AuthorTopic: Ships in Horrible Storms  (Read 3904 times)

Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2020, 09:06:07 PM »



 Right now Trump is the lesser for a whole host of reasons.

Humour me sir, pray tell why?

The covid/economic angle is mostly covered in my reply to Eddie. One big thing I left out was the way in which Google, Facebook, Twitter are explicitly campaigning for Biden at this point. Why is that? Because they represent a world in which all "news" is filtered through an ideological agenda and they know the democrats, who share much of the same ideology, will not regulate them in any way. It is an Orweliian and Huxleyian nightmare if they go unchecked.

I also see the "social justice" angle as another expression of this dynamic. Just as the left claims we must eradicate the Covid threat completely before returning the rule of law, we must also eradicate "systemic racism" or racism in general before returning to any other priorities. Anything that is necessary to eliminate the threat is permitted.

Of course both of those things are scientifically impossible and practically counter productive to reducing the threats, but that is why its part of an ideology - the ideas themselves take precedence over all else, including the practical realities. As long as the imprecise and invisible threats remain, we must look to the ideologues to deal with them on our behalf. At least that's the official narrative of the left right now.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 09:08:20 PM by Ashvin »

Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2020, 01:56:04 PM »



 Right now Trump is the lesser for a whole host of reasons.

Humour me sir, pray tell why?

The covid/economic angle is mostly covered in my reply to Eddie. One big thing I left out was the way in which Google, Facebook, Twitter are explicitly campaigning for Biden at this point. Why is that? Because they represent a world in which all "news" is filtered through an ideological agenda and they know the democrats, who share much of the same ideology, will not regulate them in any way. It is an Orweliian and Huxleyian nightmare if they go unchecked.

I also see the "social justice" angle as another expression of this dynamic. Just as the left claims we must eradicate the Covid threat completely before returning the rule of law, we must also eradicate "systemic racism" or racism in general before returning to any other priorities. Anything that is necessary to eliminate the threat is permitted.

Of course both of those things are scientifically impossible and practically counter productive to reducing the threats, but that is why its part of an ideology - the ideas themselves take precedence over all else, including the practical realities. As long as the imprecise and invisible threats remain, we must look to the ideologues to deal with them on our behalf. At least that's the official narrative of the left right now.

Covid lockdowns are a global phenomena. If you have states with more lax measures, they will probably end up with higher case numbers and then either have to do it again or face international condemnation. I don't think you have experienced state border closures yet, see what that does for the high infection rate states economy when the rest of the country closes it's borders.

A good metaphor is Biden using disposable paper surgical masks as opposed to Trump using the US standard of cloth mask kept in his pocket until needed. Not at the Whitehouse, maybe Walmart's condition of entry. All his followers seem to take that cue and just buy one of those. These may be environmentally friendly to the forests, but don't appear to have any differentiation inside or outside. It's exactly the same on both sides.  I assume the side you had against your face the last time you used it has 50/50 odds of being turned over to face the world the next time. No problem if it is only a symbolic gesture. Border closures to only china by trump can also be seen as a symbolic gesture that forced him to later close borders to Europe, excepting the UK which would have been an insufferable indignity to his bases ideology, regardless of the UK infection rate.

I think you will find a right wing govt can only dangle wedge issue carrots on abortions and lockdowns, but have to bow to pressure in the end every time. Consider also bill gates appearing all over the place circa February 2020, confidently explaining it would happen precisely this way, that collectivist ethos asian countries would quickly curtail the spread and recover economically, while more individually focussed western countries (or states) would reluctantly close the gate too late and want to open it again too early. It's almost as if Bill and the billionaires are prescient, isn't it? Maybe they're not entirely. Unless I missed them saying Trump's trade war would predictably fail and cause an economic depression that just coincides with necessitating increased money printing for a pandemic.

On the topic of the left eliminating racism as an ideology, I think you are again putting too much faith in the power of a president or politicians to turn that around. It follows on as an effect of tenured academics who carry on their agenda regardless of the series of presidents administrations coming and going. At the same time, their ongoing viability does depend to some extent on 'make work' rather than narrowing down the problem. Taking offence to someone taking an interest in a different hair type is actually offensive to anyone who was killed, beaten up, bullied or excluded based on race.

What you minimize, ignore, or fail to understand is the number of people longing to engage in those things again flourishing since 2015.  A denouncement consisting of 'proud boys stand aside' from the president is of course just more encouragement. Now that you mention it about social media censoring, I noticed alternative spelling of 'white' and 'oy vey,' a secret handshake of sorts on utube comments. As you suggest, their racism can't be eradicated, they find workarounds.

« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 02:57:43 PM by Phil Rumpole »
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Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2020, 05:26:44 PM »



 Right now Trump is the lesser for a whole host of reasons.

Humour me sir, pray tell why?

The covid/economic angle is mostly covered in my reply to Eddie. One big thing I left out was the way in which Google, Facebook, Twitter are explicitly campaigning for Biden at this point. Why is that? Because they represent a world in which all "news" is filtered through an ideological agenda and they know the democrats, who share much of the same ideology, will not regulate them in any way. It is an Orweliian and Huxleyian nightmare if they go unchecked.

I also see the "social justice" angle as another expression of this dynamic. Just as the left claims we must eradicate the Covid threat completely before returning the rule of law, we must also eradicate "systemic racism" or racism in general before returning to any other priorities. Anything that is necessary to eliminate the threat is permitted.

Of course both of those things are scientifically impossible and practically counter productive to reducing the threats, but that is why its part of an ideology - the ideas themselves take precedence over all else, including the practical realities. As long as the imprecise and invisible threats remain, we must look to the ideologues to deal with them on our behalf. At least that's the official narrative of the left right now.

Covid lockdowns are a global phenomena. If you have states with more lax measures, they will probably end up with higher case numbers and then either have to do it again or face international condemnation. I don't think you have experienced state border closures yet, see what that does for the high infection rate states economy when the rest of the country closes it's borders.

I dont think we will be experiencing state border closures from covid because its just not that lethal of a virus for the average healthy person below 70 (although Trumps quick recovery may suggest its not even that bad if you are 75 and fat)

The fact is that anyone who has the means to flee a super liberal area like LA or NY is fleeing, because the risk of traveling and catching covid is nothing compared to the risk of living in an increasingly repressive collectivist hellscape. Even 50 cent says fuck blm IM OUT... once again the leftist policies only hurt poor people...
https://twitter.com/50cent/status/1318303260164431873?s=20



Quote
A good metaphor is Biden using disposable paper surgical masks as opposed to Trump using the US standard of cloth mask kept in his pocket until needed. Not at the Whitehouse, maybe Walmart's condition of entry. All his followers seem to take that cue and just buy one of those. These may be environmentally friendly to the forests, but don't appear to have any differentiation inside or outside. It's exactly the same on both sides.  I assume the side you had against your face the last time you used it has 50/50 odds of being turned over to face the world the next time. No problem if it is only a symbolic gesture. Border closures to only china by trump can also be seen as a symbolic gesture that forced him to later close borders to Europe, excepting the UK which would have been an insufferable indignity to his bases ideology, regardless of the UK infection rate.

I think you will find a right wing govt can only dangle wedge issue carrots on abortions and lockdowns, but have to bow to pressure in the end every time. Consider also bill gates appearing all over the place circa February 2020, confidently explaining it would happen precisely this way, that collectivist ethos asian countries would quickly curtail the spread and recover economically, while more individually focussed western countries (or states) would reluctantly close the gate too late and want to open it again too early. It's almost as if Bill and the billionaires are prescient, isn't it? Maybe they're not entirely. Unless I missed them saying Trump's trade war would predictably fail and cause an economic depression that just coincides with necessitating increased money printing for a pandemic.


Which eastern collectist countries are those? Certainly not India who is in the middle of pretty massive outbreaks now... speaking of which, this Indian guy is really worth listening to:
https://youtu.be/T_COvdCujaA

Quote
On the topic of the left eliminating racism as an ideology, I think you are again putting too much faith in the power of a president or politicians to turn that around. It follows on as an effect of tenured academics who carry on their agenda regardless of the series of presidents administrations coming and going. At the same time, their ongoing viability does depend to some extent on 'make work' rather than narrowing down the problem. Taking offence to someone taking an interest in a different hair type is actually offensive to anyone who was killed, beaten up, bullied or excluded based on race.

What you minimize, ignore, or fail to understand is the number of people longing to engage in those things again flourishing since 2015.  A denouncement consisting of 'proud boys stand aside' from the president is of course just more encouragement. Now that you mention it about social media censoring, I noticed alternative spelling of 'white' and 'oy vey,' a secret handshake of sorts on utube comments. As you suggest, their racism can't be eradicated, they find workarounds.

