AuthorTopic: The Fox Den  (Read 16021 times)

Offline BC2K

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2013, 09:10:05 PM »
The last Permaculture class we had, I promised to cook chicken and dumplings for supper.

Little did they know, the chickens didn't come from the supermarket (!)... imagine the shock as I went about the business of the chicken part of the equation  ;D



A lot of people just ate salad that night...

BC2K rule # 14: Don't make friends with the food.
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Online RE

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2013, 09:17:20 PM »
The last Permaculture class we had, I promised to cook chicken and dumplings for supper.

You should make the trip down when we host the Permaculture Workshop and Co-Teach!  If we can't come to you, you can come to us!  We are not quite so Paranoid.  :icon_mrgreen:  Advantage of the Tribal Paradigm, you don't have to cut yourself off from having Friendly Visitors.  :icon_sunny:

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Offline WHD

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2013, 11:23:56 PM »
The last Permaculture class we had, I promised to cook chicken and dumplings for supper.

Little did they know, the chickens didn't come from the supermarket (!)... imagine the shock as I went about the business of the chicken part of the equation  ;D



A lot of people just ate salad that night...

BC2K rule # 14: Don't make friends with the food.

Lotta them permaculture types gonna starve then, if they can't eat what they see kilt. LOL  :icon_mrgreen:

Offline luciddreams

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2013, 07:36:41 AM »
yeah that's the vegan/veggie talking to plants like they're people, typical Transition type.  The type that live in a cloud of their own collective delusional fantasies about the amount of calories the human body needs to do physical work (and be somewhat happy while doing it).  They also tend to think we will all be able to hold hands and sing and that zombies and a tyrannical government will be unable to break the hand held circle.  I mix about like oil in water with that crowd, and there was a healthy bit of that going on at the permaculture training I attended, but by no means was everybody like that.  Maybe 40-50%, shit there were some people there who had never heard of PO.  One of the guys was an Alex Jones fan whom thought PO was a conspiracy  :icon_mrgreen:

My best friends wife won't eat our eggs cause they come from our back yard.  Americans are dumb mostly.

At any rate, back to the proposed PDC.  I think it would be an awesome idea, and we'd love to host it.  It would be awesome to get a group of Diners together, on the ground, to all acquire a PDC.  That would be loaded with all kinds of hopium inducing symbolisms.  We all get together to learn how to design permaculture systems.  Hell, we could even use the time to collectively design the perfect permaculture design for a hypothetical Foxstead (not that it would be too useful in reality seeing as how you design around the lay of the land...which would be hypothetical).  I think an event like that could go a long way towards making the Diner an agent that brings people together in the real world.  Something the Diner needs IMO.  It would take us to the next level to be bringing people together in person. 

I say we shoot for the Convocation being combined with a PDC course.  Doesn't have to be here btw.  Somewhere a bit more north of here would be ideal (although we'd be thrilled to not have to drive anywhere and have plenty of space for tents).  If there was enough interest we'd possibly even be able to go somewhere where there is already an existing class.  Maybe get a group discount.  Does the 4 quarters sanctuary provide a PDC? 

Offline DoomerSupport

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2013, 10:00:46 AM »
yeah that's the vegan/veggie talking to plants like they're people, typical Transition type.  The type that live in a cloud of their own collective delusional fantasies about the amount of calories the human body needs to do physical work (and be somewhat happy while doing it).  They also tend to think we will all be able to hold hands and sing and that zombies and a tyrannical government will be unable to break the hand held circle.  I mix about like oil in water with that crowd, and there was a healthy bit of that going on at the permaculture training I attended, but by no means was everybody like that.  Maybe 40-50%, shit there were some people there who had never heard of PO.  One of the guys was an Alex Jones fan whom thought PO was a conspiracy  :icon_mrgreen:

Both the Permaculture and the Transition Towns movement have gone down the commercialization route, they are business models now.   


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My best friends wife won't eat our eggs cause they come from our back yard.  Americans are dumb mostly.

Hopefully, when the shit hits the fan, they (or many like them) will still have an aversion to home-grown food and will stay away from yours.   


Quote
At any rate, back to the proposed PDC.  I think it would be an awesome idea, and we'd love to host it.  It would be awesome to get a group of Diners together, on the ground, to all acquire a PDC.

Thanks, I'd love to attend but I'd probably use the certificate for toilet paper, it's about all it worth in real terms. The skills I'd learn from you are what you are teaching are what is important to me.


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That would be loaded with all kinds of hopium inducing symbolisms.  We all get together to learn how to design permaculture systems.  Hell, we could even use the time to collectively design the perfect permaculture design for a hypothetical Foxstead (not that it would be too useful in reality seeing as how you design around the lay of the land...which would be hypothetical).  I think an event like that could go a long way towards making the Diner an agent that brings people together in the real world.  Something the Diner needs IMO.  It would take us to the next level to be bringing people together in person. 

