AuthorTopic: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?  (Read 865 times)

Offline Cam

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Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« on: December 01, 2019, 07:04:23 AM »
Hey everyone,

I am fully 'awake' now to what is happening in our world. I know this all is going downhill and it will only continue to do so. I have entirely lost my motivation to complete university, which I'm sure you all understand. But after I drop out, what then?

I know I need to become as self-reliant as possible while building a network of people around me I can rely on. There is very cheap land just outside the city I live in, though the growing season is quite short as I am in Plant Hardiness zone 4B (see photo). I want to start shopping for land but I do not have a car right now. What do you guys recommend for a vehicle? Potentially a brand new Ford F-350? Just kidding. I would use it just to get myself from A to B and not much more. For shorter distances I'd be using a fat bike, which is fantastic for the snow we get up here.

I have around $42,000 to my name which may not be much, but it's a head start.

So my questions are:

1) Recommendations for a vehicle? Just for getting from A to B.
2) Where to buy land? Outside town to stay by family with shorter growing season or an hour south into 5A zone?
3) I have friends who have discussed purchasing a house together (3 of us total). Including them in this would help with finances and work that needs to be done, but only if they understand why I am doing it. Right now they are under the impression that things will continue like this indefinitely. I think I will try to explain my reasoning to them, and if they still think I am sane we can do it together. This wasn't really a question, whoops.

If I am forgetting or missing any obvious options let me know. This may not clear, but all these questions are swirling in my head and I have done my best to get them out clearly. Thanks in advance everyone.


Offline RE

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2019, 09:44:58 AM »
Hey everyone,

I am fully 'awake' now to what is happening in our world. I know this all is going downhill and it will only continue to do so. I have entirely lost my motivation to complete university, which I'm sure you all understand. But after I drop out, what then?

I know I need to become as self-reliant as possible while building a network of people around me I can rely on. There is very cheap land just outside the city I live in, though the growing season is quite short as I am in Plant Hardiness zone 4B (see photo). I want to start shopping for land but I do not have a car right now. What do you guys recommend for a vehicle? Potentially a brand new Ford F-350? Just kidding. I would use it just to get myself from A to B and not much more. For shorter distances I'd be using a fat bike, which is fantastic for the snow we get up here.

I have around $42,000 to my name which may not be much, but it's a head start.

So my questions are:

1) Recommendations for a vehicle? Just for getting from A to B.
2) Where to buy land? Outside town to stay by family with shorter growing season or an hour south into 5A zone?
3) I have friends who have discussed purchasing a house together (3 of us total). Including them in this would help with finances and work that needs to be done, but only if they understand why I am doing it. Right now they are under the impression that things will continue like this indefinitely. I think I will try to explain my reasoning to them, and if they still think I am sane we can do it together. This wasn't really a question, whoops.

If I am forgetting or missing any obvious options let me know. This may not clear, but all these questions are swirling in my head and I have done my best to get them out clearly. Thanks in advance everyone.

Nice to see you back Cam.

42K is pretty good, a lot more than most people have to start out with.  It's enough for my basic Nomadic Paradigm.

For a car, buy a full size van with raised roof, used.  I picked up mine (I call her SaVANnah) for $5000 cash.  These vans are big enough to live in comfortably if you have to and you ca pick up and move anytime you want.  To really fit out well, pick up a cargo trailer to pull with it on Craig's list for another $2K.

Before you spend money on land, you should explore other communties and Doomsteaders who already have things set up and are looking for help.  Several Diners have Doomsteads and others have experimented with joining intentional communities.  You might go visit The Farm in TN, one of the oldest such communities in the FSoA, formed in the 1970s.  We here are friends with Albert Bates, one of the founders.  Eustace Conway runs another one called Turtle Island and then there is another called 4 Corners in PA.

I have written innumerable blogs on these subjects, you should search the Diner Blog archives.  Also the Doomsteading Forum here on the Diner Forum.  We have covered all the issues involved in this many times over.

RE
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Offline Cam

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2019, 10:15:14 AM »
I had a feeling this has all been covered before, I just was't quite sure where to look. I am on holidays now, so plenty of time to do some reading. Thanks for the help RE, hope you feel better soon!