The leftist social justice ideology has been marinating in the academies and news/entertainment for deacdes. Its postmodern neo-Marxism. Class is substituted for race, gender, etc as the dividing line between the evil oppressors and the righteous oppressed. Its nothing new, Nietzche was tearing it apart back before the communist revolutions...
http://4umi.com/nietzsche/zarathustra/29

Meanwhile actual racism in the US has been disappearing rather quickly. Most minorities living in or close to inner cities fear losing the police presence much more than they fear being unjustly shot by the police, which rarely ever happens despite what the leftist media proclaims.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 05:30:50 PM by Ashvin »

Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2020, 02:23:17 AM »


Collectivist Asian countries referred to are eg Taiwan, SK Japan and the place we are told are lying about their numbers. The place Elon Musk mentioned he has a huge production and business operation, but did not lose one employee to covid. They do have the benefit of lower life expectancy and everyone being skinny though.  Thats the place Trump decided is in fact serious enough to immediately close border with, one he lost a trade war with, but that's nothing compared to the beating my country is taking in it.

Note I'm not arguing for collectivist ethos, I'm pointing out Bill Gates getting it right, apparently without foreknowledge. There is only one developed  economy to record positive growth this year. Someone said trade wars lead to hot wars. 

On India's outbreak, they have very high diabetes there, contributing especially on the good side of the wealth divide. Hunger is a much greater concern for probably 80% of people and the shutdown would make it worse. Food aid for people prevented from working largely did not reach the people, due to corruption of district captain's.. surprising nobody.


 On not having state border closures because the virus is not serious enough. The US is the place where the death toll is most significant, you are saying it would remain the exception to state border closures even by blue states wanting to shame a red state and keep their own economic recovery intact.  Remember I said trump did not think it serious enough to do anything at all except close border to china, but was forced by pressure to adopt all sorts of measures. That may be no different and may not even be his choice.

It certainly happens here and the isolated state would have lower figures than the best US state. a friend sent me a piece of new legislation, because it's his job to keep an eye on such things, about providing reservists with superannuation and other benefits when they are deployed to  emergencies such as bushfires. I said it's very simple: When you go on exercises as a reservist or in your case national guard, you have a great time so don't care about getting entitlements. responding to bushfires would be the same, exciting. Sitting at roadblocks in the sun and rain and wind to keep a state in quarantine would be no fun at all, so they needed to legislate proper payment and benefit.  Anyway the newsreaders can always use more gravitas when announcing that Texas has more positive tests this month than last month after testing twice as many people.  It may sound like I'm trivialising covid based on an arguably insignificant death rate, but I take it very seriously for different reasons. An eye opener was a couple in their 60s here. While the woman was testing negative, the man who was very fit for his age, a cyclist, was in a coma. The non recovered figure is the big one to watch because there are many people who can not get rid of it and are ongoing very sick, many in their 30s.

Defunding police does not mean having no police, just forcing them to police their own by hitting them in the budget and using the funds on community programs. I'm not averse to anarchy anyway.

I'm curious what an acceptable number of unjust police shootings is, what is the relative reference for "hardly ever" in a racially charged background. I don't agree with all BLM members tactics, like stopping traffic or shouting at people going about their business. Im not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater over it though. I consider the fully armed counter protest movement much more menacing.

'Postmodern' is an oxymoron, but if you accept that it's been progressing nicely for decades, then why place any hope in a current president to change that if he gets a second term. I find your take on Nietzsche eisegenic. What I recall he said in the will to power about socialism was that it is for weak men, he seemed to allude to an assumption that they can't compete and therefore require redistribution to survive.

I suggest that an equalised state education system is far more of a meritocracy than where a disadvantaged student in our own system needs to first beat crab mentality and crime before his cream rises to the top if he can secure a scholarship. Let's not forget who put sputnik in orbit and who only beat it with a hoax.

Nietzsche was also an ascetic, so should approve of the spartan and austere comforts under socialism. Finally, let's not forget what most endeared him to Hitler about his opinion on socialism; he called it the product of inferior men of an inferior race. Fire up the ovens then. This is still very much front and centre in the current white supremacist cult of the 21st century Fuhrer.

What Nietzsche did NOT talk about in the 19th century was cultural Marxism. I can't even call it a stretch, just misinformed if you did not even know his era and that the substitute of proletariat and bourgeoisie for other identities was in response to post WW2 middle class affluence. I know it's all a long time ago but they miss each other by 50 yrs.

What white identitarians studiously ignore is the purpose of the exercise.  They insist it is all just 'anti White' to dilute and replace them with inferior and ignorant 'muds' and 'shitskins' incapable of the conversation we are having, or continuing the civilization they alone were capable of building. The final stage after full 'marination' as you put it, is military defeat. That needs to sink in, instead of the belief system insisting it is only geared toward a kalergi plan. War rhetoric is turned up to eleven and we are planning having a gender, race and culture war at the same time as a world war.

You say racism is rapidly dissapearing. overt racism did decline over most of the past 50 yrs, but I'm afraid you're in denial, if you can't see how what was confined to the burning platform and comments section of zerohedge only 5 yrs ago is swelling up like the Michelin man online. AI, automation immigration and feminism disposessed them instead of cotton picking slaves today, but the salve for the sting is still the same. You're not a loser if your pigmentation created the empire.
 
