AuthorTopic: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web  (Read 2223 times)

Offline RE

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2018, 09:03:09 AM »
One left is historical and not represented by anyone in the country currently except RE and I.

I think we can include Surly in the club.  :icon_sunny:

RE

For sure;  But Surly has not been landing on Park Place as often as we have in this thread.



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Offline RE

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2018, 09:07:40 AM »
Suggest you do an image search on "Vice President of Diversity and Inclusion". You guys are totally clueless.

The "Special People" own the college campuses. Anecdotal evidence, yes. Lots of it.

You seek it out.  It's Confirmation Bias on Steroids.

I'm not clueless, BTW.  Not stupid or dim either.  Let's try to avoid the Ad Hom, shall we?

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2018, 10:34:45 AM »
I POINT it out. You and the other socialists here DENY it.

Reality will make us all accept the truth in the fullness of time. Time will tell.

I just don't think the Diner socialist contingent is reality based. EOM.

Sorry if I was ad hom.
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2018, 12:23:24 PM »

I can assure you that is the last thing the liberal establishment wants,. The left wants to silence them and smear them with anything they can get to stick. There are a slew of articles trying to do just that, and I already objected when Surly started posting them here. Because they were just hit pieces. Not a shred of truth in any of them.

I challenged him and I challenge you to prove your points with facts, and not just tell me you don't like Niall Ferguson  because he's highly educated, an erudite scholar and maybe a bit  snooty. Angry? Did we listen tot the same video? What angry things did he say?

//
They are questioning the accepted dogma of the liberal academic world, and the liberal political machine, which is a false narrative.


Oh, fuck this noise. If I have to rouse myself from my pallet of woe in a drug-induced haze to defend itself from ad nom bullshit own New Year's Eve, then all I can say is Happy New Year to you too, motherfucker.

Asvin and you posted little mini-hagiographies of Jordan Fucking Peterson, who decries the same "cultural Maoists" that Kunstler decried a couple of years ago when some young people made bold to challenge his whitemaleperks as an Intellectual Made Man at a speaking engagement on an Ivy League Cathedral. JHK apparently had to mop the flop sweat from his upper lip twice in this engagement, and the never of the challengers... one imagines he oping up a giant can of, "Don't You Know Who I AM" in thunderous, Episcopalian tones.

Lunkster has never been the same, his precious fee-fees so damaged by... the temerity. And now like Peterson, et al, he unpacks his little hate boner for "political correctness" at every opportunity, the better to become the darling of the rage spluttering right and other weak men who have no accomplishments aside from un unearned, accident of birth as a White American Man.

As I have said in this pagers before and will say to you again now, "political correctness" is what the oppressor classes call it when the traditionally oppressed make clear they are sick and tired of putting uo with their shit. Still true, ace.

Then I posted some diatribes in reply, which you libel with the above untruths, because they put them lie to bullshit in which you find such comfort and succor.

One of the ruses you resort to is the same one Ashvin like s to employ, namely assigning your opponent several hundred pages of homework before you respond. I am disinclined to spin up to speed on the disagreeable when I can barely make time for the essential. I don't know and don't give a fuck about Ferguson, but whenever I hear about one of the retrogrades rattling on about 'free speech," you can be sure it's as a marketing tactic, not a core moral value. The speech they are interested in is their own, not yours or mine.

Peterson became the darling of the fashy-haircut crowd when he picked an imaginary free speech fight over transgender pronouns in Canada, for instance, recently sued two professors for criticizing him and his views. This is Viagra for the right wing rage boner, because nothing gets a neo-nazi in full rut more than a case of incipient victimhood. Also don't lose sight of the fact that "free speech" and "platforming" arguments are often used as proxies for actual arguments. “These cowards won’t debate me!” is an easier sell than “Let me tell you about why I think 200 years of science is wrong even though I can’t get my ideas published in a scientific journal.”

Most white people, and in particular white males, oppose the notion of white privilege because, once you acknowledge that to be born while and male in America is be born on third base while insisting you hit a triple, you are the  left with the unpleasant implications. As white men we process the world via our own cognitive frame, take in new information, sift through the data, sort the important from the unimportant and decide how to feel about it all. Thus we as white people view our privilege as natural and invisible. If I had a dollar for every time a white person has told me "no one ever gave me anything" in the context of race, I'd own my own island.

