AuthorTopic: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory  (Read 37012 times)

Offline agelbert

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2012, 08:39:40 PM »
WHD,
Great article! :emthup: Fascinating info about the different planets. Those changes on Uranus are huge. For the last few days I have been researching photons, their energy and their wave lengths and I have observed something that "seems" to correlate with  the increase in heat around 1990. I'm working on an article but I may never finish it because there are so many nuances in the science of photon energy transfer. A lot of it is counterintuitive. The layman thinks the more energy a punch has, the harder he gets hit (and he is right, as far as that goes). Energy gets transferred from the fist to his face.  But energy transfer from photons is related to absorption bands on the element that comes in contact with the photon. Triatomic molecules like CO2 and H20 have absorption bans that can suck in low energy UV but the radiate that energy as IR photons. The super high energy photons totally dissociate the O2 and CO2 above the stratosphere (where there is no water vapor) into atoms that cannot radiate the same way as the molecules but, in the process, destroy virtually all the sterilizing UV so it never gets to the stratosphere. That area above the stratosphere gets really hot. Then there is a cooler area followed by another hot area. The weaker UV photons continue down to start the O3 forming process in this second area. In the video where David uses the hair drier on the water analogy, I see he doesn't understand that the ocean is very opaque (albedo of only 2 to 10%) to low energy UV photons (as well as IR photons) because of H2O's absorption bands (more than one band that can take in UV and IR photon energy). This water then irradiates IR photons due this physics law:
Quote
   In 1900 Max Planck (1858-1947) combined the formulae of Wien and Rayleigh describing the distribution of energy as a function of wavelength of the radiation in a cavity at temperature T, to arrive at what is now known as Planck’s radiation curve.
.

The point is that radiative high energy is NOT converted to some other kind of energy like heat IR unless the wavelength of the receiving body is in the absorption band. If it isn't, the photon is reflected and that is considered high albedo just like when a mirror reflects light without getting hot. I know this stuff is complicated but I found an interesting example in the photoelectric effect. A photon in the right absorption band of a PV panel knocks an electron away thereby generating current. BUT, that's no all that happens. A UV photon will hit and be emitted as two or more IR photons. I find that significant because if MORE UV is making it down here, there is a multiplier effect on IR photons because the emission is not one to one.

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud but the opening of the ozone hole matches the increase in temperature of the oceans and atmosphere in 1990 rather well. It doesn't explain the increased earthquakes or other solar system warming effects so I'll just file it all away for a while.
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Offline WHD

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2012, 09:31:40 PM »
Quote
Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud but the opening of the ozone hole matches the increase in temperature of the oceans and atmosphere in 1990 rather well.

agelbert,

I followed your argument on the photons, as far as I could, but without some corresponding, profound change in the photon output of the sun, I don't see how it would contribute to the changes we see, measurably, unless perhaps the holes in the ozone and in the magnetosphere we have seen in that same time frame, have contributed. Could the weakening of the magnetosphere, as well as the ozone, be related to the weakening of the heliosphere? But that is sort of circular, in respect to photons, because if the heliosphere is weakening, as much as 25% in 50 years (which is astounding) wouldn't that mean the photon output is weakened as well? But then, they say the magnetosphere of both Mercury and Jupiter are expanding. 

Perhaps the cause of the the cause of the changes is coming from outside the heliosphere?  But we have no satisfactory explanation as yet about the weakening of the heliosphere, at all.   :-\

Suffice to say, the changes are multifaceted.

Thanks for the  :emthup:.  I can say the same about most everything I've seen from you. I'm working on translating your pieces. You have an expansive noggin.

