AuthorTopic: Download a Gun  (Read 1343 times)

Offline RE

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Download a Gun
« on: May 09, 2013, 11:52:11 PM »
In one of the more interesting Tech Developments of Computing, it is now possible through 3-D Printing Technology to Make Your Own Gun at Home.

This of course is causing FITS in the Goobermint Gun Control paradigm, and they are doing their best now on the Legal End to put a stop to it.  Like most things Tech though, once the Genie is Out of the Bottle, it is tough to stuff back in.

Now, the whole 3-D Printing thing using Polymers, CAD and CNC machines to produce parts is quite techy, but now more or less affordable if you are personally LOADED.  For anywhere from about $3000-$5000 you can get a pretty good one of these gadgets.  No idea what the Polymers cost that are used for "printing" parts.

I also wonder about Polymer Guns and whether they are picked up with TSA screening equipment, particularly if they are Disassembled?  Likely not as I understand the Xray technology used.

Anyhow, even if the Justice Dept manages to get this particular Techy Nerd to remove his software for Gun Production, absolutely ANY mechanical engineer with a Gun and the 3D Printer Technology could simply disassemble, measure all the parts, drop the parameters into a CAD program and POOF, Print out a Copy of said Gun!  You probably could even write a Subroutine which would allow you to simply Photograph the parts  on 3 axes of rotation and get the computer to do most of the work in setting up the Print.

It would be pretty difficult to take the 3D Printers themselves off the market, since anybody with a Tool & Die Biz uses these things regularly now.  This will be an interesting one to watch as it develops.

RE

US State Department Halts 3-D Gun Production: Demands Removal Of All Online Blueprints

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 05/09/2013 22:01 -0400

Three days ago, in an article that looked at the convergence of 3-D printing and the 2nd Amendment, we presented "the Liberator" - the world's first fully 3-D printed firearm. The name was aptly chosen because courtesy of its creator, 25-year old UofT law student Cody Wilson, and his non-profit group Defense Distributed, its online blueprint and assembly instructions liberated "anyone to be able to download and print a gun with no serial number, in the privacy of their garage" in effect completely circumventing any gun control/distribution laws, background checks and other regulatory hurdles of an increasingly authoritarian government. In fact, we were counting the number of days before some US Federal agency would come knocking on Cody Wilson's door and involved that other key Amendment - the First, by either "disappearing him" or politely enforcing a permanent Cease and Desist of all production, including, of course, the removal of all online "liberating" blueprints. We didn't have long to wait - it took just one week.

As Tech Crunch reports, "the State Department has demanded that new blueprints for a fully 3-D-printed gun be taken offline just a week after they were posted. The Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance is forcing outspoken Second Amendment crusader Cody Wilson to remove the downloadable 3-D printer files from Defcad.org under expert laws known as the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR)."

"Until the Department provides Defense Distributed with final [commodity jurisdiction] determinations, Defense Distributed should treat the above technical data as ITAR-controled,” reads the State Department order, seen below in its entirety.

Specifically, the Dept of State claims that under "ITAR, it is unlawful to export any defense article or technical data for which a license or written approval is required without first obtaining the required authorization from the DDTC. Please note that disclosing (including oral or visual disclosure) or transferring technical data to a foreign person, whether in the United States or abroad, is considered an expoert under [ ] ITAR." And since by implication this means that all the data can be seen by at least one foreigner, "this means that all such data should be removed from public access immediately."

Naturally, Cody would be stupid to fight the US government on this one, which is why he won't. "We have to comply" he told Forbes.

However, courtesy of the magic of the internet, taking down his files does nothing for the some 100,000 downloads of the entire blueprint set, distributed among various nodes, and are now held, in one instance, in Kim Dotcom's offshore New Zealand servers, where not even the long hand of John Kerry can reach. And just as a backup, the files have also been uploaded to the decentralized bittorrent database, Pirate Bay.

More interesting will be whether the PGP case study of anti-Big Brother retaliation applies in the Liberator case. As TechCrunch explains:

    According to Forbes’ Andy Greenberg, Wilson sees parallels between his strife and the governments abandoned attempts at censoring military-grade encryption software. In the 1990s inventor Phil Zimmermann released software, PGP, so difficult to crack that it could have permitted malicious actors from hiding information from law enforcement. Wilson believes public pressure ultimately convinced the government to back off of Zimmermann.

