AuthorTopic: Meanwhile back at the 'stead  (Read 257737 times)

Offline Eddie

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #780 on: February 23, 2017, 06:03:10 AM »
The typical deer fence here is the "high fence" with two runs of 4 ft woven wire stacked, but I'm not a big fan of the whole principle of high fence. I'm not sure my fence will work, but the first part is just around the pig pasture, maybe 4 acres, so if it turns out not keep out deer, I'll make the garden fences higher. It isn't finished, so I don't know.

I might fool around with trying an electric strand standing off the posts toward the outside of the enclosure, more at head level to see if they will touch it and get trained. I think if they ever get shocked once, they won't cross it. So far I have never seen a deer inside my 42 inch high poultry netting, which is my temporary enclosure. I do use the white electric rope too. I run one strand as an inner fence for the pigs, to keep them from getting up against the poultry mesh and getting  a bunch of dirt and crap on it. The white rope is a good training tool because the animals can see it. One foot high, one strand, and my 400 pound sows won't cross it.

3 Joules should be enough to get a deer's attention, if they can't clear it jumping flat footed. We have whitetail deer, not as big as your deer, but excellent jumpers nonetheless. :)

I think the six foot fence with a hot strand is going to be great for humans. This is Texas. People get shot for cutting fence. LOL. I'd be very surprised if anybody cut one of our fences.

My main security issue is that I have a road easement through my property, used by a half dozen neighbors. It's a private road, and it goes across the creek, and the crossing is a "legacy" swimming hole, and everyone for miles around knows about it. The road frontage isn't all fenced, so trucks used to be able to just drive out into the woods, and for years, nobody was ever around.


It's better , in my view, to not aggressively run people off from the creek crossing. When I see somebody hanging out there, I just introduce myself and let them know its on private property, and that I have rules.....no guns and no littering, and don't pet the snakes. In general people don't come back once they realize somebody is keeping an eye on the spot. If I were in residence, I think it wouldn't be a problem. It's a quarter mile to pavement, and it's a rocky road.



What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Farmer McGregor

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #781 on: February 23, 2017, 10:43:04 AM »
The typical deer fence here is the "high fence" with two runs of 4 ft woven wire stacked, but I'm not a big fan of the whole principle of high fence. I'm not sure my fence will work, but the first part is just around the pig pasture, maybe 4 acres, so if it turns out not keep out deer, I'll make the garden fences higher. It isn't finished, so I don't know.

I might fool around with trying an electric strand standing off the posts toward the outside of the enclosure, more at head level to see if they will touch it and get trained. I think if they ever get shocked once, they won't cross it. So far I have never seen a deer inside my 42 inch high poultry netting, which is my temporary enclosure. I do use the white electric rope too... The white rope is a good training tool because the animals can see it.
Double 4 ft. high fence is what's used here as well.  Some of my place still has some that goes back 50 years when the previous owners kept domestic deer in confinement.  I hope to enclose my entire 7 acres that way eventually because the deer are such a nuisance.  My +/- 1 acre garden area has 6 foot but the damn deer are over it in a wink.  There's 5 acres of pasture and some brush (chinese elm thicket where they have their fawns) but no, they have to eat my tomatos.  I saw in The Diner here somebody saying deer won't eat tomato plants -- Ha!  Eat'em right down to nubs and leave swiss chard alone.

I can't see deer being trained to electric that way since they tend to be in travelling herds, not the same individuals as with confinement livestock.  And they don't seem to approach fense to investigate it with their noses, they stand back to evaluate whether to jump it or not.  Folks have tried attracting them to touch it with foil and peanut butter, etc., but of all the people I talk with out here nobody's ever found it effective.  Again roaming herds...   If you haven't seen them inside your poultry netting, maybe it cuz' you jes ain't seen 'em.  In, munch, out.  Do you see sign?

I like the white ribbon material for the same reasons, but it doesn't have the longevity of wire.  The conducting strands break up over time and it becomes resistive and less effective.  But as a nicely visible top strand undergirded with regular wire (all electric) lower down, it makes good longer term livestock paddock division.

Pity that a legacy swimming hole can't remain just that.  But nowadays if you're the land owner, the liability risk is too great to allow it.  Sucks.

Keep up the battle.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 11:44:08 AM by Farmer McGregor »
For years we have let ourselves believe that as long as we have money we will have food. This is a mistake. The government will bring forth no food by providing hundreds of billions of dollars to the agribusiness industry.  --Wendell Berry after the 2008 crash

Offline RE

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #782 on: February 23, 2017, 10:54:11 AM »
The typical deer fence here is the "high fence" with two runs of 4 ft woven wire stacked, but I'm not a big fan of the whole principle of high fence. I'm not sure my fence will work, but the first part is just around the pig pasture, maybe 4 acres, so if it turns out not keep out deer, I'll make the garden fences higher. It isn't finished, so I don't know.

