AuthorTopic: How Rich are you? What is your Class? Where do you fit in the Wealth Distribution of Global Resources?  (Read 1360 times)

Offline RE

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I had an uncle who WAS a garbage man. I know the difference.

So do I.  Garbage Men Sanitation Engineers are Middle Class.  I had a cousin who was an SE for NYC.  Union Job, pretty good pay and you could retire early.  He did 25 years and retired at 45.

RE

That's a UNION garbageman working in the highest paid urban center in the world, and it's the way it USED to be, when pension funds were actually THERE at the end. If that's still possible it won't be for much longer.

My uncle went down pretty fast after he quit work. He drank too much his whole life and when he stopped the daily physical labor, diabetes and and the usual self-inflicted ailments took him down fast. I think they gave him painkillers too. The last time I saw him he had gone from being this little Irish-looking leprechaun to a bloated, obese pile of human misery.

That's another thing to consider. If an illness or accident can take you out of the upper or middle class just like that, and those things happen all the time, how meaningful is it to talk about who is upper or middle class?

You're a lot less likely to drop out of the Rich than the Middle Class with an unexpected illness.  So, very meaningful.

RE
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Offline Ashvin

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I had an uncle who WAS a garbage man. I know the difference.

So do I.  Garbage Men Sanitation Engineers are Middle Class.  I had a cousin who was an SE for NYC.  Union Job, pretty good pay and you could retire early.  He did 25 years and retired at 45.

RE

That's a UNION garbageman working in the highest paid urban center in the world, and it's the way it USED to be, when pension funds were actually THERE at the end. If that's still possible it won't be for much longer.

My uncle went down pretty fast after he quit work. He drank too much his whole life and when he stopped the daily physical labor, diabetes and and the usual self-inflicted ailments took him down fast. I think they gave him painkillers too. The last time I saw him he had gone from being this little Irish-looking leprechaun to a bloated, obese pile of human misery.

That's another thing to consider. If an illness or accident can take you out of the upper or middle class just like that, and those things happen all the time, how meaningful is it to talk about who is upper or middle class?

You're a lot less likely to drop out of the Rich than the Middle Class with an unexpected illness.  So, very meaningful.

RE

Why? Even assuming your insurance covers most of the costs, if it's severe enough to prevent you from working full time or perhaps at all, it won't take you long to start losing significant income and assets.

Offline RE

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I had an uncle who WAS a garbage man. I know the difference.

So do I.  Garbage Men Sanitation Engineers are Middle Class.  I had a cousin who was an SE for NYC.  Union Job, pretty good pay and you could retire early.  He did 25 years and retired at 45.

RE

That's a UNION garbageman working in the highest paid urban center in the world, and it's the way it USED to be, when pension funds were actually THERE at the end. If that's still possible it won't be for much longer.

My uncle went down pretty fast after he quit work. He drank too much his whole life and when he stopped the daily physical labor, diabetes and and the usual self-inflicted ailments took him down fast. I think they gave him painkillers too. The last time I saw him he had gone from being this little Irish-looking leprechaun to a bloated, obese pile of human misery.

That's another thing to consider. If an illness or accident can take you out of the upper or middle class just like that, and those things happen all the time, how meaningful is it to talk about who is upper or middle class?

You're a lot less likely to drop out of the Rich than the Middle Class with an unexpected illness.  So, very meaningful.

RE

Why? Even assuming your insurance covers most of the costs, if it's severe enough to prevent you from working full time or perhaps at all, it won't take you long to start losing significant income and assets.

First of all, Rich people can afford more comprehensive insurance with lower deductibles.  If you are say a member of the "lower rich" (we'll subdivide the classes some more) making $300K after taxes you can spend $5K/month on insurance with a low deductible for $60K per year for 20% of your income.

A "Middle" Middle Class person making $60K after taxes could maybe spend $2K.month, have a larger deductible and that would be 40% of his income.  Beyond that, the rich person can self-insure as well, sell off some of his portfolio or real estate to handle a big illness and not fall out of the class and into destitution.

You have a much bigger buffer if you are rich.

