AuthorTopic: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory  (Read 37052 times)

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Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« on: April 02, 2012, 04:43:18 PM »
Discuss the Feture Article here in this thread.

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2012, 03:31:09 PM »
I found an additional dat set taking the Heat Content back to the 1940s.  According to this data, Heat content was relatively steady until about 1980



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Offline JoeP

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 02:57:41 PM »
Warmer seas behind Antarctic ice shelf melt, study finds

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Now, a new satellite survey of Antarctica places the blame largely on the water. "In most places in Antarctica, we can't explain the ice-shelf thinning through melting of snow at the surface," said study team member Hamish Pritchard of the British Antarctic Survey in a statement. "So it has to be driven by warm ocean currents melting them from below."

full article...
just my straight shooting honest opinion

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 03:09:42 PM »
Remember, you read it here first!  I want the Nobel Prize for this!

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Offline Surly1

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 07:20:45 PM »
Somebody, quick, alert the Nobel Committee!
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline JoeP

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2012, 07:49:54 PM »
Re,

You did remember to copyright your theory - right?   ;)
just my straight shooting honest opinion

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2012, 10:43:08 PM »
Re,

You did remember to copyright your theory - right?   ;)

 :LolLolLolLol:  No, but I do have my Original Publication Date well established on the Yahoo Server, so if somebody else DOES get the Nobel Prize for this, I will definitely Sue for recognition also. :whip:

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2012, 11:33:35 AM »
Recent posts I made on TAE on Geotectonic Heat Transfer Theory:

Quote from: Ashvin

Do you mean our solar system's alignment with the center of the galaxy by "galactic ecliptic"? If so, then you have a slight problem, because there is no alignment. That is just a bogus myth perpetuated by the equally bogus 2012 apocalypse/new age crowd. Similarly, the Earth is not passing through any sort of highly charged "photon belt".

This is a myth?  You are telling me the astronomy which generates this graphic is mythical?



Based on what I know about astronomy, the Milky Way Galaxy is a relatively flat disk, and so is our Solar System.  All the Planets revolve around the Sun on near the same plane, and the Sun itself does oscillate inside the plane of the Galactic Eclipitc, with a periodicity I think I recall being around 16,000 years but not sure on that number exactly and I'm not going to go Googling for it now.

It only stands to reason that in the central plane of the Ecliptic you would have the most particles, because that is of course where most of the matter got distributed out in the first place.  Whatever it is the whole GALAXY is revolving around is one mighty big Gravity Well, that is for sure.  What ever is in the middle there is rotating and dragging everything in the well along with it, thus you get the shape of the Galaxy as a flat disk spiral.  Such a gravity well is likely to be spewing out neutrinos in vast quantities along this plane, and neutrino detectors have been showing ever increasing neutrino flux as we approach the ecliptic.

So there is EVIDENCE here of the hard science sort, which hardly makes it a mythical idea, unless for some reason you find this astronomy to be suspect and mythical itself.  So please elucidate for me what is mythical about the astronomy.

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To add some further analytical depth from my end here, I republished an article I wrote in the direct aftermath of the Sendai quake which sent the Fuk-U-shima Reactors on their way to the Great Beyond.

Included in this article are further links to my discussions on the Peak Oil board during the Yellowstone Quake flurries with my friend Stormbringer and a few Geologists from the USGS and the Oil Patch.

You can read the full article at

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2012/04/28/res-geological-cosmological-event-watch/

Just trying to fill you in here Ash on a LOT of conversation that led up to this theory.  It doesn't come out of thin air, and if you read all the response posts on Peak Oil, I think you will get that this has a decent amount of "peer review".

Now, once again, please justify your assertion that passing through the galactic ecliptic is a "mythical" event concocted by New Age tin foil wingnuts.

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Quote from: RE

It only stands to reason that in the central plane of the Ecliptic you would have the most particles, because that is of course where most of the matter got distributed out in the first place.  Whatever it is the whole GALAXY is revolving around is one mighty big Gravity Well, that is for sure.  What ever is in the middle there is rotating and dragging everything in the well along with it, thus you get the shape of the Galaxy as a flat disk spiral.  Such a gravity well is likely to be spewing out neutrinos in vast quantities along this plane, and neutrino detectors have been showing ever increasing neutrino flux as we approach the ecliptic.

RE

One more note on the shape of Galaxies and particle distribution.

Any  spherical spinning object spins on just one plane about one axis of rotation.  You can't make a ball spin on two axes at the same time.  A large enough ball creates a gravity well, and anything north and south along the axis of rotation gets sucked into the gravity well, there is no couterbalancing force to stop that.  The only place particles get ejected is along the plane of the rotation, and the only place matter doesn't get sucked into the gravity well is where there is enough centripetal accelleration to balance out the gravity, which again is along that plane.  So Galaxies all tend to have these flat disk shapes to them, and the Milky Way which is our Home is typical of this.

