AuthorTopic: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior  (Read 2788 times)

Offline Eddie

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Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« on: April 09, 2013, 06:28:27 AM »
The idea of this thread is to start a conversation with other diners about various systems of understanding that might (or might not) be considered outside the realm of scientific knowledge, and also ways of understanding human behavior, which might be scientific or not. Some areas that might be of interest  are:

Human Design, the astrological system dreamed up by the late Ra Uru Hu, and now sort of in vogue in some circles.

The Enneagram, as described by Riso and Hudson and others.

Meyers-Briggs Personality Test.

Any other systems aimed at understanding human behavior. (I'm interested in the work of the late John Kappas, for instance.)

If this sparks any interest, I'll elaborate on my own views. if not, I'll delete the post.

I thought it was very revealing, for instance, when Jim Quinn asked his readers at TBP what their Meyers-Briggs type was, and the vast majority of readers turned out to be INTJ's.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2013, 07:34:58 AM »
I like to look at this stuff for a variety of reasons. Enneagrams, for instance, yield more useful info for me than a Meyers-Briggs. Here is a quote from an enneagram analysis of Obama posted by blogger Tony Jones on Theoblogy last fall.

Barack Obama is an Enneagram Nine, with a strong Eight wing. Other famous political Nines include Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford, and Dwight Eisenhower.

I asked Suzanne Stabile*, my personal Enneagram guru, to write up something about Nines, and here’s what she sent in:

Enneagram Nines are called “mediators.” They are men and women who intuitively try to maintain a sense of peace and balance. They avoid conflict and believe that having a single or personal agenda threatens harmony, often unnecessarily. They frequently merge with the other in order to maintain peace. They are self-effacing, tolerant, even-tempered and likeable. And their gift is their problem in that they see two sides to everything.

Nines are the primal person. They connect with everything and yet they stay disconnected from everything at the same time. These are people who are not stuck in their own way of thinking so they have the capacity for holding varied opinions and for finding value in most points of view.

In Enneagram teaching, students learn that the number on either side of theirs is called a “wing.” For some, that wing plays a big role in the way they think, the choices they make and the way they lives their lives. Nines that have a One wing live more in their heads and are imaginative but they have a tendency to withdraw under stress. Nines with an Eight wing are more grounded, more assertive and more practical. They tend to be more sociable than Nines who are strongly influenced by One energy.  That influence of the Eight is important because Eights are the most aggressive number on the Enneagram.

For the Nine, other people’s ideas and agendas are very loud and convincing, so Nines often “go along to get along,” saving their energy for the things that matter the most. Sometimes Nines just keep their thoughts to themselves and let others do the talking, even when they disagree.  Healthy Nines are collaborators. However, they are not prone to peer pressure and they accurately see themselves as people who can do what they want or need to do.

Nines often rise to leadership positions because they are reliable, trustworthy, responsible and concerned for the whole.  They are not without ambition but they are fairly detached from ego fixations. Nines appear to be unaggressive and willing to let by-gones be by-gones, while in reality they are at times, quietly unforgiving and stubborn. Unhealthy Nines are passive-aggressive in dealing with their anger and they control through stubbornness.  Those who are more mature and more highly evolved recognize and deal with the causes of their anger and address it appropriately.

Nines think things through for a long time before making decisions. In leadership they may let some things “ride” that are important to a few but not of concern for the greater whole.  When situations demand what Enneagram wisdom calls “right action,” Nines are prepared to accept responsibility for making difficult decisions and living with the consequences of those decisions.  They can tolerate the lack of peace and harmony, moving forward without hesitation for things of ultimate importance.

These mediators are found in literally every profession.  They do a good job of getting along with others.  Nines are slow to assert themselves.  They are optimistic in all situations and they are kind.  Nines are aware that peace is not synonymous with the absence of conflict and more than any other number on the Enneagram they seem to get that all things are connected.
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bob

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2013, 08:41:29 AM »
palmistry, astrology, and numerology are the big'uns even tarot in extremely rare case can find a "reader" who provides accurate info. By eneagram you mean numerology based on name not DOB?

 I dont believe there is any competent astrologers in western countries, you need to go to eg India. I wouldnt call personality testing a system of knowledge either, just a tool like tea leaves lol.

The bible condemns "divination" but I think soothesaying is ok.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2013, 09:27:42 AM »
The enneagram is a way of evaluating personality that is said to go back to the Sufis. It was known to Gurdjieff, but the modern use of it goes back to a group of psychotherapists led by Claudio Naranjo who taught it in the 1970's.

The symbol of the enneagram is quite ancient and other writers have ascribed various mystical powers to it, but I'm referring to it in the context of a personality tool. It's an elegant system, and much has been written about it.

Here's a link to a site with a lot of info. There are other authorities, but Riso and Hudson are well respected authors who have written many books on the subject. I'm not good at posting images, but you can see the symbol on this page too.

https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/

« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 09:58:47 AM by Eddie »
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2013, 09:39:19 AM »
I'm not into conventional astrology, palmistry, or the Tarot, but Human Design is sort of an amalgamation of astrological concepts that relates to body energy centers (chakras) and the human aura, as well as some facets of Chinese astrology.

You can do free readings using a software tool, and there are some books out there. This system is kind of eerie in its accuracy for many people (just speaking subjectively, of course). Fun to check out if you want to play with it. I don't know any of these people who teach it and/or sell it.

www.jovianarchive.com/

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

bob

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2013, 10:07:38 AM »
Pffft, mere childspaly lol. None of those have the predictive power of Google analytics data mining, which is peanuts to da goobamints massive info gathering and processing centres to only spy on people who are  a potential threat to the state. I should have nothing to worry about as long as I dont type too many keywords rhyming with pepper.  ;)

Offline Eddie

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2013, 10:59:54 AM »
I should have nothing to worry about as long as I don't type too many keywords rhyming with pepper.  ;)

Leper?
Shlepper?
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Offline DoomerSupport

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2013, 11:25:37 AM »

I don't believe there is any competent astrologers in western countries,

Chris Warnock.  http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/

He worked on a recent translation of the Picatrix with JMG. 

