs and lives and reasons to hang on.

The rest of the doom aware crowd might not be so stable. They are the ones to watch. Where do we go from here? My guess, if the economy  stabilizes, they will drift back off into don't-give-a-shit land. If not, they might get rowdy. Turn to populist leaders promising everything and delivering nothing.

All good observations Eddie,
I think for me that the main reason is "wishing for bad luck"(wish fulfillment???). I am surrounded by people (wife, some kids, most everyone else) who are into BAU and think my focus on permaculture, sustainability and Doom are just plain crazy. I do have a couple of kids and a brother who actually get it and are Doom lite. When you put a lot of emotional energy into something you want to be proven right. The problem for myself and others of course it the "rowdy" part of your message. When SHTF no one knows who will get spattered.
I do also think there is a small chance (McPherson notwithstanding) that collapse could save some part of the planet for some homo saps.
AJ

I'm right there with you on the denial factors. Wives, even really smart ones, do not tend to be big picture thinkers. They focus on what is at hand. Some of that is probably genetic. Women are oriented toward their children, even after the children are grown. We've had exactly two regular female Diners, and one was banned as a troll.  But she got collapse, never mind she was a racist and a very angry old woman. The other was/is a real outlier who only occasionally participated, usually checking on RE's health....even though I know she gets doom, it does not consume her thoughts, I don't believe.

My wife is a skeptic, but (and I expect this applies to your wife as well) she does know I'm not stupid, so she really is just waiting until it's time for her to act in a more necessary role. Like a lot of people who listen to NPR and read the NYT, she has a huge normalcy bias. She thinks my food preps will someday end up in the landfill...and I hope she's right, but it's looking like she might be wrong. I'd rather BE wrong, but I keep prepping anyway.  I'm not wrong. Only the timing is unknown at this point.

My kids talk about "the zombie apocalypse" in a light-hearted way, but anybody under 40 with one eye and half sense knows the world is not as it should be. But they have to go on....what other choice is there, really?

People in general, except for people who read Beckwith and McKibben and people like that, don't really know what to believe. And I mean people CAPABLE of getting it, not stupid people. We have a whole industry in this country dedicated to spreading all kinds of false info....whatever you want to pay for, they can muddy the waters......sort of like that old criminal  lawyer ad......"a reasonable doubt for a reasonable fee".

My guess is it'll be further into the future. My very un-expert opinion is that Beckworth et.al. can see the big picture fine, but calling it in 36 months presumes trusting models that have never really been tested, and which  by necessity not only ignore positive feedback loops like the "methane gun", but also negative feedback loops, which might or might not exist.

I haven't read Beckworth's latest dire predictions....why bother? I'll know the problem when it gets here, which will no doubt be soon enough.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2019, 12:16:51 PM »
My current view has morphed too...like RE, I see it a little different than I did 8 years ago.

The dire predictions on climate might mean we die with our computers and cars still working fine. We might go from 21st century tech to tardigrades, in a couple of years. We could easily bypass the 19th century and the stone age both, in a hurry.

Heat can be dealt with if we have power. Without power, we're goners.  They might drop nukes just to try to cause a nuclear winter....

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline K-Dog

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2019, 01:15:49 PM »
False dichotomy and it results in paralysis.  NTE is unlikely.  All that is known now is that it will be horribly bad and a die-off is in the works.  Live for all the possibilities.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 09:22:44 PM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline AJ

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2019, 04:53:05 AM »
I'd wish for Nuclear Winter too, except for the fact that the amount of CO2 that it would put into the atmosphere would probably doom us once the ash that would cool us for a short time dissipated. Not to mention all the radiation from the Nuke bombs and the Nuke Puke plants going Fukushima.
My wife is very much like yours Eddie. Except she thinks my prepping is a cause to doubt my intelligence.
My son basically gets my doom argument but has taken the BAU has to go on as his only alternative to despondency. One of my daughters really gets doom and agrees with all my preps. She figures she will probably be dead in 10 years, so why invest in an advanced degree, enjoy life now (this from a Phi Beta Kappa in Neurobiology). She has a new friend who is a PhD candidate in Paleo-Geology who gets doom(climate catastrophe) too. It will be interesting to meet that person.
That site that JOW put up yesterday http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2019/ was really depressing. I read quite a bit there and I think that there are more and more scientists coming to the NTHE result than just Paul Beckwith and Guy McPherson. I dismissed McPherson a few years ago as a anomaly, maybe not so much anymore. Just saying that maybe this subject needs a rethink.
AJ
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Offline Eddie

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2019, 05:16:53 AM »
I have said in the past that geo-engineering is coming in a big way. Looks like that's getting more likely, and closer. Not that I expect that to go well.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Surly1

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2019, 05:33:45 AM »
I have said in the past that geo-engineering is coming in a big way. Looks like that's getting more likely, and closer. Not that I expect that to go well.

What could possibly go wrong?

Look at the sponsorship opportunities!

"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey gets picked up by Olduvai.ca
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2019, 12:59:14 PM »
I just wish he got the name right. 😠  It's DoomSTEAD Diner not DoomsDAY Diner!

Demographic Overview coming tomorrow to a Laptop near you.  :icon_sunny:

RE

https://olduvai.ca/?p=42636

The Future as Seen by the Doomers. It Will be the Seneca Rebound!
By olduvai in Energy, Survival on January 12, 2019.
The Future as Seen by the Doomers. It Will be the Seneca Rebound!


Recently, RE (Reverse Engineer) of the famed “Doomsday Diner”  ;D carried out an opinion poll among the people frequenting some of the most doomeristic/catastrophistic/millennialistic sites of the Web (including Ugo Bardi’s blog, Cassandra’s Legacy).

Refreshingly, a majority of the members of this group of hard-liners are in favor of renewable energy! Only 36% of the group think that renewable energy is useless, while 57% think it will power a sustainable technological civilization.

So, maybe you are one of those people who feel it is their duty to pester the discussions on this subject with your favorite statement that goes as “renewable energy plants are built using energy coming from fossil fuels, therefore will never be anything but fossil fuel extenders.” Then, know that not only you are wrong, you also understood nothing of the concept of EROI, and, finally, you are also a minority even among the minority of the millennialists of the Web.

Yes, the transition will not be easy, but renewable energy is the future of humankind. It is the Seneca Rebound, baby!

Tags: cassandra's legacy, collapse, doomsday diner, energy return on energy invested, eroi, future, renewable energy, seneca rebound, seneca sliff, survey, ugo bardi
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Offline Eddie

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2019, 01:28:48 PM »
Doomsday Diner.....I love it. ROTFLMAO!!!! I'm stealing that.

Congrats though. Well done.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: 🗳️ 2019 Collapse Political Survey
« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2019, 02:05:15 PM »
Doomsday Diner.....I love it. ROTFLMAO!!!! I'm stealing that.

Congrats though. Well done.

THX.  :icon_sunny:  It pays to be "wacky". lol.  You'll never live that one down.  ;D

Another one you will never live down in progress today.  Have a guess what it is I am DOING as we speak (well, text actually, but whatevah).

RE
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 02:54:33 PM by RE »
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