AuthorTopic: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?  (Read 172 times)

Offline Eddie

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What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« on: June 02, 2020, 02:06:17 PM »
No doubt cops are harder on black people. There are racist cops.....and probably sadist cops...and racist, sadist cops.

But not all cops are racists, and not all are sadists. There are obvious reasons that black people run into lots of trouble with the police. Things that have less to do with any form of racism by whites than what is being suggested in the media this week.

I'm going to mention the things that are being ignored by the media.

Number one is violent crime.

Black people are 13% of the population. But they commit 52% of the homicides in this country. 93% of those homicides were committed against other blacks.

Gun assaults with non-fatal shootings are also heavily skewed......the vast majority of assaults that involve a shooting..... involve black and hispanic victims and a black or hispanic shooter. If you're thinking "gang-related"...well, that'd be correct.

Some of this,,,,,,a fair percentage, IS  gang-related. 35% of youth gangs are made up of blacks,,,,,,and hispanics make up an even higher percentage...46%.

81% of criminal gang members therefore.....are persons of color.

You might not know this, but black victims report crimes at a significantly higher rate than non-whites. This make sense....since racially mixed neighborhoods in large urban centers are higher crime areas. Blacks not only commit more crimes per capita,  they have to LIVE with crime....day in and day out. More crime equals more chances to deal with cops.

And just maybe........the whites who complain about black-on-white crime aren't necessarily totally racist. Blacks commit 62% of robberies....and robberies against whites...by blacks....are 12 TIMES as frequent as vice versa.


All these tidbits are straight out of Wiki.  I didn't make any of it up.

Me pointing this out does NOT make me a racist. These stats are important....and the reason they're important is that until the REAL underlying issues that explain these disturbing numbers are faced.....and somehow changed, the black community in this country is going to have to deal with police more than the rest of us do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

So....there is also a huge body of work out there that tries to explain WHY (mostly) YOUNG blacks commit a huge outsize portion of the crime in this country.  Because the stats are skewed....a LOT....toward the younger members of the black community. And especially toward young males.

This week I have read about "institutionalized racism" that denies blacks entry to the best schools. This has some truth in it. But there is another side to the failure in education.....and it has to do with black culture.

Only 10% of black male 8th graders in America are proficient at reading.....and it's lower in urban centers. As many as 75% of young black males in California can't meet the minimum standards and pass the reading test.

WHY is that?

I would suggest, and I invite you to prove otherwise, that reading is a low priority in most black households. My own experience tells me that SPORTS are given a MUCH higher priority...and of the black kids it's been my privilege to watch grow up....the dreams that black kids have.....for their lives.....are centered on the hope of becoming a professional athlete......or a music star....

While these are very obvious ways......that many gifted black athletes and artists have elevated themselves to fame and financial success...it is the equivalent of all young girls wanting to be movie starlets or runway models.......the openings in those trades are few....and while a few do go on to fame and fortune......for most people it simply is not going to pan out.

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that I think most schools in this country, even the worst inner city schools, do make an effort to graduate kids who are not completely illiterate.

But you can lead a horse to water, but if he doesn't want to drink...he won't.

And if students don't even COME to school, then chances are......whatever program is in place will fail. Absenteeism among black kids nationally..... is 3X that of whites in elementary and middle schools and 2X in high school. By middle school the reading battle is won or lost. Not many people learn to read in high school.


There are also many studies..... that purport to EXPLAIN why black young men as a group, do not master reading in school.

They used to say it was because they arrived to school hungry....and so now most inner-city "at risk" youth get fed as part of the school day. While eliminating hunger in school kids is a worthy objective, in and of itself.......it does NOT appear to have made much difference on the reading test.

More black kids experience trauma and family violence..that has been suggested as an explanation... and they do experience trauma and violence.....but so do many kids of other races....and they still learn the basic reading skills.

Racists would say that black kids aren't capable..that they lack the intellect.......but I think this is pure bullshit. I just don't believe that....

My belief is that in America (not sure it applies elsewhere)...that the African-American culture remains....much more than it should in the 21st century...a SPOKEN WORD culture...and that many blacks go all the way through their working careers as functional illiterates.