It only stands to reason that the most particles our solar system would encounter would be during the time it is placed dead center of the flat disk on a north-south orientation to the central rotation axis of the galaxy.  The day that occurs in this cycle of oscillations is on 12/21/2012, but all during the time you are moving into greater particle density.  What are those particles?  Neutrinos mostly, massless particles unaffected by Gravity with close to unmeasurable effects in the tiny number you usually encounter them, but if they get caught in large numbers striking massive objects, they probably do have some effect.

The other effect of being dead center of the disk is the combined gravitational effects of all the matter in the galaxy.  At the center, all the forces resolve down to a single vector, essentially its everone pulling on the same rope in just one direction.  This could be deforming the earth enough to create heat stress.

Finally there are the magnetic possibilities.  The core of the earth is spinning metal, and creates its own magnetic field as a result.  The Sun silarly has a magnetic field, and then so does the Galaxy above that, because it is also spinning.  The smaller magnets all have to line up with the biggest magnet.  If you move from the northern plane of the big magnet to the southern side of it, the magnetic orientation of the Earth's poles has to flip.  This doesn't mean the whole EARTH flips over, just that all the little magnets inside the core have to flip over.  This could create a LOT of stress in aggregate.  In terms of experimental evidence, the migration of the North Pole is accelerating, up from about 4Km per year to now about 40Km per year.  We know from the geologic record that the Earth flips its magnetic orientation, but the periodicity of this is irregular.



So there are likely some other effects here besides just where you sit in the plane of the big magnet determining whether the orientation flips or not.  However, if we are on the cusp of a "flipping event", then this could be the reason behind core heating.

These are all the possible reasons I can think of to explain the geotectonics we see playing out here.  There may be others as well, but what is undeniable is the EFFECT of more energy releasing quakes and eruptions.  That energy goes somewhere, because of conservation of energy.  Where it goes is into the Heat Sink of the world Oceans.

RE

Quote from: Sensato
Why don't you take these issues up directly with the folks at Skeptical Science?  Or RealClimate.org?

Probably because Triv is more interested in enlightening the readers of TAE on the Climate Change debate.

The Earth has been warmer in the past and cooler, but it has never experience runaway Greenhouse warming like Venus.  The likelihood in my mind is that once it gets warm enough, the Oceans put so much water vapor up into the atmosphere that you get a permanent global cloud cover that reflects out sunlight, reversing the trend and ending up with an Ice Age rather than a positive feedback loop creating Venusian style overheating.

Increasing CO2 in the atmosphere is likely an EFFECT of the core heating of the Earth, not the CAUSE of it.  Core heating would cause clathrates to melt and release from the ocean floor, which likely would swamp the amount of CO2 released through combustion.  Once the cycle plays itself out, that CO2 gradually gets retaken up by new plant life that flourishes once the clouds dissipate and the core heating diminishes.

What is heating the core during these cycles is open to conjecture, but vulcanism and increasing tectonic activity indicate clearly that it is heating up.  The earth is releasing mega joules more energy in quakes and eruptions than it was 20 years ago, all the graphs show that clearly.

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2012/04/02/geotectonic-ocean-heat-transfer-theory/

A few degrees rise in temperature at the core would cause it to swell, pushing apart the surface of the earth atthe weak points, the plate junctions, which would distribute out all the vulcanism and quakes around these areas, and that is exactly the effect we see occurring.  It isn't just Japan getting thousands more quakes now, its the whole Ring of Fire.  The quakes are also bigger on average, and all that energy is going somewhere.  Where it is going is into the big Heat Sink of the world Oceans.

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Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory Revisited
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2012, 02:52:29 AM »
Recent discussion with Gail Tverberg of Our Finite World has brought Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory once again the Front Burner on the Diner Stove.

Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory Revisited now UP on the Diner Blog!

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Offline EndIsNigh

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2012, 03:22:30 AM »
Nice theory RE.  It passes the CFS test for me.  It seems worthwhile investigating further, if it weren't for the Anthropogenic warming group think you mentioned to Gail.  It needn't even be contrary to Anthropogenic warming, it can exist as a parallel contributor.  Though I understand you're saying the geotechtonic effect is greater.

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 03:59:34 AM »
Nice theory RE.  It passes the CFS test for me.  It seems worthwhile investigating further, if it weren't for the Anthropogenic warming group think you mentioned to Gail.  It needn't even be contrary to Anthropogenic warming, it can exist as a parallel contributor.  Though I understand you're saying the geotechtonic effect is greater.

