AuthorTopic: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf  (Read 341 times)

Offline Eddie

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 19414
    • View Profile
Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« on: February 14, 2020, 07:52:42 AM »
I am going away again and I probably won't be back.

One of the most prolific posters on the forum is Knarf.....as you all know.

This morning Knarf was kind enough to point out that he picks his posts at random.......based on the headlines he sees on some news aggregator site.....and  he then cuts-and-pastes the articles in their entirety without taking the time.... or effort.......to even read and understand them..... even though he is quick to point out he certainly could if he wanted to......

He pointed out that this is not because he is incapable, but because he doesn't care if they're accurate. It doesn't matter to him. (Apparently it's a Buddhist Master thang.)

His justification for doing this (which often results in articles hitting the Diner that are out-and-out lies)....is that somehow his Zen Buddhist self-realized non-self-ness makes this a fine idea.

I'd probably understand this  better if I were an ex-Bodhisattva myself...but I'm still a regular human...and to me it smells like yesterday's feces.

After RE  and Surly both congratulated him for this activity, which I found  questionable...I offered a very mild criticism, coming from a place of respect.

And he saw fit to censor it. So be it. His right, I guess. RE made him a mod.

And me.....I get beat up here most days for trying to be the voice of keeping it real. I got called a shill this week. That hurts. What I see now is that the Diner, just like almost every other collapse site I ever visited, is eaten up with bias.

I learned some good stuff here...don't get me wrong. And good stuff still gets posted....but I can't really stomach what I see happening now.

So.....like just about everyone else who ever came to this forum to discuss collapse, I'm heading on out to some new place, where the lunatics are not in charge of the asylum.

And Knarf.....Although I'm the ONLY one on this forum other than you who might actually have some idea about why you do what you do, who might BEGIN to understand your POV......I still think what you're doing is a reprehensible practice, and that you are doing at least as much damage as you're doing good.

And, yes, I do get that you don't give a rat's ass what I think about anything. You made that loud and clear.

This post will almost certainly be censored too, because dissent is not particularly encouraged here. But if RE has the balls to leave it up, that's a point in his favor.

And if you, dear reader, have come upon this site for the first time.....my advice is.....use your own common sense to figure out what's worth reading and what isn't.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 04:08:40 PM by Eddie »
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41420
    • View Profile
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2020, 08:13:29 AM »

This post will almost certainly be censored too, because dissent is not particularly encouraged here. But if RE has the balls to leave it up, that's a point in his favor.

Well, I certainly won't be the one to axe this post.

Hope you have a pleasant Walkabout.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41420
    • View Profile
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2020, 08:18:16 AM »

This post will almost certainly be censored too, because dissent is not particularly encouraged here. But if RE has the balls to leave it up, that's a point in his favor.

Well, I certainly won't be the one to axe this post.

Hope you have a pleasant Walkabout.

RE

Eddie, I am going to Restore your post and put it in your Newz Channel.  Gimmee a few minutes.

ADMIN.  Power of GOD on a Forum.  lol.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18620
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2020, 10:48:21 AM »

His justification for doing this (which often results in articles hitting the Diner that are out-and-out lies)....is that somehow his Zen Buddhist self-realized non-self-ness makes this a fine idea.

I'd probably understand this  better if I were an ex-Bodhisattva myself...but I'm still a regular human...and to me it smells like yesterday's feces.

After RE  and Surly both congratulated him for this activity, which I found  questionable...I offered a very mild criticism, coming from a place of respect.

Eddie, I did NOT congratulate knarf for his curation techniques so much as affirm RE's opinion that he had lead an interesting life. Every time he relays a story I learn something worthwhile about a very interesting man. As to his articles, as I said, some of them live on elsewhere.

My own curation techniques are different. I use a number of different aggregators, which over a couple of years I've fine-tuned to weed out spurious websites, nonsense, bald conspiracy, etc. Some sites also reflect my own left-of-center bias. I have posted articles that were wrong and out of date, and feel chastened when they do so.

The original exchange:

Quote from: RE
That is a TERRIFIC Personal History post Knarf.   :icon_sunny:  You should write more of them.  You led a very interesting and fairly unique life.

RE

Quote from: Surly
  :emthup: :emthup:

I fully agree with RE. You likely don't appreciate how interesting your life is to those of us who have trodden a more conventional path.
And I appreciate your explanation of your curation process. Different from my own, but there is room here for all of us. Many of your posts each day end up with a second, third and fourth life on Diner social media because I repost them.

