AuthorTopic: Edward Snowden: American Patriot  (Read 14477 times)

Offline RE

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2013, 03:57:23 PM »

Is there anyway that the entire Snowden thing is made up like the Boston Marathon bombers were?  Has this question been asked?  Cause it smells like it to me.  I remember hearing about that NSA city they were building in the desert around a year ago it seems...either way it was a while ago.  WTF did the American people think they were building an NSA city for in the desert?  To fuckin' research how to bake cookies? 

At any rate...if Snowden is indeed a real case than I applaud him.  He is a true American Super Hero IMO.  Fuck the machine and it's endless destruction.  Burn that mother fucker down to the ground.  Lets build a Neo America where we're concerned about symbiosis with the natural world and not iphones and idiots runnin' around bashing into one another on account of a pigskin.  Hide in plain sight.  Like a fox.   O0

I think ES is the real deal.  Like Julian Assange, there are too many Politicos out to get him for this to be a Psy-Ops fabrication, IMHO.  It has to encourage more Whistle Blowers if he can make his Escape and not get sent to GITMO.

I'm wondering how he will get from Moscow to Ecuador without flying through some country that has an extradition treaty with the FSoA and getting yanked off the plane while it is refueling?  He needs to fly under an Alias.  Maybe Putin will issue him a Ruskie Passport under a new Identity?  That would be a piece of cake for the KGB.

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Offline luciddreams

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2013, 05:39:44 PM »
I think ES is the real deal.  Like Julian Assange, there are too many Politicos out to get him for this to be a Psy-Ops fabrication, IMHO.  It has to encourage more Whistle Blowers if he can make his Escape and not get sent to GITMO.

I'm wondering how he will get from Moscow to Ecuador without flying through some country that has an extradition treaty with the FSoA and getting yanked off the plane while it is refueling?  He needs to fly under an Alias.  Maybe Putin will issue him a Ruskie Passport under a new Identity?  That would be a piece of cake for the KGB.

RE

I just don't understand WTF?  The information about what NSA was doing in the desert was widely known and no secret.  So why did the press even pick it up? 

Offline RE

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2013, 05:52:30 PM »

I just don't understand WTF?  The information about what NSA was doing in the desert was widely known and no secret.  So why did the press even pick it up?

Even though EVERYBODY KNOWS the NSA SPIES on everybody, it is just RUMOUR and not DOCUMENTED.  The difference here is ES documented it and made it PUBLIC.  He's FINGERING people and the system in general.  Making it Clear and providing EVIDENCE.

The only way I see it as a set-up is if there is one Faction of the Illuminati looking to bring down another faction, and ES is their Point Man and/or Fall Guy.  Either way, by bringing this stuff to light and getting it publicized destabilizes the system, which is a good thing.

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Offline JoeP

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2013, 06:03:37 PM »

I think ES is the real deal.  Like Julian Assange, there are too many Politicos out to get him for this to be a Psy-Ops fabrication, IMHO.  It has to encourage more Whistle Blowers if he can make his Escape and not get sent to GITMO.

I'm wondering how he will get from Moscow to Ecuador without flying through some country that has an extradition treaty with the FSoA and getting yanked off the plane while it is refueling?  He needs to fly under an Alias.  Maybe Putin will issue him a Ruskie Passport under a new Identity?  That would be a piece of cake for the KGB.

RE

Of course.  i think the only comments here questioning ES being the real deal mention some weird  "smelling aptitude".  Fuck overrated smelling capability.  Give me some facts.
 
 
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2013, 03:41:39 AM »

I just don't understand WTF?  The information about what NSA was doing in the desert was widely known and no secret.  So why did the press even pick it up?

Even though EVERYBODY KNOWS the NSA SPIES on everybody, it is just RUMOUR and not DOCUMENTED.  The difference here is ES documented it and made it PUBLIC.  He's FINGERING people and the system in general.  Making it Clear and providing EVIDENCE.

The only way I see it as a set-up is if there is one Faction of the Illuminati looking to bring down another faction, and ES is their Point Man and/or Fall Guy.  Either way, by bringing this stuff to light and getting it publicized destabilizes the system, which is a good thing.