Offline RE

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2019, 10:19:02 AM »
I had a feeling this has all been covered before, I just was't quite sure where to look. I am on holidays now, so plenty of time to do some reading. Thanks for the help RE, hope you feel better soon!

I'll search for some links for you later today.  Going back to bed now.

Also forgot you were in Ontario.  You should contact NF and C5 in Nova Scotia also.

RE
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Offline RE

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2019, 12:35:20 PM »
I had a feeling this has all been covered before, I just was't quite sure where to look. I am on holidays now, so plenty of time to do some reading. Thanks for the help RE, hope you feel better soon!

I'll search for some links for you later today.  Going back to bed now.

Also forgot you were in Ontario.  You should contact NF and C5 in Nova Scotia also.

RE

This search brings up a bunch of Van Dwelling articles and podcasts.

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/?s=van+bugout

RE
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Offline Nearingsfault

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2019, 01:40:30 PM »
Hey everyone,

I am fully 'awake' now to what is happening in our world. I know this all is going downhill and it will only continue to do so. I have entirely lost my motivation to complete university, which I'm sure you all understand. But after I drop out, what then?

I know I need to become as self-reliant as possible while building a network of people around me I can rely on. There is very cheap land just outside the city I live in, though the growing season is quite short as I am in Plant Hardiness zone 4B (see photo). I want to start shopping for land but I do not have a car right now. What do you guys recommend for a vehicle? Potentially a brand new Ford F-350? Just kidding. I would use it just to get myself from A to B and not much more. For shorter distances I'd be using a fat bike, which is fantastic for the snow we get up here.

I have around $42,000 to my name which may not be much, but it's a head start.

So my questions are:

1) Recommendations for a vehicle? Just for getting from A to B.
2) Where to buy land? Outside town to stay by family with shorter growing season or an hour south into 5A zone?
3) I have friends who have discussed purchasing a house together (3 of us total). Including them in this would help with finances and work that needs to be done, but only if they understand why I am doing it. Right now they are under the impression that things will continue like this indefinitely. I think I will try to explain my reasoning to them, and if they still think I am sane we can do it together. This wasn't really a question, whoops.

If I am forgetting or missing any obvious options let me know. This may not clear, but all these questions are swirling in my head and I have done my best to get them out clearly. Thanks in advance everyone.
So Uncle NF will ask questions and offer unsolicited advice again. Cam, What are you Studying, how long till you finish and are you going in debt to do it? Often having a degree you don't need is better then almost having a degree you don't need. Is there employment in the fields you have already invested in? What are your employable skills right now? That last one I'm asking because if you want to make it north of 7 (I assume that is where you are looking based on the 4b zoning) you have to fit the jobs that are available. Mostly those jobs are seasonal trades. There are professional jobs but usually they service us trades people. Many people are lured here by cheap land only to find themselves slowly slipping into poverty due to poor income opportunities. I live in the county of Haliburton which happens to be the poorest in Ontario poverty is very real here especially during the winter. Yes BAU will fail but nobody knows when or if they guess the timing right cannot predict the path. My personal belief is Canada will slip more slowly then other places so do not rush into a post income life. The fast versus slow collapse argument is well worn terrain. Staying financially healthy as long as possible is a good place to start though. Buying land is a personal choice but it is usually a balancing act between avoiding the masses and having income potential. My situation works for me but I did my trades qualifications down south and built my nest egg before moving North. For vehicles it depends. There are lots of awd crossovers at mid life and not too hard on fuel but harder to fix yourself. There are tonnes of 4x4 trucks but I find most of them over priced. I like my ford explorer myself the v8 not the 6... in the mid to late 2000's Its fixable, invisible, mostly a truck but not as pricey and you can sleep in it in a pinch, tough on gas though. 2WD in a heavy vehicle is useless here as most winter roads are treacherous.  Front wheel drive small cars are good as a starter the Yaris, Fit and mazda 2/3 come to mind.  All of them can take a hitch even if its not recommended for a small trailer. Don't get obsessed about hauling things to build as any lumber yard around will deliver by 4x4 truck anywhere for ridiculously small amounts of money. 15 years and counting and I've never needed a pickup truck to do my work.
Enough for now,
Cheers,   NF
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline RE