Equality for the traditionally oppressed this translates to a loss issue for poor whites.  If black folk, other minorities, immigrants and refugees have "cut ahead of them in line," meaning the government caters to others before them, they become angry. Although they never question why they should occupy the first position. That implicit assumption — I should be tended to before all others — encapsulates how they view white privilege as natural and invisible. It's n the DNA of this country, including the Constitution.

And now we find ourselves at the end of cheap energy and the beginning of unpayable debt, and now the benefits of whiteitide are not so easily observed by poor whites in eastern Ohio, or West Virginia. But the mantle of privilege, that assurance that, no matter what, "I'm white and you're not," will continue to be exploited by the divide-and-conquer crowd.

Where you see "Red Guards" (as if), I see waves of armed brownshirts.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2018, 12:46:01 PM »

I just don't think the Diner socialist contingent is reality based. EOM.


Of course you don't  You are a dedicated Capitalist.  You'll have to deal with the fact though that despite some small enclaves for Nazis like TBP, the Collapse Blogosphere is overwhelmingly lefty.  Wait till you see the stats.  lol. So unless you wanna go back to that sewer to discuss your daily dose of doom, you're just going to continue to get hammered here.  EOS.

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Offline AJ

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2018, 02:54:21 PM »
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ
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Offline g

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2018, 03:15:37 PM »
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ

                           
                                     

Offline Eddie

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2018, 03:43:01 PM »
One of the ruses you resort to is the same one Ashvin like s to employ, namely assigning your opponent several hundred pages of homework before you respond. I am disinclined to spin up to speed on the disagreeable when I can barely make time for the essential. I don't know and don't give a fuck about Ferguson, but whenever I hear about one of the retrogrades rattling on about 'free speech," you can be sure it's as a marketing tactic, not a core moral value. The speech they are interested in is their own, not yours or mine.


I don't ever resort to ruses of any kind. I don't need to.

Why the fuck would I deliberately lie? My well-being doesn't depend on kissing the corporatists asses. My position as a healthcare provider puts me in a position to be fucked over by them every day. But that doesn't make what's going on now on the left any easier for me to swallow. I see both sides, very clearly...and you do not.


This whole idea that I'm some kind of apologist for capitalism would be completely laughable, if it weren't obvious you're hanging it on me as a target.....which is absolutely exactly what Peterson, Weinstein, and many other respected academic people are having happen to them too. It's the MO of the left leaning mob to try to smear anybody who critiques them and calls them out on their increasingly extreme strident tone.

News flash. Eric Weinstein is NOT a conservative. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is an advocate for human rights, who happens to criticize Islam for its subjugation of women. They aren't on the alt.right. Neither am I.
 
I'm the most straight up guy on this site. I call 'em exactly like I see 'em, and I  don't give a rat's ass what you or RE or K-Dog think.  All three of you have put your hopes and dreams on an ideology that I once went along with myself. But now, it's pretty clear that it's turning into something far different than what it started out to be.

I just wanted you to listen to these guys because they make good sense. I'm sorry none of you has an attention span longer than five minutes. Truth is, you can't get to the heart of real issues without spending some time. Which, I guess, is why your responses are always canned and obviously aren't developed after actually paying attention long enough to know what the conversation is even about.

I guess all you guys are just like everybody else out there. You pick your team and you root for them. Once you pick your team, its just rah, rah, rah for our side. Typical short-sighted human behavior. You're way too invested now to ever question the narrative you've been sold.

I think all of us know capitalism fucked the planet. We're done. Stick a fork in it. Yes, there is an underclass. I've spent my whole life trying to stay the fuck out of it.

What you stand to find out, if you live long enough, is that mobs of people who don't think at all.....who form their opinions based on poorly conceived, erroneous assumptions that only appeal to base emotions........ fuck other people. Innocent people, not just Wall Street tycoons.

You'll never meet me on the barricades....because I'm not a true believer in anything....except maybe the truth. I won't be wearing any colored shirts....nor will you find me marching for the rights of the downtrodden poor. I'm too busy avoiding becoming one of them myself.