I doubt you follow 50c on twitter as he was popular 15-20 yrs ago. I was thinking he has more than 50c, so high taxes probably had more to do with fleeing the cities you mentioned than fear of BLM, and clicking on the tweet you linked confirmed it. What he said was that he is voting for Trump despite him hating black people because Trump's top tax rate is 58c vs Bidens 62c.

 I did not paraphrase that, Trump supporters are proudly passing around a quote by a black man saying trump hates black people. I rest my case.



« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 02:57:30 AM by Phil Rumpole »
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Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2020, 05:49:42 AM »
Quote from: Phil Rumpole

Defunding police does not mean having no police, just forcing them to police their own by hitting them in the budget and using the funds on community programs. I'm not averse to anarchy anyway.

What you call "anarchy" the poor law abiding minorities of those defunded jurisdictions would call a genocide. And they wouldn't be wrong, because thats effectively what it means for them.

Quote
I'm curious what an acceptable number of unjust police shootings is, what is the relative reference for "hardly ever" in a racially charged background. I don't agree with all BLM members tactics, like stopping traffic or shouting at people going about their business. Im not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater over it though. I consider the fully armed counter protest movement much more menacing.

Thinking of terms of "acceptable numbers" numbers is the problem. Of the unjustifiable police shooting that do occur, what number of them can be attributed to racial bias more than other factors, like lack of proper training? That's the importanr questionand the fact that people on the left don't even think to ask it is worrisome to say the least.

Quote
Postmodern' is an oxymoron, but if you accept that it's been progressing nicely for decades, then why place any hope in a current president to change that if he gets a second term. I find your take on Nietzsche eisegenic. What I recall he said in the will to power about socialism was that it is for weak men, he seemed to allude to an assumption that they can't compete and therefore require redistribution to survive.

I suggest that an equalised state education system is far more of a meritocracy than where a disadvantaged student in our own system needs to first beat crab mentality and crime before his cream rises to the top if he can secure a scholarship. Let's not forget who put sputnik in orbit and who only beat it with a hoax.

Nietzsche was also an ascetic, so should approve of the spartan and austere comforts under socialism. Finally, let's not forget what most endeared him to Hitler about his opinion on socialism; he called it the product of inferior men of an inferior race. Fire up the ovens then. This is still very much front and centre in the current white supremacist cult of the 21st century Fuhrer.

What Nietzsche did NOT talk about in the 19th century was cultural Marxism. I can't even call it a stretch, just misinformed if you did not even know his era and that the substitute of proletariat and bourgeoisie for other identities was in response to post WW2 middle class affluence. I know it's all a long time ago but they miss each other by 50 yrs.

Read the link I posted, what he wrote about the "tarantulas" in Zarathustra reads like a direct criticism of the social justice warriors we have today, virtue signaling and all. If you think Nietzsche had anything good to say about socialism then you haven't understood him at all. He also criticized "asceticism" in the way you are using it. He was not a fan of those who preached against the life impulse to be courageous, ambitious and creative in the face of life's mysteries, the slave morality which says its better to be weak and ineffectual and better still to wear your weakness as a badge of moral superiority.

Quote
What white identitarians studiously ignore is the purpose of the exercise.  They insist it is all just 'anti White' to dilute and replace them with inferior and ignorant 'muds' and 'shitskins' incapable of the conversation we are having, or continuing the civilization they alone were capable of building. The final stage after full 'marination' as you put it, is military defeat. That needs to sink in, instead of the belief system insisting it is only geared toward a kalergi plan. War rhetoric is turned up to eleven and we are planning having a gender, race and culture war at the same time as a world war.

You say racism is rapidly dissapearing. overt racism did decline over most of the past 50 yrs, but I'm afraid you're in denial, if you can't see how what was confined to the burning platform and comments section of zerohedge only 5 yrs ago is swelling up like the Michelin man online. AI, automation immigration and feminism disposessed them instead of cotton picking slaves today, but the salve for the sting is still the same. You're not a loser if your pigmentation created the empire.
 
I doubt you follow 50c on twitter as he was popular 15-20 yrs ago. I was thinking he has more than 50c, so high taxes probably had more to do with fleeing the cities you mentioned than fear of BLM, and clicking on the tweet you linked confirmed it. What he said was that he is voting for Trump despite him hating black people because Trump's top tax rate is 58c vs Bidens 62c.

 I did not paraphrase that, Trump supporters are proudly passing around a quote by a black man saying trump hates black people. I rest my case.

