AuthorTopic: Gaining a more nuanced perspective on collapse  (Read 654 times)

Offline Palloy2

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Re: Gaining a more nuanced perspective on collapse
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2020, 05:39:05 PM »
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That said, you have altogether too many bodies to bury-- literally-- to aver that Putin is not a thug.

On your list of bodies was Sergei Skripal, who isn't dead.  He wasn't killed by exposure to Novichok, because he WOULD have been dead.  Likewise his daughter and the policeman. He was a spy and double agent for UK.  That's enough to know that you don't have the full story.

Also on the list was Magnitsky.  Read about the case on wikipedia, and you will see no mention of Putin, except when he signed the retaliatory legislation against the stupid Clinton legislation.  Medvedev is mentioned twice. Magnitsky investigated a tax fraud and had accused police, the judiciary, tax officials, bankers, and the Russian mafia of fraud.  It is obvious that the public doesn't have the complete picture, and that the picture doesn't include Putin.

How can you say you have been  "filtering corporate agitprop to attempt to distill facts for nearly 50 years", and yet you put those two cases down as "Putin did it", and spell both victim names wrong.

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Stop assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid.

 I don't, but if you might have been brainwashed by the media, I point it out.  The alternative media never bought into that rubbish, so why should you?
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline Surly1

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Re: Gaining a more nuanced perspective on collapse
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2020, 04:53:57 AM »
Quote
That said, you have altogether too many bodies to bury-- literally-- to aver that Putin is not a thug.

On your list of bodies was Sergei Skripal, who isn't dead.  He wasn't killed by exposure to Novichok, because he WOULD have been dead.  Likewise his daughter and the policeman. He was a spy and double agent for UK.  That's enough to know that you don't have the full story.

Also on the list was Magnitsky.  Read about the case on wikipedia, and you will see no mention of Putin, except when he signed the retaliatory legislation against the stupid Clinton legislation.  Medvedev is mentioned twice. Magnitsky investigated a tax fraud and had accused police, the judiciary, tax officials, bankers, and the Russian mafia of fraud.  It is obvious that the public doesn't have the complete picture, and that the picture doesn't include Putin.

How can you say you have been  "filtering corporate agitprop to attempt to distill facts for nearly 50 years", and yet you put those two cases down as "Putin did it", and spell both victim names wrong.

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Stop assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid.

 I don't, but if you might have been brainwashed by the media, I point it out.  The alternative media never bought into that rubbish, so why should you?

Does anything of import go on in Russia without Putin's assent? You might be a Putin stooge if...
Your reliance on Wikipedia to defend Putin in re Magnitsky is just totes adorbs. Serge Magnitsky was Bill Browder's lawyer. Putin came after Browder's winnings on trumped up and false income tax charges, and Magnitsky led Browder's defense. For which he was imprisoned, denied medical treatment, beaten and killed. And you want to give Putin a pass? Puhleeze.

Bodies of Putin's victims are still stacked like cordwood, and you are in here prattling about "world's greatest statesman?" Just don't get on his bad side or owe him money.

"Alternative media" include such bullshit as "Natural News," "Before It's News," rense.com and other sites not worth the time of day, so one wonders what your point is. But keep flailing. Everyone but you is brainwashed. We get it.

Stooge.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline Surly1

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A Word From Bill Browder
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2020, 06:07:11 AM »
From 2018.

I'm Bill Browder. Here's the Biggest Mistake Putin Made When Trying to Get Access to Me Through Trump

William Browder, chief executive officer of Hermitage Capital Management, takes his seat as he arrives for a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing titled 'Oversight of the Foreign Agents Registration Act and Attempts to Influence U.S. Elections' on July 27, 2017 in Washington, D.C.
Drew Angerer—Getty Images

I wasn’t watching the Donald Trump–Vladimir Putin press conference from Helsinki. But when my phone started burning up with messages, I knew something was going on. I quickly discovered that Putin had mentioned me by name. No journalist had asked about me. He just brought me up out of the blue.

Putin offered to allow American investigators to interview the 12 Russian intelligence agents just indicted by Special Counsel Robert Mueller in exchange for allowing Russians to have access to me and those close to me. This is no idle threat. For the last ten years, I’ve been trying to avoid getting killed by Putin’s regime, and there already exists a trail of dead bodies connected to its desire to see me dead. Amazingly, Trump stood next to him, appearing to nod approvingly. He even later said that he considered it “an incredible offer.”

Both Trump and Putin Just Denied Russian Meddling in the 2016 Election. Here's What They Said

Trump resisted when asked Monday to condemn Russian meddling in the election. Instead, he complained about a Democratic National Committee computer server and emails belonging to Hillary Clinton, the Democrat he defeated to win the presidency.

