AuthorTopic: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg  (Read 332 times)

Offline Cam

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I visited http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/ after K-Dog posted it in the Planet of the Humans thread. I'm currently reading part VI of the Manufacturing Greta Thunberg series. Before this I knew that big corporations are too powerful and without morals, but this series really punched me in the gut. It is heartbreaking to me that the climate movement does not have the grass-roots origins it is portrayed to have. Not only that, the fact that what is left of nature is being commodified in the 'New Deal for Nature' really hurts. I guess I did still have some faith in the climate movement even if I didn't realize it, before reading this. Now that faith is practically gone.

I gotta give it to those elites at the top: they're a wily bunch. Get the public all riled up about a climate emergency. Conduct elaborate social engineering for a decade or more. Create a Green New Deal. Enlist youth (who have genuine intentions!) to spread the message to the masses that climate change must be stopped. Then unlock $100,000,000,000,000 from the public purse to revive the global economic growth.

It's so goddamn brilliant because climate change IS a serious problem and we all know that. Rather than simply denying climate change, the Big Ones at the top decided to get behind the message, once they realized just how much money could be made to 'save the world'. It is disgusting and heartbreaking and angering. Thank you for sharing the link K-Dog. The more I learn about the evil that runs rampant in the world, the more I am reminded of the importance to stay kind in these times. Even if sounds cheesy, it's the conclusion I keep coming to in learning about collapse. Be kind, and do what you can to nourish what is left of nature.

Offline JRM

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2020, 08:45:43 AM »
The first thing to keep in mind when reading WrongKindOfGreen and Ms. Morningstar (or whatever her name is) is that the climate crisis is very real.  The second thing is that these writers may be exaggerating the case about corporate manipulation of the climate and environmental movement.  I say "may be". That's important to keep in mind. May be.

It's good to think of things on a spectrum. Certainly the billionaire class has been manipulating the environmental movement from day one. We KNOW that. WrongKindOfGreen exists on one far end of the spectrum of reporting on (and speculating on) what's going on there.  An open mind is needed for the middle zones on that spectrum, too.  Use due diligence that you are not unwittingly manipulated by any of the players. Check facts. Dig deep. Keep your mind open.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline Eddie

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2020, 08:56:11 AM »
The first thing to keep in mind when reading WrongKindOfGreen and Ms. Morningstar (or whatever her name is) is that the climate crisis is very real.  The second thing is that these writers may be exaggerating the case about corporate manipulation of the climate and environmental movement.  I say "may be". That's important to keep in mind. May be.

It's good to think of things on a spectrum. Certainly the billionaire class has been manipulating the environmental movement from day one. We KNOW that. WrongKindOfGreen exists on one far end of the spectrum of reporting on (and speculating on) what's going on there.  An open mind is needed for the middle zones on that spectrum, too.  Use due diligence that you are not unwittingly manipulated by any of the players. Check facts. Dig deep. Keep your mind open.

Excellent advice.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Cam

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2020, 09:34:55 AM »
Thanks JRM will do. This just came as a shock to me because I was holding the belief (again without realizing it) that the climate and environmental movement were mostly if not totally organic. That's what has been knocked out of my head. There is a real danger of reading this and thinking 'gee so climate change isn't that serious, nice' but I do know it's quite a mess. It's just that the message is being spread by far more powerful people than I had assumed, and with very different intentions than most other people. It's a shock but it certainly doesn't minimize the need for serious changes in how we live.

Offline JRM

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2020, 10:10:15 AM »
Thanks JRM will do. This just came as a shock to me because I was holding the belief (again without realizing it) that the climate and environmental movement were mostly if not totally organic. That's what has been knocked out of my head. There is a real danger of reading this and thinking 'gee so climate change isn't that serious, nice' but I do know it's quite a mess. It's just that the message is being spread by far more powerful people than I had assumed, and with very different intentions than most other people. It's a shock but it certainly doesn't minimize the need for serious changes in how we live.

