AuthorTopic: Give A Fuck  (Read 445 times)

Offline Cam

  • Bussing Staff
  • **
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2020, 06:54:05 PM »
I'm knee deep in the fundamentals of electricity right now and it's so neat thinking that all around me electrical forces are at work.

Don't forget to study Maxwell's Equations.  Did you take Calculus?

RE

Nope I actually didn't take many science or heavy math courses past grade 10 and I regret it. I got a great average but it was because I was taking music, outdoor ed, and some other not so challenging stuff. I'm catching up now though slowly but surely. The only Maxwells I know of is the coffee brand. Looks like I have some learning to do.

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41369
    • View Profile
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2020, 07:20:58 PM »
I'm knee deep in the fundamentals of electricity right now and it's so neat thinking that all around me electrical forces are at work.

Don't forget to study Maxwell's Equations.  Did you take Calculus?

RE

Nope I actually didn't take many science or heavy math courses past grade 10 and I regret it. I got a great average but it was because I was taking music, outdoor ed, and some other not so challenging stuff. I'm catching up now though slowly but surely. The only Maxwells I know of is the coffee brand. Looks like I have some learning to do.

Start by Googling James Clerk Maxwell.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Eddie

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 19389
    • View Profile
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2020, 08:01:34 PM »
Maxwell's Equations are interesting egghead math for da bright kids....mental masturbation, not anything useful for anyone wanting to harness alternative power for a practical use. I will never learn them, but I never needed to....to build a 12 volt solar installation.

One year I was going to get my HAM radio license.....not a bad idea, but I never got around to taking the test....but I did study the prep course :exp-angry:. I would hazard that if you can memorize the few simple things that covers...then you will be equipped for understanding most simple electrical and electronic components and devices.

Lots of good videos on wind and solar now. In parts of Canada hydropower is a great alternative.

Batteries in parallel. Batteries in series. People get that wrong a lot. Ask NF.

What is a charge controller? What is an inverter? What does a voltmeter tell you about your batteries? What are the rules for sizing wire. What are the advantages and disadvantages of various types of batteries.

There is a guy on YT that shows how to build basic batteries....worth watching. If he comes up in my feed again, I'll drop a link..

Biggest issue is expense.....all the cool shit costs money. Start small. Cheap Chinese crap is good enough to play around with....just don't expect it to last.



What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41369
    • View Profile
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2020, 08:17:36 PM »
Maxwell's Equations are interesting egghead math for da bright kids....mental masturbation, not anything useful for anyone wanting to harness alternative power for a practical use. I will never learn them, but I never needed to....to build a 12 volt solar installation.

Indeed you do not.  But it's quite a bit more than "mental masturbation" for bright kids.  It teaches you how to THINK logically, in much the same way Chess does.

Will you Play a Game?  lol.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41369
    • View Profile
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2020, 08:21:13 PM »
Maxwell's Equations are interesting egghead math for da bright kids....mental masturbation, not anything useful for anyone wanting to harness alternative power for a practical use. I will never learn them, but I never needed to....to build a 12 volt solar installation.

Indeed you do not.  But it's quite a bit more than "mental masturbation" for bright kids.  It teaches you how to THINK logically, in much the same way Chess does.

Will you Play a Game?  lol.

RE


Parenthetically, I'm quite sure Irv Mills knows little to nothing about Maxwell's Equations.  However, he knows a whole lot more than me about how an electrical grid is run for an entire province of the Great White North.  It is in the sharing of what we know thaty we continue to learn.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline K-Dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3838
    • View Profile
    • K-Dog
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2020, 09:29:53 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/jkUsIMElwNA" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/jkUsIMElwNA</a>
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline K-Dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3838
    • View Profile
    • K-Dog
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2020, 09:52:03 PM »
Maxwell's Equations are interesting egghead math for da bright kids....mental masturbation, not anything useful for anyone wanting to harness alternative power for a practical use. I will never learn them, but I never needed to....to build a 12 volt solar installation.

Indeed you do not.  But it's quite a bit more than "mental masturbation" for bright kids.  It teaches you how to THINK logically, in much the same way Chess does.

Will you Play a Game?  lol.

RE


Parenthetically, I'm quite sure Irv Mills knows little to nothing about Maxwell's Equations.  However, he knows a whole lot more than me about how an electrical grid is run for an entire province of the Great White North.  It is in the sharing of what we know thaty we continue to learn.

RE

The vast majority of engineers never need to use them and just need to understand them in concept.  The mechanics of doing the math has to be shown to get a degree so if you are ever in a position to use them you can come up to speed and be no fool.  The place where they are used is in the design of electromagnetic equipment which few engineers do.  Most use stuff that already exists.  I have a line on a job where I would actually get familiar with them again.  I am setting up an interview through email now.  The company does electromagnetic transmission of power and I would be using the equations.  I have used them to figure out the best way to transmit a magnetic field through a slotted steel pipe in the past and there are high end modeling tools for evaluating a physical CAD design.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 10:00:24 PM by K-Dog »
Under ideal conditions of temperature and pressure the organism will grow without limit.