I might fool around with trying an electric strand standing off the posts toward the outside of the enclosure, more at head level to see if they will touch it and get trained. I think if they ever get shocked once, they won't cross it. So far I have never seen a deer inside my 42 inch high poultry netting, which is my temporary enclosure. I do use the white electric rope too... The white rope is a good training tool because the animals can see it.
Double 4 ft. high fence is what's used here as well.  Some of my place still has some that goes back 50 years when the previous owners kept domestic deer in confinement.  I hope to enclose my entire 7 acres that way eventually because the deer are such a nuisance.  My +/- 1 acre garden area has 6 foot but the damn deer are over it in a wink.  There's 5 acres of pasture and some brush (chinese elm thicket where they have their fawns) but no, they have to eat my tomatos.  I saw in The Diner here somebody saying deer won't eat tomato plants -- Ha!  Eat'em right down to nubs and leave swiss chard alone.

I can't see deer being trained to electric that way since they tend to be in travelling herds, not the same individuals as with confinement livestock.  And they don't seem to approach fense to investigate it with their noses, they stand back to evaluate whether to jump it or not.  Folks have tried attracting them to touch it with foil and peanut butter, etc., but of all the people I talk with out here nobody's ever found it effective.  Again roaming herds...   If you haven't seem them inside your poultry netting, maybe it cuz' you jes ain't seen 'em.  In, munch, out.  Do you see sign?

I like the white ribbon material for the same reasons, but it doesn't have the longevity of wire.  The conducting strands break up over time and it becomes resistive and less effective.  But as a nicely visible top strand undergirded with regular wire (all electric) lower down, it makes good longer term livestock paddock division.

Pity that a legacy swimming hole can't remain just that.  But nowadays if you're the land owner, the liability risk is too great to allow it.  Sucks.

Keep up the battle.

Just camp out in the field and shoot them when they jump the fence!

POW POW POW


Who's the Top of the Food Chain here?  Those deer will make a nice stew!  Even better than Python Stew!

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline Eddie

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #783 on: February 23, 2017, 11:00:04 AM »
You're probably correct about the deer. I'm flying by the seat of my pants, no real reason to expect the e-fence to work. Uncharted territory for me. Thanks for the heads-up.

But it isn't much work to try it, as I'll be putting a pig hot rope along the inside anyway. I'm sold on e-fence for pigs. Once I have a great perimeter fence, I might just use the rope and no poultry net for moveable paddocks and see if they stay in.

The deer might just not want to be that close to five big curious pigs. It's possible they get in and out all the time, but I haven't seen any scat or caught them in there. I don't think they've been in the feeders, but they aren't  open feeders, and maybe the doors keep 'em out. We have lots of deer and they usually do move in herds of 5-10 does and fawns. The bucks are usually solo when I see them, which isn't as often.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #784 on: February 23, 2017, 11:02:59 AM »
The typical deer fence here is the "high fence" with two runs of 4 ft woven wire stacked, but I'm not a big fan of the whole principle of high fence. I'm not sure my fence will work, but the first part is just around the pig pasture, maybe 4 acres, so if it turns out not keep out deer, I'll make the garden fences higher. It isn't finished, so I don't know.

I might fool around with trying an electric strand standing off the posts toward the outside of the enclosure, more at head level to see if they will touch it and get trained. I think if they ever get shocked once, they won't cross it. So far I have never seen a deer inside my 42 inch high poultry netting, which is my temporary enclosure. I do use the white electric rope too... The white rope is a good training tool because the animals can see it.
Double 4 ft. high fence is what's used here as well.  Some of my place still has some that goes back 50 years when the previous owners kept domestic deer in confinement.  I hope to enclose my entire 7 acres that way eventually because the deer are such a nuisance.  My +/- 1 acre garden area has 6 foot but the damn deer are over it in a wink.  There's 5 acres of pasture and some brush (chinese elm thicket where they have their fawns) but no, they have to eat my tomatos.  I saw in The Diner here somebody saying deer won't eat tomato plants -- Ha!  Eat'em right down to nubs and leave swiss chard alone.