Obviously, there are plenty of well-educated black people in the US.....but the numbers......those who aren't....it's pretty staggering really.

All week I've listened to people explain to me that black people burning down buildings and cities is not crime.....it's REBELLION when they do it, because they are OPPRESSED.

WHITE PRIVILEGE......Systemic Racism is the word of the day.

The narrative is so pervasive among the white liberal-leaning public.....so oft-repeated that a MAJORITY of white people, even including Republicans, when polled , say police treat blacks unfairly and subject them to too much violence. Duh.....I don't think more than a very few...the real racist fringe.......want to see black people murdered by police. I just don't think it's true.  I don't think we have millions of white people just waiting for a chance to commit genocide.....most of them would like to see the tension between the races ease.



But I don't even see a half-way decent effort being made to take advantage of the existing educational system...period. We need better schools? I doubt the best school in the world will teach a kid who doesn't even show up, because nobody makes him.

But if ALL...or even MOST African Americans were well-educated......enough to hack the curriculum at the university.....I think.....that the high correlation between having dark skin...and being involved in crime....would eventually just go away. It isn't our black university grads who are being incarcerated. I've read professors of African-American studies who complain that not as many black PhD's  are getting tenure these days....Well, welcome to the club. That is also true of white PhD's.....

It beats going to prison.

I am of the opinion that the "police problems" faced by the African-American community can't and won't ever be fixed by fixing what's wrong with white people.

Nor can what is wrong be completely explained by blaming white people.

But that is the narrative.


.












 

« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 05:00:52 PM by Eddie »
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2020, 06:22:51 PM »
Well said Eddie.

I'm sure you will be accused of being racist and using your white privilege on that rant. 

As far as I'm concerned you are speaking truth to distortion.  It's completely out of control at this point.  I think it's high time that the "black card" gets pulled.  It's time to take responsibility for yourself. 

It's a tragedy what happened.  That cop needs to be racked over the coals for what he did.  It was horrendous to be sure.  I haven't watched the video.  I don't need to cry.  I probably would cry if I watched that video.  I almost cry just looking at the image of that fucking cock socket kneeing on Flynn's neck.  I want to say that I'd have no problem choking that racist bigot cop to death myself.  However I also understand that the rule of law, justice, requires he have his day in court.  I also understand that the ten minute video, that I did not watch, had many moments before it.  That is to say that what social media portrayed was not the whole picture. 

Regardless, this is what I know is true.  Flynn was handcuffed.  Problem solved at that point.  There is no reason to assert any violence past that point.  You could be the biggest meat head jacked up on pcp and meth, and if you are cuffed with your hands behind your back and on the ground you are neutralized.  No reason for force beyond that point.  That cop deserves to rot in prison for the rest of his life for that shit.  The cops watching I can't say because I wasn't there, and I won't watch the video because I have no desire to cry.

What you have said about black culture in Murika is true.  I want to officially back you on that.  It's true and social justice warriors can pretend it's not all they want to.  You can pretend there is a rainbow, unicorn, leprechaun, skittle, gold, diamond, platinum, free, clean energy fusion reactor robocop, scintillating fart arroma if you want to.  Doesn't mean it exists. 

What you said in the above post is true.  It's statistically true (outside of your opinions).  There is no reason why our buildings should be burning because of one racists asshole.  There is no reason why we should have citywide curfews and be facing down martial law.  This is simply ridiculous. 

It's not racist to point out statistics.  It is, however, scientific.  That is, statistics are scientific facts.  Mostly.  They can be plastic.  But that's not here nor there.  The statistics you pointed out are not plastic, they are valid.  They are not nothing.  They should not be glossed over.  We don't owe the black culture a culture of willful delusions in service of pretending that nature, or human culture, is fair.   
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 06:26:26 PM by luciddreams »

Offline RE

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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2020, 06:33:30 PM »
There is no reason why our buildings should be burning because of one racists asshole. 