Why would we want to use designs based on observing the way nature acts and reacts, using the precedents of how things have stood up to observations, rather than expecting nature to conform to our will.  Remember, it's different this time. 


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I say we shoot for the Convocation being combined with a PDC course.  Doesn't have to be here btw.  Somewhere a bit more north of here would be ideal (although we'd be thrilled to not have to drive anywhere and have plenty of space for tents).  If there was enough interest we'd possibly even be able to go somewhere where there is already an existing class.  Maybe get a group discount.  Does the 4 quarters sanctuary provide a PDC?

4Q has done permaculture courses,  not sure if the do them often but they connections close by.


« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 10:24:59 AM by Haniel »

Offline WHD

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2013, 10:12:47 AM »
Quote
At any rate, back to the proposed PDC.  I think it would be an awesome idea, and we'd love to host it.  It would be awesome to get a group of Diners together, on the ground, to all acquire a PDC.  That would be loaded with all kinds of hopium inducing symbolisms.  We all get together to learn how to design permaculture systems.  Hell, we could even use the time to collectively design the perfect permaculture design for a hypothetical Foxstead (not that it would be too useful in reality seeing as how you design around the lay of the land...which would be hypothetical).  I think an event like that could go a long way towards making the Diner an agent that brings people together in the real world.  Something the Diner needs IMO.  It would take us to the next level to be bringing people together in person. 

We'd probably all just sit around watching your chickens, gettin drunk and making fun of each other.  :icon_mrgreen: But I'll organize a hole diggin class, explainin' things, critiquin', while you and Roamer sweat out all that beer. 

Offline Surly1

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2013, 10:13:27 AM »
How about at Four Quarters Interfaith Sanctuary? Might be more centrally located... although still pretty far east for many.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline Surly1

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2013, 10:14:25 AM »
Quote
At any rate, back to the proposed PDC.  I think it would be an awesome idea, and we'd love to host it.  It would be awesome to get a group of Diners together, on the ground, to all acquire a PDC.  That would be loaded with all kinds of hopium inducing symbolisms.  We all get together to learn how to design permaculture systems.  Hell, we could even use the time to collectively design the perfect permaculture design for a hypothetical Foxstead (not that it would be too useful in reality seeing as how you design around the lay of the land...which would be hypothetical).  I think an event like that could go a long way towards making the Diner an agent that brings people together in the real world.  Something the Diner needs IMO.  It would take us to the next level to be bringing people together in person. 

We'd probably all just sit around watching your chickens, gettin drunk and making fun of each other.  :icon_mrgreen: But I'll organize a hole diggin class, explainin' things, critiquin', while you and Roamer sweat out all that beer.

I would pay to see that.

In b eer.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline BC2K

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2013, 11:16:06 AM »
Thanks, I'd love to attend but I'd probably use the certificate for toilet paper, it's about all it worth in real terms. The skills I'd learn from you are what you are teaching are what is important to me.

You are SO well schooled in understatement, Ignoring the Trolls !  Credentials don't mean shit !!

There are so many "Certified" Permies running around out there like chickens with their heads cut off (and acting like it too) but no where to practice it... like it's a very "in" thing in the Mother-earth / homesteading set, and if you have the luck to push your way up to "Permaculture Instructor", you're on parr with the most elect Gurus chugging down suckerbucks.  Sorry, I've seen it too long.

And behold the number of certified "Master Gardeners" guru set who would probably not be if they could'nt get Miracle Grow to secretly save face with.  What is it about these people who just HAVE to be expert and spout-off, talking down to everybody ?!?!

I'm gonna throw stuff out here and there on the forum, but I'm not an "expert" on anything... I just speak of my own experiences.
You can't prepare for a crisis when you are in the middle of it.

Online Eddie

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2013, 11:26:30 AM »
A permaculture certificate is on my list of to-do's. My major interest is to make a plan for my land that will hopefully become the guiding force for my next few years of preps. I don't care about diplomas anymore. Very few of them mean shit, anyway, if you've noticed. But permaculture is where it's at in terms of getting sustainable.

I do butt heads with a lot of permies, though. Because some of the more active ones in the local yahoo group regard me a "survivalist"...a term that makes them want to spit when they say it. They are out to save the world through pooping in a bucket and building gardens in unused urban spaces...which is fine by me. My more narrowly focused attempts to take care of me and mine first rub them the wrong way. And, of course, the fact that I still manage to make a decent living puts me in the "them" category. Yeah, I'm one of the one percent. Right.
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Offline DoomerSupport

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2013, 11:27:19 AM »
Thanks, I'd love to attend but I'd probably use the certificate for toilet paper, it's about all it worth in real terms. The skills I'd learn from you and what you are teaching are what is important to me.

You are SO well schooled in understatement, Ignoring the Trolls !  Credentials don't mean shit !!