And all the special people you think its your duty to stand up for? They will use you like the useful idiot you happen to be, until the day it's your turn to be their target du jour.

Ruse indeed.

Wasted time, thats what it is. I should know better.





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Offline Eddie

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2018, 03:53:57 PM »
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ

You're a well-intended guy who is trying to own his own part in contributing to making this a fucked up world.

For your benevolence, the people you feel guilty about getting screwed over will have you for lunch one day.

There is no redemption. If you gave every cent you've accumulated to the Socialist Workers Party and marched with them every day, the only thing they'd ever give you back would be the end of a shovel, to let you dig ditches for your sin of having been moderately financially successful. They hate your guts.

Your attitude is not congruent with long term survival in the coming bad times. Just sayin'

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2018, 04:07:15 PM »
I'm the most straight up guy on this site.

 ::)

What poll did you take to get that result?  I vote for myself as most straight up guy.

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Offline K-Dog

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2019, 01:09:14 AM »
She's his second wife.  Ayaan Hirsi Ali <= Council on Foreign Relations.

You gonna tell us to invest in the Carlyle group next?

More pomposity.

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Offline AJ

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2019, 04:23:37 AM »
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ

You're a well-intended guy who is trying to own his own part in contributing to making this a fucked up world.

For your benevolence, the people you feel guilty about getting screwed over will have you for lunch one day.

There is no redemption. If you gave every cent you've accumulated to the Socialist Workers Party and marched with them every day, the only thing they'd ever give you back would be the end of a shovel, to let you dig ditches for your sin of having been moderately financially successful. They hate your guts.

Your attitude is not congruent with long term survival in the coming bad times. Just sayin'
Yeah, you're right I'm trying to atone for my part in fucking up the future of this planet. I think most of us did that through ignorance at how things worked and the ramifications of low ERoEI. I do think there are capitalists out there that 40 years ago knew that they were sending us down this path and didn't give a damn. Just like the corporate thugs (and a lot of the "scientists") working for big tobacco.
I might join in a march now and then, but anything more I leave to the young.
My job now is the C5 approach and integrate (and ingratiate) with my rural neighbors. Being a loud obnoxious leftist wouldn't help me with most of the rural folk around me, although there are a surprising amount of ex-hippies living in Oregon. :o
I am always sceptical of "True Believers" in any cause (Eric Hoffer). I could always be wrong and am many times. I am always leery of hubris and is probably why I have not written much here at the Diner.
AJ
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Offline RE

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2019, 05:24:52 AM »
I am always leery of hubris and is probably why I have not written much here at the Diner.

You're doing pretty good now!  :icon_sunny:


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Offline Eddie

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2019, 07:48:18 AM »
She's his second wife.  Ayaan Hirsi Ali <= Council on Foreign Relations.

You gonna tell us to invest in the Carlyle group next?

More pomposity.
No, I'm going to suggest you invest in your selves by putting money into projects like Power Ledger and Celsius Network, but I doubt you'll listen to me on that either.

Niall Ferguson and his wife are conservative, politically. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is strongly against the rise of Muslim political influence and Sharia Law in the Netherlands, where she came, fleeing those influences. Her story is interesting,and worth reading about. She was in Parliament, and she wasn't on the extreme right, as I understand it. She WAS, however, tarred with that brush.

I personally think the  huge surge of Muslim influence is tearing Europe apart, so I agree with her, at least as far as I can see. The meme of unlimited immigration as a positive...that societies can be "melting pots"and that  diversity is some universally desirable norm..... that we should embrace blindly....is flat wrong.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Niall Ferguson On The Intellectual Dark Web
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2019, 10:13:24 AM »
Help!! I might be rich, but I still think I am left (at least left of democrats). I want higher (onerous) taxes on the wealthy. I want it distributed to the poor and less fortunate, I want free medical/dental care for all. Why are all the doctors (Hippocratic Oath hypocrites) and dentists against socialised medicine?? Cause they have a scam going. (Same with lawyers!) The 1950's income tax structure is what this country needs.