They're not burning because of one racist asshole.  They're burning because of thehundreds if not thousands of similar instances that came before it.  This was just the straw that broke the Camel's Back.  The Gestapo finally pulled the wrong stick out from the Jenga Tower and now it all comes a Tumblin' down.



RE
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2020, 06:42:36 PM »
There is no reason why our buildings should be burning because of one racists asshole. 

They're not burning because of one racist asshole.  They're burning because of thehundreds if not thousands of similar instances that came before it.  This was just the straw that broke the Camel's Back.  The Gestapo finally pulled the wrong stick out from the Jenga Tower and now it all comes a Tumblin' down.



RE

That kid might have pulled that piece of wood out of the Jenga pile had that asshole adult not poked his back.

But to your point, I'll concede that you have a good point. 

However, I think modern day people are out of touch with the reality of nature and our place in it.  The poorest bum has it better than kings of yore had it.  Our quality of life is orders of magnitude better than not even 200 years ago.  Compared to just 100 years ago the average sapien level of physical suffering isn't even in the same room.  Compared to 70 years ago blacks civil rights are in a different time and country.  Same with females and the lbgtqwz community.

People have lost sight of reality due to their screens.  People have given up social lives for social media.  People have lost their fucking minds. 

And yes, our society, our civilization, is collapsing before our eys.

I just hope I get my fucking house before the last piece of shit shuts the giant fan down. 

Offline Cam

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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2020, 07:12:53 PM »
These are interesting stats Eddie and they certainly don't appear in the media. I've never seen them before. I think in most movements things are simplified to make a catchier more coherent message, and this happened in Black Lives Matter too. It isn't as simple as 'cops are racist and we need to fix it'. That isn't totally wrong but it doesn't capture the whole problem either. When you mention the stats on gang violence and crime, it makes me think 'poverty' as at least one of the root causes. I googled poverty and race stats and came up with 26.2% of black people and 10.1% of white people living below the poverty line. I think if a young black person is living in a family who can't quite pay the bills then going to school becomes less of a priority than before. If he or she (I think it's usually guys that end up in gangs) needs to help pay the bills and selling drugs is one of the few options, then that's what they get into. This gets them involved in gangs and the related crimes that go along with that. This isn't only with black people, most of my 'knowledge' of this stuff comes my mom who teaches kids, some of which come from poor families. But the higher rate of poverty among black people might have a big effect on how this all plays out. Oh and interesting tidbit hispanic poverty rates are 23.6% so also pretty high, which correlates with the gang violence too. I have no clue how to 'fix' poverty but I think improving economic situations could help a lot of these issues.

Offline luciddreams

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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2020, 08:26:18 PM »
These are interesting stats Eddie and they certainly don't appear in the media. I've never seen them before. I think in most movements things are simplified to make a catchier more coherent message, and this happened in Black Lives Matter too. It isn't as simple as 'cops are racist and we need to fix it'. That isn't totally wrong but it doesn't capture the whole problem either. When you mention the stats on gang violence and crime, it makes me think 'poverty' as at least one of the root causes. I googled poverty and race stats and came up with 26.2% of black people and 10.1% of white people living below the poverty line. I think if a young black person is living in a family who can't quite pay the bills then going to school becomes less of a priority than before. If he or she (I think it's usually guys that end up in gangs) needs to help pay the bills and selling drugs is one of the few options, then that's what they get into. This gets them involved in gangs and the related crimes that go along with that. This isn't only with black people, most of my 'knowledge' of this stuff comes my mom who teaches kids, some of which come from poor families. But the higher rate of poverty among black people might have a big effect on how this all plays out. Oh and interesting tidbit hispanic poverty rates are 23.6% so also pretty high, which correlates with the gang violence too. I have no clue how to 'fix' poverty but I think improving economic situations could help a lot of these issues.

As RE has pointed out, the main issue is economics.  Poverty definitely creates the need for crime.  Blacks suffer from more poverty in Murika.  Ergo, blacks are a higher population in our prisons, and they die more from police violence.  It's not that they die more because whitey is out to kill them.  Sometimes that is the case, as was the case, at least it appears so, with George Flynn.  Sometimes a sadistic fuck hangs a 9 year old from a pipe by her neck and jacks off on her leg.  There are people that are fucked up in this world, and that has always been the case. 