I do believe the climate movement has been largely hijacked by those who want to reap profits on so-called "green energy".  The key word in that sentence is "largely". Not entirely. Merely largely.

But the "green energy" narrative is super extra easy to purvey to typical, average folks living in "advanced industrial nations" because it encourages us to think that we don't have to take an energy descent pathway into the future. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_descent

By the way, most of the words in this particular Wikipedia are my own.  I dramatically "edited" (revised) it to bring it up to date. The previous version was all about involuntary energy descent as a result of fossil fuel (mostly oil) depletion, which as we see is not a problem right at this very moment. (It may become one in the future real soon if we continue to behave like imbeciles, or if the Corona doesn't utterly crash the global economy for decades in a collapse worse than the Great Depression, etc.)

In my view, voluntary energy descent should be one of a very few essentially equal items right atop the priority list of all societies, all nations, the world as a whole.  I also side with the so-called "de-growth" movement (I have to put the hyphen in that word, which isn't supposed to be there, or my computer's spell check will throw a fit).

My views on this are marginalized out onto the margins of marginal territory, so I don't think we will be doing it. But we SHOULD, and I can't give up on advancing this agenda as the best option in our world.

Voluntary energy descent is not desirable to most folks, 'cause most folks want to continue to depend on automobiles, fly to far off places on vacation, eat the produce of industrial agriculture, live in oversized houses, and otherwise burn fossil fuels as if there is no tomorrow. There may not be. We may kill tomorrow for the privilege of driving around in circles while well, fondling ourselves.

The billionaires and corporations are headed up by sociopathic narcissists who sincerely don't give a flying fork about people or the planet. They do, however, care a great deal about making another fifty or hundred million or billion dollars. It seems money is the ONLY thing they value.  And green energy can be quite lucrative, though advancing that as THE SOLUTION to the climate or ecological crisis is beyond ludicrous, and all of the real experts  (such as my friend Richard Heinberg) know it.

Industrial civilization will be pretty much over in a decade or two, I suspect, whether through voluntary or involuntary means -- and likely through both.  The ONLY rational response to our world now is to try and make the transition as happy and smooth as possible through voluntary energy descent, permaculture practices, ecological design, and abandonment of dependency on the gargantuan apparatus of technological civilization.  (Which doesn't mean abandoning all technology. It means being selective in its use and in our dependency upon it.)

Mostly, "green energy" is a scam -- but only because it can't possibly be the whole solution to this mammoth crisis we are in, and certain dipshits want to sell us the idea that it is the whole solution.  It isn't even close to all that. Most of the solution will have to be voluntary energy descent, as in at least 75% of the whole solution.  More likey 90% in the available time frame.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline JRM

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2020, 10:19:14 AM »
The first thing to keep in mind when reading WrongKindOfGreen and Ms. Morningstar (or whatever her name is) is that the climate crisis is very real.  The second thing is that these writers may be exaggerating the case about corporate manipulation of the climate and environmental movement.  I say "may be". That's important to keep in mind. May be.

It's good to think of things on a spectrum. Certainly the billionaire class has been manipulating the environmental movement from day one. We KNOW that. WrongKindOfGreen exists on one far end of the spectrum of reporting on (and speculating on) what's going on there.  An open mind is needed for the middle zones on that spectrum, too.  Use due diligence that you are not unwittingly manipulated by any of the players. Check facts. Dig deep. Keep your mind open.

Excellent advice.

Thanks Eddie.
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline Eddie

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2020, 10:40:23 AM »
Thanks JRM will do. This just came as a shock to me because I was holding the belief (again without realizing it) that the climate and environmental movement were mostly if not totally organic. That's what has been knocked out of my head. There is a real danger of reading this and thinking 'gee so climate change isn't that serious, nice' but I do know it's quite a mess. It's just that the message is being spread by far more powerful people than I had assumed, and with very different intentions than most other people. It's a shock but it certainly doesn't minimize the need for serious changes in how we live.

I do believe the climate movement has been largely hijacked by those who want to reap profits on so-called "green energy".  The key word in that sentence is "largely". Not entirely. Merely largely.