I have no sympathy for white identitarians who feel oppressed by the left, but deducing their numbers and influence from online comment sections is silly. What important cultural institutions in the US do the ethno nationalist types actually control? None. Not media, not entertainment, not universities.

I didnt say 50 cent hates black people. The point is that he like most reasonable people is much more worried about leftist economic policies than the president "hating black people". But he, unlike most people, has the resources to just pack up and leave. Most people, like my bankrupt clients, don't have that luxury.

I do agree that the presidency has little to do with it. These local leftists will pursue those devastating economic policies regardless of who is in the white house. However I think a Biden victory would embolden them much more and that's the last thing we need right now.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 05:58:59 AM by Ashvin »

Offline RE

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2020, 09:38:06 AM »
Can we just agree we are fucked no matter who gets elected?

Look, even in RED states that open up, what idiot will go to a fitness facility for a workout?  Who will go to a restaurant no matter how good the food is?  You can't cut your own hair?  It's that hard?

RE
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Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2020, 12:09:24 PM »
Can we just agree we are fucked no matter who gets elected?

Look, even in RED states that open up, what idiot will go to a fitness facility for a workout?  Who will go to a restaurant no matter how good the food is?  You can't cut your own hair?  It's that hard?

RE

I go just about anywhere they will let me right now. We are social creatures and going out to places is biologically instantiated in us. That is the archetype of the hero's journey. The negative effect these lockdowns are going to have on mental health is unimaginable if they continue much longer. Zoom technology just doesnt cut it in the medium to long term.

Northern Virginia is not too bad in it's current level of restrictions. Maryland is somehwat more restrictive. I can't even imagine living in NY or Cali right now.

Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2020, 02:30:17 PM »
To be clear, full anarchy is no govt, not  having a small part of bloated police dept budget diverted to community programs. Ask any of the older guys here about the 20th century when men could settle disputes without anyone even thinking of calling the cops and women in aprons would haul someone else's kid or teenager back to their mother and tell them what they did, then the mother would make them apologise and make restitution. Communities are capable of healthy socialisation and dealing with far more on their own than you might think.

Yes, the point to Trump supporters is 50c is "voting for Trump" because his top tax rate is 4c "less" than Biden, blank stare from trump supportersp on him saying verbatim trump hates black people. What could be more normal? I give up.

I never said Nietzsche had anything good to say on socialism. He went into isolation in the wilderness alone to harden himself, that's an ascetic. He feared exactly the softening that later came with the comfort of materialistic consumption. Blatant antisemitism behind his criticism, yes of course, what's the problem?

Patriots don't need to control CNN or Google to bash a black, but the social media giants do let them congregate on their platforms and talk all the time about how they can't wait for it to start.  They even like to promote just so much. I can tell when occasionally things appear in my utube feed that are unrelated to anything I've been looking at.  Yesterday there was one of joy villa doing a parody of some Mexican actress who posted up teary eyed about being mobbed by  Maga hats. A couple of weeks ago a bible prophesy channel had some very frumpy woman chosen by God to be the modern equivalent of Moses and see the burning bush. The vid was  over an hour long but I only got 3 mins in. In that time she had seen beatific trump like a beast of revelation take Nancy Pelosi in his teeth and shake her like a terrier with a mouse. Then she mentioned her concern for the Christians in china, implication being we need to spread them freedom and democracy. She said the great Wall is a monument, so like a statue in honour of someone or something, not over 10k miles of fortification. She provided a little known fact it was built by Christians and contains millions of their bodies. I thought it was started long before Christ was born and completed before even Marco Polo first reported back from there. Imagine what I could have learned from the full hour. 

The whole thing is like a cargo cult. I literally just can't even

 
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 02:39:25 PM by Phil Rumpole »
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Offline RE

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2020, 03:59:10 PM »
Can we just agree we are fucked no matter who gets elected?

Look, even in RED states that open up, what idiot will go to a fitness facility for a workout?  Who will go to a restaurant no matter how good the food is?  You can't cut your own hair?  It's that hard?

RE

I go just about anywhere they will let me right now. We are social creatures and going out to places is biologically instantiated in us. That is the archetype of the hero's journey. The negative effect these lockdowns are going to have on mental health is unimaginable if they continue much longer. Zoom technology just doesnt cut it in the medium to long term.

Northern Virginia is not too bad in it's current level of restrictions. Maryland is somehwat more restrictive. I can't even imagine living in NY or Cali right now.

I agree Homo Sap is a Social Animal, and we can't go without congregating in groups forever.  Without the intenet even the current level of commerce could not be maintained.  The question is how long is long enough, when is it too soon, how can we best minimize transmission, how much freedom must we sacrifice, etc?