I can't see deer being trained to electric that way since they tend to be in travelling herds, not the same individuals as with confinement livestock.  And they don't seem to approach fense to investigate it with their noses, they stand back to evaluate whether to jump it or not.  Folks have tried attracting them to touch it with foil and peanut butter, etc., but of all the people I talk with out here nobody's ever found it effective.  Again roaming herds...   If you haven't seem them inside your poultry netting, maybe it cuz' you jes ain't seen 'em.  In, munch, out.  Do you see sign?

I like the white ribbon material for the same reasons, but it doesn't have the longevity of wire.  The conducting strands break up over time and it becomes resistive and less effective.  But as a nicely visible top strand undergirded with regular wire (all electric) lower down, it makes good longer term livestock paddock division.

Pity that a legacy swimming hole can't remain just that.  But nowadays if you're the land owner, the liability risk is too great to allow it.  Sucks.

Keep up the battle.

Just camp out in the field and shoot them when they jump the fence!

POW POW POW


Who's the Top of the Food Chain here?  Those deer will make a nice stew!  Even better than Python Stew!

RE

They are a game animal and subject to hunting season and a license. But my county is a five deer county, and tags aren't even required for animals with no horns. I'm surprised Ag Commissioner Sid Miller hasn't made it legal to hunt them from helicopters with machine guns.
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #785 on: February 23, 2017, 11:12:21 AM »
The typical deer fence here is the "high fence" with two runs of 4 ft woven wire stacked, but I'm not a big fan of the whole principle of high fence. I'm not sure my fence will work, but the first part is just around the pig pasture, maybe 4 acres, so if it turns out not keep out deer, I'll make the garden fences higher. It isn't finished, so I don't know.
Double 4 ft. high fence is what's used here as well.  Some of my place still has some that goes back 50 years when the previous owners kept domestic deer in confinement.  I hope to enclose my entire 7 acres that way eventually because the deer are such a nuisance.  My +/- 1 acre garden area has 6 foot but the damn deer are over it in a wink.  There's 5 acres of pasture and some brush (chinese elm thicket where they have their fawns) but no, they have to eat my tomatos.  I saw in The Diner here somebody saying deer won't eat tomato plants -- Ha!  Eat'em right down to nubs and leave swiss chard alone.

Want to know a secret?  Deer are really good at estimating height, and they can jump pretty high.  But with their eyes set on either side of their head, they have pretty poor depth perception.  Rather than stacking those 2 4-foot fences on top of each other, try placing them side by side, 4 feet apart.  They have a much harder time figuring out how to jump 2 fences.  I can't say for sure how well this works when you are enclosing acreage, but it works great for small spaces.

Alternatively, you can put a 6-foot fence on a 45-degree angle for much the same effect.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline RE

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #786 on: February 23, 2017, 11:15:57 AM »

They are a game animal and subject to hunting season and a license. But my county is a five deer county, and tags aren't even required for animals with no horns. I'm surprised Ag Commissioner Sid Miller hasn't made it legal to hunt them from helicopters with machine guns.

Well, sure they are.  BUT, generally speaking if an animal predates on your own land, you have the right to kill it as a varmint.  If you have a fenced in area and the deer jump it, they are fair game regardless of season.  That is how I understand the law anyhow.

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Offline Eddie

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #787 on: February 23, 2017, 11:23:20 AM »
Not the law for deer in Texas. Not even if they're coming right for ya.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Cwpo_j4c1Hk&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Cwpo_j4c1Hk&fs=1</a>
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #788 on: February 23, 2017, 11:25:48 AM »
The typical deer fence here is the "high fence" with two runs of 4 ft woven wire stacked, but I'm not a big fan of the whole principle of high fence. I'm not sure my fence will work, but the first part is just around the pig pasture, maybe 4 acres, so if it turns out not keep out deer, I'll make the garden fences higher. It isn't finished, so I don't know.
Double 4 ft. high fence is what's used here as well.  Some of my place still has some that goes back 50 years when the previous owners kept domestic deer in confinement.  I hope to enclose my entire 7 acres that way eventually because the deer are such a nuisance.  My +/- 1 acre garden area has 6 foot but the damn deer are over it in a wink.  There's 5 acres of pasture and some brush (chinese elm thicket where they have their fawns) but no, they have to eat my tomatos.  I saw in The Diner here somebody saying deer won't eat tomato plants -- Ha!  Eat'em right down to nubs and leave swiss chard alone.

Want to know a secret?  Deer are really good at estimating height, and they can jump pretty high.  But with their eyes set on either side of their head, they have pretty poor depth perception.  Rather than stacking those 2 4-foot fences on top of each other, try placing them side by side, 4 feet apart.  They have a much harder time figuring out how to jump 2 fences.  I can't say for sure how well this works when you are enclosing acreage, but it works great for small spaces.