RE

In re what LD is asking, one ought never to mistake the corporate MSM as anything but corporo-government stenographers and propagandists. To act them to act as a "press" is to have miised the fact that that bus left a long time ago.

Anyhow, more good observations in this article from Washington's Blog.
The article will be better on the blog page, where you can follow the hyperlinks to your heart's content, but here is the gist:

Government Hypocrisy Is the Core Problem

Congress has exempted itself from the prohibition against trading on inside information … the law that got Martha Stewart and many other people thrown in jail.

There are many other ways in which the hypocrisy of the politicians in D.C. is hurting our country.

Washington politicians say we have to slash basic services, and yet waste hundreds of billions of dollars on counter-productive boondoggles. If the politicos just stopped throwing money at corporate welfare queens, military and security boondoggles and pork, harmful quantitative easing, unnecessary nuclear subsidies, the failed war on drugs, and other wasted and counter-productive expenses, we wouldn’t need to impose austerity on the people.

The D.C. politicians said that the giant failed banks couldn’t be nationalized, because that would be socialism. Instead of temporarily nationalizing them and then spinning them off to the private sector – or breaking them up – the politicians have bailed them out to the tune of many tens of billions of dollars each year, and created a system where all of the profits are privatized, and all of the losses socialized.

Obama and Congress promised help for struggling homeowners, and passed numerous bills that they claimed would rescue the little guy. But every single one of these bills actually bails out the banks … and doesn’t really help the homeowner.

The Federal Reserve promises to do everything possible to reduce unemployment. But its policies are actually destroying jobs.

Many D.C. politicians pay lip service to helping the little guy … while pushing policies which have driven inequality to levels surpassing slave-owning societies.

The D.C. regulators pretend that they are being tough on the big banks, but are actually doing everything they can to help cover up their sins.

Many have pointed out Obama’s hypocrisy in slamming Bush’s spying programs … and then expanding them (millions more).

And in slamming China’s cyber-warfare … while doing the same thing.

And – while the Obama administration is spying on everyone in the country – it is at the same time the most secretive administration ever (background). That’s despite Obama saying he’s running the most transparent administration ever.

Glenn Greenwald – the Guardian reporter who broke the NSA spying revelations – has documented for many years the hypocritical use of leaks by the government to make itself look good … while throwing the book at anyone who leaks information embarrassing to the government.

Greenwald notes today:

Prior to Barack Obama’s inauguration, there were a grand total of three prosecutions of leakers under the Espionage Act (including the prosecution of Dan Ellsberg by the Nixon DOJ). That’s because the statute is so broad that even the US government has largely refrained from using it. But during the Obama presidency, there are now seven such prosecutions: more than double the number under all prior US presidents combined.

***

Please read this rather good summary in this morning’s New York Times of the worldwide debate Snowden has enabled – how these disclosures have “set off a national debate over the proper limits of government surveillance” and “opened an unprecedented window on the details of surveillance by the NSA, including its compilation of logs of virtually all telephone calls in the United States and its collection of e-mails of foreigners from the major American Internet companies, including Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, Apple and Skype” – and ask yourself: has Snowden actually does anything to bring “injury to the United States”, or has he performed an immense public service?

The irony is obvious: the same people who are building a ubiquitous surveillance system to spy on everyone in the world, including their own citizens, are now accusing the person who exposed it of “espionage”. It seems clear that the people who are actually bringing “injury to the United States” are those who are waging war on basic tenets of transparency and secretly constructing a mass and often illegal and unconstitutional surveillance apparatus aimed at American citizens – and those who are lying to the American people and its Congress about what they’re doing – rather than those who are devoted to informing the American people that this is being done.

The Obama administration leaks classified information continuously. They do it to glorify the President, or manipulate public opinion, or even to help produce a pre-election propaganda film about the Osama bin Laden raid. The Obama administration does not hate unauthorized leaks of classified information. They are more responsible for such leaks than anyone.

What they hate are leaks that embarrass them or expose their wrongdoing. Those are the only kinds of leaks that are prosecuted. It’s a completely one-sided and manipulative abuse of secrecy laws. It’s all designed to ensure that the only information we as citizens can learn is what they want us to learn because it makes them look good. The only leaks they’re interested in severely punishing are those that undermine them politically. The “enemy” they’re seeking to keep ignorant with selective and excessive leak prosecutions are not The Terrorists or The Chinese Communists. It’s the American people.