IMHO, it is too soon.  Here in Alaska where we had a remarkably low # of COVID cases even by percentage, with the reopening of schools and relaxing of restrictions on bars and restaurants, we have seen a huge spike up.

One has to remember more cases is ALSO a drain on the economy.  That means more hospitalizatios, more OT for doctors and nurses, etc.  You're going to lose money either way, but which way saves the most lives?

A 10% population reduction might be enough for Herd Immunity to set in.  That would be around 750M Dead People.  At the current pace, we might make that in 2-3 years.

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Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2020, 06:41:35 PM »
To be clear, full anarchy is no govt, not  having a small part of bloated police dept budget diverted to community programs. Ask any of the older guys here about the 20th century when men could settle disputes without anyone even thinking of calling the cops and women in aprons would haul someone else's kid or teenager back to their mother and tell them what they did, then the mother would make them apologise and make restitution. Communities are capable of healthy socialisation and dealing with far more on their own than you might think.

Yeah, well, those days are gone now... when there is even talk of reducing police presence in major cities, violent crime spikes, mostly serious assaults and murders. What would happen if that presence was actually cut in half or even more? It's easy to say people living in these terrible situations can "deal with far more on their own" because you don't have to deal with the reality when it happens.

Quote
Yes, the point to Trump supporters is 50c is "voting for Trump" because his top tax rate is 4c "less" than Biden, blank stare from trump supporters on him saying verbatim trump hates black people. What could be more normal? I give up.

Who cares if he says Trump hates black people? His actions speak volumes louder than his words - if he actually thought a Trump presidency was a huge threat to the very existence of black people in this country, he wouldn't vote for him, no matter how high Biden's tax rate was. His tweet was a big fuck you to BLM because their motto is, "the ONLY thing you should be thinking about when you cast your vote is how Trump (and all republicans) hate blacks and want to destroy our race". Sorry, most Americans including most black Americans realize that's garbage.

Quote
I never said Nietzsche had anything good to say on socialism. He went into isolation in the wilderness alone to harden himself, that's an ascetic. He feared exactly the softening that later came with the comfort of materialistic consumption. Blatant antisemitism behind his criticism, yes of course, what's the problem?

What "blatant antisemitism"?  If you are referring to his fascist sister's editing of his works while he was dying and after he was dead, that was exposed for what it was a long time ago. He is actually the guy who wrote a letter to a friend saying "I am just having all anti-Semites shot".

Quote
Patriots don't need to control CNN or Google to bash a black, but the social media giants do let them congregate on their platforms and talk all the time about how they can't wait for it to start.  They even like to promote just so much. I can tell when occasionally things appear in my utube feed that are unrelated to anything I've been looking at.  Yesterday there was one of joy villa doing a parody of some Mexican actress who posted up teary eyed about being mobbed by  Maga hats. A couple of weeks ago a bible prophesy channel had some very frumpy woman chosen by God to be the modern equivalent of Moses and see the burning bush. The vid was  over an hour long but I only got 3 mins in. In that time she had seen beatific trump like a beast of revelation take Nancy Pelosi in his teeth and shake her like a terrier with a mouse. Then she mentioned her concern for the Christians in china, implication being we need to spread them freedom and democracy. She said the great Wall is a monument, so like a statue in honour of someone or something, not over 10k miles of fortification. She provided a little known fact it was built by Christians and contains millions of their bodies. I thought it was started long before Christ was born and completed before even Marco Polo first reported back from there. Imagine what I could have learned from the full hour. 

The whole thing is like a cargo cult. I literally just can't even

You are basing your fear of the rise of neo-Nazi racists in the US on some random videos that come on to your YouTube feed? Do you really think those people are representative of the average conservative American? What's cult like is the willingness of the average American (or perhaps even Westerner) to accept the narratives fed to them by radical leftist institutions without question.

Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2020, 06:45:33 PM »
Can we just agree we are fucked no matter who gets elected?

Look, even in RED states that open up, what idiot will go to a fitness facility for a workout?  Who will go to a restaurant no matter how good the food is?  You can't cut your own hair?  It's that hard?

RE

I go just about anywhere they will let me right now. We are social creatures and going out to places is biologically instantiated in us. That is the archetype of the hero's journey. The negative effect these lockdowns are going to have on mental health is unimaginable if they continue much longer. Zoom technology just doesnt cut it in the medium to long term.

Northern Virginia is not too bad in it's current level of restrictions. Maryland is somehwat more restrictive. I can't even imagine living in NY or Cali right now.

I agree Homo Sap is a Social Animal, and we can't go without congregating in groups forever.  Without the intenet even the current level of commerce could not be maintained.  The question is how long is long enough, when is it too soon, how can we best minimize transmission, how much freedom must we sacrifice, etc?

