AuthorTopic: Greeks Get Souvlakied  (Read 59815 times)

Offline RE

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Greeks Get Souvlakied: THEY'RE BACK!
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2015, 08:05:20 PM »

This is one of the OLDEST threads on the Diner Forum, begun in February of 2012 when we opened up the Diner for bizness.  ::)

Hot Newz
of the day back then was would Greek the Euro?, would the Greeks get Lubed with more Euros?, would the Greeks prematurely exit the Euro Tunnel?, etc, etc, ETCETERA!

The more things change, the more they remain the same, and this time, it's SERIOUS!  Really, even Ambrose thinks it's serious.  :LolLolLolLol:

Who's betting the Greeks will Grexit this time for real?

I am reminded of an old joke from Junior High years:

Q: How do you separate the Greek Men from the Euro Boys?
A: With a Crowbar!
   :icon_mrgreen:

RE

The Gloves Come Off: Germany Says Grexit "Manageable" As Tsipras Demands Greek Debt Writeoff

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With just three weeks until the Greek snap elections on January 25 in which Tsipras' Syriza is virtually assured of victory (unless somehow G-Pap's "new and improved" political party manages to steal enough votes to prevent this, although one wonders what his political campaign will be: "vote for us because this time we know how to avoid a sovereign bankruptcy"), Germany takes yet another opportunity to remind the Greeks that it won't be blackmailed (spoiler: it will) into another year of funding the insolvent Greek state which in turn will pretend to engage in another year of "reforms" (spoiler: it won't). Recall it was on New Year's Eve when Merkel's chief advisor Michael Fuchs explicitly used the "blackmail" word saying:

 
 

"If Alexis Tsipras of the Greek left party Syriza thinks he can cut back the reform efforts and austerity measures, then the troika will have to cut back the credits for Greece," he said.

 

"The times where we had to rescue Greece are over. There is no potential for political blackmail anymore. Greece is no longer of systemic importance for the euro."

Today, concerned that Tsipras' ascent to power will mean precisely that, namely more "blackmail" by Greece of Germany and the Eurozone, as a Grexit opens the way for a collapse of the monetary union and a return to the Deutsche Mark which would cost Germany far more than continuing the annual charade of keeping Greece in the Euro, Spiegel is out with another piece saying "Bundesregierung hält Ausscheiden Griechenlands aus dem Euro für verkraftbar", or loosely translated, the Federal Government considers Greece's exit from the euro manageable.

In the article Spiegel says, per Bloomberg, that German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, contrary to the German government's previous stance, consider a Greek exit from the euro area to be manageable because of progress made since height of sovereign debt crisis in 2012, Der Spiegel reports in e-mailed summary of article, citing unidentified people close to govt.

 
 

Risk of contagion is limited because Portugal and Ireland have addressed their fiscal issues and ESM is ready as rescue mechanism while security of large banks to be maintained through banking union.

 

European lawmakers don’t know how a country could leave the euro while remaining in the EU and would have to task legal experts with clarifying issue.

 

German govt considers Greek exit from euro area to be almost inevitable if opposition leader Alexis Tsipras leads the country’s next govt, ditches austerity measures and  stops servicing Greece’s debts.

Worse, a Grexit now would mean all hopes of ECB QE would be put on indefinite hiatus until the legal framework of not only funding sovereign deficits but also monetizing bonds from an imploding Eurozone is justified. It also means that peripheral bonds, which have priced in well over 100% of a European QE, would go bidless overnight, leading to market crashes across the continent, then to bank runs first across the periphery then the core, and ultimately lead to a full-blown European depression.

Reality aside, why is Spiegel going with this now? Simple: moments ago Tsipras made some headlines of his own, making it very clear just what will happen if and when his party wins the election in 3 weeks.

  • TSIPRAS SAYS SYRIZA WANTS WRITEDOWN ON NOMINAL VALUE OF GREEK DEBT
  • TSIPRAS SAYS TRUE MENACE FOR EUROPE IS MERKEL'S POLICY
  • TSIPRAS SAYS GREEK DEBT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE, NEEDS RESTRUCTURING

And in detail, from Bloomberg:

Syriza’s win in forthcoming Greek snap elections will pave way for progressive policy change in Europe against German Chancellor Merkel’s austerity, party leader Alexis Tsipras says according to e-mailed transcript of speech in Athens today, with Podemos in Spain, Sinn Fein in Ireland to follow. Syriza will guarantee bank deposits. [ZH: curious, just how would Syriza do that?]. "Syriza will put an end to social tragedy, nightmare of austerity."

