AuthorTopic: The Trump Slump  (Read 351 times)

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18084
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
The Trump Slump
« on: March 23, 2020, 01:57:18 PM »
Dow sheds another 3% after coronavirus stimulus bill fails in Senate for a second time

Stocks fell sharply on Monday as U.S. lawmakers failed to push through massive fiscal stimulus to curtail the economic blow from the coronavirus. Talks are ongoing, but investors believe the longer Washington waits, the greater the damage to the economy.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average closed 582.05 points lower, or down 3.1%, at 18,591.93, its lowest closing level since November 2016. The S&P 500 slid 2.9% to 2,237.40. The Nasdaq Composite was down just 0.3% at 6,860.67 as investors began making small bets on technology stocks.

For a second time in less than 24 hours, a bill that would authorize giant fiscal spending to stimulate the economy failed to clear a key procedural hurdle. Earlier on Monday, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told CNBC’s Jim Cramer that Congress was “very close” to getting a fiscal package done, noting it must be pushed forward “today.”

“We’re using some of the funds we have, but we need Congress to approve additional funds today so that we can move forward and support American workers and the American economy,” Mnuchin said.



Read the rest here:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/22/stock-market-futures-open-to-close-news.html
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18084
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
What a Plague Reveals
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2020, 02:27:38 PM »
Have followed and enjoyed the work of Frank Rich for forty years.

And I'd be all for that MAGA rally in Lynchburg on Easter Sunday.

Frank Rich: What a Plague Reveals

Lloyd Blankfein has a dissenting view on coronavirus. Photo: Justin Lane/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock

Most weeks, New York Magazine writer-at-large Frank Rich speaks with contributor Alex Carp about the biggest stories in politics and culture. Today, the argument, both from the White House and supposed centrists outside of it, that America should prioritize the economy. 

Though coronavirus cases continue to climb in the U.S., a number of businesspeople and commentators have begun to talk about “restarting” the economy, even at the cost of American lives. If even non-Trumpists are in part echoing Trump’s views on this, should we take them seriously?

A society reveals a lot about itself, heroic and not, when confronting a plague. But we didn’t need a plague to tell us that Trump places zero value on any life except his own, and it’s no surprise that many of his zealots are willing to blindly follow his example. Witness that so-called man of God, Jerry Falwell Jr., who decided to end social distancing and summon the previously dispersed student body back to Liberty University in Virginia, at whatever cost to themselves. Or Larry Kudlow, the White House economic adviser who had previously assured Americans that the virus was “contained” and advised them to buy stocks just before the bottom dropped out of the markets. Not content to speed the destruction of Americans’ 401(k)s, he has led the cheerleading for Trump’s kamikaze goal of getting the country back to work by Easter. Perhaps Trump can kick off this return to normalcy by holding the biggest and best MAGA rally ever on Easter Sunday at Liberty U.

But what does it say that ostensibly serious people like Lloyd Blankfein, Gary Cohn, Thomas Friedman, and the ABC analyst Matthew Dowd, among others, have in varying degrees taken up this cause? And done so with so little grounding in reality? Cohn, for instance, tweeted, “We should be able to handle incremental economic activity in appropriate locations while not allowing it in other geographies.” What are “appropriate” locations and what are those “other geographies,” pray tell, and who would designate them? Others take the tact of layering in caveats intended to shield them from criticism if such a plan goes wrong and corpses start piling up in genocidal magnitude across the land. Take Friedman, for instance, who points out how “urgent” it is to first “immediately rectify the colossal failure to supply rapid, widespread testing” and to get more N95 masks and hospital beds before initiating a scheme to start bringing back the work force “in as early as a few weeks.” Get those tests and masks “immediately” — great idea! And the White House agrees besides! “More testing is essential,” says Larry Kudlow, “and we’re loading up on tests right now.”

