AuthorTopic: Zombie Rehab  (Read 47421 times)

Offline DoomerSupport

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Re: GM and LD said
« Reply #285 on: June 25, 2013, 08:27:36 PM »
Frankly, the term is deliberately derogatory, cardboard and two dimensional. It's a name calling propaganda exercise. For that reason alone, I don't think it adequately defines the populace who are victimized, willingly or unwillingly, by the matrix.

My take: 

When the shit hits the fan, certain decision makers want the organizations below them to be the whipping boys.  When the government can no longer provide the largess to pay of all the special interests at the bottom of the spectrum - people living on "welfare" and "entitlements" - then why not make the people who worked in the distribution system (public employees) the "bad guys".   

While the desperate and scared population angrily storms the social security and welfare offices, those with the means (money opens doors and buys passage) to migrate elsewhere will do so with little interference.


Quote

But your anger at the cogs in the matrix is, IMHO, misplaced. Your promise to ostracise them just as they ostracized you is based on anger at rejection, not the recognition of the ocean of propaganda they live in.

A good point.  Be prepared to evaluate everyone's skills, not just your own.  Make sure you, and everyone you love, has a post-collapse resume, or you have one for them.

I'm not just talking about when they come to the doomstead, knowing what they can do.  If we go though a major down-step in our living arrangements (a "fast crash" scenario) then everything they have based their sense of self will be gone.  Who are they, when the labels of twenty-first century, infinite growth, the future-is-bright culture no longer apply?  I doubt very much they will know.

We know there will be a lot of suicides if we have such a fast crash.  Being able to help those you love redefine themselves in a way that is relevant to the world that is emerging, may just save a few of them.

if they have nothing to offer a post-collapse world, then I'm sorry, but the prognosis is terminal.  Just like you would take the news of a fatal illness in that person, face the stages of grief for the loss of that person now, and those emotions won't paralyze you when the shit is hitting the fan.   

Who knows, maybe alternative therapies can work. You could take them hunting or fishing, maybe a connection to nature may stimulate some zest for life.  They don't need to know that a skill has post-collapse uses for them to take up a hobby, if you can nudge them in that direction.



Quote
Do you think I'm wrong? Tell me, why do you think last year MORE PEOPLE in the USA died of SUICIDE than car accidents? Air Bags or people being trashed by the MATRIX?  :icon_scratch:

Who do you know who that will likely take the easy way out if TSHTF tomorrow?  Spend a day walking around with that thought in the back of your head, evaluating everyone you meet.


Quote
Our PEERS in the matrix cog are WRONG. It is our job to survive the matrix. But it is also our job not give those in the matrix the finger.

It's bad for our health.  :icon_mrgreen:  Rather, we should work to, with a smile on our face of course, let them know the SCORE without hyperbole and with all our powers of persuasion.


I've been advocating "appearing as part of the system" from day one.  The current system is setup to allow resources to be directed to controlling parties.  Learn the system and play it until it fails. Only be prepared to lose a wooden shoe or two along the way.   :P


Quote
They say everything will work out. You say, sure it will, IF this, that and the other happens.

Ask them if they see evidence of this, that and the other happening or the EXACT reverse.  :icon_scratch:

Then if they remind you half time is over, you just smile and say, IT SURE IS. Let me know when you REALLY want to play ball.  ;)

I had that discussion with one of my staff today.  He started it.  Lol. 

He expressed concern regarding the political stasis in society.  I pointed out how it was going to go - downhill - and why.  I could tell he rejected this information on an emotional level and I was losing rapport.  So I recited some of the myths of American exceptionalism under the guise of "factors that made me move here" to re-establish rapport.  I ended the conversation with the usual, "it may get tough but we'll get thought it, we always do."   

Appeal to what "everyone" knows we losing - specifically values we are losing that they value the most.  Use the most ridiculous PC news story, as a "what is society coming to?!?!" story when gaining rapport with "conservatives", or the flip side when talking to progressives. People interpret the world through stories, so use a quick emotional point of connection that is linked with the downward spiral of society.  it's way, way more effective than changing the subject to "how's the local sports team doing?".

You can be the person who's saying it's all going to shit, if you agree that part of the cause for collapse is a cause they vehemently dislike.