  • Syriza not seeking nor planning to break with European partners, but to put end to economic and social absurdity of memoranda and austerity.
  • Syriza seeks within framework of EU and European institutions to achieve realistic deal on servicing debt, developing real economy
  • Syriza will conduct sincere, resolute negotiation on debt

As for the punchline, on one hand we have this:

  • Germany had most of nominal value of debt written off in 1953, same should be done for Greece in 2015

... and on the other:

  • Syriza wants quantitative easing by direct purchase of govt bonds by ECB

Alas Syriza does not get that one is incompatible with the other, and in fact a Greek debt write off means no more ECB QE as the ECB's balance sheet - a proud holder of tens of billions of insolvent Greek debt still marked to par - would become impaired, and thus crush any political capital Draghi may have left with the Germans and the Bundesbank.

That said, the consensus can certainly forget the ECB announcing public QE at its next monetary policy meeting on January 22, which will be followed just 3 days later by the Greek national elections. In fact, things in the coming weeks and months may get very ugly, fast depending on how things in Greece play out.

So after 3 years of kicking the can and pretending it is fixed, suddenly everything that is broken in the Eurozone threatens to float right back to the surface, leading to another showdown when photos such as this one become a daily occurrence.

The only question is whether this time anyone will believe the rhetorical "whatever it takes" threats uttered by the one central bank which for the past 4 years has proven it is utterly incapable of acting, instead chosing to talk each and every day, a strategy that has worked brilliantly, until now.

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Offline RE

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Diner Special This Week: SOUVLAKI!
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2015, 05:42:50 PM »

Good Doom Food this week!

RE

 

Europe's Scariest Chart

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One week before the all-important Greek parliamentary elections and, as KeepTalkingGreece reports, left-wing SYRIZA leads in all polls published on Sunday newspapers with difference rate to Nea Dimokratia being 3.1% – 5%.

To Potami appears to have secured the third position, while Golden Dawn is losing support.  To Kinima, the party of former prime minister George Papandreou is flat at 2.7% and most likely will not manage to pass the 3% threshold and enter the Parliament.

 

 

According to calculations, SYRIZA would get 144 seats in the Parliament. That is 7 seats less than the 151 needed to form a majority government.

*  *  * 

Of course - Germany will reassure none of this matters (or does); but with the SNB breaking Central Bank promises, and the possibility of Draghi unveiling an 'anti-integration'-looking QE, we suspect injecting even more uncertainty into the Euro project via Greece will do little to stall EURUSD's collapse to parity.


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Offline RE

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Greeks Get Souvlakied: SYRIZA WINS IN A BLOWOUT!
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2015, 03:29:38 PM »
Brussel Sprouts' worst nightmare has arrived, and Tspiras now vows to end Austerity and give the finger to the Troika.

As expected, further capital outflows from Greek Banks, and the Euro crashing further to around $1.11 now.

Will the Greeks get pitched out of the Euro?  Will the Spanish follow suit?  Will we get a systemic banking crisis soon?  Opinions welcome.

RE

 
 

Blowout Victory For Syriza In Greek Elections: Live Webcasts

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UPDATE 2:

UPDATE: Greek Government official admits electoral defeat by Syriza

As AP reports,

 
 

A senior official in Greece's governing conservatives has conceded defeat to the radical left Syriza party in Sunday's national elections.

 

"We lost," Health Minister Makis Voridis told private Mega TV. "The extent of that result is not yet clear."

 

Voridis, the conservative party's parliamentary spokesman, says the government's austerity policies, implemented to secure vital international bailouts, "make sense" but were cut short before they could bear fruit.

 

An exit poll on state Nerit TV projects Syriza winning by a wide margin.

*  *  *

The first Greek exit polls are out and here they are:

According to the initial exit polls, in first place, with some 35.5%-39.5% of the vote is Syriza, a huge lead over the second placing New Democracy which has 23-27% of the vote - far more than polls had indicated previously - and a spot which essentially  assures Tsipras' party an absolute majority in parliament and the ability to take as hardline an approach as he wishes.

The other parties:

  • Golden Dawn nationalists: 6.4-8.0%
  • The new party, To Potami, also with : 6.4-8.0%
  • Venizelos' socialist Pasok: 4.2%-5.2%
  • KKE: 4.7%-5.7%
  • Independent Greeks: 3.5%-4.5%
  • Knima: 2.2%-3.2%: probably not enough to pass the 3.0% threshold

How the parliament breakdown would look like with these numbers: SYRIZA has a 12.5 percentage point lead over New Democracy and is expected to get between 146 and 158 seats in Parliament, according to the exit polls.