But the "green energy" narrative is super extra easy to purvey to typical, average folks living in "advanced industrial nations" because it encourages us to think that we don't have to take an energy descent pathway into the future. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_descent

By the way, most of the words in this particular Wikipedia are my own.  I dramatically "edited" (revised) it to bring it up to date. The previous version was all about involuntary energy descent as a result of fossil fuel (mostly oil) depletion, which as we see is not a problem right at this very moment. (It may become one in the future real soon if we continue to behave like imbeciles, or if the Corona doesn't utterly crash the global economy for decades in a collapse worse than the Great Depression, etc.)

In my view, voluntary energy descent should be one of a very few essentially equal items right atop the priority list of all societies, all nations, the world as a whole.  I also side with the so-called "de-growth" movement (I have to put the hyphen in that word, which isn't supposed to be there, or my computer's spell check will throw a fit).

My views on this are marginalized out onto the margins of marginal territory, so I don't think we will be doing it. But we SHOULD, and I can't give up on advancing this agenda as the best option in our world.

Voluntary energy descent is not desirable to most folks, 'cause most folks want to continue to depend on automobiles, fly to far off places on vacation, eat the produce of industrial agriculture, live in oversized houses, and otherwise burn fossil fuels as if there is no tomorrow. There may not be. We may kill tomorrow for the privilege of driving around in circles while well, fondling ourselves.

The billionaires and corporations are headed up by sociopathic narcissists who sincerely don't give a flying fork about people or the planet. They do, however, care a great deal about making another fifty or hundred million or billion dollars. It seems money is the ONLY thing they value.  And green energy can be quite lucrative, though advancing that as THE SOLUTION to the climate or ecological crisis is beyond ludicrous, and all of the real experts  (such as my friend Richard Heinberg) know it.

Industrial civilization will be pretty much over in a decade or two, I suspect, whether through voluntary or involuntary means -- and likely through both.  The ONLY rational response to our world now is to try and make the transition as happy and smooth as possible through voluntary energy descent, permaculture practices, ecological design, and abandonment of dependency on the gargantuan apparatus of technological civilization.  (Which doesn't mean abandoning all technology. It means being selective in its use and in our dependency upon it.)

Mostly, "green energy" is a scam -- but only because it can't possibly be the whole solution to this mammoth crisis we are in, and certain dipshits want to sell us the idea that it is the whole solution.  It isn't even close to all that. Most of the solution will have to be voluntary energy descent, as in at least 75% of the whole solution.  More likey 90% in the available time frame.

I'm in general agreement with this......but I view green energy not as a scam.....but as a stop-gap and a very sensible thing to embrace on a small scale....but not on a giant corporate scale to to try to replace FF's . In that sense it will be a miserable failure. On a personal and local scale it has much more promise. Most small scale power generating systems are durable and long-lasting. I advise getting some...or at least learning about how it works. It's one of the first things I did to try to educate myself.....a long time ago now.

Rationality does not enter into the equation of powering down, imho. I'm not sure I'd even say that most those who are advocating for a voluntary powering down are rational. How rational can it be...to make your life harder, when it's fairly obvious it will get here soon enough....and that soon there will be plenty of hardship go around?

There is absolutely no hope for any sensible solution to any of complex civilization's problems. No political will. Very little understanding of the problem set......by either our so-called leadership...or the population at large.

I have always said, and still say...that you can't keep doing nearly everything wrong and expect a good outcome......and that is exactly what keeps happening.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2020, 10:53:52 AM »
I do fully expect to see a new generation of nuclear energy. I don't necessarily think that's good, but it will be another stop-gap, and it has way more promise than solar as far as the number of waste-able gigawatts that can be cranked out. Big money, Bill Gates' money, is being spent on it. We, some of us. will probably live to see it come online.

That's why electric cars will see their day.....and electric trucks too, I expect.