We shouldn't go burning down civilization based on that fact. 

Civilization is going to burn down soon enough due to resource depletion.  No reason to hurry things along. 

It used to be that blacks had a good case for affirmative action.  They got affirmative action.  Now they just want a degree that they don't have to work for, and they want that to come with a job that makes them rich.  They don't care about the Asian wage slaves that make the iphones that they post on twitter with about how whittey is a racist fuck. 

Some whittey's are racist fucks.  Some blacks are racist fucks.  Some boogaloonglinguis are racist fucks.  People can suck morally.  Mostly because they didn't have the opportunity to open their minds up to hard won human knowledge.  The scientific revolution, the enlightenment, gave us irrefutable fact that skin color was just based on a physiological process.  It has nothing to do with intellect, worth, or anything other than physiology. 

Yet somehow our cities are burning and we are looking at martial law.  Is it skin color or history?  What should either of those things have to do with the present? 

Offline RE

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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2020, 08:48:24 PM »
Yet somehow our cities are burning and we are looking at martial law.  Is it skin color or history?  What should either of those things have to do with the present?

It is as I have been at pains relentlessly to demonstrate an artifact and outcome of the Capitalist system and the inequitable distribution of wealth in this type of social/economic organization.

Crime is the outcome of people who are mired in poverty and have to find some way to survive.  You know, not every poor kid is a fucking genius who can climb out of Poverty because of extraordinary intellect.  There are always a few Horatio Algers who climb out of poverty this way, but it's a tiny percentage.  Again, you gotta look at the aggregate, not individual case stories of successes in the face of massive obstacles.  MOST people born into poverty CANNOT climb out of it, they simply don't have the tools to do it.  If they are a 7' tall black kid from the basketball parks in Harlem they can do it, or a 350 lb Middle Linebacker from a Texas HS Football team they can do it, if they are Neil DeGrasse Tyson and brilliant Physicist they can do it, but this a a statistically insignificant portion of the population.

So, you have a caste in the society that is perpetually Underclass, and that is where the crime stems from.  How do you rectify this problem?  You must develop a more equitable economic system.  Without that, the violence will continue and it will escalate.  You can carve that into stone tablets.  That is all she wrote.

RE
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 08:52:47 PM by RE »
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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2020, 03:21:46 AM »
There is no reason why our buildings should be burning because of one racists asshole. 

They're not burning because of one racist asshole.  They're burning because of thehundreds if not thousands of similar instances that came before it.  This was just the straw that broke the Camel's Back.  The Gestapo finally pulled the wrong stick out from the Jenga Tower and now it all comes a Tumblin' down.



RE

That kid might have pulled that piece of wood out of the Jenga pile had that asshole adult not poked his back.

To me, that's the point. There is ALWAYS an unseen adult to poke an otherwise well-meaning kid in the back. that's the job of the police, the occupation army of capital.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2020, 04:22:41 AM »

I am of the opinion that the "police problems" faced by the African-American community can't and won't ever be fixed by fixing what's wrong with white people.

Nor can what is wrong be completely explained by blaming white people.

But that is the narrative.

Thus making you wrong.

The families and survivors of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, Eric Garner, Philando Castile, Alton Sterling, Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, Trayvon Martin et al would beg to differ.

The ONLY thing that changes this is "fixing what's wrong" with white people. Starting with the presumption that Black people, as conditional citizens, are subject to detention and summary execution at will. That would be swell, wouldn't fit?

Also ending the pernicious doctrine of "qualified immunity" for rogue cops. Reform of the carceral state is another.

There are plenty of other issues for blacks. But those won't be addressed until open season on blacks with no bag limit is ended.

That's going to require a generation or two to die off.
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy now, walk humbly now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it."

Offline luciddreams

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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2020, 06:24:38 AM »


So, you have a caste in the society that is perpetually Underclass, and that is where the crime stems from.  How do you rectify this problem?  You must develop a more equitable economic system.  Without that, the violence will continue and it will escalate.  You can carve that into stone tablets.  That is all she wrote.