As a old white guy I know I have lived a privileged existence in this country. I was born on 2nd base (I take my religious indoctrination as something holding me back from a 3rd base birth). Sure I worked my way through college and law school. AND getting and keeping jobs was easy. If I had been born Hispanic, or African-American all those things would not be givens. I never felt racism until I started dating my wife (Chinese American). My future mother-in-law knew everyone was inferior to the Chinese (how's that for turning old white privilege on it's head?). She had a special word in Cantonese for white people (lau fan (sp?)). It meant "white devil". She called me that with no ill will, laughed when she did it. That made me look at race from a different perspective and realize that if racism was institutionalized against whites I wouldn't have gotten all the breaks I did.
AJ

You're a well-intended guy who is trying to own his own part in contributing to making this a fucked up world.

For your benevolence, the people you feel guilty about getting screwed over will have you for lunch one day.

There is no redemption. If you gave every cent you've accumulated to the Socialist Workers Party and marched with them every day, the only thing they'd ever give you back would be the end of a shovel, to let you dig ditches for your sin of having been moderately financially successful. They hate your guts.

Your attitude is not congruent with long term survival in the coming bad times. Just sayin'
Yeah, you're right I'm trying to atone for my part in fucking up the future of this planet. I think most of us did that through ignorance at how things worked and the ramifications of low ERoEI. I do think there are capitalists out there that 40 years ago knew that they were sending us down this path and didn't give a damn. Just like the corporate thugs (and a lot of the "scientists") working for big tobacco.
I might join in a march now and then, but anything more I leave to the young.
My job now is the C5 approach and integrate (and ingratiate) with my rural neighbors. Being a loud obnoxious leftist wouldn't help me with most of the rural folk around me, although there are a surprising amount of ex-hippies living in Oregon. :o
I am always sceptical of "True Believers" in any cause (Eric Hoffer). I could always be wrong and am many times. I am always leery of hubris and is probably why I have not written much here at the Diner.
AJ

I was once very close, philosophically, to your POV, and also to that of Surly. Over time, mostly over the last decade, I've come around to a different way of thinking.

I don't hate on anybody, and I recognize that the world could have gone a different way, one that might have resulted in a more egalitarian and just society, and more towards a better, more sustainable way of living.

But the window for that has passed, and Mother Earth's bounty has been traded for Chevys and iPhones, and Twinkies and millions of cubic tons of garbage and toxic sludge.

The colonial model of displacing indigenous people....using the international banking pyramid scheme to make weak sovereign countries into vassal states, extracting the resources and creating slums...that is responsible for where we are. It's an evil system, and the people that run it have known that for a long time.....not sure, maybe from the beginning.

Making myself into somebody like my old "friend" Palloy, would be one way for me to deal with that. I could "live more simply so that others might simply live", as the saying goes. Sounds good, on the face of it.

But....for one thing, at this juncture, my doing that would be pissing in the wind. It wouldn't make one iota of difference. I also think that there might be a little bit of a false narrative there. That's a little hard to explain in a short comment here, but I just don't completely buy the whole enchilada. Like most slogans, that one glosses over a very complicated reality.

Taking that road would make my life immeasurably harder, and interfere with my plans to make my own personal resilience plan as good as I can make it. 

I've decided that other people's opinions about white privilege, who owes what to whom because of what has happened in the past...all that....is fairly irrelevant to me. And.....I don't think the things that have been tried to fix those problems have taken all the facts of evolutionary biology into account. And those things matter, tremendously.

All the attempts at making our society color-blind, at leveling the playing field, etc, etc....it has done some good, but it has come at a cost, and it's had a lot of unintended consequences. The approach, however well intended, was really simplistic and has been completely lacking in understanding....about many highly relevant factors. The result of two generations of top-down mandated social justice, has created a society full of incredibly delusional, silly people.

I'm "woke" now...but it ain't the kind of woke the silly SJW's are talking about.

I'm very clear on who I am and where my responsibilities lie. All this class struggle bullshit is basically the mewling cries of a culture that is about to pass into history and probably be forgotten forever.. We're living at the end of the world, as we know it. If anyone survives, the society we have a hundred years from now will be radically different.

Guilt is wasted. I have no time for silly shit. I need to get on with it.



What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

 

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