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41369
    • View Profile
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2020, 10:10:16 PM »
Maxwell's Equations are interesting egghead math for da bright kids....mental masturbation, not anything useful for anyone wanting to harness alternative power for a practical use. I will never learn them, but I never needed to....to build a 12 volt solar installation.

Indeed you do not.  But it's quite a bit more than "mental masturbation" for bright kids.  It teaches you how to THINK logically, in much the same way Chess does.

Will you Play a Game?  lol.

RE


Parenthetically, I'm quite sure Irv Mills knows little to nothing about Maxwell's Equations.  However, he knows a whole lot more than me about how an electrical grid is run for an entire province of the Great White North.  It is in the sharing of what we know thaty we continue to learn.

RE

The vast majority of engineers never need to use them and just need to understand them in concept.  The mechanics of doing the math has to be shown to get a degree so if you are ever in a position to use them you can come up to speed and be no fool.  The place where they are used is in the design of electromagnetic equipment which few engineers do.  Most use stuff that already exists.  I have a line on a job where I would actually get familiar with them again.  I am setting up an interview through email now.  The company does electromagnetic transmission of power and I would be using the equations.  I have used them to figure out the best way to transmit a magnetic field through a slotted steel pipe in the past and there are high end modeling tools for evaluating a physical CAD design.



It's one of those things that is fairly abstract and not a lot of people really understand.  But, if you really want to know how electricity WORKS, you need to understand this stuff.

No, you do not need it to wire up a 12V Circuit.  But ya know, without James Clerk Maxwell, a "mental masturbating bright kid" from the 19th Century, you would not have those circuits to wire.

You wanna get REAALLLY abstract, try General Relativity or Quantum Mechanics.  That shit twists your brain into knots.  Riemann Geometry too.

RE
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 10:17:10 PM by RE »
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Nearingsfault

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 1352
    • View Profile
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2020, 06:00:40 AM »
I'm knee deep in the fundamentals of electricity right now and it's so neat thinking that all around me electrical forces are at work.

Don't forget to study Maxwell's Equations.  Did you take Calculus?

RE

Nope I actually didn't take many science or heavy math courses past grade 10 and I regret it. I got a great average but it was because I was taking music, outdoor ed, and some other not so challenging stuff. I'm catching up now though slowly but surely. The only Maxwells I know of is the coffee brand. Looks like I have some learning to do.
Maxwells equations are interesting but at this level V=IR and P=VI is about all you will need to know. Some higher math is good for capacitance and wave forms for ac  but once you memorize it you'll never use it as it's usually pulled from tables or provided to you or measured with meters. Voltage drop is a real calculation but I end up using online tools for it. I struggle with higher math. I could do it in the day but mostly through rote memorization not through understanding. Same with physics and chem. Are you going to do a pre apprenticeship cam?
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline luciddreams

  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 3497
    • View Profile
    • Epiphany Now
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2020, 07:16:01 AM »
At the moment, I occupy a place which is neither hopeful nor hopeless -- which is both (and equally) hopeless and hopeful. A no-man's land. A place where you arrive when all that you've served diligently for a whole lifetime (I'm old enough to say that now), has amounted mostly to nothing.  I'm neither dead nor alive. I'm neither joyful nor depressed. I'm in a place which is no place, which no longer has meaning and yet is alive with meaning. I live with purpose in a void.  Despair and resignation are not for me, and yet I'm at the end of the plank which I had to walk. And I'm looking down at the sharks below.

Maybe the sharks know something, but standing here I'm neither able to believe in the purpose I have devoted myself to nor to deny and ignore it.

Nice to have you back JRM.

I feel your pain dude.  I went through the same phase.  Interestingly it corresponded with my year or so long walkabout from the Diner.  Collpase can be a mental bitch for sure.  Carol Baker (I think is here name) marketed herself as a collapse shrink.  I read her shit for a while ten years ago. 

My wife and children keep me going.  That's a great benefit with a nuclear family.  As a man it provides me with purpose.  Regardless of how fucking hopeless society seems I have a real purpose.  I am a provider.  It brings me joy to be able to provide well for my family.  I enjoy dropping $600 at costco to stock the pantry/fridge/deep freezer.  I enjoy providing a life where my wife does not have to work so that she can be there for my children everyday.  Especially during a pandemic.  I just point this shit out because it's a difference between me and you.  I suppose it's what got me out of the funk. 

My problem with you in the past has always been that I felt you were out of touch with the reality of what is likely to occur with the people in our society.  I felt you were too hopeful.  Not realistic.  I was that way to.  Permaculture only works as a game changer if you have actual community.  Community is anathema in the fsoa. 