Quote from: Eddie
But the one's that probably get posted on social media by less discriminating readers?

Or read by them quietly and given credence because they come fro the Diner, which once had a reputation for truth-telling.

it isn't like throwing a rock in a pond just to create ripples. Lies matter...and the problem with all social media is that the whole phenomenon tends to perpetuate and amplify  false information. Repeating lies as a result of random sampling the media universe is not without consequences, in my opinion.

You are absolutely correct on this score, which is why I don't uncritically repost anything without laying a nose on it. Extra points go to orgs and magazines that employ fact checkers, meaning that they value accuracy as part of their brand proposition. I do as well.

This may seem odd from a guy who stood up a topic called, "The Great Culling" yesterday. I do believe that it is a subject worth considering, even though the vast majority of mainstream opinion argues otherwise. I even posted a refutation of that motion from rationalWiki today. And I found your response to be thoughtful.

That said, I hope you don't disappear again. Your voice is valued, even if you are not aware of it. People are reading even when you get no comment.
"...reprehensible lying communist..."

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41420
    • View Profile
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2020, 11:02:15 AM »
That said, I hope you don't disappear again. Your voice is valued, even if you are not aware of it. People are reading even when you get no comment.

That is true.  We have a remarkable number of Lurkers.  Best I can calculate from the Stats, about 3000 or so Monthly readers.  Keep writing Eddie.  Make it so.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/FaLyasJPyUU" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/FaLyasJPyUU</a>

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Eddie

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 19414
    • View Profile
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2020, 11:27:03 AM »
I have no problem with a left-of-center bias. Everyone who posts on this site has some bias...and I freely admit to having my own. That is not my complaint.

What I look for...not that it matters...is a forum where people can discuss ideas, and where people with differing views can make the case for whatever they happen to believe....and that any readers can use the evidence presented to weigh the  responses and make up their own minds.

And I know collapse sites attract all kinds of people, some of whom have a definite conspiracy theory bent...and who have all kinds of backgrounds, beliefs, widely divergent viewpoints and (occasionally) a few loose screws.

But some things bother me. One is being slammed for diligently trying to separate fact from fiction, using the best evidence I can find. Another is having a frequent poster admit to not doing any vetting at all to try to weed out the obvious crap.

I've said (and still say) that it's obvious to me some people don't have the skill set to be ABLE to do this.....and so become victims of people who knowingly post false statements....and so people who DO, should do what they can not to willingly repeat the kind of bullshit some of us can spot a mile away.

Whatever I might have said here, or written here......you can go back and look.....I have never made an argument that was deliberately dishonest or meant to mislead anyone....and  I'm very careful to support my arguments with data and factual information. I freely admit to having my own blind spots. Everyone does...anyone who says they don't is delusional. But I try...and I never go after people with deliberate malice....until I get pushed way further than most......

But when I have no choice, I will take off the gloves and go bare knuckles with anybody who has it coming. Win, lose, or draw, nobody smears me and gets away with
 it. I'm way past taking shit off every bozo on the bus.....I'm just not gonna put up with it.

Nothing personal against you at all, any of you.....including Knarf, fwiw. Almost everybody who posts here leans socialist.....even I am far more left leaning than the average US voter, these days.

 I just try to point out some caveats about what I consider the futility of betting on a change in SYSTEM to solve what I see as mostly a corruption-driven problem set.  All systems now in place are some kind of oligarchy.. I doubt a socialist oligarchy is going to fix most of what''s wrong with my country of origin...or most others.



« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 12:28:49 PM by Eddie »
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41420
    • View Profile
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2020, 12:13:13 PM »
....until I get pushed way further than most......

Walk a mile in my shoes.  lol.  You ever get your posting re-written by Jimbo on TBP?  How many times did you go Mano-a-Mano with Watson or Moriarty, our most famous Trolls?  Let's not forget F-Bomb either!  If you post on the Diner, you have to suit up in your Fireproof BVDs every time you login.  You also have gone after me, and I after you.  Same with Surly, we both have battled with him, right to the MAT, aka, Walkabouts from both of you.  It took months to heal those wounds.  The longest I ever went Walkabout was I think 3 days, and I only did that once.  You forced me into that one.