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2019, 03:05:16 PM »
So Uncle NF will ask questions and offer unsolicited advice again. Cam, What are you Studying, how long till you finish and are you going in debt to do it? Often having a degree you don't need is better then almost having a degree you don't need. Is there employment in the fields you have already invested in? What are your employable skills right now? That last one I'm asking because if you want to make it north of 7 (I assume that is where you are looking based on the 4b zoning) you have to fit the jobs that are available. Mostly thos jobs are seasonal trades. There are professional jobs but usually they service us trades people. Many people are lured here by cheap land only to find themselves slowly slipping into poverty due to poor income opportunities. I live in the county of Haliburton which happens to be the poorest in Ontario poverty is very real here especially during the winter. Yes BAU will fail but nobody knows when or if they guess the timing right cannot predict the path. My personal belief is Canada will slip more slowly then other places so do not rush into a post income life. The fast versus slow collapse argument is well worn terrain. Staying financially healthy as long as possible is a good place to start though. Buying land is a personal choice but it is usually a balancing act between avoiding the masses and having income potential. My situation works for me but I did my trades qualifications down south and built my nest egg before moving North. For vehicles it depends. There are lots of awd crossovers at mid life and not too hard on fuel but harder to fix yourself. There are tonnes of 4x4 trucks but I find most of them over priced. I like my ford explorer myself the v8 not the 6... in the mid to late 2000's Its fixable, invisible, mostly a truck but not as pricey and you can sleep in it in a pinch, tough on gas though. 2WD in a heavy vehicle is useless here as most winter roads are treacherous.  Front wheel drive small cars are good as a starter the Yaris, Fit and mazda 2/3 come to mind.  All of them can take a hitch even if its not recommended for a small trailer. Don't get obsessed about hauling things to build as any lumber yard around will deliver by 4x4 truck anywhere for ridiculously small amounts of money. 15 years and counting and I've never needed a pickup truck to do my work.
Enough for now,
Cheers,   NF

The most important point here is that until SHTF Day arrives, you need SOME way to make money  However, the more you can shave your expenses, the less money you need to make  If you live out of a Stealth Van, you can get by fine on a Minimum Wage job.

As soon as you buy land, you incur expenses.  If your going to grow anything bigger than a small garden, you're going to need a tractor or if you are going super, a team of horses.  You're going to need to buy seed.  Chickens aren't too expensive, but any larger animals are, and they take a lot of work.

In any case, you're not going to be able to feed yourself fully by yourself.  This is why you need to work inside some type of cooperative arrangement.

RE
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 03:07:49 PM by RE »
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Offline azozeo

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2019, 04:34:54 PM »
Hey everyone,

I am fully 'awake' now to what is happening in our world. I know this all is going downhill and it will only continue to do so. I have entirely lost my motivation to complete university, which I'm sure you all understand. But after I drop out, what then?

I know I need to become as self-reliant as possible while building a network of people around me I can rely on. There is very cheap land just outside the city I live in, though the growing season is quite short as I am in Plant Hardiness zone 4B (see photo). I want to start shopping for land but I do not have a car right now. What do you guys recommend for a vehicle? Potentially a brand new Ford F-350? Just kidding. I would use it just to get myself from A to B and not much more. For shorter distances I'd be using a fat bike, which is fantastic for the snow we get up here.

I have around $42,000 to my name which may not be much, but it's a head start.

So my questions are:

1) Recommendations for a vehicle? Just for getting from A to B.
2) Where to buy land? Outside town to stay by family with shorter growing season or an hour south into 5A zone?
3) I have friends who have discussed purchasing a house together (3 of us total). Including them in this would help with finances and work that needs to be done, but only if they understand why I am doing it. Right now they are under the impression that things will continue like this indefinitely. I think I will try to explain my reasoning to them, and if they still think I am sane we can do it together. This wasn't really a question, whoops.