I expect an increasing divide between haves and have nots......the have-nots will power down, because they have zero choice in the matter. Some of them will devise very ingenious solutions to many of the new problems....like growing food, getting adequate shelter, and producing (and stealing) tiny amounts of power for electronic devices

I can see BAU persisting for some time...but it won't be like it is now, where even poor people have quite a lot.....and they do still , compared to the historical past.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 10:57:16 AM by Eddie »
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2020, 11:10:14 AM »
I visited http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/ after K-Dog posted it in the Planet of the Humans thread. I'm currently reading part VI of the Manufacturing Greta Thunberg series. Before this I knew that big corporations are too powerful and without morals, but this series really punched me in the gut. It is heartbreaking to me that the climate movement does not have the grass-roots origins it is portrayed to have. Not only that, the fact that what is left of nature is being commodified in the 'New Deal for Nature' really hurts. I guess I did still have some faith in the climate movement even if I didn't realize it, before reading this. Now that faith is practically gone.

I gotta give it to those elites at the top: they're a wily bunch. Get the public all riled up about a climate emergency. Conduct elaborate social engineering for a decade or more. Create a Green New Deal. Enlist youth (who have genuine intentions!) to spread the message to the masses that climate change must be stopped. Then unlock $100,000,000,000,000 from the public purse to revive the global economic growth.

It's so goddamn brilliant because climate change IS a serious problem and we all know that. Rather than simply denying climate change, the Big Ones at the top decided to get behind the message, once they realized just how much money could be made to 'save the world'. It is disgusting and heartbreaking and angering. Thank you for sharing the link K-Dog. The more I learn about the evil that runs rampant in the world, the more I am reminded of the importance to stay kind in these times. Even if sounds cheesy, it's the conclusion I keep coming to in learning about collapse. Be kind, and do what you can to nourish what is left of nature.

Thank You, I'm here to help.  The plan has been to put the onus on the consumer and gaslight that they have no choice in the matter.



Quote
Keep America Beautiful was founded in December 1953 by a group of American businesses (including companies such as American Can Company, Continental Can Company, Owens-Illinois Glass Co.), nonprofit organizations (Izaak Walton League of America, National Council of State Garden Clubs, U.S. Brewers Foundation), government agencies (Connecticut State Highway Dept., N.Y. State Department of Public Works), and concerned individuals

Iron Eyes Cody born Espera Oscar de Corti, was an Italian-American actor. He portrayed Native Americans in Hollywood films.  He claimed to be of native decent making himself an American of the common lying kind.

If a doomer isn't advocating extreme lifestyle change and peddles hope that this party can go on with a few social and technical tweeks they are posers and agents of Satan.
Quote
4% of animals are wild, 4% of energy is renewable, C02 up 50% in 30 years, humans and livestock are 96% of animals by weight on land. It will take Michael Moore and Global Socialism 50 years to wipe its ass, we have to stop burning 55% of fossil fuels in 10 years or runaway hothouse mass extinction starts 2030. It cannot stop or reverse once started.  <-- https://lokisrevengeblog.wordpress.com/author/lokisrevengeblog/

Greta I hope, learns to use the users who use her.  Time will tell.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 11:26:47 AM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline JRM

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2020, 11:17:58 AM »
"The plan has been to put the onus on the consumer...."

It's much, much worse than that.  The plan has been to turn human beings into "consumers" (of culture), rather than its producers.

It's a perfect prison, because the captives don't even know they are in prison. They think they are free!
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2020, 11:32:59 AM »
"The plan has been to put the onus on the consumer...."

It's much, much worse than that.  The plan has been to turn human beings into "consumers" (of culture), rather than its producers.

It's a perfect prison, because the captives don't even know they are in prison. They think they are free!

They think they are free.  Arbeit macht frei they see.  But the lives forced on them mean that their lives will never mean anything.  Everything they ever do will be consumed.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline RE

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2020, 11:35:39 AM »
I do fully expect to see a new generation of nuclear energy. I don't necessarily think that's good, but it will be another stop-gap, and it has way more promise than solar as far as the number of waste-able gigawatts that can be cranked out. Big money, Bill Gates' money, is being spent on it. We, some of us. will probably live to see it come online.