Definitely true, it is NOT contrary to the possibility/likelihood that Fossil Fuel burning and Anthropogenic factors are having some effect here on the Global Climate. Synergistic effects maybe exacerbating the problem immensely, and in that case it certainly behooves us to STOP making our contribution to this problem.

In an ABSOLUTE sense though,the Energies you are talking about here are IMMENSE, as I mentioned what Mother Earth can generate in terms of Energy Dissipation simply DWARFS anything Homo Sapiens can do by many Orders of Magnitude.  Just ONE Earthquake like the Sendai Quake which generated the Tsunami that took down Fuk-U-shima represents Energy about 3 orders of magnitude beyond the Tsar Bomba,the BIGGEST fucking nuclear weaponEVER detonated!!!.  That is a SHITLOAD of ENERGY. It is NOT the only one either. In the last 3 years there were two others near this magnitude in Chile,and I have lost count of the number of7+ quakes now despite the fact I keep my Equake Progarm up and running every day.

If Mother Earth does not Calm Down here soon, we are without doubt TOAST.  Goes a long way toward buttressing the idea GAIA has sentience Herself.  She may be SO PISSED OFF she will show Homo Sapiens who is BOSS here and squash us all like BUGS.

NOBODY MESSES WITH MOTHER NATURE AND GETS AWAY WITH IT. NOBODY.

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Offline agelbert

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 10:33:20 PM »
RE,
I ran into these data points that support your theory. It looks like lots of surprises are coming from below:
Quote
Now it turns out that existing models of the core, for all their drama, may not be dramatic enough. Reporting recently in the journal Nature, Dario Alfè of University College London and his colleagues presented evidence that iron in the outer layers of the core is frittering away heat through the wasteful process called conduction at two to three times the rate of previous estimates.

The theoretical consequences of this discrepancy are far-reaching. The scientists say something else must be going on in Earth’s depths to account for the missing thermal energy in their calculations. They and others offer these possibilities:

¶ The core holds a much bigger stash of radioactive material than anyone had suspected, and its decay is giving off heat.

¶ The iron of the innermost core is solidifying at a startlingly fast clip and releasing the latent heat of crystallization in the process.

¶ The chemical interactions among the iron alloys of the core and the rocky silicates of the overlying mantle are much fiercer and more energetic than previously believed.

¶ Or something novel and bizarre is going on, as yet undetermined.

“From what I can tell, people are excited” by the report, Dr. Alfè said. “They see there might be a new mechanism going on they didn’t think about before.”

Researchers elsewhere have discovered a host of other anomalies and surprises. They’ve found indications that the inner core is rotating slightly faster than the rest of the planet, although geologists disagree on the size of that rotational difference and on how, exactly, the core manages to resist being gravitationally locked to the surrounding mantle.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/science/earths-core-the-enigma-1800-miles-below-us.html?pagewanted=all

Oh shit! RE was right!
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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2012, 01:05:32 AM »
RE,
I ran into these data points that support your theory. It looks like lots of surprises are coming from below:
Quote
¶ Or something novel and bizarre is going on, as yet undetermined.

This is the one I give the  :emthup: to.

Quote
Oh shit! RE was right!

This is one of those times I wish I wasn't RIGHT all the time.  :icon_mrgreen:

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Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer – A Critique (by WHD)
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2012, 04:18:23 AM »
Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer – A Critique now UP on the Diner Blog!

To start this segment of the running debate on the underlying causes of Climate Change, I will say WHD that I tend to agree with you, rather than this making me feel more HOPELESS, it makes me feel a bit more HOPEFULL.

You gotta realize that we are subservient to Nature as a Whole, and while no doubt we can do an awful LOT of damage to Mother Earth, we really are quite small potatoes overall when you talk about the Energies involved in keeping an entire GALAXY stable.  Not a Solar System, a GALAXY.

The kind of energies you talk about with respect to Big Quakes DWARF anything Homo Sapiens has EVER been able to produce out of the best and biggest Bomb Factories EVER built ANYWHEREINCLUDING the Tsar Bomba, which itself was many times as large as the Bombs which vaporized Hiroshima and Nagasaki (those Japs never can catch a break as far as being Victims of major shit, GAIA or Anthropogenic in origin).

Even those energies though are CHUMP CHANGE compared to what it takes to keep the Moon revolving around the Earth, those still less than what it takes for the Earth to revolve around the Sun, and THOSE still less than what it takes to keep the whole fucking SOLAR SYSTEM revolving around the Center of the Milky Way. Every single one of those Jumps represents MANY Orders of Magnitude jump in Energy. Just a .001% Change in Gravimetric stress on a Planet the size of the Earth coming from the Center of the Galaxy could and probably DOES have major effects.  Einstein's General Theory of Relativity notwithstanding, we do not have all that great a grasp on how Gravity and Energy are related on this kind of Scale.  We are talking Big here.  I mean REALLY BIG!