If you want to help the maximize the number of people prepared to face the coming storm, you talk their language.  You're helping them prepare to get through the chaos those terrible liberals/conservatives (please select according to audience) will unleash on society with their madness.

 ;)



Offline agelbert

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Haniel said
« Reply #286 on: June 25, 2013, 09:32:53 PM »
for your wise advice. It's the best we can do. :emthup: :icon_sunny:
Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline agelbert

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RE said
« Reply #287 on: June 25, 2013, 09:47:19 PM »
Quote

Quote

Well my friend, there are over 450 100 people and 350 Bots in the Doomstead Diner. I wager that over 80% are "keeeping a low profile" about the matrix as a way of avoiding ostracism. Are they zombies?   :icon_scratch:

Fixed that for you.  :icon_mrgreen:

RE

JC is never going to deliver that case of Samuel Adams to you with those numbers! :icon_mrgreen:

Now that is REALLY depressing. :jawdrop:  :crying:   
Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline RE

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Re: RE said
« Reply #288 on: June 25, 2013, 09:53:01 PM »
Quote

Quote

Well my friend, there are over 450 100 people and 350 Bots in the Doomstead Diner. I wager that over 80% are "keeeping a low profile" about the matrix as a way of avoiding ostracism. Are they zombies?   :icon_scratch:

Fixed that for you.  :icon_mrgreen:

RE

JC is never going to deliver that case of Samuel Adams to you with those numbers! :icon_mrgreen:

Now that is REALLY depressing. :jawdrop:  :crying:

Just a guesstimate based on the Podcast Numbers.

Fairly regular Guest Readership that occassionally drops in for a Read is likely a good deal more, 1000-2000 might be a good guess there.

I think the Podcasts will help gain a few more Sentient Souls in the Membership Numbers.  :icon_sunny:

RE
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Offline BC2K

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Re: GM and LD said
« Reply #289 on: June 25, 2013, 11:19:17 PM »
In the modern world, you define the battlefield, not the weapons, if you want to win.

...but the battlefield is defined by the weapons, and it changes constantly

- having been a "sniper" all my life, the .50 BMG and it's smaller cousins the 30-06 & .308 are the weapons of choice in my arsenal


Hesse-Vulcan .50 BMG precision target rifle
1000 yards is enough for me - I never liked close-in fighting  ;D

On the doomstead it's "one shot - one kill" anything else is a waste of precious ammo !

« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 07:33:23 AM by BC2K »
You can't prepare for a crisis when you are in the middle of it.

Offline RE

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Re: Zombie Rehab
« Reply #290 on: June 25, 2013, 11:32:29 PM »
Personally, I look forward to the day the Ammo Runs Out and we get back to Sling, Atl-Atl, Bow and Cross Bow.

You'll never have the Kill at a Distance Range as .50 Cal BMG with these methods, but the main thing here is to practice so you are accurate 10 yards further out than your opponent.

Level Playing Field is all I ask for.  WE GOT THE NUMBERS.  When the Death From Above goes the way of the Dinosaur, the Illuminati are TOAST!



RE
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Offline BC2K

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Re: Zombie Rehab
« Reply #291 on: June 25, 2013, 11:52:46 PM »
...jeez - Adam Weishaupt was a good guy ! ... what a waste of a good label...

I wish they would spell it "Illuminaughty"  or something else ;D

...and, yes, eventually they may die off (from starvation) - so hiding with your hoard and simply waiting would pay off too !

If you haven't been to the deep Maine woods, there are areas where even an injun hadn't planted foot in 150 years...

http://www.policymic.com/articles/34101/maine-hermit-why-christopher-knight-abandoned-society-for-27-years
You can't prepare for a crisis when you are in the middle of it.