But in the reality-based world, the idea that we’ll have enough capacity anytime soon should be given as much weight as Mike Pence’s weeks-ago promise that 4 million tests were on the way. So whether you’re Kudlow or Friedman or a former partner at Goldman Sachs, to posit that a return to normal in “a few weeks” would be preceded by the sudden advent of “rapid, widespread testing” is disingenuous on its face. Tests are nowhere near as available as promised, or as they need to be nationally if the density and speed of South Korea’s testing regime is used as an effective model. And even if we had the needed quantity of tests, the coronavirus has already left the barn in the United States; it is too late for mass testing to map the contours of a return-to-normal plan any time in the near or nearish future. Masks and other PPE, not to mention hospital beds and ventilators, also remain in desperate demand, and the White House, having lied for weeks that they’re on the way, is still refusing to use the federal government to mobilize their production.

So why are these return-to-normalcy enthusiasts so willing to roll the dice on public health? It depends on who’s making this pitch. Clowns like Glenn Beck, Brit Hume, and the lieutenant governor of Texas, Dan Patrick, who have volunteered that older people risk sacrificing their lives for younger generations, are just Trump lapdogs. But when someone like Lloyd Blankfein proposes that we “let those with a lower risk to the disease return to work” in “a very few weeks,” it’s another story. They are revealing their arrogance, of course — masters of the universe know more than, say, a mere civil servant like Anthony Fauci — but also their own economic isolation from the masses they are purporting to help. It’s behavior reminiscent of the titans who tried to rally Wall Street after the 1929 crash by making a big show of buying large blocks of stock. And let’s face it: Most, if not all, of these public notables who are preaching get-back-to-work-soon schemes have a cushion most Americans don’t — the means and the clout to cut the line for a coronavirus test and to secure immediate and attentive medical care away from an overflowing public hospital. This class divide is most ostentatiously exemplified by Richard Kovacevich, the former CEO of one of the most predatory banks in American history, Wells Fargo, who in giving his endorsement to a get-back-to-work scheme, said “Some may even die, I don’t know.” Doesn’t know and doesn’t care to find out, clearly. This is a guy who served on the board of Theranos, whose marketing of fraudulent blood tests was a potentially moral threat to the national health ecosystem.

It is cheering that some businessmen will have none of this. As Mark Cuban succinctly put it, “Ignore anything someone like me might say. Lives are at stake.” Bill Gates, who actually has devoted his own fortune to the amelioration of world health, implicitly called out the Cohns and Friedmans and Blankfeins by stating without equivocation that “there really is no middle ground, and it’s very tough to say to people, ‘Hey, keep going to restaurants, go buy new houses, ignore that pile of bodies over in the corner.’” He added that “it’s very irresponsible for somebody to suggest that we can have the best of both worlds.”

These exceptions are to be applauded. But overall the pandemic has revealed in particularly stark terms that the extreme economic inequalities unmasked by the 2008 economic collapse remain unaddressed. There’s a Titanic dynamic playing out now in real time. Celebrities and the wealthy are first in line for the lifeboats of coronavirus tests. Rupert Murdoch and his family protect their own healthwhile profiting from a news empire that downplayed and outright disputed the threat of the coronavirus. The permanent residents of resort towns on the Eastern seaboard are being shoved aside by prematurely returning summer vacationers who are stripping shelves of food and flooding the limited local health facilities.

As the virus spreads from its current epicenters throughout the country, the grotesque discrepancy between the elites and the have-nots is going to make Parasite look as benign as an episode of Modern Family. The anger and despair that have fueled populism in America, even to the point of inducing voters to hand power to a charlatan like Trump, may metastasize at least as fast as the plague.