Cycles have been in play on Mother Earth for Millions of Years, we are aware of some of them.  We also know of Periodic Extinctions like the Permian Extinction Event.  These things occur over such LOOONG timespans you can't expect it will actually occur in YOUR Lifetime, that is like winning 3 back to back LOTTOS.  Then again, they do HAPPEN sometime, and when they do occur, there is good evidence to suggest they happen FAST on a Geological timescale when they do.

Much evidence suggests now we are in the midst of an EXTINCTION LEVEL EVENT.  Guy McPherson is convinced this is the case.  Maybe TRUE.

On the other Hand though, even the Permian Extinction did not REALLY Extinguish all Life on Mother Earth, it just REFORMED it. Knocked it down seriously, but Plenty-o-Creatures did survive and then became new and different creatures in the aftermath.

When Toba went Ballistic, all that was left of incipient Homo Sapiens were about 1000 Breeding Pairs.  Somehow, God Only KNOWS how, those folks made it through Their Zero Point.  We have some 7B Homo Sapiens on Mother Earth now, ALL descendants of those SURVIVORS.  We are going to suffer a SEVERE Knockdown here now again, for sure.

By no means however do I believe that there are not 1000 Breeding Pairs on this Planet who CAN make it through this Zero Point either.  It will take a lot of Luck and Ingenuity to make it through, but I think some will.  The ecosphere has yet to collapse so bad that ALL Animal life was extinguished, even in the Permian Extinction.  Homo Sapiens CAN make it through the Zero Point.  Will not be EZ for sure.  Not Many will make it through either for sure.  I   believe that those who DO make it through will be Better People, and they will Build a Better Tomorrow.  No idea really who those people or their descendants are or will be, but I HOPE some of them are DINERS!  Or at least carry the SPIRIT OF THE DINER in their souls.

Only time will tell.  I will not be around to see how it all plays out, neither will you, not from this side of the Great Divide anyhow.  I will however....wait for it...

SEE YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE.
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Offline WHD

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2012, 09:12:58 AM »
Quote
When Toba went Ballistic, all that was left of incipient Homo Sapiens were about 1000 Breeding Pairs.  Somehow, God Only KNOWS how, those folks made it through Their Zero Point.  We have some 7B Homo Sapiens on Mother Earth now, ALL descendants of those SURVIVORS.  We are going to suffer a SEVERE Knockdown here now again, for sure.


Quote
Much evidence suggests now we are in the midst of an EXTINCTION LEVEL EVENT. 

RE,

If a similar event like Toba were to occur in the immediate future, I've no doubt there will be survivors, though it would likely be those who live closest to the earth, rather than the technologically addicted. It won't be the survival of the fittest, of popular, I'm a bigger bad ass dude than you are conception, but the most adaptable in context to whatever nature presents. And as long as we continue to take a survival of the biggest asshole attitude, then there is likely to be a SEVERE knockdown, of natures design or our own, when otherwise we could work together to make this earth a better place for everybody in it. Either way, with climate change, BIG AG is likely to get a whole lot more difficult, and as most people in America at least, think food is spontaneously generated in stores and restaurants, that is likely to be traumatic, when TSHTF. Meanwhile, with collapsing food chains and ecosystems, due to systemic toxicity, a chain reaction collapse could be very bad indeed.

Quote
Even those energies though are CHUMP CHANGE compared to what it takes to keep the Moon revolving around the Earth, those still less than what it takes for the Earth to revolve around the Sun, and THOSE still less than what it takes to keep the whole fucking SOLAR SYSTEM revolving around the Center of the Milky Way. Every single one of those Jumps represents MANY Orders of Magnitude jump in Energy. Just a .001% Change in Gravimetric stress on a Planet the size of the Earth coming from the Center of the Galaxy could and probably DOES have major effects.  Einstein's General Theory of Relativity notwithstanding, we do not have all that great a grasp on how Gravity and Energy are related on this kind of Scale.  We are talking Big here.  I mean REALLY BIG!

And that is an understatement. Compare the internal combustion engine, with say, the engine that keeps 100 billion stars spiralling around the galactic center! We think were so fucking smart, but the ICE is what, like 20% efficient; and the fact is, angular momentum is still a riddle - we don't even know why anything in this universe spins or spirals, and just about EVERTHING does! Except us, with our block headed ways, banging our heads against nature.

Quote
On the other Hand though, even the Permian Extinction did not REALLY Extinguish all Life on Mother Earth, it just REFORMED it. Knocked it down seriously, but Plenty-o-Creatures did survive and then became new and different creatures in the aftermath.

Radical shifts in DNA in times of radical ecological transition. That could get interesting.

 

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