AuthorTopic: Ships in Horrible Storms  (Read 6804 times)

Offline Eddie

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #105 on: October 27, 2020, 11:22:37 AM »
Cyanide, I think.
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Offline John of Wallan

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #106 on: October 27, 2020, 12:12:42 PM »
Your theory was the major wars of the 20th C were caused by nihilist and rationalist ideology, and that these cause greater atrocity and casualties.

Yes, the ideas here are:

1- Rationalism & Nihilism are the cause of Wars.

2- Wars today are more destructive because they are driven by Rationalism & Nihilism.

The problem is neither of these suppositions is true despite what Nietze might have thought before descending into madness.  The main causes of WW1 & WW2 was to gain control over the thermodynamic supplies of fossil fuels.  Rationalism & Nihilism are not the CAUSE of all this mayhem, they are an effect of it.  Nietze didn't "predict" these outcomes, he just was extrapolating on what was occuring in his own time.  He was to a large extent correct,but that doesn't make his reasoning correct.  WW1 & WW@ were fought over the Energy resource.  18th & 19th century wars were fought over the Food resource.

RE

I will take an each way bet: Ideology of individuals may start and flame conflicts including WW2, who then justify the unjust with their ideologies to others. Hitler sold the war as a way of getting out of unjust reparations after WW1.
Surely some ideologies stop wars?
Rationalism should prevent or stop wars I would think.

JOW

Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #107 on: October 27, 2020, 01:02:42 PM »
Your theory was the major wars of the 20th C were caused by nihilist and rationalist ideology, and that these cause greater atrocity and casualties.

Yes, the ideas here are:

1- Rationalism & Nihilism are the cause of Wars.

2- Wars today are more destructive because they are driven by Rationalism & Nihilism.

The problem is neither of these suppositions is true despite what Nietze might have thought before descending into madness.  The main causes of WW1 & WW2 was to gain control over the thermodynamic supplies of fossil fuels.  Rationalism & Nihilism are not the CAUSE of all this mayhem, they are an effect of it.  Nietze didn't "predict" these outcomes, he just was extrapolating on what was occuring in his own time.  He was to a large extent correct,but that doesn't make his reasoning correct.  WW1 & WW@ were fought over the Energy resource.  18th & 19th century wars were fought over the Food resource.

RE

I will take an each way bet: Ideology of individuals may start and flame conflicts including WW2, who then justify the unjust with their ideologies to others. Hitler sold the war as a way of getting out of unjust reparations after WW1.
Surely some ideologies stop wars?
Rationalism should prevent or stop wars I would think.

JOW

This is why I give so much credit to critics of rationalism like Dostoevsky and Nietzsche. They were much further removed from the worldviews before rationalism became dominant, kind of like we are now. We are so steeped in the momentum of rationalism that it's hard for us to even figure out why it's a bad thing, even after the 20th century world wars and atrocities.

Rationalism (philosophy) - the theory that reason rather than experience is the foundation of certainty in knowledge.

A lot of people in the West subscribe to the above, knowingly or unknowingly, secular or religious. It is baked into the cake of our culture. I have a hard time articulating exactly why the above is so dangerous without referring to brilliant thinkers who came before me. It's probably why we keep going on this merri-go-round of posts about it.

Check out Dostoevsky's Notes from the Underground. To call it brilliant is an under-statement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_from_Underground
Themes and context
"The narration by the Underground Man is laden with ideological allusions and complex conversations regarding the political climate of the period. Using his fiction as a weapon of ideological discourse, Dostoevsky challenges the ideologies of his time, mainly nihilism and rational egoism.[6]

In Part 2, the rant that the Underground Man directs at Liza as they sit in the dark, and her response to it, is an example of such discourse. Liza believes she can survive and rise up through the ranks of her brothel as a means of achieving her dreams of functioning successfully in society. However, as the Underground Man points out in his rant, such dreams are based on a utopian trust of not only the societal systems in place but also humanity's ability to avoid corruption and irrationality in general. The points made in Part 1 about the Underground Man's pleasure in being rude and refusing to seek medical help are his examples of how idealised rationality is inherently flawed for not accounting for the darker and more irrational side of humanity.

