AuthorTopic: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US  (Read 1141 times)

Offline RE

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2019, 03:34:35 AM »
That you blame nosocomial infections on your doctor? I don't think that one holds any water.

The one clear takeaway is to stay out of hospitals if at all possible. It's NOT the docs: hospitals are where the germs are. I have had several major surgeries and consider myself extremely fortunate to not pick up a case of MRSA for my trouble. Maybe that's because surgical theaters are probably the most rigorously sanitized?

Everyone wants someone to blame. But as Eddie points out, death is eventually 100% fatal. Or as the ZH droids have it, channeling Chuck Palahniuk, “On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”

On this portion of the dispute here, just WHY is it that we have a problem like MRSA?

For those of you do not know, that acronym MRSA means "Multiply Resistant Stafflococus Aurelia".  That's a particular type of bacteria that is very common, and in the old days easily treatable with common antibiotics.

It is not so now.  WHY?  Well, because dumb ass doctors over-prescribe the drugs, and the bacteria have evolved to adapt to that.  I have an absolutely ENORMOUS supply of antibiotics.  You know why?  Because dumb ass doctors give me prescriptions for hundreds of these pills to take 4 times a day, when if I take 1 or 2  a day it does the trick to knock down the infection and then my immune system takes over the work and POOF I am OK again.

Doctors in general are subservient to the pharmaceutical industry and the insurance industry to make their outrageously inflated incomes.  They are the low level criminals in a very large racket.

RE
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 03:38:44 AM by RE »
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2019, 04:07:51 AM »

It is not so now.  WHY?  Well, because dumb ass doctors over-prescribe the drugs, and the bacteria have evolved to adapt to that.  I have an absolutely ENORMOUS supply of antibiotics.  You know why?  Because dumb ass doctors give me prescriptions for hundreds of these pills to take 4 times a day, when if I take 1 or 2  a day it does the trick to knock down the infection and then my immune system takes over the work and POOF I am OK again.

Doctors in general are subservient to the pharmaceutical industry and the insurance industry to make their outrageously inflated incomes.  They are the low level criminals in a very large racket.

RE

Your desire to overgeneralize based on your own experience is the intellectual equivalent of the guy at thanksgiving dinner who tells the story about the blinded our welfare queen buying lobster with food stamps, and who insists "he saw it himself." Even though food Stamos don't exist anymore.

there is a perfect logic for stockpiling drugs against the time you want them and can't get them, for whatever reason. I maintain my own war chest. So I wonder why you are complaining.

What you are compiling about is, in RE terms, a "conduit scheme." Remember when if you had problems, you could go see a therapist? Now, you take a pill. the real crime is the pharmacologizing of all aspects of medicine. Blame the Sachlers, not the doctors. Eddie has been very forthcoming about the tribulations of running a small practice. Most docs and dentists I have met try to run a practice and care for patients without much visible second agenda.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline RE

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2019, 04:18:06 AM »
Most docs and dentists I have met try to run a practice and care for patients without much visible second agenda.

The only agenda I have ever been able to identify with any doctor is to make a lot of money to go golfing or have lots of vacation homes.

RE
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Offline RE

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2019, 04:54:47 AM »
Hmm. No offence taken and no need for apologies at all!


Glad to hear that.  My Jokes are often misunderstood.

RE
One last time: It has been said that in Greece physical chemistry bonds the men and the boys, and it takes a crowbar to separate them.  :laugh:

Are you sure it's P-Chem and not Orgo?

I HATED P-Chem.  In terms of separating Boys & Men, IMHO it was PDEq.  Partial Differential Equations.  That was the toughest math course I ever took.

RE
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Offline moniker

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2019, 05:20:49 AM »
The toughest math course I never took was graduate introduction to analysis at the Courant institute. After taking the statistics course for actuaries in the business school they suggested I register that one.

During the first class the guy sitting next to me says I already have a phd in physics but I'm here to learn some more math. I'm like wtf? Our homework assignment was to prove the square root of 2 is irrational. I thought we were actually supposed to figure this out ourselves; so I dropped the course.

Later I found out it's at the beginning of Courant's calculus textbook!

Offline knarf

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2019, 06:20:13 AM »
That you blame nosocomial infections on your doctor? I don't think that one holds any water.

The one clear takeaway is to stay out of hospitals if at all possible. It's NOT the docs: hospitals are where the germs are. I have had several major surgeries and consider myself extremely fortunate to not pick up a case of MRSA for my trouble. Maybe that's because surgical theaters are probably the most rigorously sanitized?