RE

Yep, that's the goal of socialism.  We see how that went for the Soviet Union.  It doesn't work, at least not as they did it.  It was a pile of steaming equity shit for the people.  You can live better than most soviets did in the fsoa and not even work a job.  The government will house you, feed you, and provide you medical care for free.  All you have to do is start slingin' dope for your spending money. 

I'd love it to be fair and equitable for all people.  That runs against nature and human ecology.  The thing with universal healthcare is that it's really just more fair for the working class.  The poor already get free healthcare.  I know because I was on medicaid for a couple of years.  Never had to pay a dime.  I went to work and now I pay $600 a month plus a 2k per family member deductible, plus copays and percentages depending on what is needed.  When I was on medicaid we just went to the doctor or the hospital, got treated, and got no bill.  But that's another story. 

What I'm getting at is that socialism was tried and failed.  It just doesn't work.  Communism works but who wants communism?  It's even more horrible than socialism.  So what is the more equitable system?  In my opinion capitalism regulated by a democratic government is as good as you are going to get for a human civilization.  Life is certainly better now, by leaps and bounds, than it has ever been for any human an any time.  People get used to how good it is and then complain about it.  Go back to 1850 for a week.  If you could do that you'd be banging on the time machine door begging to come back to 2020 within minutes of landing. 

That's not to say that there isn't plenty of room for improvement.  There is plenty of room for that.  As we have seen those at the top of our civilizations pecking order have no compunction about looting the treasury and handing us the bill.  They continue to do that.  That's what needs to be stopped.  I just don't think that rioting and looting is the answer.  Whatever the answer is, we need the law.  Without the law you have anarchy.  That's just survival of the fittest for every man, woman, and child.  That certainly is not more equitable for anyone. 

The way I see it is that there is no way around hierarchy and pecking orders.  There will never be a way around those things.  From a group of three individuals all the way up to 8 or 10 billion.  It scales at any scale.  At least with capitalism and democracy you can get a fair shake.  It might not be fair overall, but it's pretty fair down here in the working class.  Fair is only a concept that exists in our minds.  You can't find fair in nature. 

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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2020, 06:37:45 AM »


So, you have a caste in the society that is perpetually Underclass, and that is where the crime stems from.  How do you rectify this problem?  You must develop a more equitable economic system.  Without that, the violence will continue and it will escalate.  You can carve that into stone tablets.  That is all she wrote.

RE

Yep, that's the goal of socialism.  We see how that went for the Soviet Union.  It doesn't work, at least not as they did it.  //  The thing with universal healthcare is that it's really just more fair for the working class.  The poor already get free healthcare.  I know because I was on medicaid for a couple of years.  Never had to pay a dime.  I went to work and now I pay $600 a month plus a 2k per family member deductible, plus copays and percentages depending on what is needed.  When I was on medicaid we just went to the doctor or the hospital, got treated, and got no bill.  But that's another story. 

What I'm getting at is that socialism was tried and failed.  It just doesn't work. 

Seems like a non-sequitur to me. As you have already experienced first hand, socialism works just fine when we actually try it. "Socialism" is an epithet used by fascists and other servants of capital to keep these blessings from being extended to the rest of the working class because there is altogether too much money being sieved off from workers to upset their highly profitable applecart. THEY are doing very well here, thankewverymuch. You're not? Must suck to be you...

The way I see it is that there is no way around hierarchy and pecking orders.  There will never be a way around those things.  From a group of three individuals all the way up to 8 or 10 billion.  It scales at any scale.  At least with capitalism and democracy you can get a fair shake.  It might not be fair overall, but it's pretty fair down here in the working class.  Fair is only a concept that exists in our minds.  You can't find fair in nature.