RE
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 02:21:26 PM by RE »
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Offline RE

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🛌 How Big or Tiny of an Apartment Can the Median Household Income Afford
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2019, 03:10:09 AM »
I won't be moving back to NY Shity anytime soon.  ::)

RE

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&biw=1440&bih=725&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=UBGvXJv3MIHQ9APolK3ICw&q=capsule+apartment&oq=capsule+apartment&gs_l=img.3..0i30l4j0i5i30l3j0i8i30.46024.50309..52594...0.0..0.169.883.0j7......1....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i7i30j0i7i5i30.e4k_qdbFj6s#imgrc=1tceVGeB-olUiM:


How Big or Tiny of an Apartment Can the Median Household Income Afford to Rent in the 100 Largest US Cities?



How Big or Tiny of an Apartment Can the Median Household Income Afford to Rent in the 100 Largest US Cities?

In some cities, you get what is considered a walk-in closet of a McMansion.

It’s not totally fair to compare rents in Tulsa with rents in San Francisco because household incomes are different as well. One way to look at this is to figure out how big of an apartment a household can rent by paying 30% of the local median household income in rent. And you guessed it, in a number of cities the local median household income, as high as it may be, can only rent what would be considered a walk-in closet in a McMansion.

Many households in expensive cities such as New York City or San Francisco pay far more in rent than the 30% of their pre-tax household income. 50% is not unheard of. The median asking rent for a two-bedroom apartment in San Francisco currently runs $4,600 a month.

A household signing the lease today would have to make $184,000 a year before taxes to spend 30% of their income on rent. If that household makes “only” $110,000 in income, rent would eat up 50% of pre-tax household income.

So here is a look at the 100 most populous US cities (with New York City broken up into its boroughs), and what size apartment a household earning the median household income can afford by paying 30% of their pre-tax income in rent.

The analysis was done by RENTCafe, using average rent data from Yardi Matrix and median household income data from the Census Bureau’s 2017 ACS, adjusted for inflation to reflect 2019 values. Household income includes all forms of pretax income from wages, interest, dividends, Social Security, etc., earned by all members over the age of 15, but does not include capital gains. Median household income means that 50% earn more, and 50% earn less.

Average apartment size varies by city.

Before we get to what apartment size they can afford, there is the issue of average size, which varies sharply by city. The table below shows the 10 cities with the smallest average apartments. They include the usual suspects with the highest rents: Honolulu with the most minuscule average apartment size of 561 square feet, but also three boroughs of New York City (Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens), Seattle, San Francisco, Washington DC, and Chicago … and the unusual suspect, Paradise, NV. If your smartphone clips the table on the right, hold your device in landscape position:

  City/Borough State Avg size Avg. rent
1 Honolulu  HI 561 $1,603
2 Brooklyn  NY 697 $2,796
3 Seattle  WA 698 $2,045
4 Newark  NJ 704 $1,176
5 Manhattan NY 723 $4,113
6 Queens  NY 731 $2,195
7 Washington  DC 745 $2,133
8 Chicago  IL 747 $1,898
9 San Francisco  CA 748 $3,607
10 Paradise  NV 753 $863

At the other end of the spectrum are the cities with the largest average apartment sizes, all of them close to 1,000 square feet, and the sport reasonable average rents:

  City/Borough State Avg size Avg. rent
1 Henderson  NV 991 $1,261
2 Chesapeake  VA 979 $1,207
3 Atlanta  GA 978 $1,425
4 Virginia Beach  VA 972 $1,176
5 Jacksonville  FL 966 $1,063
6 Gilbert  AZ 962 $1,240
7 Raleigh  NC 960 $1,164
8 Orlando  FL 958 $1,402
9 North Las Vegas  NV 958 $1,050
10 Scottsdale  AZ 948 $1,471

So what size apartment can that household afford?

To answer that question, RENTCafe looked at how many square feet you can rent with 30% of the median income of renter-occupied households, given the average rent per square foot in that city.