Everyone wants someone to blame. But as Eddie points out, death is eventually 100% fatal. Or as the ZH droids have it, channeling Chuck Palahniuk, “On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”

Almost zero, there is always more space.
Mark Twain — 'There are many humorous things in the world; among them, the white man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages.'

Offline moniker

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2019, 06:55:40 AM »
Almost zero, there is always more space.
Yep. As has been said before: God created the natural numbers, man created zero.

Offline azozeo

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2019, 09:38:24 AM »
What I'd like to know is.....

Eddie, has anyone croaked in your office  :icon_scratch:
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline Eddie

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2019, 10:09:48 AM »
Just had to chime in with a useless opinion.
After professionally dealing with WC insurance carriers for 10 years. I think that the problem is Insurance itself. The amount the insurance industry rakes off of everything medical is obscene. I think Charles Hugh Smith's recent post on this subject hit some of the nails on the head. https://www.oftwominds.com/blogdec19/out-of-control12-19.html
Socialized medicine is the answer. Both Canada and Europe (except UK) seem to have universal healthcare without the impoverishment of the people using it. Sadly doctors don't get to be multi-millionaires in that system but I thought most people went to med school to do good :icon_scratch:
Oh, and I think we should nationalize Big Pharma!!
AJ

Having had the experience of dealing with decent not-for-profit single payer with Medicaid in this state for a number of years before Rick Perry sold out to Big Insurance and gutted a decent functional program.....I can tel lyou that it was MUCH better than the penny-ante bullshit we have with "managed care".

Bring it on.If I could get back what we had ten years ago, I'd work until I was 90.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2019, 10:15:59 AM »
That you blame nosocomial infections on your doctor? I don't think that one holds any water.

The one clear takeaway is to stay out of hospitals if at all possible. It's NOT the docs: hospitals are where the germs are. I have had several major surgeries and consider myself extremely fortunate to not pick up a case of MRSA for my trouble. Maybe that's because surgical theaters are probably the most rigorously sanitized?

Everyone wants someone to blame. But as Eddie points out, death is eventually 100% fatal. Or as the ZH droids have it, channeling Chuck Palahniuk, “On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”

On this portion of the dispute here, just WHY is it that we have a problem like MRSA?

For those of you do not know, that acronym MRSA means "Multiply Resistant Stafflococus Aurelia".  That's a particular type of bacteria that is very common, and in the old days easily treatable with common antibiotics.

It is not so now.  WHY?  Well, because dumb ass doctors over-prescribe the drugs, and the bacteria have evolved to adapt to that.  I have an absolutely ENORMOUS supply of antibiotics.  You know why?  Because dumb ass doctors give me prescriptions for hundreds of these pills to take 4 times a day, when if I take 1 or 2  a day it does the trick to knock down the infection and then my immune system takes over the work and POOF I am OK again.

Doctors in general are subservient to the pharmaceutical industry and the insurance industry to make their outrageously inflated incomes.  They are the low level criminals in a very large racket.

RE

I can't argue with the general thrust of this, because it's true. However.....I do think of it in much the same way I think about Peak Oil.  Nobody knew we'd end up here. Antibiotics were invented a few years before we were born. Lots of good.. Lots of unintended consequences.

As a provider, I can tell you a couple of things.

One is that patients DEMAND antibiotics...and that is  part of it,

Second thing is that antibiotics are still a magic bullet for surgeons that still usually works, in spite of the academic pressure to not prescribe them.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2019, 10:31:44 AM »
What I'd like to know is.....

Eddie, has anyone croaked in your office  :icon_scratch:

No but I have had a couple patients have severe seizures. It happened in a cluster, same year, after 20 plus years of no issues at all. I was afraid one of them would die.I had her on the monitor and her heart rate  are was well over 250/bpm.

I work in the operating room too, as you probably remember. I have seen many serious emergencies with kids under general anesthesia, but all of them were handled with great expertise by the docs I work with. My favorite anesthesiologist was a woman.....very gifted and cool under pressure. She got cancer a few years back and slipped away while I wasn't paying attention. I miss her.

I had one kid who died a few days after I did some very minor work on him in the hospital. He was in foster care, so an autopsy was mandatory. The forensic pathologist was never able to determine the cause of death. AFAIK, there will never be a way for me to know whether me putting the kid to sleep to fix his teeth had anything to do with it.

We are required to have a defibrillator now, but I've never had to use mine, Hope I never do.

The typical dental office death is a random heart attack of an older person who has it while getting routine work. That isn't usually anyone's fault.

Pediatric dentists (I am one) as a group.....have killed lots of healthy kids by mismanaging sedations in the office without the right staff training, doctor training, proper protocol, etc. It still happens.