Offline JRM

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 4046
    • View Profile
Re: The Trump Slump
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2020, 02:59:08 PM »
A real facepalm moment, for sure.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18084
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Trump and His Allies Have Decided to Preserve Capitalism at Any Cost
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2020, 05:26:21 AM »
Trump and His Allies Have Decided to Preserve Capitalism at Any Cost


Donald Trump speaks during a briefing on the coronavirus pandemic in the press briefing room of the White House on March 26, 2020, in Washington, D.C.
Drew Angerer / Getty Images


Published

Pastor Tony Spell of Baton Rouge knows what you can do with your social distancing. “The virus, we believe, is politically motivated,” said Spell regarding the 1,170 people who attended services at his Life Tabernacle Church on Sunday. They came on 27 buses from five parishes, and will do so again, because “it’s not a concern,” according to Spell.

Under the circumstances, it is comforting to imagine Spell as an outlier, just another flake flailing against the tide of rational medical advice coming from all corners about controlling the now-exploding spread of COVID-19.

Yet Spell has company, in the guise of no lesser a light than the Republican governor of Mississippi, Tate Reeves. After a few days of social distancing discomfort, Gov. Reeves has blown off every safety recommendation on the books and reopened a wide swath of businesses via executive order — including gun stores and real estate offices — which he has deemed “essential.”

As of this writing, Mississippi has nearly 400 active cases of coronavirus, and at least five people in that state have died. That number will grow with the help of Governor Reeves.

When Donald Trump writes a letter to the governors of Mississippi, Louisiana and the other 48 states informing them all that he is softening the COVID-19 safety guidelines, in defiance of all expert medical advice, why shouldn’t people like Pastor Spell and Governor Reeves feel free to feed their people to the virus? It’s political! The president says it, so it must be true.

There’s a lot of that sort of thing going around right now. On Wednesday, four Republican senators — Lindsey Graham, Ben Sasse, Tim Scott and Rick Scott — very nearly blew the $2 trillion stimulus/bailout bill to hell because the unemployment benefits contained within were too generous.

Feel free to read that last sentence twice. It won’t make any more sense the second time. More than three million people have filed an unemployment claim in the last several days, a number that is likely vastly undercounted due to unemployment offices getting overwhelmed by both volume and illness.

Meanwhile, hospitals in cities like New York are being hammered by the sheer numbers of sick people coming through their doors. Health care professionals all over the country lack even the most basic equipment to combat the virus because Trump ignored the problem back in January — when something concrete could and should have been done — in order to look good on television for another day.

Doctors and nurses are wearing garbage bags as safety gear because they don’t have what they need to keep themselves safe, yet they come to workevery day, until they sicken, and until they die.

Almost 75 percent of the country supports a national quarantine.

Contrast that with our coward president and his lickspittle allies. Consider that we are only at the beginning of this thing, and that the worst is yet to come by orders of virus-multiplied magnitude, and already they are buckling under the pressure from the money to “get back to normal” as soon as possible.

Something interesting is happening in China, if The Wall Street Journal has the right of it. That nation is beginning to emerge from its own devastating coronavirus experience, but business as usual doesn’t appear to be kicking back in:

In some ways, China is where the U.S. and Europe hope to be within weeks or months. Yet many Chinese factories find demand for their products has evaporated. Consumers in China and elsewhere are reluctant to spend over worries about what they have lost and what lies ahead.

For U.S. businesses tied to global trade, exporters and multinational companies, China’s limited return to normal foreshadows the potential for a sluggish U.S. recovery. Consumption, which makes up more than two-thirds of the American economy, looks to be hobbled by lost jobs, fallen income and diminished confidence for an unknown period.

Want to know why Trump and his voracious pals want to herd us back into normal life even as the air is potentially lethal with the virus? Consumption. The machine that lines their pockets has ground to a halt because people decided they want to keep breathing instead of buy stuff. That is happening in China. Wait until it happens here.

For Trump and the capitalists, that is the end of the ever-loving world as they know (and own) it. They will wring the coppers from our bones and not think twice about consumers getting consumed. Someday soon, Trump may well announce the all-clear in defiance of the experts. What remains to be seen is whether people will listen.