Quote
But when I have no choice, I will take off the gloves and go bare knuckles with anybody who has it coming. Win, lose, or draw, nobody smears me and gets away with it I'm way past taking shit off every bozo on the bus.....I'm just not gonna put up with it.

Knarf probably won't do that, he's not the type to go to the mat.  As you know though, I most certainly am the type, and it is a REAL BAD idea to take off the gloves with me on the internet.  I am at this game longer than anyone here, I go back to the 1970s and the old Arpanet and IRC.  Don't fuck with me, because I do not respond kindly.  It is kind of like playing against me in a game of Chess.  You know what that is like.  lol.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Eddie

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 19414
    • View Profile
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2020, 12:51:26 PM »
....until I get pushed way further than most......

Walk a mile in my shoes.  lol.  You ever get your posting re-written by Jimbo on TBP?  How many times did you go Mano-a-Mano with Watson or Moriarty, our most famous Trolls?  Let's not forget F-Bomb either!  If you post on the Diner, you have to suit up in your Fireproof BVDs every time you login.  You also have gone after me, and I after you.  Same with Surly, we both have battled with him, right to the MAT, aka, Walkabouts from both of you.  It took months to heal those wounds.  The longest I ever went Walkabout was I think 3 days, and I only did that once.  You forced me into that one.

Quote
But when I have no choice, I will take off the gloves and go bare knuckles with anybody who has it coming. Win, lose, or draw, nobody smears me and gets away with it I'm way past taking shit off every bozo on the bus.....I'm just not gonna put up with it.

Knarf probably won't do that, he's not the type to go to the mat.  As you know though, I most certainly am the type, and it is a REAL BAD idea to take off the gloves with me on the internet.  I am at this game longer than anyone here, I go back to the 1970s and the old Arpanet and IRC.  Don't fuck with me, because I do not respond kindly.  It is kind of like playing against me in a game of Chess.  You know what that is like.  lol.

RE

For the most part, I just assume the things you say that REALLY piss me off are not said with a deliberate intent to hurt me personally....you're just like dog with a bone...who won't let go..and you're from the Apple, too.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41420
    • View Profile
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2020, 01:33:11 PM »
....until I get pushed way further than most......

Walk a mile in my shoes.  lol.  You ever get your posting re-written by Jimbo on TBP?  How many times did you go Mano-a-Mano with Watson or Moriarty, our most famous Trolls?  Let's not forget F-Bomb either!  If you post on the Diner, you have to suit up in your Fireproof BVDs every time you login.  You also have gone after me, and I after you.  Same with Surly, we both have battled with him, right to the MAT, aka, Walkabouts from both of you.  It took months to heal those wounds.  The longest I ever went Walkabout was I think 3 days, and I only did that once.  You forced me into that one.

Quote
But when I have no choice, I will take off the gloves and go bare knuckles with anybody who has it coming. Win, lose, or draw, nobody smears me and gets away with it I'm way past taking shit off every bozo on the bus.....I'm just not gonna put up with it.

Knarf probably won't do that, he's not the type to go to the mat.  As you know though, I most certainly am the type, and it is a REAL BAD idea to take off the gloves with me on the internet.  I am at this game longer than anyone here, I go back to the 1970s and the old Arpanet and IRC.  Don't fuck with me, because I do not respond kindly.  It is kind of like playing against me in a game of Chess.  You know what that is like.  lol.

RE

For the most part, I just assume the things you say that REALLY piss me off are not said with a deliberate intent to hurt me personally....you're just like dog with a bone...who won't let go..and you're from the Apple, too.

K-Dog is the one with the Bone. lol.

Me?  I'm just your average kid who grew up in the Playgrounds of Hell's Kitchen in downtown Manhattan and playing Futbol with the Favela boys on Rua Joachim Nabuco off Ipanema Beach in Rio de Janeiro.  Then there were the 7 Years out on the open road with my Big Rig, on all the loading docks, in the truckstops and in the railyards.  These things toughen you up.  I take no shit from anybody.  That is all she wrote.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18620
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2020, 02:06:25 PM »
....until I get pushed way further than most......

Walk a mile in my shoes.  lol.  You ever get your posting re-written by Jimbo on TBP?  How many times did you go Mano-a-Mano with Watson or Moriarty, our most famous Trolls?  Let's not forget F-Bomb either!  If you post on the Diner, you have to suit up in your Fireproof BVDs every time you login.  You also have gone after me, and I after you.  Same with Surly, we both have battled with him, right to the MAT, aka, Walkabouts from both of you.  It took months to heal those wounds.  The longest I ever went Walkabout was I think 3 days, and I only did that once.  You forced me into that one.