The Terrorists already knew, and have long known, that the US government is doing everything possible to surveil their telephonic and internet communications. The Chinese have long known, and have repeatedly said, that the US is hacking into both their governmental and civilian systems (just as the Chinese are doing to the US). The Russians have long known that the US and UK try to intercept the conversations of their leaders just as the Russians do to the US and the UK.

They haven’t learned anything from these disclosures that they didn’t already well know. [He's right.] The people who have learned things they didn’t already know are American citizens who have no connection to terrorism or foreign intelligence, as well as hundreds of millions of citizens around the world about whom the same is true. What they have learned is that the vast bulk of this surveillance apparatus is directed not at the Chinese or Russian governments or the Terrorists, but at them.

And that is precisely why the US government is so furious and will bring its full weight to bear against these disclosures. What has been “harmed” is not the national security of the US but the ability of its political leaders to work against their own citizens and citizens around the world in the dark, with zero transparency or real accountability. If anything is a crime, it’s that secret, unaccountable and deceitful behavior: not the shining of light on it.

It has gotten so blatant that even New Yorker comic Andy Borowitz is lampooning the hypocrisy coming out of Washington:

At a press conference to discuss the accusations, an N.S.A. spokesman surprised observers by announcing the spying charges against Mr. Snowden with a totally straight face.

Quote
“These charges send a clear message,” the spokesman said. “In the United States, you can’t spy on people.”
***

Quote
“The American people have the right to assume that their private documents will remain private and won’t be collected by someone in the government for his own purposes.”
Quote
“Only by bringing Mr. Snowden to justice can we safeguard the most precious of American rights: privacy,” added the spokesman, apparently serious.
Similarly, journalists who act as mere stenographers for the government who never criticize in more than a superficial fashion are protected and rewarded … but reporters who actually report on government misdeeds are prosecuted and harassed.

Further, the biggest terrorism fearmongers themselves actually support terrorism. And see this.

In the name of fighting terrorism, the U.S. has been directly supporting Al Qaeda and other terrorists and providing them arms, money and logistical support in Syria, Libya, Mali, Bosnia, Chechnya, Iran, and many other countries … both before and after 9/11. And see this.

The American government has long labeled foreigners as terrorists for doing what America does.

Moreover, government officials may brand Americans as potential terrorists if they peacefully protest, complain about the taste of their water, or do any number of other normal, all-American things.

This is especially hypocritical given that liberals like Noam Chomsky and conservatives like the director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan (Lt. General William Odom) all say that the American government is the world’s largest purveyor of terrorism.

As General Odom noted:

Quote
Because the United States itself has a long record of supporting terrorists and using terrorist tactics, the slogans of today’s war on terrorism merely makes the United States look hypocritical to the rest of the world.
These are just a couple of ways in which the D.C. politicians are hypocrites.

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Offline luciddreams

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2013, 09:07:23 AM »

I think ES is the real deal.  Like Julian Assange, there are too many Politicos out to get him for this to be a Psy-Ops fabrication, IMHO.  It has to encourage more Whistle Blowers if he can make his Escape and not get sent to GITMO.

I'm wondering how he will get from Moscow to Ecuador without flying through some country that has an extradition treaty with the FSoA and getting yanked off the plane while it is refueling?  He needs to fly under an Alias.  Maybe Putin will issue him a Ruskie Passport under a new Identity?  That would be a piece of cake for the KGB.

RE

Of course.  i think the only comments here questioning ES being the real deal mention some weird  "smelling aptitude".  Fuck overrated smelling capability.  Give me some facts.

Here's a fact for you JoeP.  You can't believe anything you see on television is true.  The MSM lies and are only reporting the "official" stories which are made official by their masters who run the show in DC and are the hydra heads of the global Corporatocracy. 

So if it's true that the MSM only reports what they are allowed to report why are they reporting about Snowden?  I mean other than disinformation. 