This is still only the beginning. Stout hearts. Do not listen to the president.

"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18084
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Some would have you believe the news is all bad.

‘He’s killing his own supporters’: Administration insider admits Trump’s coronavirus response is tragically lacking



April 6, 2020 By Travis Gettys

President Donald Trump’s chaotic response to the coronavirus outbreak will lead to thousands of deaths — and even his associates concede it will hit the president’s supporters hard.

The president has been pushing the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine as a possible treatment, but ventilators, virus tests and protective gear remain too scarce to meet growing demand as the outbreak spreads and the death count soars past 9,500, reported The Guardian.

Trump has offloaded responsibility for fighting the outbreak onto states and their governors, and one administration insider admits the outcome will be dire.

“The Trump organism is simply collapsing,” the administration insider told the newspaper. “He’s killing his own supporters.”
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18084
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Donald Trump x REM - Losing My Civilians
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2020, 04:39:47 AM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/IeT6Aeof4Ok" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/IeT6Aeof4Ok</a>
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18084
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
We Can Prevent a Great Depression. It’ll Take $10 Trillion
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2020, 04:21:58 AM »
We Can Prevent a Great Depression. It’ll Take $10 Trillion.
Don’t think of that number as “big” or “bold.” Just think of it as the appropriate dosage for a once-in-a-century economic affliction.





Derek Thompson May 18, 2020
Staff writer at The Atlantic

Last week, House Democrats unveiled their latest pandemic-relief package. The bill combines aid for families, a bailout for struggling cities and states, and additional funds for testing, tracing, and hospitals. The price tag is about $3 trillion—and it comes just weeks after the president signed an economic-relief package worth about $2 trillion.

Republicans have assailed the bill as a profligate wish list. Even Americans who are suffering from the health and economic ravages of the pandemic may feel a bit stunned by the dollar amount. Does the government really have to spend $5 trillion in three months? Can the United States afford to dump such unfathomable amounts of money into the economy?

The answers to those questions are yes and absolutely yes.

Annie Lowrey: Where is the government?

Small-business activity has plunged nationwide by nearly 50 percent. Hundreds of thousands of companies have already failed. Big retailers such as J.Crew and Neiman Marcus have filed for bankruptcy, while others, including Macy’s, are teetering. By some measures, scarcely one-third of Americans say they are working. Next month’s jobs report will likely show that, for the first time since World War II, a majority of Americans aren’t officially employed.

“The scope and speed of this downturn are without modern precedent,” Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell said on Wednesday. “Additional fiscal support could be costly but worth it if it helps avoid long-term economic damage and leaves us with a stronger recovery.”

To understand why the U.S. needs additional fiscal support, let’s review where we stand on government assistance.

In March, the U.S. passed the CARES Act, which helped families and small businesses in a variety of ways. Most famous, perhaps, were the $1,200 checks for tens of millions of families. Unemployment Insurance got a $600-a-week bump. Congress also created the Paycheck Protection Program to accelerate the distribution of emergency cash to small and medium-size businesses.

While the CARES Act was an impressive start, and the largest stimulus or relief package ever signed in U.S. history, it wasn’t enough. The $600 benefit for unemployed workers will lapse on July 31. Thousands of small businesses failed to snag necessary funds in the early rounds of the PPP. And now state and local governments are facing a catastrophic loss of tax revenue from sales and income taxes, which could force them to fire hundreds of thousands of people and slash funding for health care in the middle of a pandemic.

Derek Thompson: The economy is ruined. It didn’t have to be this way.

Preventing another Great Depression requires more relief, spread in at least four directions. The ideas and price tags below are a result of interviews with sources on the Hill.

For families: With unemployment projected to scream past 20 percent, the federal government has to step in to replace a big chunk of private-sector income. That should include adding another direct payment to families in the $1,000 range, an extension of the $600 unemployment-insurance benefit, and measures for food and housing, such as rental and mortgage support for families who might otherwise face eviction. The ideal economic-relief bill should also include a “hiring bonus” for workers who go off jobless benefits, to accelerate the labor-market recovery. Total cost: $1.2 trillion.