Offline Surly1

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Re: Zombie Rehab
« Reply #292 on: June 26, 2013, 03:41:35 AM »

If you haven't been to the deep Maine woods, there are areas where even an injun hadn't planted foot in 150 years...

http://www.policymic.com/articles/34101/maine-hermit-why-christopher-knight-abandoned-society-for-27-years

That is one terrific article.
ďThe old world is dying, and the New World struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.Ē

Offline agelbert

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BC2K said
« Reply #293 on: June 26, 2013, 11:02:18 AM »
Quote
I wish they would spell it "Illuminaughty" or something else ;D

Good One! :emthup:  :icon_mrgreen:
Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline RE

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Zombie Snakeín a Box
« Reply #294 on: June 28, 2013, 05:04:21 PM »
Part II of the Zombie Rehab series, Zombie Snakeín a Box by Diner Mod Lucid Dreams now UP on the Diner Blog!

Hoping for Part III & Part IV from Agelbert & Ashvin.   :icon_sunny:

RE
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 05:06:20 PM by RE »
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Offline Ashvin

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Re: Zombie Rehab
« Reply #295 on: June 28, 2013, 05:59:47 PM »
Quote
Naturally the discussion about killing zombies ended up in the realm of religion. ďMan does not live by bread alone,Ē inevitably came up. True, man doesnít live by bread alone, but he canít live without it either. He will die without the bread, and the zombies want his bread, so whatís man to do? Especially a man with children and a wife to keep alive. Recently Iíve had cause to reflect on the action of killing due to participating in some killiní myself. Basically, best I can tell, life requires death. This is true all the way to the level of virus (which arenít technically considered living organisms). In order for the virus to replicate cells must die. Seems the only life forms that donít directly require death are plants and autotrophs. The rest of us need shit to die in order for us to live. To illustrate my point, Iím going to use an anecdote from my recent life.

I think there is still great misunderstanding here. Let me put it this way... if I had to make an educated guess about what AG believes (and what I have endorsed), based on the comments on this thread, I would say he agrees with the following:

-Death is an inevitable consequence of life in this world, as LD also points out. In fact, the Bible says the only path to true life is through death.

"For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin--" (Romans 6:6)

-There are benefits to killing/death in nature - for ex., without predatory behavior, there would be overpopulation and ecological imbalance that ultimately results in more death/suffering for the prey than would occur with predatory behavior.

-Not all human killings are bad or wrong. Personally, I believe there have been justified cases of state execution and war, and I think AG would also agree in theory.

-Similarly, deadly force CAN be justified in cases of self-defense and defending others from deadly force, even people not related to you and people you don't know at all!

HOWEVER, most of these things are very fact-specific and broad comparisons simply do not work. Humans cannot be compared to any other animals on this issue. Broad classifications and equivalencies go beyond the reality of necessary killing/death, and go into the realm of philosophy, morality and ultimate ethical realities. Human beings have a reflexive self-awareness and capacity for abstract thought that make us unique, but when we fail to be prudent, to be critically aware of our surroundings and our nature as human beings, and to strive for a selfless mindset, our unique qualities also allow us to devolve into paranoia, bigotry, racism, hyper-nationalism, etc.

If it is possible to sum up this issue in a single sentence, my main objection here, and what I understood as AG's objection, was that this thread was not at all considerate of or receptive to these moral nuances and these ethical boundaries that MUST be stressed at all times, and especially in times of potential economic, political, social upheaval.

Offline agelbert

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Re: Zombie Rehab
« Reply #296 on: June 28, 2013, 06:40:51 PM »
Ashvin,
Agreed on all points.

As a Christian, one my early struggles was with a thought experiment that seemed like a hopeless paradox UNTIL I understood the MO of the Holy Spirit better. So, I'm basically going off the deep end here  :icon_mrgreen: simply because those that DON'T believe in the existence and guidance of the Holy Spirit in human activity (especially in dangerous or otherwise stressful situations) will claim I have a rather convenient escape clause to cover "unusual behavior" by claiming I was guided by God's Holy Spirit. ::)

My initial quandary was this. I am a Christian and if I die in the state of grace, I'll go to Heaven.

But here comes a criminal low life and tries to knife me.  :o

I pull out a gun and point it at the criminal but he keeps coming. I assume, since he is attacking me for no reason, that he is NOT SAVED. That means, if I pull the trigger to save my life, I probably am condemning someone to eternal damnation.

So, am I supposed to let this human kill me so he will get a further chance to be saved while I go to heaven?

Tough call.