Offline agelbert

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2012, 12:33:17 AM »
WHD,
Thanks again.  :icon_sunny:
Every heavenly body radiates at a certain temperature. The Earth radiates energy away at the same rate as it is received from the Sun. The Earth’s emission temperature is 255K; that of the Sun, 6000K. The outgoing terrestrial radiation peaks in the infrared; the incoming solar radiation peaks at shorter wavelengths, in the visible. That means when the ocean, land or air sheds heat on Earth it is going to do it in IR photons. I am simply observing that the atmosphere is now leaking more incoming UV photons, multiplying the IR photons trying to get out to space which cannot do so. They then bounce back into the absorption bands in H2O and CO2 in the ocean as well as the air. Like you said, there are other factors but conduction of heat from the air mass to the ocean was never one of them. Radiation and conduction are different. At any rate, the massive energy in earthquakes, due to the gigantic wave lengths involved in propagation,
Quote
P-waves—The fastest waves, these compress or stretch the rock in their path through Earth, moving at about 4 mi (6.4 km) per second.
 S-waves—As they move through Earth, these waves shift the rock in their path up and down and side to side, moving at about 2 mi (3.2 km) per second.
 Rayleigh waves and Love waves—These two types of "surface waves" are named after seismologists. Moving at less than 2 mi (3.2 km) per second, they lag behind P-waves and S-waves but cause the most damage.
Rayleigh waves cause the ground surface in their path to ripple with little waves.
Love waves move in a zigzag along the ground and can wrench buildings from side to side.
do not translate into IR photons because there are no absorption bands in the elements being shook violently (but extremely slowly compared with photon wave lengths) to receive them so these vibrations, in and of themselves, should not cause heat build up. However, conduction from undersea volcanoes would do so. The problem with that is that I looked it up (see my back and forth with RE) and the official word is that they are not adding appreciably to the oceanic heat load. That's when I learned two thirds of terrestrial volcanoes are in the northern hemisphere.

That heliosphere business is a real head scratcher. I frankly do not have any idea what sort of energy change that translates to. Is it some force outside compressing it and, in a conventional physics view, does that mean the heat inside the heliosphere has less space and is therefore providing more heat per cubic meter? That would fit the solar system warming scenario but who knows? :icon_scratch: As a kid, when I first saw a comparison of the size of the sun to the earth, I was gobsmacked that something could be that big. I asked my grade school scence teacher why it got colder when you went up if you were getting closer to the sun.  :icon_mrgreen: When you talk of the heliosphere, I have a lot of trouble getting my head wrapped around the concept even though I have no difficulty picturing galaxies with millions of stars. It's a big neighborhood.
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Online RE

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Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory: Antarctic Scientists Scratch Heads
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2012, 11:19:16 PM »
From the article below:

Quote
Rapid increased warming in this region and throughout the globe has clearly left scientists scratching their heads for answers, but given the current political environment in the West and East, many scientists are reluctant to limit their research in areas that produced present day global warming theories.

Not a whole lot of Data in this report, but some key points.  First there is a longer trend warming cycle that started around 600 years ago, which predates the Industrial Revolution.  Second, the Ice sheet breakups have been occuring mainly from the 1990s forward, precisely the time you see the increased earthquake activity increase in DLindquists graphs.  Polar regions seem to be experiencing a FASTER warming trend than middle latitudes, but the mid latitudes are where most of the Industrialization and Greenhouse Gases get emitted.  Why would the Poles Heat Up faster?  I have an answer for this based on GOHTT, can anybody guess why the Poles are heating faster based on the theory?

The "Scientists" are Scratching their Heads Balls here? :WTF:

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Antarctic Peninsula Team of Polar Scientists Add New Dimension To Climate Change

Most people are unaware that the first sighting of the Antarctic Peninsula occurred in 1820, most likely during a Russian Imperial Navy expedition captained by Thaddeus von Bellinghausen. Since its discovery, the Peninsula has served the scientific community as a research platform toward gaining a better understanding of earth’s history and global climate change.  This week a team of polar scientists from Britain, Australia and France published results of their work, adding a new dimension to our understanding of Antarctic Peninsula climate change and the likely causes of the break-up of its ice shelves.
 
The first comprehensive reconstruction of a 15,000 year climate history from an ice core collected from James Ross Island in the Antarctic Peninsula region is reported this week in the journal Nature. The scientists reveal that the rapid warming of this region over the last 100 years has been unusual and came on top of a slower, natural climate warming that began around 600 years ago. These centuries of continual warming meant that by the time the unusual recent warming began, the Antarctic Peninsula ice shelves were already poised for the dramatic break-ups observed from the 1990’s onward.
 