For businesses: PPP loan forgiveness has not worked for many small companies. The leisure and hospitality industry—which includes restaurants, hotels, and theaters—has accounted for almost half of job losses during the crisis but has received only 10 percent of the total PPP money. The federal government should guarantee zero-interest loans to small businesses that they could pay back over many years. This would give firms free money today, while pushing their expenses into the post-pandemic future. Total cost: $600 billion.

For state and local governments: After the Great Recession ended, state and local government employment continued to decline, falling by about 500,000 jobs from 2009 to 2013. The pandemic has torched income and sales taxes, which has decimated state and local-government treasuries. An analysis by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities estimates that state budget shortfalls in the next three years could approach $700 billion.

If the U.S. wants to preserve any hope of a fast recovery while protecting hospitals, schools, fire departments, and transportation systems from sudden budget cuts, the federal government has to provide aid to states and local-government budgets. The latest plan from House Democrats carves out $1 trillion for state and local governments over the next year. The best course of action might be to allocate $500 billion for this fiscal year with an automatic trigger that would authorize up to $500 billion more in 2021 or 2022 if sales and income taxes still haven’t recovered. Total cost: $500 billion to $1 trillion.

For public health: The ultimate rule of pandemic economics is that the economy won’t recover until the public-health crisis ends. The U.S. still has time to learn from what other countries are doing better. That includes increased funding for mass testing, effective contact tracing (through interviews or tech surveillance), dedicated quarantine facilities, mass production of masks, sufficient funding for health-care workers and rural hospitals, and aggressive spending across a wide range of research, including antiviral drugs and vaccines. Total cost: $200 billion.

For the future: All this may not be enough. The U.S. is, hopefully, just past the peak in domestic cases of COVID-19. But the economic fallout of socially distancing for restaurants, stores, sports, arts, and the travel and hospitality industry is just beginning. Softening the blow of these sector-by-sector micro-recessions could require several rounds of economic relief over many years.

The last recession’s miserable recovery showed that congressional politics often slows down or entirely blocks urgently needed economic stimulus. One solution: Put stimulus on autopilot. Rather than capping the four-pronged relief package described above at some arbitrary number, Congress should include automatic triggers—also known as stabilizers—that would reauthorize emergency spending for families, businesses, local governments, and public health if the economy fails to recover in the next year or two.

When you add it all up—the $3 trillion already spent, the $3 trillion now required, and trillions more to accelerate the U.S. recovery—the total price tag for averting another Great Depression could be about $10 trillion.

That number is a stunner, but so is the crisis. The U.S. economy is $22 trillion—or at least it was before the crisis. If the federal government spends $10 trillion over the next, say, four years, that would mean a fiscal shot of about 10 percent of total economic activity over that period. In an economy where one in five Americans are out of work and several industries have no clear path to normalcy, it’s not ludicrous to think that the appropriate fiscal medicine for an unprecedented crisis will amount to a tenth of GDP over several years.

Derek Thompson: It’s the pandemic, stupid

Claiming that there is no risk to the government spending any amount of money over any time period would be dishonest. But those risks are somewhat knowable. Let’s consider three.

First, there’s inflation, the risk that too much money injected into the economy will cause prices on everyday goods to skyrocket. No one can say for sure if the U.S. is due for an inflation shock on the other side of this crisis. But for the moment, the U.S. is dealing with the very opposite problem—the risk of deflation. This week, the Labor Department reported that one measure of consumer prices, called “core inflation” (which does not include energy and other volatile indexes), suffered its largest drop in the history of the statistic. Inflation hawks might think they’re preventing some future crisis by withholding government aid right now. But you don’t let a drought destroy your crops because you’re afraid about some future flood.