  • SYRIZA 152 (146-158)
  • ND 70 ( 65- 75)
  • Golden Dawn 19.5 ( 17- 22)
  • POTAMI 19.5 ( 17- 22)
  • KKE 14.5 ( 13- 16)
  • PASOK 13.5 ( 12- 15)
  • ANEL 11.5 ( 10- 13)
  • KINIMA ( 0- 8)

A second take on what Greek parliament would look like also gives Syriza an almost certain majority:

A quick observation:

In short: if nothing changes drastically from here, a blowout victory for Syriza is essentially assured, one which gives it an absolute majority.

For those who wish to follow the data in real time from the ground, here are several live webcasts:

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Offline Ka

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Re: Greeks Get Souvlakied: SYRIZA WINS IN A BLOWOUT!
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2015, 08:06:46 PM »
Brussel Sprouts' worst nightmare has arrived, and Tspiras now vows to end Austerity and give the finger to the Troika.

As expected, further capital outflows from Greek Banks, and the Euro crashing further to around $1.11 now.

Will the Greeks get pitched out of the Euro?  Will the Spanish follow suit?  Will we get a systemic banking crisis soon?  Opinions welcome.


Plus we have Greece's New FinMin Warns "We Are Going To Destroy The Greek Oligarchy System"

Which sounds great, but I am reminded of the movie Z. It did not end well. I can't imagine Washington, Brussels, and Berlin not doing all they can to turn Greece into Venezuela, for, if nothing else, scaring the Spaniards from voting for Podemos. Also, I wonder what the army in Greece is like these days.

Offline RE

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Greeks Get Souvlakied: Showdown at the OK Taverna
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2015, 11:29:16 PM »
It's Tspiras vs Shauble in a Game of Chicken Souvlaki.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/gWNn0QN03l0?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/gWNn0QN03l0?feature=player_detailpage</a>

RE

Germany's top institutes push 'Grexit' plans as showdown escalates

Germany’s Wolfgang Schäuble is 'relaxed' about Greek exit from the euro

The ancient Greek Parthenon temple, atop the Acropolis hill overlooking Athens, is framed by a lightning bolt during a thunderstorm that broke out in the Greek capital

The likelihood of “'Grexit' has risen to 35pc, according to Holger Schmieding at Berenberg Bank

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

8:31PM GMT 27 Jan 2015

A top German body has called for a clear mechanism to force Greece out of the euro if the left-wing Syriza government repudiates the terms of the country’s €245bn rescue.

“Financial support must be cut off if Greece does not comply with its reform commitments,” said the Institute of German Economic Research (IW). "If Greece is going to take a tough line, then Europe will take a tough line as well."

IW is the second German institute in two days to issue a blunt warning to the new Greek premier, Alexis Tsipras, who has vowed to halt debt payments and reverse austerity measures imposed by the EU-IMF Troika.

The ZEW research group said on Tuesday that the EU authorities should order an immediate stress test of banks linked to Greece, and drive home the threat that they are willing to let a Greek default run its course rather than cave to pressure. “Europe should clearly signal that it is not susceptible to blackmail,” it said.

Germany’s finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, said in Brussels that debt forgiveness for Greece is out of the question. “Anybody discussing a haircut just shows they don’t know what they are talking about.”

Mr Schäuble said he was sick of having to justify his rescue strategy. “We have given exceptional help to Greece. I must say emphatically that German taxpayers have handed over a great deal,” he said.

In a clear warning, he said the eurozone is now strong enough to withstand a major shock. “In contrast to 2010, the financial markets have faith in the eurozone. We face no risk of contagion, so nobody should think we can be put under pressure easily. We are relaxed,” he said.

Officials in Berlin are irritated that Mr Tsipras has gone into coalition with the Independent Greeks, a viscerally anti-German party that seems to be spoiling for a cathartic showdown over Greece’s debt. “This increases the risk of a head-on collision with the international creditors,” said Holger Schmieding, from Berenberg Bank.

Mr Schmieding said the likelihood of “Grexit” has risen to 35pc. He warned that Mr Tsipras could be in for a reality shock after making “three impossible promises to his country in one campaign”. The risk is that he will end up “ruining his country” like Argentina’s Peronist leader Cristina Kirchner. “Vicious circles can start fast,” he said.

Sources close to Mr Tsipras say he is convinced that German leaders are bluffing and will ultimately yield rather than admit to their own people that the whole EMU crisis strategy has been a failure. Markets do not agree. Credit default swaps measuring bankruptcy risk in Greece rocketed on Tuesday by 248 points to 1,654, but those for Portugal, Italy and Spain barely moved.