I’m lodged so firmly under Putin’s skin because I’m the person responsible for getting the Magnitsky Act passed in the United States in 2012. This is a law that allows the U.S. government to freeze assets and ban visas of human-rights violators around the world. Some of these human-rights violators had killed Sergei Magnitsky, my Russian lawyer who was murdered in a Moscow jail for uncovering a massive $230 million government-corruption scheme that we’ve since traced to known Putin cronies. In essence, Putin received some of the proceeds of this crime, and he is terrified that the Magnitsky Act could be applied to his offshore fortune, which is probably one of the largest amassed in modern times.

The Helsinki summit is not the first time my name has come up at a Putin press conference. Back in 2006 at the G-8 Conference in St. Petersburg, a young reporter for the Moscow Times asked why I’d been denied an entry visa to Russia and declared a threat to national security, all with no explanation. She pointed out that I was the biggest foreign investor in the Russian stock market, and that the prime minister of the United Kingdom had asked Putin about my situation earlier that day.

Putin frowned. “To be honest, I don’t know why this particular person has been refused entry to Russia. I can imagine that this person has broken the laws of our country, and if others do the same we’ll refuse them entry, too.”

“This person.” Putin almost never utters the names of his enemies — except for mine, which he lately seems to utter at every opportunity. To my mind, this can only mean that he is seriously rattled.

Since 2012, Putin has made it perhaps his largest foreign policy priority to have the Magnitsky Act repealed. But none of his efforts have worked. Not only has it not been repealed, it’s spread to six additional countries, including the United Kingdom, Canada, the Baltic states and Gibraltar. There are eight other countries with Magnitsky Acts on deck: Sweden, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, Australia, South Africa and Ukraine. The Magnitsky Act is going viral, and countries that have Magnitsky Acts are sanctioning Putin’s cronies, who I imagine soon will be sanctioned by other countries as well.

In addition, the Global Magnitsky Justice Campaign has investigated and found the $230 million that Sergei Magnitsky exposed and was killed over. There arenow a number of live law-enforcement investigations around the worlddetermining just who benefited from this crime. These have resulted in tens of millions of dollars of frozen assets. Furthermore, these investigations don’t only put at risk the beneficiaries of this crime, but the benificiaries of many other similar crimes. These people are ready to kill to keep their money. Losing it would be devastating.

Putin’s latest allegation that I donated $400 million to Hillary Clinton is so ludicrous and untrue that it falls into delusion. I’ve never made a political donation to Hillary Clinton or any other political candidate. It’s in the same category as other Russian government allegations against me: they accused me of being a serial killer; they accused me of being a CIA/MI6 agent determined to destroy the Russian government; and they accused me of somehow stealing $4.8 billion of IMF money back in the 1990s that was destined for the Russian Treasury. These guys have seriously lost their cool and are beginning to make mistakes.

The biggest mistake that Putin made in his offer today to effectively swap me for the 12 Russian agents is that he went to the wrong head of state. Although I was born in America, I emigrated to the United Kingdom 29 years ago and am a British citizen. If he really wants me, he better go talk to Theresa May, who might have a few choice words for him after Russian agents spread the military-grade nerve agent Novichok across the cathedral town of Salisbury, England.

"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline Palloy2

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Re: Gaining a more nuanced perspective on collapse
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2020, 07:05:07 PM »
Quote
Bowder: ... Russian government allegations against me: they accused me of being a serial killer; they accused me of being a CIA/MI6 agent determined to destroy the Russian government; and they accused me of somehow stealing $4.8 billion of IMF money back in the 1990s that was destined for the Russian Treasury.

Does that make his words reliable, or does it make him probably a CIA/MI6 agent ?

Quote
[A young reporter for the Moscow Times] pointed out that I was the biggest foreign investor in the Russian stock market,

He would be the last person I would trust and base any accusations on.

Quote
Surly: "Alternative media" include such bullshit as "Natural News," "Before It's News," rense.com and other sites not worth the time of day,

Oh, come on, I would never quote from THEM !  I leave that to AZ.
I'm talking about thesaker.is, moonofalabama.org, theautomaticearth.com, etc.
when you are filtering stories and they contain things like "CIA, double agent, investor in the Russian stock market, Russian living in London, fleeing for their lives from ..." you KNOW you are unlikely to get the real truth, so you can ignore any of their accusations.

In the final analysis, if you think like the CIA, you have been brainwashed by the CIA/MSM.  The CIA is the most evil organisation on the planet.  They were set up to start the Cold War, and have now got so powerful that the CIA Director, Brennan, lied to Congress about snooping on the "committee to regulate the CIA", when there was an apology letter from him on file (not sent and released in error).  He was never indicted for lying to Congress and went on to be a talking head on MSM.

"Putin is a thug" is CIA propaganda.  Eddie and Surly, surprisingly, have swallowed the propaganda whole, and makes DD look silly.
"The State is a body of armed men."