IMHO, it is too soon.  Here in Alaska where we had a remarkably low # of COVID cases even by percentage, with the reopening of schools and relaxing of restrictions on bars and restaurants, we have seen a huge spike up.

One has to remember more cases is ALSO a drain on the economy.  That means more hospitalizatios, more OT for doctors and nurses, etc.  You're going to lose money either way, but which way saves the most lives?

A 10% population reduction might be enough for Herd Immunity to set in.  That would be around 750M Dead People.  At the current pace, we might make that in 2-3 years.

RE

What segment of the population is mostly getting infected? Has there also been a huge spike up in hospitalizations and deaths?

There is no comparison between the drain on the economy from increased Covid infections and the DRAIN on the economy from literally shutting it down.

Offline RE

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2020, 08:32:22 PM »

What segment of the population is mostly getting infected? Has there also been a huge spike up in hospitalizations and deaths?

By anf large, it kills the old, the otherwise health compromised and the poor.  This varies from state to state by absolute numbers and by percent.

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There is no comparison between the drain on the economy from increased Covid infections and the DRAIN on the economy from literally shutting it down.

That is because no numbers have been estimated for the total health care costs or the lost workers who are sick.  It definitely has cost trillions in funny money so far though.

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Ashvin

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2020, 09:15:14 PM »

What segment of the population is mostly getting infected? Has there also been a huge spike up in hospitalizations and deaths?

By anf large, it kills the old, the otherwise health compromised and the poor.  This varies from state to state by absolute numbers and by percent.

Quote
There is no comparison between the drain on the economy from increased Covid infections and the DRAIN on the economy from literally shutting it down.

That is because no numbers have been estimated for the total health care costs or the lost workers who are sick.  It definitely has cost trillions in funny money so far though.

RE

I meant the "huge spike" of cases in Alaska this month?

Offline John of Wallan

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2020, 10:47:58 PM »
I keep hearing the same line:
"Its only the people already sick or old it affecting."
That's ok then. They are not important to the economy apparently..
Lockdowns are are drain on the economy. So is healthcare. So is the military. so is the police. So is education. So is welfare. We can do with out all these, but not sure I would like to live in a country without them thankyou very much.

I know quite a few elderly and infirm people I would like not to die early from this virus thank you very much. My parents. My wife. RE. A few of my friends. All of my uncles and aunts.

This other myth; "Its not as deadly as the flu."
Incorrect. Its about 10 times more infectious and 10 times more deadly from what figures from our health department are saying. I dont believe China would have locked down like they did if it was just another seasonal flu. There has not been a huge spike in hospitalizations and death as we have been in lockdown to stop a huge spike in hospitalizations and deaths.

We have gone through a quite severe lockdown here in Melbourne and surrounding areas. Rightly so. It may not be affecting the young and fit as much, but it still affects them. A young fitter in our maintenance team around 30 years old and very physically fit came down with it about 2 months ago. We all went and got tested as a precaution. Was like a bad flu for about a week and a half according to him. Since "recovering" he has not been able to run any distance despite previously doing 5km every other night in training for his football team. Says he goes about 200m and has to stop and gasp for air. Doctors tell him his lung function may be permanently compromised. It affects other differently. Some more severe, some less. Latest data shows if you are O type blood you dont get it as severe as other types.

I cant understand why it has become a political divide not just in Merika but here in Oz as well. Science does not have a political view, its science. It tries to find the facts.

JOW.

Offline Phil Rumpole

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Re: Ships in Horrible Storms
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2020, 02:50:47 AM »
To be clear, full anarchy is no govt, not  having a small part of bloated police dept budget diverted to community programs. Ask any of the older guys here about the 20th century when men could settle disputes without anyone even thinking of calling the cops and women in aprons would haul someone else's kid or teenager back to their mother and tell them what they did, then the mother would make them apologise and make restitution. Communities are capable of healthy socialisation and dealing with far more on their own than you might think.

Yeah, well, those days are gone now... when there is even talk of reducing police presence in major cities, violent crime spikes, mostly serious assaults and murders. What would happen if that presence was actually cut in half or even more? It's easy to say people living in these terrible situations can "deal with far more on their own" because you don't have to deal with the reality when it happens.

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Yes, the point to Trump supporters is 50c is "voting for Trump" because his top tax rate is 4c "less" than Biden, blank stare from trump supporters on him saying verbatim trump hates black people. What could be more normal? I give up.

Who cares if he says Trump hates black people? His actions speak volumes louder than his words - if he actually thought a Trump presidency was a huge threat to the very existence of black people in this country, he wouldn't vote for him, no matter how high Biden's tax rate was. His tweet was a big fuck you to BLM because their motto is, "the ONLY thing you should be thinking about when you cast your vote is how Trump (and all republicans) hate blacks and want to destroy our race". Sorry, most Americans including most black Americans realize that's garbage.

