AuthorTopic: Ships in Horrible Storms  (Read 7576 times)

Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #120 on: October 28, 2020, 11:47:24 AM »


You chose to go to WW1 asking what territorial dispute, not I. I include all of the 20th C large scale conflict. I know the Pacific theatre of WW2 did not involve communists or socialists, but still happened between a monarchy and democracy. Fat man and little boy on Hiroshima and nagasaki, carpet bombing Korea and Vietnam and the mountain leveling MOAB trump dropped on day 1 in office, fit Nietzsches visions. Nothing does better than the 20-21st C trillion dollar budget, 800 base, full spectrum dominance, end of history, MIC.

Killing jews could not win the war unless an allied soldier also died for every one starved, worked, or gassed to death.

I suppose MAGA is promising, if not creating utopia, no different to  Ceasar keeping up the bread, circuses and orgies. Nihilism and Utopianism don't mix well. Concepts of Autarky and Lebenstraum for the Reich are as old as the concepts of tribe/race/country, territory and resource acquisition.

Oh yes, who can forget the "cold" war, the penultimate battle of ideologies. Cities were nuked, never ending wars were started, a literal wall was built to keep people from escaping from one ideology to another, and humanity came close to nuclear holocaust not once, but twice! Yep, material hardships and territorial disputes can explain all of that  ::)

Today, we have... a never ending pandemic and "systemic racism"  that takes priority over everything else and justifies extreme policy measures like lock downs and "defund the police" (attempts at Utopia), censorship of news stories which challenge or support the personifications of ideology, violence against people who don't tow the party line, cancellation of the pperceived opposition and elimination of anything that serves as evidence the Utopian vision is fatally flawed, like how the Soviets (and more recently Venezuela) stopped reporting starvation as a cause of death. Open your eyes... people wearing MAGA hats are the least of our problems.

Utopianism and nihilism go hand in hand. Just ask someone who has projected their ideals on a spouse only to find out the spouse is just another human like they are. The rational response in a modern culture without meaning is existential despair. Reminds me of Hillary supporters after the 2016 election.

By taking hunger or territorial dispute from explaining exactly what I said it explains as exceptions to how war and revolution started  and applying it to ongoing control, you are only supporting RE "ideology comes later".

What ideology were the cities nuked under?

How is a monarchy in Japan a rationalistic ideology?

How is the Ottoman Empire in ww1 not a caliphate and subject to rationalisticism or nihilisticism?

 What you are saying is making election promises by any political party or independent candidate is utopian, therefore rejecting democracy. What should replace it?
Women are like hurricanes: Wet and wild when they come, take your house when they leave

Offline RE

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #121 on: October 28, 2020, 02:06:58 PM »
What you are saying is making election promises by any political party or independent candidate is utopian, therefore rejecting democracy. What should replace it?

Watson makes many criticisms of political systems and ideologies, but he never presents a plausible alternative, or any way to get his vision implemented.  He's just a nay-sayer.

RE
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Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #122 on: October 28, 2020, 04:48:06 PM »
What you are saying is making election promises by any political party or independent candidate is utopian, therefore rejecting democracy. What should replace it?

Watson makes many criticisms of political systems and ideologies, but he never presents a plausible alternative, or any way to get his vision implemented.  He's just a nay-sayer.

RE

The whole point here is to get rid of Utopian thinking, not to replace Utopian vision with an equally untethered Utopian vision.

Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #123 on: October 28, 2020, 05:03:07 PM »
What ideology were the cities nuked under?

The ideology of displaying a huge show of power to an ally in a war that is ending because you are already preparing for the new war with the former ally that's about to begin. It only makes logical sense, don't you see?

Quote
How is a monarchy in Japan a rationalistic ideology?


Why can't a monarchy subscribe to rationalist ideology? Japan was clearly pursuing their own Utopian vision in the far East, and they committed horrendous atrocities in China in their attempts to achieve it.

Quote
How is the Ottoman Empire in ww1 not a caliphate and subject to rationalisticism or nihilisticism?

Why not? Modern (post 15th century) Islamic cultures have had a repeated tendency of envisioning the establishment of global religious utopia. After all that's why it became the Ottoman Empire.

 
Quote
What you are saying is making election promises by any political party or independent candidate is utopian, therefore rejecting democracy. What should replace it?

No, simply endorsing incremental change through political policies is not a vision of materialist perfection.

 

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