Jürgen Matthes, IW’s international director, said Europe must be ready to punish violators in order to uphold the eurozone’s austerity strategy and avert a collapse of discipline. “We have set up a crisis prevention strategy that relies on conditionality. If this is not enforced in the Greek case, everybody will say they want the same thing,” he said.

“Syriza succeeded in selling an illusion that Greece can end the reforms and stop paying the debt, and still stay in the euro. This is impossible. If they do that the European Central Bank cannot accept collateral guaranteed by the Greek government,” he said.

“This will force the Greeks to return to the drachma and that will cause massive disruption. There will a government default, corporate defaults and bank defaults. The financial system will simply break down,” he said.

Mr Matthes said a deal may be possible that extends the maturity yet further on Greek debt but argued that the effective interest rate being paid is already 2pc, far lower than the headline average of 4.2pc.

The new Greek finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, told The Telegraph that Syriza wants the target for the country’s primary budget to be cut from 4.5pc to 1pc of GDP, freeing enough for the new government to fund its social programme of free electricity and school lunches for the poor, and tax relief for low-earners.

The IW said a range of 3pc to 4pc is the best that Athens can hope for, and only if it also delivers on an overhaul of the tax system and a raft of reforms.

Mr Matthes warned that Syriza cannot hope for softer terms from Italy, Spain and France, since the taxpayers of these countries have lent almost as much to Greece per capita as have the Germans. “There is not going to be flexibility in the Eurogroup, nor any coalition of southern states. There is real money at stake,” he said.
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Offline agelbert

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Re: Greeks Get Souvlakied
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2015, 11:50:37 PM »
Quote
“Syriza succeeded in selling an illusion that Greece can end the reforms and stop paying the debt, and still stay in the euro. This is impossible.   If they do that the European Central Bank cannot accept collateral guaranteed by the Greek government,” he said.


Oh yeah???  



http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/we_are_going_to_destroy_the_greek_oligarchy_system_20150125



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Offline RE

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40 Ingredients for Souvlaki
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2015, 09:52:14 PM »
Seems like a good list.

Financing it with New Drachmas may prove difficult however.

RE

Syriza's Original 40 Point Manifesto

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 01/29/2015 19:30 -0500
 

The daily bulletin of Italy’s Communist Refoundation Party published today the apparently official program of the Greek coalition of the left, Syriza. Here the 40 points of the Syriza program.


    Audit of the public debt and renegotiation of interest due and suspension of payments until the economy has revived and growth and employment return.
    Demand the European Union to change the role of the European Central Bank so that it finances States and programs of public investment.
    Raise income tax to 75% for all incomes over 500,000 euros.
    Change the election laws to a proportional system.
    Increase taxes on big companies to that of the European average.
    Adoption of a tax on financial transactions and a special tax on luxury goods.
    Prohibition of speculative financial derivatives.
    Abolition of financial privileges for the Church and shipbuilding industry.
    Combat the banks’ secret [measures] and the flight of capital abroad.
    Cut drastically military expenditures.
    Raise minimum salary to the pre-cut level, 750 euros per month.
    Use buildings of the government, banks and the Church for the homeless.
    Open dining rooms in public schools to offer free breakfast and lunch to children.
    Free health benefits to the unemployed, homeless and those with low salaries.
    Subvention up to 30% of mortgage payments for poor families who cannot meet payments.
    Increase of subsidies for the unemployed. Increase social protection for one-parent families, the aged, disabled, and families with no income.
    Fiscal reductions for goods of primary necessity.
    Nationalization of banks.
    Nationalization of ex-public (service & utilities) companies in strategic sectors for the growth of the country (railroads, airports, mail, water).
    Preference for renewable energy and defence of the environment.
    Equal salaries for men and women.
    Limitation of precarious hiring and support for contracts for indeterminate time.
    Extension of the protection of labor and salaries of part-time workers.
    Recovery of collective (labor) contracts.
    Increase inspections of labor and requirements for companies making bids for public contracts.
    Constitutional reforms to guarantee separation of Church and State and protection of the right to education, health care and the environment.
    Referendums on treaties and other accords with Europe.
    Abolition of privileges for parliamentary deputies. Removal of special juridical protection for ministers and permission for the courts to proceed against members of the government.
    Demilitarization of the Coast Guard and anti-insurrectional special troops. Prohibition for police to wear masks or use fire arms during demonstrations. Change training courses for police so as to underline social themes such as immigration, drugs and social factors.
    Guarantee human rights in immigrant detention centers.
    Facilitate the reunion of immigrant families.
    Depenalization of consumption of drugs in favor of battle against drug traffic. Increase funding for drug rehab centers.
    Regulate the right of conscientious objection in draft laws.
    Increase funding for public health up to the average European level.(The European average is 6% of GDP; in Greece 3%.)
    Elimination of payments by citizens for national health services.
    Nationalization of private hospitals. Elimination of private participation in the national health system.
    Withdrawal of Greek troops from Afghanistan and the Balkans. No Greek soldiers beyond our own borders.
    Abolition of military cooperation with Israel.  Support for creation of a Palestinian State within the 1967 borders.
    Negotiation of a stable accord with Turkey.
    Closure of all foreign bases in Greece and withdrawal from NATO.
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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Greeks Get Souvlakied
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2015, 10:50:27 PM »
Not unreasonable.
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Offline agelbert