If I am forgetting or missing any obvious options let me know. This may not clear, but all these questions are swirling in my head and I have done my best to get them out clearly. Thanks in advance everyone.


Hello, Welcome....


https://www.ic.org/community-classifieds/
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why youíre here. Youíre here because you know something. What you know you canít explain, but you feel it. Youíve felt it your entire life, that thereís something wrong with the world.
You donít know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline Cam

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2019, 07:38:00 PM »

If I am forgetting or missing any obvious options let me know. This may not clear, but all these questions are swirling in my head and I have done my best to get them out clearly. Thanks in advance everyone.
So Uncle NF will ask questions and offer unsolicited advice again. Cam, What are you Studying, how long till you finish and are you going in debt to do it? Often having a degree you don't need is better then almost having a degree you don't need. Is there employment in the fields you have already invested in? What are your employable skills right now? That last one I'm asking because if you want to make it north of 7 (I assume that is where you are looking based on the 4b zoning) you have to fit the jobs that are available. Mostly those jobs are seasonal trades. There are professional jobs but usually they service us trades people. Many people are lured here by cheap land only to find themselves slowly slipping into poverty due to poor income opportunities. I live in the county of Haliburton which happens to be the poorest in Ontario poverty is very real here especially during the winter. Yes BAU will fail but nobody knows when or if they guess the timing right cannot predict the path. My personal belief is Canada will slip more slowly then other places so do not rush into a post income life. The fast versus slow collapse argument is well worn terrain. Staying financially healthy as long as possible is a good place to start though. Buying land is a personal choice but it is usually a balancing act between avoiding the masses and having income potential. My situation works for me but I did my trades qualifications down south and built my nest egg before moving North. For vehicles it depends. There are lots of awd crossovers at mid life and not too hard on fuel but harder to fix yourself. There are tonnes of 4x4 trucks but I find most of them over priced. I like my ford explorer myself the v8 not the 6... in the mid to late 2000's Its fixable, invisible, mostly a truck but not as pricey and you can sleep in it in a pinch, tough on gas though. 2WD in a heavy vehicle is useless here as most winter roads are treacherous.  Front wheel drive small cars are good as a starter the Yaris, Fit and mazda 2/3 come to mind.  All of them can take a hitch even if its not recommended for a small trailer. Don't get obsessed about hauling things to build as any lumber yard around will deliver by 4x4 truck anywhere for ridiculously small amounts of money. 15 years and counting and I've never needed a pickup truck to do my work.
Enough for now,
Cheers,   NF
[/quote]

Hey NF,

Sorry about the delay, I didn't realized there were more replies. I'm majoring in psychology and I'll be done come April 2020. I am going to finish my degree, and I have 'downgraded' it so I can basically just breeze through the next three months and clear up some headspace for thinking about this stuff. There are jobs but they require at minimum a masters degree (another 2 years) and even then a job is not guaranteed. I have no debt as I've been working part time and getting scholarships throughout my degree. Post-university I might take a trades course at a college here in town. Which trade exactly is still up in the air, and I'm open to suggestions on that. My initial introduction to all this was George Mobus's blog which predicts a hard fast collapse. This rang alarm bells in my head, and a lot of my usual rationality went out the window. Now that things have sunken in more and I've read about slower ongoing collapse (Irv Mills for example) things have settled down in my head.
Thanks for the suggestions about cars, that helped out a lot! I'm thinking a small car will be a good start (Honda Fit or Mazda, something along those lines). Thanks for all your help, merry collapse christmas  8)

Offline Cam

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2019, 07:52:19 PM »
RE,

I have learned from the best when it comes to not spending much money. Not only are my parents quite frugal, I learned a bunch about early retirement before I learned about collapse. Early Retirement Extreme in particular is a blog/book I learned a TON from.

When it comes to the intentional communities I am still undecided. I have been reading Irv Mills' 'Responding to Collapse' and his suggestion to move to a small town seems pretty reasonable to me. This is something I'll have to think about more. And I agree it will absolutely have to be a team effort...I now see just how bullshit the 'survivalist' movement is. Who cares what cool gun you have if you can't feed yourself?