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Gaining a more nuanced perspective on collapse
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2020, 09:32:37 PM »
Quote
Bowder: ... Russian government allegations against me: they accused me of being a serial killer; they accused me of being a CIA/MI6 agent determined to destroy the Russian government; and they accused me of somehow stealing $4.8 billion of IMF money back in the 1990s that was destined for the Russian Treasury.

Does that make his words reliable, or does it make him probably a CIA/MI6 agent ?

Quote
[A young reporter for the Moscow Times] pointed out that I was the biggest foreign investor in the Russian stock market,

He would be the last person I would trust and base any accusations on.

Quote
Surly: "Alternative media" include such bullshit as "Natural News," "Before It's News," rense.com and other sites not worth the time of day,

Oh, come on, I would never quote from THEM !  I leave that to AZ.
I'm talking about thesaker.is, moonofalabama.org, theautomaticearth.com, etc.
when you are filtering stories and they contain things like "CIA, double agent, investor in the Russian stock market, Russian living in London, fleeing for their lives from ..." you KNOW you are unlikely to get the real truth, so you can ignore any of their accusations.

In the final analysis, if you think like the CIA, you have been brainwashed by the CIA/MSM.  The CIA is the most evil organisation on the planet.  They were set up to start the Cold War, and have now got so powerful that the CIA Director, Brennan, lied to Congress about snooping on the "committee to regulate the CIA", when there was an apology letter from him on file (not sent and released in error).  He was never indicted for lying to Congress and went on to be a talking head on MSM.

"Putin is a thug" is CIA propaganda.  Eddie and Surly, surprisingly, have swallowed the propaganda whole, and makes DD look silly.

Easy for you to say.  From where we sit teams like the ATF, the FBI, the INS and a few others under the Fusion Umbrella are more evil.  Most Americans as they merely exist and require no discipline are blithely unaware so your error is forgiven; it being off the radar.

And I know a word the mere typing of which will cause as spike in website hits by one or more alphabet agencies.

Cascadia
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 10:16:02 PM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Gaining a more nuanced perspective on collapse
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2020, 09:36:31 PM »

Coronavirus spreads to Germany, Switzerland, Croatia, Iraq, Spain, Algeria, Austria and Brazil while cases explode in Italy by 45% in one day


https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-02-25-coronavirus-spreads-to-germany-switzerland-croatia-iraq-spain-austria-italy.html

(Natural News)

Over the last 36 hours or so, the coronavirus spread has now been confirmed in a slew of new countries, including Germany, Switzerland, Croatia, Iraq, Spain, Algeria and Austria. Cases are already confirmed in Belgium, Lebanon, Finland, Sweden, Egypt, Sri Lanka, Israel, Cambodia, Nepal, Afghanistan, Russia and many other countries.

An infection is now suspected in Brazil, which would make it the first South American nation to confirm a coronavirus infection, bringing the virus to a whole new continent. According to Brazil’s Health Ministry, one test of a local patient has reportedly come back positive. A second confirmation test is necessary to make the diagnosis “official.”

These are irrefutable facts, yet we still have naysayers throughout the media and across the cultural landscape who claim none of this is happening, that the coronavirus bioweapon system is “just another flu,” or that it’s a grand hoax being perpetrated by all these countries as some elaborate staged event to commit economic suicide for some unknown reason.

Pandemic denialism is essentially the “Flat Earth” version of epidemiology. According to the denialists, all the nations listed above are faking it, sacrificing their national economics to carry out some sort of elaborate hoax for some unimaginable reason.

Rush Limbaugh, meanwhile, still insists the coronavirus is just “the flu.” It’s a reminder why highly influential people should stick to their areas of expertise and not wander into areas where they very quickly demonstrate their shocking technical ignorance and lack of knowledge.
Coronavirus cases explode in Italy by 45% overnight

Coronavirus infections exploded overnight in Italy, rising to 322 confirmed cases, an increase of 100 from the previous day.

To try to stop the spread of the virus, Italy is running armed road blocks surrounding 12 towns, prohibiting road travel.

According to The Epoch Times, no one in Italy even knows the source of the outbreak, completely obliterating any argument from WHO officials that this is “contained” or “not a pandemic.” Via TET:

Italian health officials haven’t yet identified the source of the outbreak. Angelo Borrelli, the head of the Italian civil protection department, said the case count grew from 222 to 322, representing a 45% increase, in a 24-hour period from Monday evening to Tuesday evening.

According to the pandemic denialists, of course, Italy must be faking it for some reason. Yes, it’s an insane idea, but that’s what is now being promoted by the left-wing media and even some conservative journalists.

Notably, the very bureaucrat in Iran who told everybody the virus was no big deal is now infected himself. Also via TET:

Only a day earlier, a coughing and heavily sweating Iraj Harirchi said at a televised news conference in Tehran that “the situation is almost stable in the country.”