Second, $10 trillion of economic relief and stimulus will dramatically increase U.S. debt. But with interest rates even lower than the expected rate of inflation,the federal government can essentially borrow money for free, and it should do so.

Third, some might worry that higher debts today could augur higher taxes tomorrow. But the inconvenience of possible higher taxes in, say, 2024 has to be weighed against the economic calamity of a great depression extending its shadow across the entire 2020s.

Conservatives and others might balk at the $10 trillion figure, for its sheer largeness. But this is no time for meganumerophobia. Rather than seeing trillion-dollar relief packages as “large” or even “bold,” you should see them for what they really are: an appropriate response to a once-in-a-century economic calamity. The U.S. can avoid another Great Depression. But it has to develop the civic stomach for fiscal-spending amounts that might have seemed impossible just months ago.

Derek Thompson is a staff writer at The Atlantic, where he writes about economics, technology, and the media. He is the author of Hit Makersand the host of the podcast Crazy/Genius.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 11:53:35 AM by Surly1 »
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 40663
    • View Profile
Re: We Can Prevent a Great Depression. It’ll Take $10 Trillion
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2020, 04:56:30 AM »
$10T in Funny Money will just crash the dollar and lead to hyperinflation.  A depression is baked in the cake now either way.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Eddie

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18926
    • View Profile
Re: The Trump Slump
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2020, 05:15:59 AM »
What's wrong about this is thinking that since the government screwed up the first round of bailouts, that they will get it right this time. Not only am I worried about conduit schemes, which will be a problem again...

I'm also worried about ill-considered meddling in the rental markets. Some versions of the new bill were said to forgive rents indefinitely, while still making landlords pay 100% of their mortgages.

And btw, the "free money" the author talks about for small businesses...is still not free. It's loans that have to be repaid. Interesting biases, this guy.

I think the Republicans will get in the way of free money...even though it is needed right now....and by the time it is forthcoming, it will be way too late, and way too complicated for most people to benefit.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 40663
    • View Profile
Re: The Trump Slump
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2020, 05:57:17 AM »
What's wrong about this is thinking that since the government screwed up the first round of bailouts, that they will get it right this time. Not only am I worried about conduit schemes, which will be a problem again...

I'm also worried about ill-considered meddling in the rental markets. Some versions of the new bill were said to forgive rents indefinitely, while still making landlords pay 100% of their mortgages.

And btw, the "free money" the author talks about for small businesses...is still not free. It's loans that have to be repaid. Interesting biases, this guy.

I think the Republicans will get in the way of free money...even though it is needed right now....and by the time it is forthcoming, it will be way too late, and way too complicated for most people to benefit.

Brown Screen of Death on this one.

Note to Diner Readers:  When the BSoD appears, if you highlight the text as though you were going to copy it, it appears white against the brown background and can be read.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline luciddreams

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3436
    • View Profile
    • Epiphany Now
Re: The Trump Slump
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2020, 09:07:10 AM »
What's wrong about this is thinking that since the government screwed up the first round of bailouts, that they will get it right this time. Not only am I worried about conduit schemes, which will be a problem again...

I'm also worried about ill-considered meddling in the rental markets. Some versions of the new bill were said to forgive rents indefinitely, while still making landlords pay 100% of their mortgages.

And btw, the "free money" the author talks about for small businesses...is still not free. It's loans that have to be repaid. Interesting biases, this guy.

I think the Republicans will get in the way of free money...even though it is needed right now....and by the time it is forthcoming, it will be way too late, and way too complicated for most people to benefit.

Probably all true, but still I agree with the author.  Either way it's fucked.  There probably is no way to fix the damage that's been done to the economy.  It seems to me that the fact here is that you can't shut down large swathes of the economy and expect it to work out economically.  It's sort of like pulling the engine out of your vehicle and then expecting it to still transport you somewhere.  Yet we couldn't not shelter in place as a response.  This is a predicament. 