Thanks for the advice!


Azozeo,

Thanks for the link. It's a happy sight to see just how many of these communities there are already. Happy holidays!

Offline RE

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2019, 09:08:35 PM »
RE,

I have learned from the best when it comes to not spending much money. Not only are my parents quite frugal, I learned a bunch about early retirement before I learned about collapse. Early Retirement Extreme in particular is a blog/book I learned a TON from.

When it comes to the intentional communities I am still undecided. I have been reading Irv Mills' 'Responding to Collapse' and his suggestion to move to a small town seems pretty reasonable to me. This is something I'll have to think about more. And I agree it will absolutely have to be a team effort...I now see just how bullshit the 'survivalist' movement is. Who cares what cool gun you have if you can't feed yourself?

Thanks for the advice!


Azozeo,

Thanks for the link. It's a happy sight to see just how many of these communities there are already. Happy holidays!

Sounds like you are on  good CFS path to the approaching DOOM Cam!  :icon_sunny: Also fairly well positioned with a decent Nest Egg already.

George and me are both in agreement on how the Collapse will unfold.  Did you liten to/watch any of our chats?

RE
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Offline Cam

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2019, 05:24:09 AM »
RE,

I listened to George's interview on Collapse Chronicles and it was neat! I haven't actually watched many of the Collapse Cafe videos so I'll get on that. Thanks for all your help.  ;D

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2019, 08:21:09 AM »
RE,

I listened to George's interview on Collapse Chronicles and it was neat! I haven't actually watched many of the Collapse Cafe videos so I'll get on that. Thanks for all your help.  ;D

Try this.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/5WPB2u8EzL8" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/5WPB2u8EzL8</a>

Sam Mitchell will be posting an interview by this guy at the end of January.  It is already in the can.  This is one of the best introductions to doom I have seen.  But beyond being a good intro Sid also explains ecological succession and its relationship to doom in a way I had not heard before.  I already smoked a government troll who was pushing Wall-Mart as a good thing with it.  Wall-Mart is a monoculture like a palm oil plantation that is ruining soil.

Complexity emerges from an energy flow because of rules.  In my bones I always knew there was a connection between cellular automata, Conways game of life, and doom.  I really did!  I just did not know what it was.

For those Diners who don't need an intro pay attention when Sid explains how complexity depends on an energy flow and rules.  Knowing this relationship turns out  to be incredibly powerful in understanding WTF is going on and in dealing with the clueless cretin wonders we are forced to share this Earth with. No doubt for previous transgressions in our former lives.  The clueless think shit just happens.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2019, 08:33:09 AM »
My daughter, who has an undergrad psychology degree, is a  public school teacher. Not sure if this is an option in rural Ontario or Nova Scotia, but it tends to be steady, if low income work, and it has some advantages for someone trying to put one foot into a world that isn't here yet (but is coming).

Listen to Uncle NF.  He is actually living the life you envision. So is C5, who is currently traveling in central America but who will be returning to Canada in a couple of months or so. You should take the time to meet both these guys and have long talks with them...not online, but under their roofs, if they are so inclined...and I expect they are.



« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 08:40:23 AM by Eddie »
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Offline Cam

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Re: Feeling a bit overwhelmed...where do I start?
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2019, 11:23:13 AM »
K-Dog,

Thank you for the video, I'll sit down at a coffee shop and have a go at it after Christmas. And do you mean to say that on the whole, Walmart is bad? How dare you!  :icon_sunny: 



Eddie,

My mom is a teacher and she says I'd be a good one. However that is another two years before I'd be able to start working as I need teacher's college. It also seems that everyday she comes home with a new story about some whacko kid stabbing another one or something along those lines. She's at a relatively 'high class' public school too, so this is not only the bad schools. Things are barely being held together right now, hence me staying away from that field.

Uncle NF seems like a sharp dude and I will do my best to take in what he's got to teach. I've been reading C5's blog and I love it. He's just so darn reasonable. I never even thought of meeting up with these guys but that would be the best way possible to learn.


Thank you everyone, things are so much clearer in my head now. Merry Crisis!


 

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