Health Ministry spokesman Kianoush Jahanpour confirmed Harirchi had the virus. Harirchi himself posted an online video saying he had it and that he had quarantined himself at home. He promised that authorities would bring the virus under control.

That’s reassuring, huh? The very government bureaucrat sitting in quarantine after accidentally getting infected is telling us all the government has it under control. The irony is almost pure comedy, if it weren’t so tragic.
San Franciso declares state of emergency while media tells us there’s no emergency at all

San Francisco, meanwhile, has just declared a state of emergency over the coronavirus, even when CDC officials claim there are essentially zero confirmed cases in San Francisco.

According to the SF Chronicle, Mayor London Breed said more resources need to be allocated, “to make sure we are prepared,” even while the entire media establishment in America claims there’s nothing to be prepared for in the first place.

So why did San Fran just declare an emergency, then?

The CDC’s insane policy of “Don’t Test, Don’t Tell” is keeping America in the dark while the epidemic explodes across U.S. cities.

Hear all my coronavirus podcasts at Pandemic.news
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline Surly1

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Re: Gaining a more nuanced perspective on collapse
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2020, 04:18:44 AM »
Quote
Bowder: ... Russian government allegations against me: they accused me of being a serial killer; they accused me of being a CIA/MI6 agent determined to destroy the Russian government; and they accused me of somehow stealing $4.8 billion of IMF money back in the 1990s that was destined for the Russian Treasury.

Does that make his words reliable, or does it make him probably a CIA/MI6 agent ?

Quote
[A young reporter for the Moscow Times] pointed out that I was the biggest foreign investor in the Russian stock market,

He would be the last person I would trust and base any accusations on.

Quote
Surly: "Alternative media" include such bullshit as "Natural News," "Before It's News," rense.com and other sites not worth the time of day,

Oh, come on, I would never quote from THEM !  I leave that to AZ.
I'm talking about thesaker.is, moonofalabama.org, theautomaticearth.com, etc.
when you are filtering stories and they contain things like "CIA, double agent, investor in the Russian stock market, Russian living in London, fleeing for their lives from ..." you KNOW you are unlikely to get the real truth, so you can ignore any of their accusations.

In the final analysis, if you think like the CIA, you have been brainwashed by the CIA/MSM.  The CIA is the most evil organisation on the planet.  They were set up to start the Cold War, and have now got so powerful that the CIA Director, Brennan, lied to Congress about snooping on the "committee to regulate the CIA", when there was an apology letter from him on file (not sent and released in error).  He was never indicted for lying to Congress and went on to be a talking head on MSM.

"Putin is a thug" is CIA propaganda.  Eddie and Surly, surprisingly, have swallowed the propaganda whole, and makes DD look silly.

Yep, everyone is blind and/or stupid but you.

This thread proof that when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline Palloy2

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Re: Gaining a more nuanced perspective on collapse
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2020, 05:16:32 PM »
Quote
Surly: Yep, everyone is blind and/or stupid but you.

This thread proof that when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I didn't say anyone was blind and/or stupid.  I said:
Quote
Palloy: when you are filtering stories and they contain things like "CIA, double agent, investor in the Russian stock market, Russian living in London, fleeing for their lives from ..." you KNOW you are unlikely to get the real truth, so you can ignore any of their accusations.

Are you maintaining the truthfulness of you own CIA ?

I should correct myself on "knave" - I HAVE heard it before, in a song "Until the real thing comes along" by Fats Waller ( a favourite of my father) . He sings "I'd be a beggar or a knave for you (whatever that is), and if that isn't love, ...". Incredibly, there is a YT of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LljpLw8yRwM
"The State is a body of armed men."

Online Eddie

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Re: Gaining a more nuanced perspective on collapse
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2020, 08:58:41 AM »
Quote
Surly: Yep, everyone is blind and/or stupid but you.

This thread proof that when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I didn't say anyone was blind and/or stupid.  I said:
Quote
Palloy: when you are filtering stories and they contain things like "CIA, double agent, investor in the Russian stock market, Russian living in London, fleeing for their lives from ..." you KNOW you are unlikely to get the real truth, so you can ignore any of their accusations.

Are you maintaining the truthfulness of you own CIA ?

I should correct myself on "knave" - I HAVE heard it before, in a song "Until the real thing comes along" by Fats Waller ( a favourite of my father) . He sings "I'd be a beggar or a knave for you (whatever that is), and if that isn't love, ...". Incredibly, there is a YT of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LljpLw8yRwM

I'm a Fats Waller fan, fwiw. Those old film clips on YT are from the movie Stormy Weather...which wasn't much for plot, but was a musical tour de force. All black cast, made (if memory serves) in 1944. 

I look for that kind of video.....lots of good ones out there now. I'm a big Hoagy Carmichael fan too.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

 

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