My point is that I don't believe anything reported by MSM.  I have a world view that makes all such news mostly just a waste of time.  It's news for inside the hologram.  So Snowden being a real deal makes me wonder is all.  Why would they even recognize the information Snowden blew the whistle about?  Why not just deny the whole thing? 

I guess I have zero faith that any news is true these days. 

Offline Surly1

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2013, 09:18:21 AM »
My point is that I don't believe anything reported by MSM.  I have a world view that makes all such news mostly just a waste of time.  It's news for inside the hologram.  So Snowden being a real deal makes me wonder is all.  Why would they even recognize the information Snowden blew the whistle about?  Why not just deny the whole thing? 

I guess I have zero faith that any news is true these days.

Maybe I am far too cynical, but I completely agree. Just look at the collective "tonnage" of pols and media types trying to color the popular perception of what Snowden did, and to change the discussion from the horror or the Stasi state to whether he finished high school. They are all in, balls to the wall to discredit this man.

Partaking in MSM is like drinking from a sewer. Yes it's wet, but . . .

And the price for behaving like this is to be thought a raving lunatic by the mass of people. Par for the course for a contrarian, and I suspect the majority of folks here fit that bill.
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Offline luciddreams

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2013, 09:38:49 AM »


Maybe I am far too cynical, but I completely agree. Just look at the collective "tonnage" of pols and media types trying to color the popular perception of what Snowden did, and to change the discussion from the horror or the Stasi state to whether he finished high school. They are all in, balls to the wall to discredit this man.

Partaking in MSM is like drinking from a sewer. Yes it's wet, but . . .

And the price for behaving like this is to be thought a raving lunatic by the mass of people. Par for the course for a contrarian, and I suspect the majority of folks here fit that bill.

I know exactly what you mean Surly.  Every time I find myself in front of a television with the news on these days I get sick to my stomach.  It angers me to think that people believe this shit.  And I catch flack for calling them zombies.  WTF are they if they aren't zombies?  Believing the lies that they're sellin'.  We have no freedom left, and they are calling Snowden a traitor?  The MSM response to this (which I haven't seen but I can guarantee is true) is 100% complete double speak.  Freedom is slavery people...here's the proof.  We are free to be slaves. 

Fine, so be it, but I ain't gonna like it, and I ain't gonna believe the lies they're tellin'.  Maybe I'll go work at the Ministry of Health were I'll keep people sick to feed my family, but I won't be believing the BS.  That's what I couldn't handle with EMS.  Every year we had to go to an "ethics and compliance" seminar at the hospital where we watched videos of some ethics professor tell us what is and is not ethical in healthcare.  Nothing about 500 dollar tylenol or insurance for healthcare employees that have a 5000 dollar deductible with a 400 dollar per month price tag for a family of three.  Everything about ensuring that the billing codes are correct so as not to be hit with more medicare fraud.

It used to burn me up to have to sit through that shit and be told what was ethical by a corporation that got caught with millions in fraudulent medicare claims. 

But I digressed a bit there ;D  The point is that whatever you see on television, the opposite is true. 

Offline JoeP

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2013, 09:46:43 AM »
My point is that I don't believe anything reported by MSM.  I have a world view that makes all such news mostly just a waste of time.  It's news for inside the hologram.  So Snowden being a real deal makes me wonder is all.  Why would they even recognize the information Snowden blew the whistle about?  Why not just deny the whole thing? 

I guess I have zero faith that any news is true these days.

Maybe I am far too cynical, but I completely agree. Just look at the collective "tonnage" of pols and media types trying to color the popular perception of what Snowden did, and to change the discussion from the horror or the Stasi state to whether he finished high school. They are all in, balls to the wall to discredit this man.

Partaking in MSM is like drinking from a sewer. Yes it's wet, but . . .

And the price for behaving like this is to be thought a raving lunatic by the mass of people. Par for the course for a contrarian, and I suspect the majority of folks here fit that bill.

Yeah, MSM reporting is useless.  I agree.  And the MSM is discrediting/discoloring Snowden.  I agree.  To me, these actions support the possibility of him being the "real deal". 
 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 10:12:52 AM by JoeP »
just my straight shooting honest opinion

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2013, 09:51:30 AM »
Why would they even recognize the information Snowden blew the whistle about?  Why not just deny the whole thing? 