Quote
But when I have no choice, I will take off the gloves and go bare knuckles with anybody who has it coming. Win, lose, or draw, nobody smears me and gets away with it I'm way past taking shit off every bozo on the bus.....I'm just not gonna put up with it.

Knarf probably won't do that, he's not the type to go to the mat.  As you know though, I most certainly am the type, and it is a REAL BAD idea to take off the gloves with me on the internet.  I am at this game longer than anyone here, I go back to the 1970s and the old Arpanet and IRC.  Don't fuck with me, because I do not respond kindly.  It is kind of like playing against me in a game of Chess.  You know what that is like.  lol.

RE

For the most part, I just assume the things you say that REALLY piss me off are not said with a deliberate intent to hurt me personally....you're just like dog with a bone...who won't let go..and you're from the Apple, too.

K-Dog is the one with the Bone. lol.

Me?  I'm just your average kid who grew up in the Playgrounds of Hell's Kitchen in downtown Manhattan and playing Futbol with the Favela boys on Rua Joachim Nabuco off Ipanema Beach in Rio de Janeiro.  Then there were the 7 Years out on the open road with my Big Rig, on all the loading docks, in the truckstops and in the railyards.  These things toughen you up.  I take no shit from anybody.  That is all she wrote.

RE

FFS, enough with the internet-tough-guy dickwaving, OK? Especially you, RE. Power of God on a Forum, and all. Which, when paired with $5 will get you a Starbucks.

I love you all. Let's get pack to pissing on one another's threads, shall we?
"...reprehensible lying communist..."

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41420
    • View Profile
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2020, 03:02:44 PM »
I love you all. Let's get pack to pissing on one another's threads, shall we?

Fine by me.  :icon_sunny:

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Eddie

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 19414
    • View Profile
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2020, 04:32:00 PM »


You ever get your posting re-written by Jimbo on TBP?

You know, I actually DID once..and I took the same. approach I usually take,  I called out the fake post he made in my name and invited whoever did it to to look me up in  the real world so we could talk about it face-to-face.......instead of taking advantage and using their admin power to take a cheap shot. I got no response, but it never happened again.

Not sure if you guys know, but Stucky just lost his wife....that little spitfire psychologist he married...that he obviously loved so much. I remember her. She came on the TBP forum comments once to stand up for him on something. She seemed like a class act to me. I log on once a year and leave a comment, usually around the holidays. That's how I found out.



What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41420
    • View Profile
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2020, 04:57:29 PM »
I log on once a year and leave a comment, usually around the holidays. That's how I found out.

I just about never visit TBP anymore.  However, I did drop by over there a few days ago to drop on my Video with John Lounsbury of GEI and Surly, because TBP and the History was featured prominently in the chat we had.

Suffice it to say none of us gave Jimbo a real good review.  lol.  The site is a fucking mess of Ads now too.  ::)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/m2GCbOXnYFM" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/m2GCbOXnYFM</a>

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline alaskadronelife

  • Bussing Staff
  • **
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2020, 05:02:41 PM »
And if you, dear reader, have come upon this site for the first time.....my advice is.....use your own common sense to figure out what's worth reading and what isn't.

I liked your posts Eddie, and the real world activities you often post about. I've often wondered what goes on in the background, that can't be seen by regular users because of disappearing posts, threads or topics that disappear after awhile. I can remember the discussion, I go back and root around and...vanished. I hope that doesn't happen to your stuff after you leave, you posted some interesting stuff over the years.

Offline Nearingsfault

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 1356
    • View Profile
Re: Dear Diner...and a Special Message to Knarf
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2020, 05:10:59 PM »
I dont really like the cut and paste stuff that comes without any kind of setup by the poster. What caught your eye? Do you find it credible? Why? How does it fit into the larger point of view?  There are endless compiler sites out there. Without a frame of reference there is nothing to keep you here and with time it becomes generic crud.
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
9 Replies
2627 Views
Last post January 12, 2014, 09:56:47 AM
by JRM
5 Replies
1888 Views
Last post April 06, 2015, 06:21:12 AM
by RE
0 Replies
316 Views
Last post July 31, 2017, 03:14:05 PM
by Eddie