The Antarctic Peninsula is one of the fastest warming places on Earth, the average temperatures from meteorological stations near James Ross Island having risen by nearly 2°C in the past 50 years.
 
Lead author Dr Robert Mulvaney OBE, from British Antarctic Survey (BAS) says, “This is a really interesting result. One of the key questions that scientists are attempting to answer is how much of the Earth’s recently observed warming is due to natural climate variation and how much can be attributed to human activity since the industrial revolution. The only way we can do this is by looking back through time when the Earth experienced ice ages and warm periods, and ice cores are a very good method for doing this.”
 
Dr Mulvaney continues, “We know that something unusual is happening in the Antarctic Peninsula. To find out more, we mounted a scientific expedition to collect an ice core from James Ross Island — on the northernmost tip of the Peninsula. Within the 364m long core are layers of snow that fell every year for the last 50,000 years. Sophisticated chemical analysis — at BAS and the NERC Isotope Geosciences Laboratory (part of British Geological Survey) — was used to re-create a temperature record over this period.
 
“For this study we looked in detail at the last 15,000 years — from the time when the Earth emerged from the last ice age and entered into the current warm period. What we see in the ice core temperature record is that the Antarctic Peninsula warmed by about 6°C as it emerged from the last ice age. By 11,000 years ago the temperature had risen to about 1.3°C warmer than today’s average and other research indicates that the Antarctic Peninsula ice sheet was shrinking at this time and some of the surrounding ice shelves retreated. The local climate then cooled in two stages, reaching a minimum about 600 years ago. The ice shelves on the northern Antarctic Peninsula expanded during this cooling. Approximately 600 years ago the local temperature started to warm again, followed by a more rapid warming in the last 50–100 years that coincides with present-day disintegration of ice shelves and glacier retreat.”
 
Co-Author Dr Nerilie Abram formerly from British Antarctic Survey and now with the Research School of Earth Sciences, at The Australian National University says, “The centuries of ongoing warming have meant that marginal ice shelves on the northern Peninsula were poised for the succession of collapses that we have witnessed over the last two decades. And if this rapid warming that we are now seeing continues, we can expect that ice shelves further south along the Peninsula that have been stable for thousands of years will also become vulnerable.” Olivier Alemany, from the French Laboratoire de Glaciologie et Géophysique de l’Environnement was part of the expedition. He says, “The international polar science community has collected and analysed ice cores from Antarctica and Greenland as part of an effort to reconstruct the Earth’s past climate and atmosphere. Our team wanted to understand how the recent warming and the loss of ice shelves compared to the longer term climate trends in the region.”
 
Though this research makes a significant contribution to the understanding of the role that Antarctica’s ice sheets play in influencing future climate and sea-level rise it presently does not answer why. Rapid increased warming in this region and throughout the globe has clearly left scientists scratching their heads for answers, but given the current political environment in the West and East, many scientists are reluctant to limit their research in areas that produced present day global warming theories.
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Offline JoeP

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2013, 05:49:12 PM »

Greenland - The Contribution Of Heat Flow From the Mantle
 
just my straight shooting honest opinion

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2013, 12:50:02 AM »

Greenland - The Contribution Of Heat Flow From the Mantle

Looks like the Scientific Community is starting to look at this issue.

It would be really good if they had a record of the heat dispersal below the Greenland Ice Sheet going back 20 years or so, but they probably did not have sensors down there then.

My bet is if they did have sensors, they would show a steady increase in heat dispersal beneath the ice sheet.  That would be consistent with the rest of the data.

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Offline Snowleopard

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory - Huge extinct undersea volcano found
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2013, 06:29:59 PM »
Could there be another of this type of volcano under the artic, still erratically active??  If so, it would explain the anomalous variance in artic sea ice melt. 

Perhaps there are several more worldwide?  If so, that would give RE's theory a boost.  Is anyone looking for them?



Largest Volcano on Earth Lurks Beneath Pacific Ocean

 

The world's largest volcano lurks beneath the Pacific Ocean, researchers announced today (Sept. 5) in the journal Nature Geoscience.
 