That's why electric cars will see their day.....and electric trucks too, I expect.

I have to disagree.  The infrastructure surrounding Nuke Puke Power is simply too expensive to maintain. Its not just the cost of the Power Plants, its the 1000s of miles of Copper Cable and all the Transformers needed to deliver that much power to Electric Carz and Trucks.

The roads are also too expensive to maintain for a few Rich folks who can afford an EV.  I discuss this problem in today's video.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2020, 11:47:57 AM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/mGvYFB6GHRY" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/mGvYFB6GHRY</a>

See it if you can.  I was presented the opportunity of watching it.  A fascinating story.  When it was happening I did not think it was good science which is what the media portrayed it as back then.  I did not know any of the social history.  Steve Bannon gets involved at the end when the money that financed the whole project got insulted and took ownership away from the founders.

The University of Arizona took full ownership of the structure in 2011.

Looking back environmental understanding has evolved among those who care about such things. 

Space, we are not going to space in any big way anytime soon. We don't have the fucking oil or resources to do it.  But some of the intentions of the biospherians were good.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2020, 11:54:34 AM »
I do fully expect to see a new generation of nuclear energy. I don't necessarily think that's good, but it will be another stop-gap, and it has way more promise than solar as far as the number of waste-able gigawatts that can be cranked out. Big money, Bill Gates' money, is being spent on it. We, some of us. will probably live to see it come online.

That's why electric cars will see their day.....and electric trucks too, I expect.

I have to disagree.  The infrastructure surrounding Nuke Puke Power is simply too expensive to maintain. Its not just the cost of the Power Plants, its the 1000s of miles of Copper Cable and all the Transformers needed to deliver that much power to Electric Carz and Trucks.

The roads are also too expensive to maintain for a few Rich folks who can afford an EV.  I discuss this problem in today's video.

RE

The grid is already there. While it isn't in great repair, it isn't about to stop working completely either. As long as we have tax slaves with a little blood to suck, nukes will be the perfect kind of conduit schemed to keep the government money flowing to the corporations who build that kind of project.

And they can sell bonds too. Lots of money sloshing around at the top, looking for some return.

The roads here are just fine. They're still building new super highways....they've just all turned into tollways people have to pay to use. It suddenly happened all a once in Texas. Republican politics and lots of graft to politicians....and it was a done deal.

Socialized costs and privatized profits.

Airport are going to change......not doubt. But I don't know about short term holes in the runways.....unless China bombs us.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline K-Dog

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Re: Cam Learns of Corporatism - The Manufacturing of Greta Thunberg
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2020, 12:03:28 PM »
I do fully expect to see a new generation of nuclear energy. I don't necessarily think that's good, but it will be another stop-gap, and it has way more promise than solar as far as the number of waste-able gigawatts that can be cranked out. Big money, Bill Gates' money, is being spent on it. We, some of us. will probably live to see it come online.

That's why electric cars will see their day.....and electric trucks too, I expect.

I have to disagree.  The infrastructure surrounding Nuke Puke Power is simply too expensive to maintain. Its not just the cost of the Power Plants, its the 1000s of miles of Copper Cable and all the Transformers needed to deliver that much power to Electric Carz and Trucks.

The roads are also too expensive to maintain for a few Rich folks who can afford an EV.  I discuss this problem in today's video.

RE

A problem with the electric truck could be resolved by frequent changes of battery at fuel stops.  This also allows batteries to be charged at normal rates since they are switched out.  It also puts a fuck of a lot of people to work and helps build an economy but who gives two shits about building a new significant infrastructure?

Lack of resources and economic viability make the use of a truck relay system impossible for practical reasons but the technical limitations of battery powered trucks are not an issue if you re-imagine re-configuring the fuel delivery system which most people are too stupid to do, sorry to say.  Batteries are fuel.  Most can only think of replacement and straight up substitution but when a technical superstructure dramatically changes it becomes necessary to re-imagine the problem from basic principles.
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

 

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