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I never said Nietzsche had anything good to say on socialism. He went into isolation in the wilderness alone to harden himself, that's an ascetic. He feared exactly the softening that later came with the comfort of materialistic consumption. Blatant antisemitism behind his criticism, yes of course, what's the problem?

What "blatant antisemitism"?  If you are referring to his fascist sister's editing of his works while he was dying and after he was dead, that was exposed for what it was a long time ago. He is actually the guy who wrote a letter to a friend saying "I am just having all anti-Semites shot".

Quote
Patriots don't need to control CNN or Google to bash a black, but the social media giants do let them congregate on their platforms and talk all the time about how they can't wait for it to start.  They even like to promote just so much. I can tell when occasionally things appear in my utube feed that are unrelated to anything I've been looking at.  Yesterday there was one of joy villa doing a parody of some Mexican actress who posted up teary eyed about being mobbed by  Maga hats. A couple of weeks ago a bible prophesy channel had some very frumpy woman chosen by God to be the modern equivalent of Moses and see the burning bush. The vid was  over an hour long but I only got 3 mins in. In that time she had seen beatific trump like a beast of revelation take Nancy Pelosi in his teeth and shake her like a terrier with a mouse. Then she mentioned her concern for the Christians in china, implication being we need to spread them freedom and democracy. She said the great Wall is a monument, so like a statue in honour of someone or something, not over 10k miles of fortification. She provided a little known fact it was built by Christians and contains millions of their bodies. I thought it was started long before Christ was born and completed before even Marco Polo first reported back from there. Imagine what I could have learned from the full hour. 

The whole thing is like a cargo cult. I literally just can't even

You are basing your fear of the rise of neo-Nazi racists in the US on some random videos that come on to your YouTube feed? Do you really think those people are representative of the average conservative American? What's cult like is the willingness of the average American (or perhaps even Westerner) to accept the narratives fed to them by radical leftist institutions without question.

Well you can have the statist ratcheting up of atomization of community and lawfare as arbiter until it ends in anarchy. Ethics will then become resurgent by necessity for survival. A violent criminal will be punished by the community when there is no punishment for taking law into its own hands. Speaking of hands, even the handshake evolved first from meeting a stranger and checking if they had a weapon by shaking their hand. It then became a way of signalling your decency and trustworthiness. It has gone by the wayside now.

I don't know about Voltaire's sister editing his writing. I'm not interested enough to look into it. I read his work initially to see why Hitler was basing his ideology around the philosophy. I do recall seeing it written that he attributed socialism to a broken or inferior men and race. You would need to look at the original handwritten pages to determine if he never said it. I'm sorry to say that I can't see he said anything profound.

I provided the two utube vids to illustrate the social media giants promoting rather than silencing support for Trump. The second one also illustrates the post facts or post truth nature of political discourse today. the host could have decided to not post her demonstrably false dialogue. Instead there is an unspoken agreement to always admire the emperor's new clothes. This is on both sides of politics. Postmodernist communists would not succeed in demoralising and dividing the people enough, if one side was reality based enough to not wish away incoming fire in a war.

I take behavioral science very seriously, it's reading the comments not under those utube vids, but under Jordan Peterson Brett and Eric Weinstein, Sam Harris, Charles and Douglas Murray and other intellectuals that white supremacists don't even understand. I mentioned the burning platform and zerohedge before, add to that the Facebook pages of right wing politicians such as Senator Chris McDaniels in America, Pauline Hanson in Australia and every men's rights activist or writer. I gave up on the whole movement as it decided to alienate half its potential support base by becoming aligned with the far right. Without fail, there are always people who chime in with comments completely off topic about western civilization, immigration, race mixing and the Jewish conspiracy. White people with shit going on in their lives don't need to do this, those who do are just losers left behind. They are easily refuted if I deign to waste my time, which I have often done. The point being, that is my data set, not the two vids I last mentioned.

50c is perfectly entitled to vote for whoever least taxes top income earners and I will not castigate him for doing it. Any of us would do the same thing. What I find astonishing is Trump supporters accepting the part of his tweet saying "trump doesn't like black people" and gleefully sharing it. Would you accept Lot's lot and find just two good men to say he is wrong? The irony is I don't think it is true. If Mexicans, Blacks and LGBTQ appointed him their figurehead and promised the votes to get re-elected, he would play up to them instead.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 04:38:23 AM by Phil Rumpole »
Women are like hurricanes: Wet and wild when they come, take your house when they leave

 

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