There are so many "Certified" Permies running around out there like chickens with their heads cut off (and acting like it too) but no where to practice it... like it's a very "in" thing in the Mother-earth / homesteading set, and if you have the luck to push your way up to "Permaculture Instructor", you're on parr with the most elect Gurus chugging down suckerbucks.  Sorry, I've seen it too long.

I asked JMG why is was so vehemently opposed to any sort of "Green Wizard" certification - his similar observation of the Permaculture movement was his reason.


Quote
And behold the number of certified "Master Gardeners" guru set who would probably not be if they could'nt get Miracle Grow to secretly save face with.  What is it about these people who just HAVE to be expert and spout-off, talking down to everybody ?!?!

I'm gonna throw stuff out here and there on the forum, but I'm not an "expert" on anything... I just speak of my own experiences.

So let's get together and learn form each other without the bullshit.

Knowing how to feed yourself is too important to be kept behind a paywall.




Offline luciddreams

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2013, 11:34:50 AM »
Thanks, I'd love to attend but I'd probably use the certificate for toilet paper, it's about all it worth in real terms. The skills I'd learn from you are what you are teaching are what is important to me.

You are SO well schooled in understatement, Ignoring the Trolls !  Credentials don't mean shit !!

There are so many "Certified" Permies running around out there like chickens with their heads cut off (and acting like it too) but no where to practice it... like it's a very "in" thing in the Mother-earth / homesteading set, and if you have the luck to push your way up to "Permaculture Instructor", you're on parr with the most elect Gurus chugging down suckerbucks.  Sorry, I've seen it too long.

And behold the number of certified "Master Gardeners" guru set who would probably not be if they could'nt get Miracle Grow to secretly save face with.  What is it about these people who just HAVE to be expert and spout-off, talking down to everybody ?!?!

I'm gonna throw stuff out here and there on the forum, but I'm not an "expert" on anything... I just speak of my own experiences.

You guys are correct IMO.  Which, btw, means me changing my opinion.  I long suspected something was wrong with the permaculture movement.  Even when I was training with them in Asheville I considered myself a "rogue permaculturalists."  All of the Transition people I met I thought were, if not completely full of shit, then almost completely full of shit.  Shit like Cat Food Carol.  We're gonna evolve to not need to eat living things my ass.  It's complete delusion about the requirements a physical body puts on your reality. 

However, having said that, there is a lot of wisdom in the permaculture scene.  It's the best I've seen out there.  And permaculture design principals all make perfect sense and are an outstanding guide to help facilitate food production planning.  There is much to be gleaned from the permaculture principals is what I'm gettin' at, and it shouldn't be discarded as the product of marketing co-option with no intrinsic value to man. 

Having said all of that, the PDC is complete shit...I agree.  WTF I'm gonna pay 1000 dollars for a piece of paper?  So why don't we get together on somebodies property and install some rogue permaculture design as the central focus of the Convocation.  I've got plenty of holes need diggin' and food producing experiments need tweeking.  I've got a chicken keeping ecology that is ripe for evolution and transformation based on a bunch Diners throwing ideas off of each other.  We could keep a couple of campers/RV's on the property for while as well as tents.  I know you Doomer Boomers have them. 

So who all is interested in something like this? 

Offline funkyspec

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2013, 12:12:49 PM »
On-site PDC would also be a way to start and maybe even complete some labor-intensive projects at the fox den like installing canopy layer trees in a forest garden, earth moving for swales, etc.


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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2013, 12:20:41 PM »

4Q has done permaculture courses,  not sure if the do them often but they connections close by.

If we held the Convocation @ 4 Quarters AND get Toby Hemenway to lead the PDC, we could certainly up the Profile of the SUN  :icon_sunny: Project.  Regardless of whether the Certificate is Meaningful or not, a Big Name in the field would draw in more people.

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Offline BC2K

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Re: The Fox Den
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2013, 02:41:46 PM »
However, having said that, there is a lot of wisdom in the permaculture scene.  It's the best I've seen out there.  And permaculture design principals all make perfect sense and are an outstanding guide to help facilitate food production planning.  There is much to be gleaned from the permaculture principals is what I'm gettin' at, and it shouldn't be discarded as the product of marketing co-option with no intrinsic value to man. 

Oh, there's no doubt about that !  Permaculture as such may be the only sustaining way to survive !!

All the stuff Mollison reaserched and wrote about is gold!  I took the course from 2 of his best pupils, but at least they are pretty much down to earth.

I spent weeks studying Sepp Holzer's farm in Austria while I was working over in Europe '89-'97.  He's a great guy, but it's going to his family's heads and they have changed so much I don't even know them anymore.

These are the founders, true Guru's, but the way the movement reveres them as demigods is what bothers me.

I've got people here in Maine that would love to put me on a pedestal, but I can't stand people sucking up to me like that.

What is it with special cliques, tight societies... I'll never understand... been a lone wolf too long, can't handle group dynamics.
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