Called the Tamu Massif, the enormous mound dwarfs the previous record holder, Hawaii's Mauna Loa, and is only 25 percent smaller than Olympus Mons on Mars, the biggest volcano in Earth's solar system, said William Sager, lead study author and a geologist at the University of Houston.
 
"We think this is a class of volcano that hasn't been recognized before," Sager said. "The slopes are very shallow. If you were standing on this thing, you would have a difficult time telling which way was downhill."


Tamu is 400 miles (650 kilometers) wide but only about 2.5 miles (4 km) tall. It erupted for a few million years during the early Cretaceous period, about 144 million years ago, and has been extinct since then, the researchers report. [50 Amazing Volcano Facts]
 
Explaining ocean plateaus
 
Like other massive volcanoes, Tamu Massif seems to have a central cone that spewed lava down its broad, gentle slopes. The evidence comes from seismic surveys and lava samples painstakingly collected over several years of surveys by research ships. The seismic waves show lava flows dipping away from the summit of the volcano. There appears to be a series of calderas at the summit, similar in shape to the elongated and merged craters atop Mauna Loa, Sager said.
 
Until now, geologists thought Tamu Massif was simply part of an oceanic plateau called Shatsky Rise in the northwest Pacific Ocean. Oceanic plateaus are massive piles of lava whose origins are still a matter of active scientific debate. Some researchers think plumes of magma from deep in the mantle punch through the crust, flooding the surface with lava. Others suggest pre-existing weaknesses in the crust, such as tectonic-plate boundaries, provide passageways for magma from the mantle, the layer beneath the crust. Shatsky Rise formed atop a triple junction, where three plates pulled apart.
 
 
Tamu Massif's new status as a single volcano could help constrain models of how oceanic plateaus form, Sager said. "For anyone who wants to explain oceanic plateaus, we have new constraints," he told LiveScience. "They have to be able to explain this volcano forming in one spot and deliver this kind of magma supply in a short time."
 
Geochemist David Peate of the University of Iowa, who was not involved in the study, said he looks forward to new models explaining the pulses of magma that built Shatsky Rise. Tamu Massif is the biggest and oldest volcano, and the cones grow smaller and younger to the northeast of Tamu. Sager and his colleagues suggest that pulses of magma created the volcanic trail.
 
"It seems that in many oceanic plateaus the melting is continuous, but here you have a big shield volcano," Peate told LiveScience. "Understanding the source of the volume of that magma, the rate of production of the magma and the time interval between those pulses will help give better constraints to feed into those models," he said.
 
Sager said other, bigger volcanoes could be awaiting discovery at other oceanic plateaus, such as Ontong Java Plateau, located north of the Solomon Islands in the southwest Pacific Ocean. "Structures that are under the ocean are really hard to study," he said.

Floating volcano
 
Oceanic plateaus are the biggest piles of lava on Earth. The outpourings have been linked to mass extinctions and climate change. The volume of Tamu Massif alone is about 600,000 cubic miles (2.5 million cubic km). The entire volcano is bigger than the British Isles or New Mexico.
 
Despite Tamu's huge size, the ship surveys showed little evidence the volcano's top ever poked above the sea. The world's biggest volcano has been hidden because it sits on thin oceanic crust (or lithosphere), which can't support its weight. Its top is about 6,500 feet (1,980 meters) below the ocean surface today.
 
"In the case of Shatsky Rise, it formed on virtually zero thickness lithosphere, so it's in isostatic balance," Sager said. "It's basically floating all the time, so the bulk of Tamu Massif is down in the mantle. The Hawaiian volcanoes erupted onto thick lithosphere, so it's like they have a raft to hold on to. They get up on top and push it down. And with Olympus Mons, it's like it formed on a two-by-four."
 
Sager and his colleagues have studied Shatsky Rise for decades, seeking to solve the puzzle of oceanic plateaus. About 20 years ago, they named Tamu Massif after Texas A&M University, Sager's former employer, he said.
 
**************************************************************************************************

Author Bio:   Becky Oskin
 Becky was a science reporter at The Pasadena Star-News. She has freelanced for New Scientist and the American Institute of Physics and interned at Discovery News. She earned a master's degree in geology from Caltech, a bachelor's degree from Washington State University, and a graduate certificate in science writing from the University of California, Santa Cruz. To find out what her latest project is, you can follow Becky on Google+.