Anyways, I'm not trying to be backhanded here with you.  Just being honest.  I don't pull punches. 

For what it's worth, I'm glad you are back.  Stick around.  :emthup:

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 41369
    • View Profile
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2020, 07:22:39 AM »
My wife and children keep me going.  That's a great benefit with a nuclear family.  As a man it provides me with purpose.  Regardless of how fucking hopeless society seems I have a real purpose.  I am a provider.  It brings me joy to be able to provide well for my family.  I enjoy dropping $600 at costco to stock the pantry/fridge/deep freezer.  I enjoy providing a life where my wife does not have to work so that she can be there for my children everyday.  Especially during a pandemic.  I just point this shit out because it's a difference between me and you.  I suppose it's what got me out of the funk. 

Whatever works for you.

I don't have a wife and family, and I am not in a funk.  It's not a necessary condition for staying out of a funk.

As I said, I treat it in Zen Fashion.  Zen and the Art of Collapse Maintenance.   :icon_sunny:

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Nearingsfault

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 1352
    • View Profile
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2020, 08:00:53 AM »
At the moment, I occupy a place which is neither hopeful nor hopeless -- which is both (and equally) hopeless and hopeful. A no-man's land. A place where you arrive when all that you've served diligently for a whole lifetime (I'm old enough to say that now), has amounted mostly to nothing.  I'm neither dead nor alive. I'm neither joyful nor depressed. I'm in a place which is no place, which no longer has meaning and yet is alive with meaning. I live with purpose in a void.  Despair and resignation are not for me, and yet I'm at the end of the plank which I had to walk. And I'm looking down at the sharks below.

Maybe the sharks know something, but standing here I'm neither able to believe in the purpose I have devoted myself to nor to deny and ignore it.

Nice to have you back JRM.

I feel your pain dude.  I went through the same phase.  Interestingly it corresponded with my year or so long walkabout from the Diner.  Collpase can be a mental bitch for sure.  Carol Baker (I think is here name) marketed herself as a collapse shrink.  I read her shit for a while ten years ago. 

My wife and children keep me going.  That's a great benefit with a nuclear family.  As a man it provides me with purpose.  Regardless of how fucking hopeless society seems I have a real purpose.  I am a provider.  It brings me joy to be able to provide well for my family.  I enjoy dropping $600 at costco to stock the pantry/fridge/deep freezer.  I enjoy providing a life where my wife does not have to work so that she can be there for my children everyday.  Especially during a pandemic.  I just point this shit out because it's a difference between me and you.  I suppose it's what got me out of the funk. 

My problem with you in the past has always been that I felt you were out of touch with the reality of what is likely to occur with the people in our society.  I felt you were too hopeful.  Not realistic.  I was that way to.  Permaculture only works as a game changer if you have actual community.  Community is anathema in the fsoa. 

Anyways, I'm not trying to be backhanded here with you.  Just being honest.  I don't pull punches. 

For what it's worth, I'm glad you are back.  Stick around.  :emthup:
well written LD. I know I draw immense strength from my beasts. I've had some very dark days over the last 4 years but it ebbs and flows...
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline Cam

  • Bussing Staff
  • **
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2020, 02:17:05 PM »
I'm knee deep in the fundamentals of electricity right now and it's so neat thinking that all around me electrical forces are at work.

Don't forget to study Maxwell's Equations.  Did you take Calculus?

RE

Nope I actually didn't take many science or heavy math courses past grade 10 and I regret it. I got a great average but it was because I was taking music, outdoor ed, and some other not so challenging stuff. I'm catching up now though slowly but surely. The only Maxwells I know of is the coffee brand. Looks like I have some learning to do.
Maxwells equations are interesting but at this level V=IR and P=VI is about all you will need to know. Some higher math is good for capacitance and wave forms for ac  but once you memorize it you'll never use it as it's usually pulled from tables or provided to you or measured with meters. Voltage drop is a real calculation but I end up using online tools for it. I struggle with higher math. I could do it in the day but mostly through rote memorization not through understanding. Same with physics and chem. Are you going to do a pre apprenticeship cam?

I'm kind of conflicted about it. My uncle who builds houses for a living asked his electrician who works for him and they both agreed pre-apprenticeship programs weren't worth the time. They recommended applying to businesses and getting started on an apprenticeship immediately. On the other hand, my dad talked to a guy at work who went the pre-apprenticeship route (I think) and he was happy with it. I think he ended up getting in with Ontario Power Generation or Hydro One due to the references he got from his profs. Right now I'm kind of stuck. I think I'm gonna call the ministry of college and universities (something the pre-apprenticeship guy recommended) and get some more input from them. My resume and cover letter are basically set either way.