Perhaps. But you can find fair-er.
I had the benefit of growing up the the postwar era. Back when we could afford public goods because workers got paid a living wage and the rich paid taxes.
Sure, there are hierarchies, and will always be. They don't have to be hierarchies of rape and ruin.
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2020, 06:53:44 AM »


Seems like a non-sequitur to me. As you have already experienced first hand, socialism works just fine when we actually try it. "Socialism" is an epithet used by fascists and other servants of capital to keep these blessings from being extended to the rest of the working class because there is altogether too much money being sieved off from workers to upset their highly profitable applecart. THEY are doing very well here, thankewverymuch. You're not? Must suck to be you...

Isn't that the same thing we say to the poor saps making our screens and picking our fruit?  Everyone still buys screens and vegetables.



The way I see it is that there is no way around hierarchy and pecking orders.  There will never be a way around those things.  From a group of three individuals all the way up to 8 or 10 billion.  It scales at any scale.  At least with capitalism and democracy you can get a fair shake.  It might not be fair overall, but it's pretty fair down here in the working class.  Fair is only a concept that exists in our minds.  You can't find fair in nature.

Quote
Perhaps. But you can find fair-er.
I had the benefit of growing up the the postwar era. Back when we could afford public goods because workers got paid a living wage and the rich paid taxes.
Sure, there are hierarchies, and will always be. They don't have to be hierarchies of rape and ruin.

I agree with you.  They don't have to be hierarchies of rape and ruin.  What's to be done about it?  People can protest all they want to.  All that will do is get the government to break some windows and set some fires on the peoples behalf.  Then they will roll out the tanks and business will return to normal again.  Resistance is futile.  At least peaceful resistance is. 

An actual resistance would probably end up being futile as well.  Not to mention that until it was over it would just be horrible for all parties concerned.  Violence only works when you win.  The people can't win against the government.  They represent a professional violence dispensing machine. 

The only thing that could possibly work is change from inside the system.  As we have seen, they have that locked up as well.  It really is the law of the jungle.  Only in this case the jungle is a human ecology.  In the end it's the nature of man that makes hierarchies ones of rape and ruin.  That's always been the case.  Always will be the case.  That's what the myth of King Arthur is all about.  A just king that ushers in an age of peace and prosperity where all is fair.  It's a myth for a reason. 

Reality on the other hand.  There is no hope to be found there.  But as I have pointed out already, life is much better for the poorest poor now than it ever was for the wealthiest kings of yore. 

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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2020, 07:33:04 AM »
Quote from: LD
In the end it's the nature of man that makes hierarchies ones of rape and ruin.  That's always been the case.  Always will be the case.  That's what the myth of King Arthur is all about.  A just king that ushers in an age of peace and prosperity where all is fair.  It's a myth for a reason. 

In many cultures this is true-- Anglo-Saxon, Mongol, African-- blood and conquest. Not always with indigenous and native cultures. There were warlike Apaches and bloodthirsty Maya, and there was the potlatch economy of the Inuit.

According to native peoples, we are all afflicted with the "wetiko" illness, the “Virus” of selfishness according to Native Americans. According to Paul Levy, who wrote a book on the subject, Wetiko is a word that Native Americans use to designate an evil person who never worries about the well-being of others.

When indigenous communities came into contact with the first Europeans, the Native Americans said they were infected by Wetiko. It was the Cree in Canada who used this concept for the first time. It meant the desire to use the force of nature and its resources as their own. To consume. The concept echoes Carl Jung's concept of Shadow. Shadow is the archetype of the unconscious. Thus jealousy, greed, thirst for power, and selfishness are actually products of our collective unconscious. Dissociated from the conscience, we get carried away by despicable acts.

Ultimately, The legacy Levy wished to leave with his book is not at all negative. Every virus seeks a host to invade and feed off of. However, each of us can put up defensive barriers. We can strengthen our psychological “immune system” to keep from being infected by selfishness. that requires self awareness and will. We all know this.

We heal from the “virus” of selfishness by working on inner struggles, growing as a person, and dealing with the Shadow. This is not an event, but a process. Chop wood, carry water...
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 08:55:38 AM by Surly1 »
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: What Does The Narrative Leave Out?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2020, 08:44:56 AM »
Quote from: LD
In the end it's the nature of man that makes hierarchies ones of rape and ruin.  That's always been the case.  Always will be the case.  That's what the myth of King Arthur is all about.  A just king that ushers in an age of peace and prosperity where all is fair.  It's a myth for a reason. 