In only 14 of the 100 cities can 30% of this median household income rent an apartment that is larger than average for that city. At the top is Gilbert, AZ, where this household can afford the largest apartment (1,174 square feet). Some of the cities are on the list because household incomes are very high, and others are on this list because rents are low and apartments are on average larger:

  City/Borough State Afford size Avg size Avg. rent
1 Gilbert  AZ 1,174 962 $1,240
2 Plano  TX 1,137 935 $1,278
3 Wichita  KS 965 792 $643
4 Tulsa  OK 960 820 $685
5 Chandler  AZ 1,069 940 $1,287
6 Oklahoma City  OK 973 849 $754
7 Virginia Beach  VA 1,077 972 $1,176
8 North Las Vegas  NV 1,033 958 $1,050
9 Irving  TX 912 852 $1,146
10 Paradise  NV 790 753 $863
11 Arlington  VA 902 866 $2,149
12 Fremont  CA 843 831 $2,406
13 Henderson  NV 995 991 $1,261
14 Bakersfield  CA 862 861 $992

And finally, here are all 100 cities in order of how big or tiny of an apartment, in square feet, these folks can rent with 30% of the median household income. For example, in Brooklyn’s case, these folks can afford to rent a bare room of 15 by 18 square feet, which is not exactly huge. You can search the list with the search function in your browser. If your smartphone clips the table on the right, hold your device in landscape position:

  City/Borough State Afford size Avg size Avg. rent
1 Brooklyn  NY 265 697 $2,796
2 Boston  MA 266 813 $3,325
3 Manhattan NY 290 723 $4,113
4 Los Angeles  CA 333 792 $2,463
5 Oakland  CA 340 794 $2,684
6 Philadelphia  PA 368 798 $1,592
7 Chicago  IL 370 747 $1,898
8 Cleveland  OH 372 805 $1,076
9 Jersey City  NJ 372 832 $2,925
10 Detroit  MI 376 803 $1,055
11 Hialeah  FL 376 830 $1,363
12 Miami  FL 388 892 $1,692
13 San Francisco  CA 407 748 $3,607
14 Queens  NY 419 731 $2,195
15 Newark  NJ 437 704 $1,176
16 Long Beach  CA 443 797 $2,006
17 Buffalo  NY 448 781 $1,061
18 Honolulu  HI 463 561 $1,603
19 Washington  DC 465 745 $2,133
20 Minneapolis  MN 465 790 $1,551
21 Seattle  WA 479 698 $2,045
22 New Orleans  LA 515 897 $1,133
23 Santa Ana  CA 516 862 $1,922
24 Milwaukee  WI 519 854 $1,158
25 Pittsburgh  PA 521 816 $1,210
26 Portland  OR 534 769 $1,480
27 Baltimore  MD 541 823 $1,253
28 St. Paul  MN 544 829 $1,260
29 San Jose  CA 551 885 $2,706
30 San Diego  CA 552 876 $2,154
31 Cincinnati  OH 563 871 $972
32 Chula Vista  CA 565 866 $1,729
33 Denver  CO 572 840 $1,618
34 Stockton  CA 573 790 $1,144
35 Anaheim  CA 585 845 $1,786
36 Riverside  CA 589 844 $1,538
37 Sacramento  CA 600 823 $1,370
38 Baton Rouge  LA 611 942 $1,040
39 Tampa  FL 619 925 $1,298
40 Richmond  VA 620 867 $1,081
41 Tucson  AZ 621 757 $856
42 Atlanta  GA 621 978 $1,425
43 St. Louis  MO 632 840 $923
44 Nashville  TN 639 889 $1,335
45 Fresno  CA 640 895 $1,059
46 St. Petersburg  FL 642 873 $1,282
47 Reno  NV 652 853 $1,237
48 Madison  WI 654 845 $1,233
49 Orlando  FL 656 958 $1,402
50 Aurora  CO 668 841 $1,325
51 Toledo  OH 678 812 $713
52 Dallas  TX 679 844 $1,199
53 Glendale  AZ 695 793 $953
54 Albuquerque  NM 717 812 $869
55 Irvine  CA 717 917 $2,380
56 Norfolk  VA 719 881 $1,071
57 Phoenix  AZ 727 799 $1,037
58 Colorado Springs  CO 741 837 $1,122
59 Winston-Salem  NC 750 918 $841
60 Mesa  AZ 751 810 $1,009
61 Austin  TX 751 864 $1,369
62 San Antonio  TX 756 853 $1,018
63 Houston  TX 757 879 $1,094
64 Louisville  KY 766 932 $941
65 Arlington  TX 771 824 $1,012
66 Durham  NC 777 937 $1,132
67 Fort Worth  TX 788 871 $1,088
68 Lubbock  TX 788 914 $927
69 Paradise  NV 790 753 $863
70 Lincoln  NE 796 943 $959
71 Indianapolis  IN 797 879 $858
72 Kansas City  MO 798 899 $979
73 El Paso  TX 800 814 $770
74 Memphis  TN 806 910 $788
75 Garland  TX 807 870 $1,036
76 Lexington  KY 810 901 $898
77 Las Vegas  NV 820 894 $1,051
78 Charlotte  NC 825 944 $1,190
79 Jacksonville  FL 838 966 $1,063
80 Fremont  CA 843 831 $2,406
81 Corpus Christi  TX 845 849 $965
82 Greensboro  NC 858 937 $876
83 Bakersfield  CA 862 861 $992
84 Fort Wayne  IN 866 882 $760
85 Columbus  OH 878 885 $918
86 Raleigh  NC 893 960 $1,164
87 Arlington  VA 902 866 $2,149
88 Omaha  NE 905 924 $905
89 Irving  TX 912 852 $1,146
90 Chesapeake  VA 914 979 $1,207
91 Scottsdale  AZ 924 948 $1,471
92 Tulsa  OK 960 820 $685
93 Wichita  KS 965 792 $643
94 Oklahoma City  OK 973 849 $754
95 Henderson  NV 995 991 $1,261
96 North Las Vegas  NV 1,033 958 $1,050
97 Chandler  AZ 1,069 940 $1,287
98 Virginia Beach  VA 1,077 972 $1,176
99 Plano  TX 1,137 935 $1,278
100 Gilbert  AZ 1,174 962 $1,240
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Offline RE