The Stone Wall is one of the symbols in the novel and represents all the barriers of the laws of nature that stand against man and his freedom. Put simply, the rule that two plus two equals four angers the Underground Man because he wants the freedom to say two plus two equals five, but that Stone Wall of nature's laws stands in front of him and his free will."


Political climate
"In the 1860s, Russia was beginning to absorb the ideas and culture of Western Europe at an accelerated pace, nurturing an unstable local climate. There was especially a growth in revolutionary activity accompanying a general restructuring of tsardom where liberal reforms, enacted by an unwieldy autocracy, only induced a greater sense of tension in both politics and civil society. Many of Russia's intellectuals were engaged in a debate with the Westernizers on one hand, and the Slavophiles on the other, concerned with favoring importation of Western reforms or promoting pan-Slavic traditions to address Russia's particular social reality. Although Tsar Alexander emancipated the serfs in 1861, Russia was still very much a post-medieval, traditional peasant society.

When Notes From Underground was written, there was an intellectual ferment on discussions regarding religious philosophy and various 'enlightened' utopian ideas.[7] The work is a challenge to, and a method of understanding, the larger implications of the ideological drive toward a utopian society.[1] Utopianism largely pertains to a society's collective dream, but what troubles the Underground Man is this very idea of collectivism. The point the Underground Man makes is that individuals will ultimately always rebel against a collectively imposed idea of paradise; a utopian image such as The Crystal Palace will always fail because of the underlying irrationality of humanity."


Of course the big difference between Dostoevsky, Nietzsche and us today, is that WE have Dostevsky, Nietzsche AND the atrocities of rationalist ideology in the 20th century to look back at. So there is very little excuse for sticking to this rationalist mode of thinking, no matter how much the culture continues to reinforce it.

Offline RE

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #108 on: October 27, 2020, 01:17:29 PM »
Of course the big difference between Dostoevsky, Nietzsche and us today, is that WE have Dostevsky, Nietzsche AND the atrocities of rationalist ideology in the 20th century to look back at. So there is very little excuse for sticking to this rationalist mode of thinking, no matter how much the culture continues to reinforce it.

What do you propose to replace it?  Irrationalist Thinking?  How do you propose we change the thinking methodology of 7.8 B Homo Saps currently walking the earth?  I doubt this could be legislated into existence.

RE
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Offline RE

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #109 on: October 27, 2020, 01:19:45 PM »
Cyanide, I think.

Sadly this is not available OTC at 3 Bears.  :(

RE
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Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #110 on: October 27, 2020, 01:28:10 PM »
I did not say WW2 was a "manifestation of" material hardship. I said about 4 times that there are numerous examples that simple territorial disputes, hardship and need for resources were responsible for the start of WW1 , the war in Pacific, and our own global MIC.

 The charred remains purported to be Hitler were tested in the USSR and found to be a woman. There are credible sightings in Argentina where many Nazis escaped. Not being taken alive, either to make it a quick end, or avoid a fate worse than death is cfs and does not require any ideology anyway. If the generals wanted to surrender and plenty of Germans surrendered on the field, that should, by your reasoning, also explain a converse lack of rationalist philosophy. 

You need to quote Shakespeare etc saying that the Age of reason and enlightenment disallow or dispell the Church, belief in God, Belief in afterlife, belief in ghosts or demons. The evidence of your eyes today suggests rationalism never made a dent in man's spiritual expression. You simply have the choice to be openly atheist instead of tried for heresy now.

If you say speaking of "demons" is a symbolic representation of "demons", then symbolic must mean literal.

The 21st C practice of talking about addictions as demons, does not involve casting out by Jesus or exorcists. Casting out and exorcism are involved in the removal of a seperate, sentient entity.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 01:36:32 PM by Phil Rumpole »
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Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #111 on: October 27, 2020, 02:54:55 PM »
Of course the big difference between Dostoevsky, Nietzsche and us today, is that WE have Dostevsky, Nietzsche AND the atrocities of rationalist ideology in the 20th century to look back at. So there is very little excuse for sticking to this rationalist mode of thinking, no matter how much the culture continues to reinforce it.