Source (includes maps):

http://www.livescience.com/39447-biggest-volcano-earth-found.html

RELATED VIDEO  (could not get embed code to work):

http://www.livescience.com/39472-world-s-biggest-volcano-lies-beneath-pacific-ocean.html


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Online RE

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Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory: Volcanic Evidence
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2014, 05:50:55 AM »
I've been debating Climate Change with the Deniers over on TBP and Googled up this graph on increasing Vulcanism:


Definite evidence the Earth Core is Heating Up!

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Offline azozeo

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2014, 06:32:55 PM »
Gold Star on your forehead today RE  :icon_sunny:
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline azozeo

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2014, 04:32:29 AM »
2014-12-08 - Mount Erebus erupts six times in Antarctica:
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/site/index.php?pageid=event_desc&edis_id=VA-20141208-46257-ATA

Quote: "There is no knowing if this will continue or was just a one off. It does show that gas is accumulating somewhere at depth and migrates to the lava lake as a big bubble where it bursts explosively sending volcanic bombs shooting above the lava lake and sometimes out onto the crater rim where people may be working."
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline azozeo

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2014, 03:52:40 PM »
Hot off the presses. Fresh data from NASA regarding
rapid changes in polar motion

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/k6Jyb2I0584&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/k6Jyb2I0584&fs=1</a>
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Offline azozeo

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2014, 02:35:01 AM »
2014-12-16 - Greenland ice sheet may be melting faster than once thought possible:
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/greenland-ice-sheet-could-be-melting-faster-than-thought-possible-9926771.html

Note: And as that mass moves to the oceans, where the plates are thinnest, we'll see more oceanic and coastal earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, as prediced by MISA Theory in 2010 and corroborated by one of the finest geology teams on the planet two years later. The quakes will shake up the methane clathrates and hasten the release of methane, and the volcanic eruptions will melt the clathrates and heat the waters, enhancing the habitat for the ancient anaerobic bacteria and archaea that emit hydrogen sulfide, and so on - a self-reinforcing feedback loop that is not only unstoppable but also unsurvivable, at least on the surface of the Earth. 2013 was already the record-setting year in recorded history in terms of number of volcanic eruptions, but we'll see many more as the escalation intensifies, possibly involving villages, towns or cities being destroyed...
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world.
You don’t know what it is but its there, like a splinter in your mind

Online RE

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2014, 03:23:57 AM »
2013 was already the record-setting year in recorded history in terms of number of volcanic eruptions, but we'll see many more as the escalation intensifies, possibly involving villages, towns or cities being destroyed...

Well since I live SMACK DAB on the RING OF FIRE, maybe I will get to go out Pompeii Style!  That is a classy exit to the Great Beyond!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/F90Cw4l-8NY?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/F90Cw4l-8NY?feature=player_detailpage</a>


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Offline JRM

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2014, 11:59:27 AM »
I've only skimmed a little of the various writings in here on "Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory".

But I did look up the name for the thing on search engines, and I can see that it is unique to RE of the DD, at least by this name. So it's premature to call it a theory.

I'm willing to entertain the hypothesis as a legitimate scientific hypothesis.  But we'd have to walk through it very soberly and examine some basic questions very carefully.

I don't want to invest too much of my precious time prior to knowing certain things, such as ...

If this hypothesis is strong and has much merit, why does the scientific community not discuss it? Or, if in fact it does discuss it, where?
My "avatar" graphic is Japanese calligraphy (shodō) forming the word shoshin, meaning "beginner's mind". --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin -- It is with shoshin that I am now and always "meeting my breath" for the first time. Try it!

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Re: Geotectonic Ocean Heat Transfer Theory
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2014, 12:57:58 PM »

If this hypothesis is strong and has much merit, why does the scientific community not discuss it? Or, if in fact it does discuss it, where?

Because it is cross disciplinary.  Also because too much is invested in the opposite theory that the atmosphere is warming the oceans, rather than the other way round.

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