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💰 5 Jaw-Dropping Stats About Americans' Retirement Savings
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2019, 01:33:26 AM »
No surprise here.  My Jaw didn't Drop.

RE

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/04/14/5-jaw-dropping-stats-about-americans-retirement-sa.aspx

5 Jaw-Dropping Stats About Americans' Retirement Savings
No. 3: Americans are leaving $24 billion in unclaimed 401(k) matches on the table.
Kailey Fralick
(TMFKailey)
Apr 14, 2019 at 12:43PM

We think of retirement as a relaxing, carefree time in our lives when we can do whatever we please, but for many working Americans today, retirement will be more of a nightmare than a dream. Study after study has shown that many Americans are well behind where they should be in terms of retirement savings, and if they don't take steps today to fix this, they could end up running out of money or working far longer than they planned.

Here are some of the most shocking statistics about Americans' retirement savings and some advice on how you can get yours back on track.

Image source: Getty Images.

1. One in three Americans has less than $5,000 in retirement savings

A Northwestern Mutual study found that one in three Americans has less than $5,000 saved up for retirement, and 21% of Americans have no retirement savings at all. Whatever the reason behind their lack of savings, the result is the same. When they do begin saving, these individuals will have to set aside larger portions of their income each month to have enough for retirement because their savings will have less time to compound before they need to begin drawing upon them. Alternatively, these workers may need to stay in the workforce a little longer than they planned.
2. The median household retirement savings is $50,000

The latest Transamerica retirement survey says the median retirement savings for all households in the U.S. is $50,000. This number is higher for older generations, with baby boomers having a median of $152,000 in retirement savings and Gen Xers having a median of $66,000. Millennials currently have the lowest median retirement savings at $23,000, but they also have the most time left to save before retirement.
3. Americans are leaving $24 billion in unclaimed 401(k) matches on the table

An employer 401(k) match is free money you can put toward your retirement so you don't have to spend your own hard-earned cash on it. But many Americans choose not to take advantage of this, resulting in $24 billion in 401(k) matches going unclaimed every year, according to Financial Engines. The survey says that the typical employee misses out on $1,336 of free cash each year, which could amount to nearly $43,000 with compounding over 20 years.
4. 29% of Americans have taken early withdrawals from their retirement accounts