What do you propose to replace it?  Irrationalist Thinking?  How do you propose we change the thinking methodology of 7.8 B Homo Saps currently walking the earth?  I doubt this could be legislated into existence.

RE

Well humans have evolved for hundreds of thousands of years, and rationalism has been around for 500, so I am ultimately optimistic. The earlier states of consciousness are not gone, in fact the irrational collective unconscious is omnipresent and easily accessible. Our responsibility now is to rediscover this within ourselves and integrate them with our rational intellect.

As much as I praise Dostoevsky. Nietzsche and other similar thinkers, Carl Jung was in a league of his own. He managed to figure all this stuff out AND provide a roadmap towards the integral development of soul, which he called "individuation". The problem is he wrote so much stuff, covering so many topics and in no particular order, some of his earlier writings were only published after his death.

I find his most accessible writing to be Modern Man in Search of a Soul. It's also relatively short at 9 chapters. But if you want to be scared out of your skull for Halloween, then take a swing at Aion: Phenomenology of the Self.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 02:58:32 PM by Ashvin »

Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #112 on: October 27, 2020, 03:28:21 PM »
I did not say WW2 was a "manifestation of" material hardship. I said about 4 times that there are numerous examples that simple territorial disputes, hardship and need for resources were responsible for the start of WW1 , the war in Pacific, and our own global MIC.

What specifically about WWI do you feel is clearly attributable to simple territorial disputes?

 
Quote
The charred remains purported to be Hitler were tested in the USSR and found to be a woman. There are credible sightings in Argentina where many Nazis escaped.

. Not being taken alive, either to make it a quick end, or avoid a fate worse than death is cfs and does not require any ideology anyway. If the generals wanted to surrender and plenty of Germans surrendered on the field, that should, by your reasoning, also explain a converse lack of rationalist philosophy. 

OK, well, the burden ia certainly on you to back up that craziness.

You conviently ignored the part of diverting resources from the war effort to the extermination camps. What rational explanation do you have for that? Maybe the camps were actually spaceships that he used to escape to Saturn where he and his kids still live today?

Quote
You need to quote Shakespeare etc saying that the Age of reason and enlightenment disallow or dispell the Church, belief in God, Belief in afterlife, belief in ghosts or demons. The evidence of your eyes today suggests rationalism never made a dent in man's spiritual expression. You simply have the choice to be openly atheist instead of tried for heresy now.

This is ridiculous and you know it. I dont think you even believe half the things you say here, just coming up with absurd reasons to "gain your point" as it were.

Quote
If you say speaking of "demons" is a symbolic representation of "demons", then symbolic must mean literal.

The 21st C practice of talking about addictions as demons, does not involve casting out by Jesus or exorcists. Casting out and exorcism are involved in the removal of a seperate, sentient entity.

I never said that. Its a symbolic representation of confronting inner psychological complexes which possess your ego. If you find the symbolic interpretations unimaginable, then you are a living example of rationalist ideology at work, even in so called believers.

Offline RE

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #113 on: October 27, 2020, 04:14:24 PM »
Well humans have evolved for hundreds of thousands of years, and rationalism has been around for 500, so I am ultimately optimistic. The earlier states of consciousness are not gone, in fact the irrational collective unconscious is omnipresent and easily accessible. Our responsibility now is to rediscover this within ourselves and integrate them with our rational intellect.

Although humans have been evolving for Millions of years,  it's only since the transition from Homo Neanderthalensis we can consider ourselves "sentient" and so further along on the trail to "sapience", so you're talking around 60K-80K  years ago.  Written material, Artwork etc only maybe 40K years.

So we haven't been around al that long,maybe 50K years where you could call us "human' or "rationalists".  For only the last !0K do we have any written history at all, which is almost impossible to verify.  I do not believe rejecting Rationalism will make that big a difference to the future of humanity.  I also don't see a viable substitute.   Many will die and whatever is left of this species will live a much simpler life.  Nietze will not even be remembered in 1000 years.

RE
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Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #114 on: October 27, 2020, 05:43:12 PM »
"This is ridiculous and you know it. I dont think you even believe half the things you say here, just coming up with absurd reasons to "gain your point" as it were."

Either that, or this applies to yourself. We determine which it is by virtue of my answering every question put to me, not picking and choosing diminishing last lines of defence.