     

    It’ll be interesting to see whether the government has any actual power to prevent the propagation of 3-D gun blueprints.

Since the libertarian community is quite adept at bypassing the tyranny of an encroaching despot, it has already made the pre-banned files widely available to anyone who wishes to access them. The links, courtesy of SHTFplan.com, are below:

    Pirate Bay torrent download information: http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/8449468/Liberator_-_First_3D_Printable_Gun
    Or at: http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/8444391/DefDist_Liberator_Pistol
    ZIP FILE: http://www.fatguyinmontana.com/2013/05/07/defense-distributed-liberator-pistol/
    You’ll also need a 3D printer – the Cube 3D printer is available for retail purchase from Staples at a cost of $1299.

Finally, as a warning to those who wish to take the Federal government head on in what appears to be its attempt to regulate decentralized gun creation, SHTFplan also presents the following warning.

    An administrator at the DefCad forums posted the following warning regarding the government’s takedown and the current status of The Liberator and 3D firearms based on its plans:

        I’ll be bringing in legal authority and FAQ, but for now, if you are not a registered FFL/SOT:

         

        1. DO NOT print a completely polymer firearm capable of firing a bullet (barrel inserts or no), as you will likely create anNFA regulated firearm. Specifically, you will likely create an AOW zip gun.2.

         

        DO NOT print a completely polymer firearm capable of firing a bullet (barrel inserts or no), as you will likely violate the so-called Undetectable Firearms Act.

         

        Not listening to items 1 and 2 means you are on your way to committing a Federal crime. Because of the public profile and interest over this kind of activity at the moment, you WILL be made an example of. You WILL go to federal prison, and you WILL never be able to own a firearm again.

The full State Department Letter, signed by Glenn Smith, Chief of the Enforcement Division, demanding the removal of the 3D gun blueprints is presented below.
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Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Download a Gun
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2013, 06:07:29 AM »
I also wonder about Polymer Guns and whether they are picked up with TSA screening equipment, particularly if they are Disassembled?  Likely not as I understand the Xray technology used.
That is precisely why this gun is banned, because it does not have enough metal in it to be detectable.  If you do give it a metal coating, it could conceivably be perfectly legal.  Maybe.
Quote
Anyhow, even if the Justice Dept manages to get this particular Techy Nerd to remove his software for Gun Production, absolutely ANY mechanical engineer with a Gun and the 3D Printer Technology could simply disassemble, measure all the parts, drop the parameters into a CAD program and POOF, Print out a Copy of said Gun!  You probably could even write a Subroutine which would allow you to simply Photograph the parts  on 3 axes of rotation and get the computer to do most of the work in setting up the Print.
BZZT!! Wrong answer!!  As a consolation prize, if you were to fire said gun, you would be in the running for a Darwin Award.  You can't just copy a METAL gun using PLASTIC  :o  This gun had to be specially designed for the plastic to withstand the exploding gases from the back of the bullet.

However, you don't need a computer and all this fancy high tech gadgetry to copy a gun.  You can make molds out of a mix of 50% sand / 50% clay that you pour molten metal into to form into the proper parts.  David Gingery wrote a series of books on how to build a machine shop from scrap with that kind of capabilities.
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Offline RE

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Re: Download a Gun
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2013, 06:19:39 AM »
BZZT!! Wrong answer!!  As a consolation prize, if you were to fire said gun, you would be in the running for a Darwin Award.  You can't just copy a METAL gun using PLASTIC  :o  This gun had to be specially designed for the plastic to withstand the exploding gases from the back of the bullet.

Nonsense.  First off, depending on the polymer used, it can take as much or more heat and pressure as any metal can.

Second inside a Gun, the only place really subjected to high heat and pressure is in the chamber and and barrel.  You can make MOST of the working parts of the gun, firing mechanism etc out of Plastic and just add a simple metal tube for the barrel.  The Bullet fits in the Barrel, all the explosive goes only one direction, through the barrel.