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Re: Greeks Get Souvlakied
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2015, 11:44:02 PM »
Cut military expenditures? Watch out for the Colonels from yesteryear with their friends in the CIA... :evil4:

Make SURE you include lots of JAIL sentences and asset stripping when enforcing this item in the 40 point Maniifesto : Combat the banks’ secret [measures] and the flight of capital abroad.

Subpart A) BANKER CROOK New residence = 

Subpart B) Use crook Banker assets to fund equal pay for men and women!  :emthup:  :icon_sunny:

Go get em' Syriza!



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Offline RE

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Alex Tspiras Open Letter to Germany
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2015, 11:57:15 PM »
Alex came out of the box firing on all cylinders.

Getting the Krauts to write down Greek Debt though will be quite a challenge.

RE

Alexis Tsipras' Open Letter To Germany: What You Were Never Told About Greece

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 01/29/2015 10:27 -0500

Authored by Alexis Tsipras via Syriza.net,

Most of you, dear [German] readers, will have formed a preconception of what this article is about before you actually read it. I am imploring you not to succumb to such preconceptions. Prejudice was never a good guide, especially during periods when an economic crisis reinforces stereotypes and breeds biggotry, nationalism, even violence.

In 2010, the Greek state ceased to be able to service its debt. Unfortunately, European officials decided to pretend that this problem could be overcome by means of the largest loan in history on condition of fiscal austerity that would, with mathematical precision, shrink the national income from which both new and old loans must be paid. An insolvency problem was thus dealt with as if it were a case of illiquidity.

In other words, Europe adopted the tactics of the least reputable bankers who refuse to acknowledge bad loans, preferring to grant new ones to the insolvent entity so as to pretend that the original loan is performing while extending the bankruptcy into the future. Nothing more than common sense was required to see that the application of the 'extend and pretend' tactic would lead my country to a tragic state. That instead of Greece's stabilization, Europe was creating the circumstances for a self-reinforcing crisis that undermines the foundations of Europe itself.

My party, and I personally, disagreed fiercely with the May 2010 loan agreement not because you, the citizens of Germany, did not give us enough money but because you gave us much, much more than you should have and our government accepted far, far more than it had a right to. Money that would, in any case, neither help the people of Greece (as it was being thrown into the black hole of an unsustainable debt) nor prevent the ballooning of Greek government debt, at great expense to the Greek and German taxpayer.

Indeed, even before a full year had gone by, from 2011 onwards, our predictions were confirmed. The combination of gigantic new loans and stringent government spending cuts that depressed incomes not only failed to rein the debt in but, also, punished the weakest of citizens turning people who had hitherto been living a measured, modest life into paupers and beggars, denying them above all else their dignity. The collapse of incomes pushed thousands of firms into bankruptcy boosting the oligopolistic power of surviving large firms. Thus, prices have been falling but more slowly than wages and salaries, pushing down overall demand for goods and services and crushing nominal incomes while debts continue their inexorable rise. In this setting, the deficit of hope accelerated uncontrollably and, before we knew it, the 'serpent's egg' hatched – the result being neo-Nazis patrolling our neighbourhoods, spreading their message of hatred.

Despite the evident failure of the 'extend and pretend' logic, it is still being implemented to this day. The second Greek 'bailout', enacted in the Spring of 2012, added another huge loan on the weakened shoulders of the Greek taxpayers, "haircut" our social security funds, and financed a ruthless new cleptocracy.

Respected commentators have been referring of recent to Greece's stabilization, even of signs of growth. Alas, 'Greek-covery' is but a mirage which we must put to rest as soon as possible. The recent modest rise of real GDP, to the tune of 0.7%, signals not the end of recession (as has been proclaimed) but, rather, its continuation. Think about it: The same official sources report, for the same quarter, an inflation rate of -1.80%, i.e. deflation. Which means that the 0.7% rise in real GDP was due to a negative growth rate of nominal GDP! In other words, all that happened is that prices declined faster than nominal national income. Not exactly a cause for proclaiming the end of six years of recession!