You want to hear my theory?  This was a TEST.  They're seeing how much they can get away with.  I think the Sandy Hook shooting, the Cyprus bank holiday, and the Boston Marathon bombing were all tests, too.  The Boston martial law test was an unmitigated success.  The Cyprus bank robbery test only had local complications; if the masses had been smart there would have been bank runs all over Europe.  The Sandy Hook gun control test was a failure, they had to go to plan B with permanent ammo shortages.  Now they're seeing if people will accept Big Brother.
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Offline g

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2013, 09:57:58 AM »
Why would they even recognize the information Snowden blew the whistle about?  Why not just deny the whole thing? 

You want to hear my theory?  This was a TEST.  They're seeing how much they can get away with.  I think the Sandy Hook shooting, the Cyprus bank holiday, and the Boston Marathon bombing were all tests, too.  The Boston martial law test was an unmitigated success.  The Cyprus bank robbery test only had local complications; if the masses had been smart there would have been bank runs all over Europe.  The Sandy Hook gun control test was a failure, they had to go to plan B with permanent ammo shortages.  Now they're seeing if people will accept Big Brother.

There was a time this would seem preposterous or too far fetched to be at all believable, not anymore.  Something about all of this seems a bit odd.  Don't get the same feeling from all of this, than from the Bradley Manning situation.   :dontknow:

Offline Eddie

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Re:Permanent ammo shortages
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2013, 10:06:04 AM »
The situation on ammo and guns and magazines is getting more back to normal, although chains stores still do sell out fast

I bought one of these at Cabela's this weekend, just because, well, because it's the coolest little survival rifle I've ever seen.



Ruger also has their new 10-22 25 round magazines on the shelf in quantity, something that makes me happy, since I own 4 of the little semi-autos now, in various barrels and stocks and triggers.

They were out of .22 ammo. But I have a lot of it, and you can get it online at the moment.
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Offline Surly1

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2013, 11:05:43 AM »
Yeah, MSM reporting is useless.  I agree.  And the MSM is discrediting/discoloring Snowden.  I agree.  To me, these actions support the possibility of him being the "real deal".

Which is why I get all my newz from Joe P.'s Newz channel.  :emthup: :emthup: :emthup:

In re Snowden, I would be inclined to agree with you, aside from the real possibility that this could be NSA v. CIA in a real world version of The Highlander ("There can BE only one.") Jon Rappoport made that speculation last week, and even though he has to unwrap the tinfoil from his head to blog, he is often correct, at least in part.

It's a hall of mirrors to be sure. But it is sobering to watch people like Schumer and Feinstein shrieking for his head, while Sen. Aqua Buddha takes up his case. Strange times make strange bedfellows.
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Offline RE

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2013, 11:41:31 AM »
Yeah, MSM reporting is useless.  I agree.  And the MSM is discrediting/discoloring Snowden.  I agree.  To me, these actions support the possibility of him being the "real deal".

Which is why I get all my newz from Joe P.'s Newz channel.  :emthup: :emthup: :emthup:

In re Snowden, I would be inclined to agree with you, aside from the real possibility that this could be NSA v. CIA in a real world version of The Highlander ("There can BE only one.") Jon Rappoport made that speculation last week, and even though he has to unwrap the tinfoil from his head to blog, he is often correct, at least in part.

It's a hall of mirrors to be sure. But it is sobering to watch people like Schumer and Feinstein shrieking for his head, while Sen. Aqua Buddha takes up his case. Strange times make strange bedfellows.

So which is it?  You think ES is for real because all the Pols are out to discredit him; or you think he is a fake because he is getting so much airplay in the MSM?

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Edward Snowden: American Patriot
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2013, 12:27:22 PM »
So which is it?  You think ES is for real because all the Pols are out to discredit him; or you think he is a fake because he is getting so much airplay in the MSM?

I'm not sure about this myself, but I don't THINK he's a fake. I HOPE he's a sign of the Millenial generation giving the status quo and TPTB the finger. Because their generation SHOULD respond that way, and I WANT them to respond that way.

What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

 

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