ALL Plastic guns are tough to make unless you have real strong polymers, but Hybridizing with a little metal you can make a pretty serviceable gun for sure.  Even without the tech, making a Zip Gun is not that tough to do.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Download a Gun
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2013, 06:25:07 AM »
Nothing wrong with plastic guns...but any gun built by an amateur using a new technology is subject to fail, based on the typical reasons...not following instructions properly, using substituted materials or an inferior printer, or even using the wrong load in the bullets.

Somebody is really likely to get hurt, very soon, by firing a defective gun printed off these plans. I'd be very surprised if that doesn't happen.
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Offline RE

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Re: Download a Gun
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2013, 06:30:18 AM »

Somebody is really likely to get hurt, very soon, by firing a defective gun printed off these plans.

File that one under "You can't make an Omellette without Breaking a Few Eggs".  LOL.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Download a Gun
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2013, 06:46:51 AM »
It will just give TPTB another reason to regulate the manufacture of guns to the point of driving the legitimate manufacturers out of business, or requiring gun owners to carry liability insurance, or some such silly shit.

I view what that guy did as irresponsible and possibly damaging...he did it because he wanted to prove something. It meets no real need, and it might backfire, politically if not literally.
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Offline DoomerSupport

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Re: Download a Gun
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2013, 10:08:14 AM »

Anyhow, even if the Justice Dept manages to get this particular Techy Nerd to remove his software for Gun Production, absolutely ANY mechanical engineer with a Gun and the 3D Printer Technology could simply disassemble, measure all the parts, drop the parameters into a CAD program and POOF, Print out a Copy of said Gun!  You probably could even write a Subroutine which would allow you to simply Photograph the parts  on 3 axes of rotation and get the computer to do most of the work in setting up the Print.

The photo-to-CAD aspect has been around from quite some time, it was developed to facilitate mapping real objects into Second Life.  The's also software to take Second Life objects and run them to a 3D printer.

There are much easier and safer ways of making weapons.  However, I can see a market for cool paintball and airsoft gun plans with this technology.


Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Download a Gun
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2013, 12:29:14 PM »
BZZT!! Wrong answer!!  As a consolation prize, if you were to fire said gun, you would be in the running for a Darwin Award.  You can't just copy a METAL gun using PLASTIC  :o  This gun had to be specially designed for the plastic to withstand the exploding gases from the back of the bullet.

Nonsense.  First off, depending on the polymer used, it can take as much or more heat and pressure as any metal can.

Second inside a Gun, the only place really subjected to high heat and pressure is in the chamber and and barrel.  You can make MOST of the working parts of the gun, firing mechanism etc out of Plastic and just add a simple metal tube for the barrel.  The Bullet fits in the Barrel, all the explosive goes only one direction, through the barrel.

ALL Plastic guns are tough to make unless you have real strong polymers, but Hybridizing with a little metal you can make a pretty serviceable gun for sure.  Even without the tech, making a Zip Gun is not that tough to do.

RE
LOL... um, that's what I meant by "specially designed"... perhaps I should have said "specifically designed".  My biggest concern is that as far as I know, there is a very, very limited selection of polymers for use in 3D printers, I doubt there are any as strong as steel.

I didn't mean to imply making a plastic gun was that difficult, just that you couldn't be an idiot and just copy a metal gun.

And like some other Diners said, I think the next step is to require liability insurance for all guns.  THAT will control guns far more effectively than any registration or confiscation.

Of course, I think if I were making a high-tech printable weapon, it'd be a extreme velocity miniature crossbow....  :exp-evil:
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline DoomerSupport

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Re: Download a Gun
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2013, 01:37:10 PM »

Of course, I think if I were making a high-tech printable weapon, it'd be a extreme velocity miniature crossbow....  :exp-evil:


Nice idea.

When "insurgents" get hold of them for IED construction, then the fun will begin. Download plan, 3D-print the structure, add your favorite explosive, and boom's your uncle.  Mines that fire armor-piercing jets of superheated liquid metal straight up though the bottom of the vehicle.  Stand-off frames for shaped charges to maximize penetration of unprotected targets.  3D printed caltrops.  Piercing weapons (bolts, arrows, shrapnel)  printed in such a way to deliver poison     

3D printing has the potential to redefine asymmetrical warfare.   



 

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