When times get tough, nearly 3 in 10 Americans dip into their retirement savings, according to Transamerica. Common reasons for taking 401(k) loans or hardship withdrawals include paying down debt, unplanned medical expenses, and paying for higher education. These withdrawals may get you through a tough time, but they also hamper the growth of your retirement savings, and you could pay penalties on these distributions if they're not for a qualified reason. You're better off setting aside money for emergencies in a separate emergency fund. Aim to have three to six months' worth of living expenses.
5. 46% of Americans are just guessing at how much money they need for retirement

Nearly half of all workers surveyed in Transamerica's latest retirement study acknowledged that they were guessing at how much they needed to save for retirement. Only 12% had used a retirement calculator or a worksheet to help them get an accurate estimate. Gen Xers and baby boomers estimated they would need about $500,000 for retirement, while millennials estimated they would need only $400,000. But both estimates are likely to be too low. A MetLife study put the average cost of retirement at $738,400, and it's not unreasonable to think you'll need $1 million or more if you reside somewhere with a high cost of living.
How to shore up your retirement savings

If you're one of the 46% guessing at how much you need for retirement savings, now's the time to make a real plan. Start by estimating how long you expect to live, and figure high. One in 4 65-year-olds today will live past 90, according to the Social Security Administration, and 1 in 10 will live past 95. Subtract the age at which you plan to retire to get the estimated length of your retirement.

Next, estimate your annual living expenses in retirement and multiply this by the number of years of your retirement, adding 3% annually for inflation. A retirement calculator will do this math for you. Once you have your total estimated retirement cost, subtract from this any money you expect to receive from pensions, Social Security, or employer 401(k) matches. You can estimate your Social Security benefit by creating a My Social Security account. The amount that's left over is how much you need to save on your own. Your calculator should also give you an estimate of how much you need to save per month to reach your goal.

The next step is to open retirement accounts if you don't already have them. Your employer may offer a 401(k). Start here, especially if your company matches part of your contributions. If your company doesn't offer a 401(k), open an IRA instead. Traditional IRAs are tax-deferred, so they reduce your taxable income this year, but you pay taxes on your retirement distributions. Roth IRAs work the opposite way. You pay taxes on your initial contributions, but no taxes on distributions in retirement. Traditional IRAs make more sense if you believe you're in a higher tax bracket today than you will be in retirement, while Roth IRAs make more sense if you believe you're in the same or a lower tax bracket today than you will be in retirement.

Aim to contribute as much as your retirement calculator says you should each month, or more if you want an extra cushion. If you can't save that much now, save as much as you can and try to increase your contributions by 1% of your salary each year. Avoid taking early withdrawals, even if you have a qualified reason, like a first-home purchase. Save for these and emergency expenses in a savings account instead.

The above statistics about Americans' retirement savings are dire, but you can beat the odds by creating a solid retirement plan, diligently saving, and taking advantage of any employer 401(k) match that's available.

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Save As Many As You Can

Offline Eddie

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Re: 💰 5 Jaw-Dropping Stats About Americans' Retirement Savings
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2019, 03:37:04 PM »
No surprise here.  My Jaw didn't Drop.

RE

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/04/14/5-jaw-dropping-stats-about-americans-retirement-sa.aspx

5 Jaw-Dropping Stats About Americans' Retirement Savings
No. 3: Americans are leaving $24 billion in unclaimed 401(k) matches on the table.
Kailey Fralick
(TMFKailey)
Apr 14, 2019 at 12:43PM

We think of retirement as a relaxing, carefree time in our lives when we can do whatever we please, but for many working Americans today, retirement will be more of a nightmare than a dream. Study after study has shown that many Americans are well behind where they should be in terms of retirement savings, and if they don't take steps today to fix this, they could end up running out of money or working far longer than they planned.

Here are some of the most shocking statistics about Americans' retirement savings and some advice on how you can get yours back on track.

Image source: Getty Images.