Bosnia / Herzegovina were disputed by Serbia and Austria-Hungary. All the alliances were in force because each country was alone vulnerable to attack due to millenia of invasions and fueds. Napoleon had conquered Europe as far as moscow in living memory at the time. Everyone was afraid of a repeat, hence the alliances and arms race. Nothing new here and a continuation of a pattern dating to 1066, never mind Vikings.

You don't get to denounce rationality ad infinitum and then argue for absurdity/craziness/ridiculous as a reason to reject anything, least of all while trying to fit reality to the ravings of a melancholy madman. Insisting on correlation as causation despite better explanations and numerous exceptions to the rule in your theory, makes it a superstition and another example of rationality being tenuous and optional for the vast majority in any century.

How many divisions of troops were diverted to the camps where gold and other valuables were stolen and spent on the war effort, while the inmates were also forced to work for the war effort? Even without the cost/benefit equation there, nobody is saying Hitler did not have a hateful ideology. If he had the objective of winning the war and exterminating the Jews, of course he would step up efforts to accomplish the second when it was clear the first was out of reach. He also diverted resources in late 1944 with the allies closing in, to sending an expedition to the Indus valley in search of original Aryans to re-seed the master race. You can view all this as the same pattern of behaviour he exhibited while in jail for an attempted coup. He didn't think his hopes were dashed, but wrote mein Kampf detailing what he would do when he came to power.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 05:50:34 PM by Phil Rumpole »
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Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #115 on: October 27, 2020, 06:39:39 PM »
Well humans have evolved for hundreds of thousands of years, and rationalism has been around for 500, so I am ultimately optimistic. The earlier states of consciousness are not gone, in fact the irrational collective unconscious is omnipresent and easily accessible. Our responsibility now is to rediscover this within ourselves and integrate them with our rational intellect.

Although humans have been evolving for Millions of years,  it's only since the transition from Homo Neanderthalensis we can consider ourselves "sentient" and so further along on the trail to "sapience", so you're talking around 60K-80K  years ago.  Written material, Artwork etc only maybe 40K years.

So we haven't been around al that long,maybe 50K years where you could call us "human' or "rationalists".  For only the last !0K do we have any written history at all, which is almost impossible to verify.  I do not believe rejecting Rationalism will make that big a difference to the future of humanity.  I also don't see a viable substitute.   Many will die and whatever is left of this species will live a much simpler life.  Nietze will not even be remembered in 1000 years.

RE

You are mixing up rational thinking (which hasn't been around that long, maybe 1500 BCE) with "rationalism" (1500 AD). We could just call it "utopianism" to make it more clear what we are referring to. We don't need to replace it with anything, it will evolve out humanity of its own accord. Rationalist systems always fail miserably because they deny the true underlying reality. We just need to be conscious of its allure and its dangers in the meantime, and do what we can to transform ourselves at an individual level. We need to remember that we do still have a "soul".

Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #116 on: October 27, 2020, 06:55:14 PM »
"This is ridiculous and you know it. I dont think you even believe half the things you say here, just coming up with absurd reasons to "gain your point" as it were."

Either that, or this applies to yourself. We determine which it is by virtue of my answering every question put to me, not picking and choosing diminishing last lines of defence.

You are not doing that at all. When I bring up WW2, Hitler or Stalin, you start talking about WWI, the "war in the Pacific" and the Military Industrial Complex (yeah, that last one is right on topic...).

Quote
Bosnia / Herzegovina were disputed by Serbia and Austria-Hungary. All the alliances were in force because each country was alone vulnerable to attack due to millenia of invasions and fueds. Napoleon had conquered Europe as far as moscow in living memory at the time. Everyone was afraid of a repeat, hence the alliances and arms race. Nothing new here and a continuation of a pattern dating to 1066, never mind Vikings.

So a bunch of nations who were creating alliances to prevent all out war on the continent ended up going to all out war on the continent because the alliances kicked in after some archduke was assassinated? Yeah, sounds exactly like rationalist ideology to me.