Offline Nearingsfault

  • Sous Chef
  • ****
  • Posts: 1352
    • View Profile
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2020, 03:02:32 PM »
I'm knee deep in the fundamentals of electricity right now and it's so neat thinking that all around me electrical forces are at work.

Don't forget to study Maxwell's Equations.  Did you take Calculus?

RE

Nope I actually didn't take many science or heavy math courses past grade 10 and I regret it. I got a great average but it was because I was taking music, outdoor ed, and some other not so challenging stuff. I'm catching up now though slowly but surely. The only Maxwells I know of is the coffee brand. Looks like I have some learning to do.
Maxwells equations are interesting but at this level V=IR and P=VI is about all you will need to know. Some higher math is good for capacitance and wave forms for ac  but once you memorize it you'll never use it as it's usually pulled from tables or provided to you or measured with meters. Voltage drop is a real calculation but I end up using online tools for it. I struggle with higher math. I could do it in the day but mostly through rote memorization not through understanding. Same with physics and chem. Are you going to do a pre apprenticeship cam?

I'm kind of conflicted about it. My uncle who builds houses for a living asked his electrician who works for him and they both agreed pre-apprenticeship programs weren't worth the time. They recommended applying to businesses and getting started on an apprenticeship immediately. On the other hand, my dad talked to a guy at work who went the pre-apprenticeship route (I think) and he was happy with it. I think he ended up getting in with Ontario Power Generation or Hydro One due to the references he got from his profs. Right now I'm kind of stuck. I think I'm gonna call the ministry of college and universities (something the pre-apprenticeship guy recommended) and get some more input from them. My resume and cover letter are basically set either way.
my experience has been the pre apprenticeship guys end up with better apprenticeship placements. So apprenticed to a company that does say industrial, high end residential and commercial versus a residential only electrical company and you end up drilling holes in framing for 2 years... it is a hard call. Money now or maybe better options down the road... Let us know how it works out...
Full disclosure I did a pre apprenticeship in BC and it was totally worth it. I landed a great placement right out of school. BC is different than Ontario ; journeymen are mandated and there is a great apprenticeship program. That is carpentry electrical is a little different.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 03:05:05 PM by Nearingsfault »
If its important then try something, fail, disect, learn from it, try again, and again and again until it kills you or you succeed.

Offline Cam

  • Bussing Staff
  • **
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: Give A Fuck
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2020, 03:14:14 PM »
I'm knee deep in the fundamentals of electricity right now and it's so neat thinking that all around me electrical forces are at work.

Don't forget to study Maxwell's Equations.  Did you take Calculus?

RE

Nope I actually didn't take many science or heavy math courses past grade 10 and I regret it. I got a great average but it was because I was taking music, outdoor ed, and some other not so challenging stuff. I'm catching up now though slowly but surely. The only Maxwells I know of is the coffee brand. Looks like I have some learning to do.
Maxwells equations are interesting but at this level V=IR and P=VI is about all you will need to know. Some higher math is good for capacitance and wave forms for ac  but once you memorize it you'll never use it as it's usually pulled from tables or provided to you or measured with meters. Voltage drop is a real calculation but I end up using online tools for it. I struggle with higher math. I could do it in the day but mostly through rote memorization not through understanding. Same with physics and chem. Are you going to do a pre apprenticeship cam?

I'm kind of conflicted about it. My uncle who builds houses for a living asked his electrician who works for him and they both agreed pre-apprenticeship programs weren't worth the time. They recommended applying to businesses and getting started on an apprenticeship immediately. On the other hand, my dad talked to a guy at work who went the pre-apprenticeship route (I think) and he was happy with it. I think he ended up getting in with Ontario Power Generation or Hydro One due to the references he got from his profs. Right now I'm kind of stuck. I think I'm gonna call the ministry of college and universities (something the pre-apprenticeship guy recommended) and get some more input from them. My resume and cover letter are basically set either way.
my experience has been the pre apprenticeship guys end up with better apprenticeship placements. So apprenticed to a company that does say industrial, high end residential and commercial versus a residential only electrical company and you end up drilling holes in framing for 2 years... it is a hard call. Money now or maybe better options down the road... Let us know how it works out...
Full disclosure I did a pre apprenticeship in BC and it was totally worth it. I landed a great placement right out of school. BC is different than Ontario ; journeymen are mandated and there is a great apprenticeship program. That is carpentry electrical is a little different.
Thank you for your input I really appreciate it. I think I might be leaning towards the pre-apprenticeship program with your thoughts now too. I'm just hoping the programs will be running this year. My gut says they will be, just with all sorts of precautions in place.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
3 Replies
1068 Views
Last post January 04, 2013, 09:12:57 AM
by Stucky1
10 Replies
1117 Views
Last post June 29, 2017, 03:48:09 AM
by Surly1
14 Replies
5750 Views
Last post September 22, 2019, 12:49:29 PM
by RE