1. One in three Americans has less than $5,000 in retirement savings

A Northwestern Mutual study found that one in three Americans has less than $5,000 saved up for retirement, and 21% of Americans have no retirement savings at all. Whatever the reason behind their lack of savings, the result is the same. When they do begin saving, these individuals will have to set aside larger portions of their income each month to have enough for retirement because their savings will have less time to compound before they need to begin drawing upon them. Alternatively, these workers may need to stay in the workforce a little longer than they planned.
2. The median household retirement savings is $50,000

The latest Transamerica retirement survey says the median retirement savings for all households in the U.S. is $50,000. This number is higher for older generations, with baby boomers having a median of $152,000 in retirement savings and Gen Xers having a median of $66,000. Millennials currently have the lowest median retirement savings at $23,000, but they also have the most time left to save before retirement.
3. Americans are leaving $24 billion in unclaimed 401(k) matches on the table

An employer 401(k) match is free money you can put toward your retirement so you don't have to spend your own hard-earned cash on it. But many Americans choose not to take advantage of this, resulting in $24 billion in 401(k) matches going unclaimed every year, according to Financial Engines. The survey says that the typical employee misses out on $1,336 of free cash each year, which could amount to nearly $43,000 with compounding over 20 years.
4. 29% of Americans have taken early withdrawals from their retirement accounts

When times get tough, nearly 3 in 10 Americans dip into their retirement savings, according to Transamerica. Common reasons for taking 401(k) loans or hardship withdrawals include paying down debt, unplanned medical expenses, and paying for higher education. These withdrawals may get you through a tough time, but they also hamper the growth of your retirement savings, and you could pay penalties on these distributions if they're not for a qualified reason. You're better off setting aside money for emergencies in a separate emergency fund. Aim to have three to six months' worth of living expenses.
5. 46% of Americans are just guessing at how much money they need for retirement

Nearly half of all workers surveyed in Transamerica's latest retirement study acknowledged that they were guessing at how much they needed to save for retirement. Only 12% had used a retirement calculator or a worksheet to help them get an accurate estimate. Gen Xers and baby boomers estimated they would need about $500,000 for retirement, while millennials estimated they would need only $400,000. But both estimates are likely to be too low. A MetLife study put the average cost of retirement at $738,400, and it's not unreasonable to think you'll need $1 million or more if you reside somewhere with a high cost of living.
How to shore up your retirement savings

If you're one of the 46% guessing at how much you need for retirement savings, now's the time to make a real plan. Start by estimating how long you expect to live, and figure high. One in 4 65-year-olds today will live past 90, according to the Social Security Administration, and 1 in 10 will live past 95. Subtract the age at which you plan to retire to get the estimated length of your retirement.

Next, estimate your annual living expenses in retirement and multiply this by the number of years of your retirement, adding 3% annually for inflation. A retirement calculator will do this math for you. Once you have your total estimated retirement cost, subtract from this any money you expect to receive from pensions, Social Security, or employer 401(k) matches. You can estimate your Social Security benefit by creating a My Social Security account. The amount that's left over is how much you need to save on your own. Your calculator should also give you an estimate of how much you need to save per month to reach your goal.

The next step is to open retirement accounts if you don't already have them. Your employer may offer a 401(k). Start here, especially if your company matches part of your contributions. If your company doesn't offer a 401(k), open an IRA instead. Traditional IRAs are tax-deferred, so they reduce your taxable income this year, but you pay taxes on your retirement distributions. Roth IRAs work the opposite way. You pay taxes on your initial contributions, but no taxes on distributions in retirement. Traditional IRAs make more sense if you believe you're in a higher tax bracket today than you will be in retirement, while Roth IRAs make more sense if you believe you're in the same or a lower tax bracket today than you will be in retirement.

Aim to contribute as much as your retirement calculator says you should each month, or more if you want an extra cushion. If you can't save that much now, save as much as you can and try to increase your contributions by 1% of your salary each year. Avoid taking early withdrawals, even if you have a qualified reason, like a first-home purchase. Save for these and emergency expenses in a savings account instead.

The above statistics about Americans' retirement savings are dire, but you can beat the odds by creating a solid retirement plan, diligently saving, and taking advantage of any employer 401(k) match that's available.

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What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

 

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