Quote
How many divisions of troops were diverted to the camps where gold and other valuables were stolen and spent on the war effort, while the inmates were also forced to work for the war effort? Even without the cost/benefit equation there, nobody is saying Hitler did not have a hateful ideology. If he had the objective of winning the war and exterminating the Jews, of course he would step up efforts to accomplish the second when it was clear the first was out of reach. He also diverted resources in late 1944 with the allies closing in, to sending an expedition to the Indus valley in search of original Aryans to re-seed the master race. You can view all this as the same pattern of behaviour he exhibited while in jail for an attempted coup. He didn't think his hopes were dashed, but wrote mein Kampf detailing what he would do when he came to power.

Why did he want to exterminate the Jews if not to win the war and create a better world for Aryans to live in? Instead of going through all of these endless rationalizations, why not just admit that he set out the goal to either create Utopia or, even more likely, to destroy anything and everything. When you put your faith in Utopia, and it doesn't work out, as you know it won't work out, at least unconsciously, then the only hope left is to cease being, and take as many people with you, as a fuck you to Being itself.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 06:56:47 PM by Ashvin »

Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #117 on: October 27, 2020, 09:55:44 PM »
"This is ridiculous and you know it. I dont think you even believe half the things you say here, just coming up with absurd reasons to "gain your point" as it were."

Either that, or this applies to yourself. We determine which it is by virtue of my answering every question put to me, not picking and choosing diminishing last lines of defence.

You are not doing that at all. When I bring up WW2, Hitler or Stalin, you start talking about WWI, the "war in the Pacific" and the Military Industrial Complex (yeah, that last one is right on topic...).

Quote
Bosnia / Herzegovina were disputed by Serbia and Austria-Hungary. All the alliances were in force because each country was alone vulnerable to attack due to millenia of invasions and fueds. Napoleon had conquered Europe as far as moscow in living memory at the time. Everyone was afraid of a repeat, hence the alliances and arms race. Nothing new here and a continuation of a pattern dating to 1066, never mind Vikings.

So a bunch of nations who were creating alliances to prevent all out war on the continent ended up going to all out war on the continent because the alliances kicked in after some archduke was assassinated? Yeah, sounds exactly like rationalist ideology to me.

Quote
How many divisions of troops were diverted to the camps where gold and other valuables were stolen and spent on the war effort, while the inmates were also forced to work for the war effort? Even without the cost/benefit equation there, nobody is saying Hitler did not have a hateful ideology. If he had the objective of winning the war and exterminating the Jews, of course he would step up efforts to accomplish the second when it was clear the first was out of reach. He also diverted resources in late 1944 with the allies closing in, to sending an expedition to the Indus valley in search of original Aryans to re-seed the master race. You can view all this as the same pattern of behaviour he exhibited while in jail for an attempted coup. He didn't think his hopes were dashed, but wrote mein Kampf detailing what he would do when he came to power.

Why did he want to exterminate the Jews if not to win the war and create a better world for Aryans to live in? Instead of going through all of these endless rationalizations, why not just admit that he set out the goal to either create Utopia or, even more likely, to destroy anything and everything. When you put your faith in Utopia, and it doesn't work out, as you know it won't work out, at least unconsciously, then the only hope left is to cease being, and take as many people with you, as a fuck you to Being itself.

You chose to go to WW1 asking what territorial dispute, not I. I include all of the 20th C large scale conflict. I know the Pacific theatre of WW2 did not involve communists or socialists, but still happened between a monarchy and democracy. Fat man and little boy on Hiroshima and nagasaki, carpet bombing Korea and Vietnam and the mountain leveling MOAB trump dropped on day 1 in office, fit Nietzsches visions. Nothing does better than the 20-21st C trillion dollar budget, 800 base, full spectrum dominance, end of history, MIC.

Killing jews could not win the war unless an allied soldier also died for every one starved, worked, or gassed to death.

I suppose MAGA is promising, if not creating utopia, no different to  Ceasar keeping up the bread, circuses and orgies. Nihilism and Utopianism don't mix well. Concepts of Autarky and Lebenstraum for the Reich are as old as the concepts of tribe/race/country, territory and resource acquisition.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 10:03:57 PM by Phil Rumpole »
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Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #118 on: October 28, 2020, 05:01:18 AM »
"This is ridiculous and you know it. I dont think you even believe half the things you say here, just coming up with absurd reasons to "gain your point" as it were."