Given all of that, given what we have done, given that we can't go back to pre Rona' days, they may as well print the money.  GM and I have received a substantial amount of free funny money because her work vanished day one and we have two children.  Luckily I'm in a career that's essential.  I continued earning and even earned more than I was pre-Rona'.  All of that aid went into savings.  If I'm honest we didn't need the money.  We live in such a way that my income covers all of our needs with some to spare.  I'm not going to not take the free money.  How many people like me are out there?  I have essentially benefited from it.  That's not right, but it is what has happened. 

In the long term none of it will matter.  It's starting to look like there is no way to fix this.  The longer it goes on the more damage we will see.  This may very well be the moment we've all been waiting for.  Collapse. 

Offline Eddie

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18926
    • View Profile
Re: The Trump Slump
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2020, 09:39:35 AM »
Everyone should take the free money, or the loans if that's all you can get.

And bank that shit until you do need it. Nobody from the government really has any business putting strings on the money. Maybe for that hip-hop artist who took the money and bought a Rolex and a Rolls Royce....(marketing expense, I'm sure...lol.)

It's not about helping people, the free money. It's about injecting some money into retail so the numbers don't bite and WS doesn't implode. None of the people in charge give a rat's ass about the little people.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline luciddreams

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3436
    • View Profile
    • Epiphany Now
Re: The Trump Slump
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2020, 10:02:17 AM »
None of the people in charge give a rat's ass about the little people.

That much is definitely true.  Greed and willful indifference are in charge.  Even ignorance and stupidity are in charge.  Trump is hard to believe.  I mean that he exists as POTUS.  That's hard to believe.  His followers are hard to believe.  It's like the start of a dystopian comedy. 

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18084
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Re: The Trump Slump
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2020, 11:31:51 AM »
Everyone should take the free money, or the loans if that's all you can get.

And bank that shit until you do need it. Nobody from the government really has any business putting strings on the money. Maybe for that hip-hop artist who took the money and bought a Rolex and a Rolls Royce....(marketing expense, I'm sure...lol.)

It's not about helping people, the free money. It's about injecting some money into retail so the numbers don't bite and WS doesn't implode. None of the people in charge give a rat's ass about the little people.

Maybe you can pry some loose from Steve Mnuchin. He's sitting on half a trillion.
https://www.dailykos.com/story/2020/5/18/1945968/-New-oversight-panel-finds-Mnuchin-is-hanging-on-to-500-billion-from-CARES-Act
But my bet is the unless you're a Trump heavy donor, you can't get a taste.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 11:51:40 AM by Surly1 »
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline Surly1

  • Administrator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 18084
    • View Profile
    • Doomstead Diner
Re: The Trump Slump
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2020, 11:55:16 AM »
What's wrong about this is thinking that since the government screwed up the first round of bailouts, that they will get it right this time. Not only am I worried about conduit schemes, which will be a problem again...

I'm also worried about ill-considered meddling in the rental markets. Some versions of the new bill were said to forgive rents indefinitely, while still making landlords pay 100% of their mortgages.

And btw, the "free money" the author talks about for small businesses...is still not free. It's loans that have to be repaid. Interesting biases, this guy.

I think the Republicans will get in the way of free money...even though it is needed right now....and by the time it is forthcoming, it will be way too late, and way too complicated for most people to benefit.

Brown Screen of Death on this one.

[color=]Note to Diner Readers:  When the BSoD appears, if you highlight the text as though you were going to copy it, it appears white against the brown background and can be read.[/color]

RE

I just stripped the html out of the OP. Hope that helps. I cannot figure out what causes the BSoD.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
741 Views
Last post September 04, 2015, 03:42:12 PM
by Palloy
2 Replies
860 Views
Last post November 11, 2016, 08:23:14 PM
by MKing
19 Replies
2068 Views
Last post January 29, 2017, 01:28:58 PM
by JRM