Allow me to submit to you that this sorry attempt to recruit a new version of 'Greek statistics', in order to declare the ongoing Greek crisis over, is an insult to all Europeans who, at long last, deserve the truth about Greece and about Europe. So, let me be frank: Greece's debt is currently unsustainable and will never be serviced, especially while Greece is being subjected to continuous fiscal waterboarding. The insistence in these dead-end policies, and in the denial of simple arithmetic, costs the German taxpayer dearly while, at once, condemning to a proud European nation to permanent indignity. What is even worse: In this manner, before long the Germans turn against the Greeks, the Greeks against the Germans and, unsurprisingly, the European Ideal suffers catastrophic losses.

Germany, and in particular the hard-working German workers, have nothing to fear from a SYRIZA victory. The opposite holds. Our task is not to confront our partners. It is not to secure larger loans or, equivalently, the right to higher deficits. Our target is, rather, the country's stabilization, balanced budgets and, of course, the end of the grand squeeze of the weaker Greek taxpayers in the context of a loan agreement that is simply unenforceable. We are committed to end 'extend and pretend' logic not against German citizens but with a view to the mutual advantages for all Europeans.

Dear readers, I understand that, behind your 'demand' that our government fulfills all of its 'contractual obligations' hides the fear that, if you let us Greeks some breathing space, we shall return to our bad, old ways. I acknowledge this anxiety. However, let me say that it was not SYRIZA that incubated the cleptocracy which today pretends to strive for 'reforms', as long as these 'reforms' do not affect their ill-gotten privileges. We are ready and willing to introduce major reforms for which we are now seeking a mandate to implement from the Greek electorate, naturally in collaboration with our European partners.

Our task is to bring about a European New Deal within which our people can breathe, create and live in dignity.

A great opportunity for Europe is about to be born in Greece. An opportunity Europe can ill afford to miss.
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Offline Palloy

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Re: Greeks Get Souvlakied
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2015, 12:48:40 AM »
Greece obviously realizes that the EuroZone can't meet their demands, but it has to go through the motions of talking it over, and then making the EuroZone kick them out, rather than them leaving.  Then the resulting economic pain can be blamed on those horrible Europeans.

Mr Schäuble said ... “In contrast to 2010, the financial markets have faith in the eurozone. We face no risk of contagion, so nobody should think we can be put under pressure easily.”  ;D  ;D  ;D

I was wondering if Greece was wanting to leave NATO as well, and if so, how they would manage it.  But I see from their manifesto that "Closure of all foreign bases in Greece and withdrawal from NATO." is already in there.  The UK has two bases in the Greek part of Cyprus, but they sit on British sovereign territory, so they are not technically Greek territory.

The UK has done nothing in 40 years to try and patch up Greece-Turkey relations over Cyprus.  I suppose it's the old divide and rule strategy. But if Russia could bring them together over pipelines, then perhaps they could be friends again, and then Turkey might leave NATO too.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Greeks Get Souvlakied
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2015, 05:44:18 AM »
Rhetoric, at this point. Now we see if the banksters can buy him off somehow....or blackmail him, assassinate him, or otherwise neutralize this rebellion and prevent default on their precious debt.
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Offline RE

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Greeks Get Greeked
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2015, 10:39:02 AM »
At some point here, the Greeks gotta stop taking it up the ass from the Euro Clowns.  The Krauts obviously think they can contain a Greek Debt Default.  The Greeks are fucked either way here, so instead of groveling they just gotta issue worthless Drachma and see how it goes.  They can't win here, but maybe they can take the Krauts down the toilet with them.

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Greece "Risks Bankruptcy" As Europe Rejects Varoufakis Payment Plan; Another Referendum Fiasco Ensues

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/08/2015 11:43 -0400
 

There was one reaction by the Eurogroup following the (delayed) submission of the Greek 7-point reform proposal - which includes the brilliant idea to use foreign tourists as wired, part-time tax spies - in advance of the latest Monday finmin meeting: laughter.

    Financial Times reports that the reaction from eurozone officials to the tourist plan was received with humor. They thought the proposal was hilarious and even laughed when they read it. “It’s quite hilarious, if it were not so tragic, that this is what a government in an industrialised country comes up with,” said one eurozone official involved in the talks.

There will be little laughter in cash-strapped Greece, however, if the Sunday Times is correct in its report that the "Eurogroup finance ministers are to reject radical reform proposals from Greece at a meeting in Brussels tomorrow."