Either that, or this applies to yourself. We determine which it is by virtue of my answering every question put to me, not picking and choosing diminishing last lines of defence.

You are not doing that at all. When I bring up WW2, Hitler or Stalin, you start talking about WWI, the "war in the Pacific" and the Military Industrial Complex (yeah, that last one is right on topic...).

Quote

You chose to go to WW1 asking what territorial dispute, not I. I include all of the 20th C large scale conflict. I know the Pacific theatre of WW2 did not involve communists or socialists, but still happened between a monarchy and democracy. Fat man and little boy on Hiroshima and nagasaki, carpet bombing Korea and Vietnam and the mountain leveling MOAB trump dropped on day 1 in office, fit Nietzsches visions. Nothing does better than the 20-21st C trillion dollar budget, 800 base, full spectrum dominance, end of history, MIC.

Killing jews could not win the war unless an allied soldier also died for every one starved, worked, or gassed to death.

I suppose MAGA is promising, if not creating utopia, no different to  Ceasar keeping up the bread, circuses and orgies. Nihilism and Utopianism don't mix well. Concepts of Autarky and Lebenstraum for the Reich are as old as the concepts of tribe/race/country, territory and resource acquisition.

Oh yes, who can forget the "cold" war, the penultimate battle of ideologies. Cities were nuked, never ending wars were started, a literal wall was built to keep people from escaping from one ideology to another, and humanity came close to nuclear holocaust not once, but twice! Yep, material hardships and territorial disputes can explain all of that  ::)

Today, we have... a never ending pandemic and "systemic racism"  that takes priority over everything else and justifies extreme policy measures like lock downs and "defund the police" (attempts at Utopia), censorship of news stories which challenge or support the personifications of ideology, violence against people who don't tow the party line, cancellation of the pperceived opposition and elimination of anything that serves as evidence the Utopian vision is fatally flawed, like how the Soviets (and more recently Venezuela) stopped reporting starvation as a cause of death. Open your eyes... people wearing MAGA hats are the least of our problems.
GA

Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #119 on: October 28, 2020, 05:02:05 AM »


You chose to go to WW1 asking what territorial dispute, not I. I include all of the 20th C large scale conflict. I know the Pacific theatre of WW2 did not involve communists or socialists, but still happened between a monarchy and democracy. Fat man and little boy on Hiroshima and nagasaki, carpet bombing Korea and Vietnam and the mountain leveling MOAB trump dropped on day 1 in office, fit Nietzsches visions. Nothing does better than the 20-21st C trillion dollar budget, 800 base, full spectrum dominance, end of history, MIC.

Killing jews could not win the war unless an allied soldier also died for every one starved, worked, or gassed to death.

I suppose MAGA is promising, if not creating utopia, no different to  Ceasar keeping up the bread, circuses and orgies. Nihilism and Utopianism don't mix well. Concepts of Autarky and Lebenstraum for the Reich are as old as the concepts of tribe/race/country, territory and resource acquisition.

Oh yes, who can forget the "cold" war, the penultimate battle of ideologies. Cities were nuked, never ending wars were started, a literal wall was built to keep people from escaping from one ideology to another, and humanity came close to nuclear holocaust not once, but twice! Yep, material hardships and territorial disputes can explain all of that  ::)

Today, we have... a never ending pandemic and "systemic racism"  that takes priority over everything else and justifies extreme policy measures like lock downs and "defund the police" (attempts at Utopia), censorship of news stories which challenge or support the personifications of ideology, violence against people who don't tow the party line, cancellation of the pperceived opposition and elimination of anything that serves as evidence the Utopian vision is fatally flawed, like how the Soviets (and more recently Venezuela) stopped reporting starvation as a cause of death. Open your eyes... people wearing MAGA hats are the least of our problems.

Utopianism and nihilism go hand in hand. Just ask someone who has projected their ideals on a spouse only to find out the spouse is just another human like they are. The rational response in a modern culture without meaning is existential despair. Reminds me of Hillary supporters after the 2016 election.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 05:08:31 AM by Ashvin »

 

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