Offline DoomerSupport

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2013, 11:34:09 AM »
I'm not into conventional astrology

Astrology = diagnosis.

Talismanic work = treatment. 

The popularization of astrology as a column in the newspaper broke that link, but go back to the middle ages and you'll see this link.  Not just with people, it was common to cast a birth chart for the chartering of a city, and talismans can be buried with a city to affect it's course, much like an individual may wear a talisman.

I only know of one recent talismanic work done on a city scale, back in 2010 - the jury is still out on it's effectiveness.

Back at the end of LATOC Matt Savinar announced he was going into astrology and giving up on Peak Oil.  He made the announcement when the moon was Void of Course, which amused other astrologers no end. 


Offline Eddie

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2013, 12:04:23 PM »
Astrology = diagnosis.

Talismanic work = treatment. 


Thanks for saying.

I know this topic is not doom related, but my purpose in mentioning it...well, really mostly because people who might be going into a communal lifestyle might be well advised to have some people tools to give them some insight into their own personality and that of their chosen tribe. These are tools that have worked for me.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline reanteben

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2013, 03:38:55 PM »
Astrology = diagnosis.

Talismanic work = treatment. 


Thanks for saying.

I know this topic is not doom related, but my purpose in mentioning it...well, really mostly because people who might be going into a communal lifestyle might be well advised to have some people tools to give them some insight into their own personality and that of their chosen tribe. These are tools that have worked for me.

absolutely, eddie! the enneagram would be an excellent tool for any cooperative community.

 i'm a 9 with an 8 wing, too, like obama, supposedly - except i'm not a psychopath. big fan of the enneagram, bought Character and Neuroses by naranjo in my mid-twenties, didn't read it all. the post-college friend group was big into the enneagram. such cool dudes we were (not), used to sit around at house parties predicting what people were and then testing them.

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2013, 06:14:49 PM »
Here's a fun one:


The five shapes in the left side of the banner represent 5 different but not exclusive personality types.  I'm a squiggle box....
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 06:16:54 PM by jdwheeler42 »
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline Eddie

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2013, 05:38:27 AM »
Astrology = diagnosis.

Talismanic work = treatment. 


Thanks for saying.

I know this topic is not doom related, but my purpose in mentioning it...well, really mostly because people who might be going into a communal lifestyle might be well advised to have some people tools to give them some insight into their own personality and that of their chosen tribe. These are tools that have worked for me.

absolutely, eddie! the enneagram would be an excellent tool for any cooperative community.

 i'm a 9 with an 8 wing, too, like obama, supposedly - except i'm not a psychopath. big fan of the enneagram, bought Character and Neuroses by naranjo in my mid-twenties, didn't read it all. the post-college friend group was big into the enneagram. such cool dudes we were (not), used to sit around at house parties predicting what people were and then testing them.

I'm a 4 with a 3 wing.

The thing I think that is so superior about e-type is the fact that it's a dynamic system....that a 4, when fully realized, begins to resemble a 1...but a 4, when stressed, behaves like a 2. I have found these cross-connections to be quite accurate.

As i said in my original post, I also like the work of the late John Kappas. He divides personalities into two broad categorries, which he calls emotionals and physicals. If I know whether someone is a physical or an emotional, and I know their e-type, I can understand  their operating system quite well most of the time.  Knowing this stuff is a great benefit. It is so much easier to get along with someone if you understand what motivates them, and where their blind spots are.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2013, 05:43:49 AM »
Here's a fun one:


The five shapes in the left side of the banner represent 5 different but not exclusive personality types.  I'm a squiggle box....

Not sure how good this is. I'm too cheap to spend $10.95 to find out. What does that say about my personality?
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline reanteben

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Re: Esoteric Knowledge...Systems of understanding human behavior
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2013, 04:07:38 PM »
Astrology = diagnosis.

Talismanic work = treatment. 


Thanks for saying.

I know this topic is not doom related, but my purpose in mentioning it...well, really mostly because people who might be going into a communal lifestyle might be well advised to have some people tools to give them some insight into their own personality and that of their chosen tribe. These are tools that have worked for me.

absolutely, eddie! the enneagram would be an excellent tool for any cooperative community.

 i'm a 9 with an 8 wing, too, like obama, supposedly - except i'm not a psychopath. big fan of the enneagram, bought Character and Neuroses by naranjo in my mid-twenties, didn't read it all. the post-college friend group was big into the enneagram. such cool dudes we were (not), used to sit around at house parties predicting what people were and then testing them.

I'm a 4 with a 3 wing.

The thing I think that is so superior about e-type is the fact that it's a dynamic system....that a 4, when fully realized, begins to resemble a 1...but a 4, when stressed, behaves like a 2. I have found these cross-connections to be quite accurate.

As i said in my original post, I also like the work of the late John Kappas. He divides personalities into two broad categorries, which he calls emotionals and physicals. If I know whether someone is a physical or an emotional, and I know their e-type, I can understand  their operating system quite well most of the time.  Knowing this stuff is a great benefit. It is so much easier to get along with someone if you understand what motivates them, and where their blind spots are.

cool, eddie - the 3 wing comes through loud and clear. :) as i recall i've only known 4s with 5 wings before. have you noticed a preponderence of 9s?

i'll check out kappas, thanks.

 

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