You have to understand though, that pediatric dentists are under a lot of pressure to provide this kind of treatment. Medicaid, for instance, will not pay for general anesthesia in the hospital unless you have tried to do it in office with sedation first and had a "failed sedation". This is extremely stupid policy. and it's all about money.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline azozeo

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2019, 11:04:03 AM »
Thanks Eddie....

My mind was on the blood clog type of seizure when asking that question.

Over dosing kids would be scary.

I won't perform hypno-therapy sessions on minors. The worst thing that can happen with my clients is I don't get all
the trash out of the waste basket. I've had left over dark spots that have had to have a second session.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline RE

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2019, 11:21:45 AM »
Nobody knew we'd end up here. Antibiotics were invented a few years before we were born. Lots of good.. Lots of unintended consequences.

File under "Who cooda node?"

Well, we do know NOW, but you still get ridiculously large prescriptiions for these drugs.

On the other hand, these days it's almost impossible to get a decent pain killer (opioids, generally speaking) prescribed.

The whole industry is for shit.  I can't stand doctors or pharmaceutical companies or insurance companies.  Dentists I have no problems with anymore since I have no teeth left after the botch jobs of a lifetime.

RE
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Offline azozeo

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2019, 01:02:18 PM »
Nobody knew we'd end up here. Antibiotics were invented a few years before we were born. Lots of good.. Lots of unintended consequences.

File under "Who cooda node?"

Well, we do know NOW, but you still get ridiculously large prescriptiions for these drugs.

On the other hand, these days it's almost impossible to get a decent pain killer (opioids, generally speaking) prescribed.

The whole industry is for shit.  I can't stand doctors or pharmaceutical companies or insurance companies.  Dentists I have no problems with anymore since I have no teeth left after the botch jobs of a lifetime.

RE


My teeth were worked on by a Professor at the School of Dentistry U.S.C. University of Spoiled Children.
Don't get wrong, the man was wonderful with is knowledge. Stellar service. He filled my fucking mouth with "Mercury"
I contracted Ankylosing-Spondilitis "who cooda node" back in the day.
Funny how, that all my teeth are broken or gone, my AS is diminished.

2020 the year of Bionic Teeth for this crazy diamond.

I found a newbie in town, not part of the good ol' boys club, believe it or not. She's young n' hung  :icon_mrgreen:
We gonna' hook up in Jan. I'll have a fistfull of mailbox money so I can come in swingin' with 45's new dictate.

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/patients/trump-administration-unveils-new-price-transparency-rules

I'll let the diners know how I fare with the new doctor.
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline Surly1

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Re: Medical Error: The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2019, 06:19:00 PM »
That you blame nosocomial infections on your doctor? I don't think that one holds any water.

The one clear takeaway is to stay out of hospitals if at all possible. It's NOT the docs: hospitals are where the germs are. I have had several major surgeries and consider myself extremely fortunate to not pick up a case of MRSA for my trouble. Maybe that's because surgical theaters are probably the most rigorously sanitized?

Everyone wants someone to blame. But as Eddie points out, death is eventually 100% fatal. Or as the ZH droids have it, channeling Chuck Palahniuk, “On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”

On this portion of the dispute here, just WHY is it that we have a problem like MRSA?

For those of you do not know, that acronym MRSA means "Multiply Resistant Stafflococus Aurelia".  That's a particular type of bacteria that is very common, and in the old days easily treatable with common antibiotics.

It is not so now.  WHY?  Well, because dumb ass doctors over-prescribe the drugs, and the bacteria have evolved to adapt to that.  I have an absolutely ENORMOUS supply of antibiotics.  You know why?  Because dumb ass doctors give me prescriptions for hundreds of these pills to take 4 times a day, when if I take 1 or 2  a day it does the trick to knock down the infection and then my immune system takes over the work and POOF I am OK again.

Doctors in general are subservient to the pharmaceutical industry and the insurance industry to make their outrageously inflated incomes.  They are the low level criminals in a very large racket.

RE

I can't argue with the general thrust of this, because it's true. However.....I do think of it in much the same way I think about Peak Oil.  Nobody knew we'd end up here. Antibiotics were invented a few years before we were born. Lots of good.. Lots of unintended consequences.

As a provider, I can tell you a couple of things.

One is that patients DEMAND antibiotics...and that is  part of it,

Second thing is that antibiotics are still a magic bullet for surgeons that still usually works, in spite of the academic pressure to not prescribe them.

One other contributing factor are the antibiotics put into livestock feed and the food supply. Plenty of opportunity for those at the top of the food chain to develop antibiotics resistance.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

 

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