In many cultures this is true-- Anglo-Saxon, Mongol, African-- blood and conquest. Not always with indigenous and native cultures. There were warlike Apaches and bloodthirsty Maya, and there was the potlatch economy of the Inuit.

According to native peoples, we are all afflicted with the "wetiko" illness, the “Virus” of selfishness according to Native Americans. According to Paul Levy, who wrote a book on the subject, Wetiko is a word that Native Americans use to designate an evil person who never worries about the well-being of others.

When indigenous communities came into contact with the first Europeans, the Native Americans said they were infected by Wetiko. It was the Cree in Canada who used this concept for the first time. It meant the desire to use the force of nature and its resources as their own. To consume. The concept echoes Carl Jung's concept of Shadow. Shadow is the archetype of the unconscious. Thus jealousy, greed, thirst for power, and selfishness are actually products of our collective unconscious. Dissociated from the conscience, we get carried away by despicable acts.

Ultimately, The legacy Levy wished to leave with his book is not at all negative. Every virus seeks a host to invade and feed off of. However, each of us can put up defensive barriers. We can strengthen our psychological “immune system” to keep from being infected by selfishness. that requires self awareness and will. We all know this.

We heal from the “virus” of selfishness by working on inner struggles, growing as a person, and dealing with the Shadow. This is not an event, but a process. Chop wood, carry water...

For sure, I agree with all of that...almost.

A collective is made up of individuals.  I am not a Wetiko person.  I care very much about my fellow Sapiens.  All of them regardless of race or any other distinguishing factor.  However it's natural to care more about your nuclear family than any other "family" you may be a part of.  I gave societal change a pretty good go.  I dedicated an important part of my life to permaculture and trying to make a difference.  I even got into political action for a couple of years.  All of my efforts seemed to fall on deaf ears. 

I am not a Wetiko person.  Most of us are not Wetiko people.   There are plenty of those people in Murika.  There is no doubt about that, but I'm not convinced they are the majority.  Probably close to it. 

I find myself supporting BAU in order to provide for my family.  On the surface there is nothing wrong or selfish about that.  Even beneath the surface there isn't anything wrong.  You have to go pretty deep to find the problem.  At that level it's beyond the individual scope.  If the Wetiko is real it abides in the whimsical and indifferent use of natural resources.  They are there for us to use, and they don't mind being used, but they must be used sustainably.  Bamboo is the perfect plant for this role.  The Chinese have long known that, although the Westernizing influence has been changing that.  It's starting to take on an air of poverty.  A poor person can take bamboo and fulfill virtually any human need with it.  The Chinese have done this for thousands of years.  You don't need money when you have bamboo...but I digress. 

Ultimately the main problem is the commodification of everything, including people.  The system does that.  The system designed by man does that.  My feeling is that there is nothing that's going to change it.  Well, there is something, and that's collapse.  It's possible that collapse is hundreds of years into the future.  I don't think it will be climate that does it.  I think it will be resource depletion in parallel with over shooting our carrying capacity by sheer numbers of human meat sacks.  I think the main problems, viewed through that lens, make perfect sense. 
there are simply too many of us to be supported by our current way of doing things.  I don't think you support 9 billion meat sacks and it arises in an equitable manner.  It's already not equitable.  It hasn't been for a long time.  Maybe never has been.  Probably never has been.  It's not going to get better for the masses.  It's going to get worse. 

I just turned 40 this year.  It's natural to want to be settled in to your position at my age.  I tried to help change things.  I failed.  It was very much like trying to swim up river.  You can try all you want to, but without a boat and a motor you ain't going up river.  You have to buy the motor with money.  That's where the trap shuts closed. 

The Natives didn't use money.  They were animist.  You can't have civilization without money.  You might as well call the Wetiko by that name.  It seems to me that Wetiko and money are synonymous.  Wetiko, money, civilization, and finally developed nation states.  The Wetiko is in the money. 
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 08:56:02 AM by Surly1 »

 

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