    The Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis will present a seven-point plan in a desperate attempt to unlock a €7.2bn (£5.2bn) cash injection — the final payment under a bailout plan agreed three years ago. According to a source close to the discussions, European officials believe Greece needs to do more “on the ground”.

As the Times concluded, Greece is hoping for a favorable response because unless the cash injection is approved, Greece faces a "full-scale default."

Unfortunately for Greece, moments ago Germany's Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung confirmed the bad news, when it said that the EU commission has rejected the Greek request for speedy aid payments, cites Valdis Dombrovskis, EU commissioner for the euro. The commissioner adds that the Varoufakis letter "lacks specific enough action plan and that the reform steps must be approved by Greek parliament and be implemented."

In other words, as we reported before, Greece is back to square minus one, where first Europe will send the dreaded Troika inspectors "on the ground" in Athens to catch up to everything they have missed in the months they have been absent and then, and only then, does Greece have any chance of even being seriously considered for more aid.

The problem is that this will come far too late to satisfy not only the upcoming IMF payments (as a reminder these are due as follows: €350 million on March 13, €580 million on March 16 and another €350 million on March 20), but now that Greece no longer has access to the various pension and social security funding "swaps" it may even be unable to rollover its next T-Bill maturity. Recall Greece has a total of €2 billion in debt-servicing payments, including T-bill redemptions and IMF obligations coming due on Friday.

Bloomberg adds:

    In the absence of bailout funds, Tsipras said in an interview with Der Spiegel magazine that he planned to use short-term treasury bills to cover any cash shortfall in the coming weeks. The ability of Greek banks to buy these securities is constrained by a deposit outflow and the ECB’s refusal to accept more so-called T-bills as collateral for financing the country’s lenders.

     

    ECB President Mario Draghi poured cold water on Greek lobbying for the government to be allowed to issue more short-term debt, and for Greek banks to be permitted to buy it.

     

    “The ECB is a rules-based, not a political institution,” and can’t provide monetary financing to governments, either directly or indirectly, “when banks bring collateral in order to buy that debt,” Draghi said on Thursday.

     

    So with its back against the wall, and with its funds lower than ever, Greece had no choice but to resort to warnings/threats that either Europe steps up or the government will directly to the people, with another referendum.

Which led to the latest "lost in translation" fiasco involving Greece (the latest of very many in the past few weeks), in which Italy’s Il Corriere della Sera quoted Varoufakis as saying Greece may call new elections, and hold referendum on the euro if European finance ministers reject reform proposals.

Greece, without any leverage left, was then quick to point out that it wasn't trying to give Europe merely another ultimatum, and a Greek government official said in e-mail to reporters that Varoufakis "never said that referendum would be held on country’s euro membership." Instead, the referendum would be on the government's policy. As Bloomberg adds, "Varoufakis never said or meant that the country’s membership in the euro area would be the subject of a hypothetical referendum in his interview with Corriere, the country’s finance ministry said in an e-mailed statement. Implementation an agreement extending the country’s bailout loans proceeds normally, and Greece will repay all financial obligations on time and in full, the ministry said."

With what money? Quote the NYT:

    Jens Bastian, a financial consultant based in Athens and a former member of the European Commission’s task force on Greece, [said] “The situation is dire, and this government is finding out in real time how difficult it is to meet its multiple obligations,” he said. “It tells you something about the sheer level of desperation they face to identify any funding resources wherever they can pinch pennies.”

Reuters add:

    Former Prime Minister Antonis Samaras, who is now head of the main opposition party, said a referendum would be "a very bad development" and allow the government to shrug off its responsibilities.

     

    The now much-diminished Greek Socialist PASOK party, also in the opposition to Tsipras' radical left alliance, said in a statement that Varoufakis's statement was "irresponsible, thoughtless and contradictory".

As for the semantics of the referendum, they all boil down to the same thing: Syriza would be asking the voters to resolve two contradictory ideals: either the Greeks concede to austerity, or they agree to exiting the Eurozone. Because for Greece there no longer is a compromise, middle ground.

Sadly, there is no money either.

“I can only say that we have money to pay salaries and pensions of public employees,” Varoufakis told Corriere. “For the rest we will see.”

Still, despite all the posturing and the return of quasi-threats on both sides, the fate of Greece may now be sealed:

    ECB Governing Council member Luc Coene said some comments by the Greek government have left him wondering whether the country belongs in the European economic and monetary union.

     

    “When I hear certain declarations of the Greek government, I ask myself: ‘what are they still doing in this mechanism?’” he is quoted as saying in an interview with Belgian newspaper Le Soir.