I was once at an ATM machine getting $300 out. An individual I was totally unaware of was rapidly approaching behind me. This was a shopping center parking lot that was empty at the time (late afternoon on a holiday). I got the money and, rather than open my wallet and put the money in as was my wont, I contorted my face in a scowl, whipped around to squarely face this guy with a fierce look on my face and the money in my hand. My action gave him pause and he stopped about three steps away. He said, "You've got a lot of money". I answered, "AND IT'S MY MONEY!".:angry5:


He turned and walked away. I waited for him to be gone, put the money in my wallet, got in my car a ways off and drove away.

I had NO IDEA THAT GUY WAS THERE OR WHY I WAS TURNING AROUND RAPIDLY IN AN ANGRY FASHION. However, had I not done so, I'm certain I would have been mugged for $300.

It was the Holy Spirit. Non-believers will scoff. Others will say I'm just psychic and responded to a threat my eyes didn't register. I have no martial arts training. I don't even like to confront people. That wasn't ME.

But it worked. Praise God.  :icon_sunny:

If I have a kill or be killed situation, I'm certain the Holy Spirit will guide my decision. It really is a matter of Faith.
Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline luciddreams

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Re: Zombie Rehab
« Reply #297 on: June 28, 2013, 08:44:07 PM »


If I have a kill or be killed situation, I'm certain the Holy Spirit will guide my decision. It really is a matter of Faith.

that's why I like you Agelbert...

that's faith...

we all have it in something be it non-god or god...or even goddess perhaps

the point is faith...not logic :emthup:

 :laugh:

Offline WHD

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Re: Zombie Rehab
« Reply #298 on: June 28, 2013, 08:50:42 PM »
Ashvin,
Agreed on all points.

As a Christian, one my early struggles was with a thought experiment that seemed like a hopeless paradox UNTIL I understood the MO of the Holy Spirit better. So, I'm basically going off the deep end here  :icon_mrgreen: simply because those that DON'T believe in the existence and guidance of the Holy Spirit in human activity (especially in dangerous or otherwise stressful situations) will claim I have a rather convenient escape clause to cover "unusual behavior" by claiming I was guided by God's Holy Spirit. ::)

My initial quandary was this. I am a Christian and if I die in the state of grace, I'll go to Heaven.

But here comes a criminal low life and tries to knife me.  :o

I pull out a gun and point it at the criminal but he keeps coming. I assume, since he is attacking me for no reason, that he is NOT SAVED. That means, if I pull the trigger to save my life, I probably am condemning someone to eternal damnation.

So, am I supposed to let this human kill me so he will get a further chance to be saved while I go to heaven?

Tough call.

I was once at an ATM machine getting $300 out. An individual I was totally unaware of was rapidly approaching behind me. This was a shopping center parking lot that was empty at the time (late afternoon on a holiday). I got the money and, rather than open my wallet and put the money in as was my wont, I contorted my face in a scowl, whipped around to squarely face this guy with a fierce look on my face and the money in my hand. My action gave him pause and he stopped about three steps away. He said, "You've got a lot of money". I answered, "AND IT'S MY MONEY!".:angry5:


He turned and walked away. I waited for him to be gone, put the money in my wallet, got in my car a ways off and drove away.

I had NO IDEA THAT GUY WAS THERE OR WHY I WAS TURNING AROUND RAPIDLY IN AN ANGRY FASHION. However, had I not done so, I'm certain I would have been mugged for $300.

It was the Holy Spirit. Non-believers will scoff. Others will say I'm just psychic and responded to a threat my eyes didn't register. I have no martial arts training. I don't even like to confront people. That wasn't ME.

But it worked. Praise God.  :icon_sunny:

If I have a kill or be killed situation, I'm certain the Holy Spirit will guide my decision. It really is a matter of Faith.

I won't argue necessarily about the Holy Spirit, but I will say nice instinctual move. Got a bit of animal left in you.  :icon_mrgreen: :cwmddd:


Offline RE

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Re: Zombie Rehab
« Reply #299 on: June 28, 2013, 08:53:39 PM »
Try skidding off the Glenn Highway at 60MPH and come out unscathed, without so much as a scratch to the SUV.  That just can't happen under normal parameters.  There is definitely something going on behind the curtain.

RE
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