Right about now, as the Greek deposit flight is almost certain to resume on this latest escalation in rhetoric is set to resume, Greeks are likely asking themselves the same question.

As for Syriza, its days may indeed be numbered if the following graffiti are indicative of the rapidly shifting popular mood, whose brief infatuation with the new ultra-left and "reformist" government is now only a distant memory.

And if indeed Syriza's days are numbered, is the neo-nazi Golden Dawn up next to rule the battered Eurozone member?
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Offline Palloy

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Re: Greeks Get Souvlakied
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2015, 03:22:38 PM »
"Europe must not be made to look stupid."   :laugh:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-12/germans-furious-after-varoufakistsipras-admit-greece-will-never-repay-its-debts
Germans Furious After Varoufakis/Tsipras Admit "Greece Will Never Repay Its Debts"
Tyler Durden
3/12/2015

The Greco-Germanic war of words continues... Having pissed off The Greeks with his "Troika" remarks, Germany's Schaeuble went on today to more ad hominum attacks by reportedly calling the Greek FinMin "foolishly naive." The Greek ambassador has 'officially' complained to "friend and ally" Germany about the personal insult. But The Greeks had the last laugh, as first Varoufakis and then Tsipras explained respectively that "Greece would never pay back its debts," and "Greece cannot pretend its debt burden is sustainable." The German response, via tabloid Bild, "there must be an end to this madness. Europe must not be made to look stupid."

As Bloomberg reports, Germany and Greece confirmed Thursday that the Greek ambassador in Berlin made an official protest late Tuesday to the German Foreign Ministry over comments made by Schaeuble.

    Schaeuble and his Greek counterpart Yanis Varoufakis have traded barbs in recent weeks, with Schaeuble on Tuesday suggesting that Varoufakis needed to look more closely at an agreement that Greece signed in February: “He just has to read it. I’m willing to lend him my copy if need be.”

    “It was a complaint after what he (Schaeuble) said about Mr. Varoufakis. As a minister of a country that is our friend and our ally, he cannot personally insult a colleague.”

    Koutras did not specify what the insult was, but Greek media had reported that Schaeuble had said that Varoufakis was “foolishly naive.”

    Schaeuble said Thursday that any suggestion he insulted Varoufakis at the meeting is “absurd.”

*  *  *

And then, as Reuters reports,  Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis has described his country as the most bankrupt in the world and said European leaders knew all along that Athens would never repay its debts, in blunt comments that sparked a backlash in the German media on Tuesday.

    A documentary about the Greek debt crisis on German public broadcaster ARD was aired on the same day euro zone finance ministers met in Brussels to discuss whether to provide Athens with further funding in exchange for delivering reforms.

    "Clever people in Brussels, in Frankfurt and in Berlin knew back in May 2010 that Greece would never pay back its debts. But they acted as if Greece wasn't bankrupt, as if it just didn't have enough liquid funds," Varoufakis told the documentary.

    "In this position, to give the most bankrupt of any state the biggest credit in history, like third class corrupt bankers, was a crime against humanity," said Varoufakis, according to a German translation of his comments.

Followed today by comments from Syriza leader Tsipras...

    *TSIPRAS: GREECE CAN'T PRETEND ITS DEBT BURDEN IS SUSTAINABLE
    *TSIPRAS: IT'S VITAL FOR GREECE'S PUBLIC DEBT TO BE RESTRUCTURED

Wait What!!

The Germans are not happy... the remarks caused a stir in Germany where voters and politicians are increasingly reluctant to lend Greece money.

    Bild daily splashed the comments on the front page and ran an editorial comment urging European leaders to stop providing Greece with ever more financial support.

    "The Greek government is behaving as if everyone must dance to its tune. But there must be an end to this madness. Europe must not be made to look stupid," wrote a commentator.

*  *  *

European 'Union' indeed.
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Offline RE

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Re: Greeks Get Souvlakied
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2015, 04:40:04 PM »
"Europe must not be made to look stupid."   :laugh:

They past the "Looking Stupid" point quite some time back.  They are now at the "Looking Criminal" point.

Souvlakis is correct that Greece is OBVIOUSLY bankrupt and OBVIOUSLY will never pay off its debts, but the credit issuers cannot recognize that fact of life.  Why not?  Because there are way BIGGER debtors than measely Greeks out there who ALSO will never pay off their debts either, like say the Japanese, the Germans and the FSoA!

It's Pandora's Box.  When it opens, and open it will, as Doc Brown said, "You will see some serious shit".

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/k0kswK2aI08?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/k0kswK2aI08?feature=player_detailpage</a>

It's gonna be quite the show, and it's COMING SOON TO A THEATER NEAR YOU!

re
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