Alternatively, you can put a 6-foot fence on a 45-degree angle for much the same effect.

It's also said that deer won't jump any fence if they don't have a clear view of the landing spot on the other side. Some people plant shrubberies.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/69iB-xy0u4A&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/69iB-xy0u4A&fs=1</a>
What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.

Offline RE

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #789 on: February 23, 2017, 11:30:43 AM »
Not the law for deer in Texas. Not even if they're coming right for ya.

OK.  So what is the Law if you run enough juice through your fence so it doesn't just give a little shock warning, but instead INSTANTLY ELECTROCUTES said deer if a hoof even TOUCHES the fence.  You know, run like 20,000 Volts through the thing, maybe 10 amps should do the trick.  Are you still subject to the Game Laws?  They will prosecute you for electrocuting deer?

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Offline Farmer McGregor

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #790 on: February 23, 2017, 12:09:46 PM »
You guys are so dang funny!  I especially liked the 'shrubbery' part!

And that is, in fact, a good solution!  As one of you pointed out, they won't jump where they cannot see the landing zone, hence hedgerows all over Europe (and some of old New England as well).  The two fences with a gap between has also proven somewhat effective, but one of them still has to be fairly high.  Mulies can virtually step over a 4 foot fence, and will do it twice coming from an oblique angle.

As for POW POW POW, I wouldn't dare discharge a firearm here -- urban/rural interface -- stray bullet might find someone's living room.  Now a good bow and arrow?  As long as nobody saw me, and I got a clean kill so the bugger didn't run off and die in a neighbor's yard.  If I were hungry I wouldn't hesitate to set up a snare or deadfall of some sort.  Licenses are required in CO, but I haven't hunted in a LONG time and don't want to get my name back on that list of potential gun owners.

Eddie, I'll bet the pigs are a deterrent; deer are easily spooked by things that move.  They definitely avoid my livestock, but eat the shit out of my tomatoes and bed down in my grain beds -- makes harvesting it a bitch.
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Alternatively, you can put a 6-foot fence on a 45-degree angle for much the same effect.
That's a fascinating idea; I can see how it might work well.  Maybe even at a 30 degree angle, keep the peak a little higher.  One problem here: wet, heavy snow with wind can tear down normal fence.  Not sure how tough you'd have to make angled fence to keep it intact.  Gonna hafta toy with that.
For years we have let ourselves believe that as long as we have money we will have food. This is a mistake. The government will bring forth no food by providing hundreds of billions of dollars to the agribusiness industry.  --Wendell Berry after the 2008 crash

Offline RE

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #791 on: February 23, 2017, 12:16:29 PM »
You guys are so dang funny!  I especially liked the 'shrubbery' part!

And that is, in fact, a good solution!  As one of you pointed out, they won't jump where they cannot see the landing zone, hence hedgerows all over Europe (and some of old New England as well).  The two fences with a gap between has also proven somewhat effective, but one of them still has to be fairly high.  Mulies can virtually step over a 4 foot fence, and will do it twice coming from an oblique angle.

As for POW POW POW, I wouldn't dare discharge a firearm here -- urban/rural interface -- stray bullet might find someone's living room.  Now a good bow and arrow?  As long as nobody saw me, and I got a clean kill so the bugger didn't run off and die in a neighbor's yard.

Cross Bow inside a Fenced in area, no chance the deer will get back out after being hit, unless you are a REALLY bad shot.  If you can't make a kill shot inside 50 yards with a crossbow, you deserve to die.

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Offline Farmer McGregor

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #792 on: February 23, 2017, 12:22:23 PM »
Now a good bow and arrow?  As long as nobody saw me, and I got a clean kill so the bugger didn't run off and die in a neighbor's yard.
Cross Bow inside a Fenced in area, no chance the deer will get back out after being hit, unless you are a REALLY bad shot.  If you can't make a kill shot inside 50 yards with a crossbow, you deserve to die.

RE
"...inside a fenced area..."  Not got yet.  Some really lousy little ancient wires a man can step over, some wide open to the neighborhood.  Otherwise, heck yes.  As to crossbow -- my little experience there says just as deadly as 30.06 but silent.  Still could find somebody's house, or a passing car...
For years we have let ourselves believe that as long as we have money we will have food. This is a mistake. The government will bring forth no food by providing hundreds of billions of dollars to the agribusiness industry.  --Wendell Berry after the 2008 crash

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Meanwhile back at the 'stead
« Reply #793 on: February 23, 2017, 12:54:54 PM »
And that is, in fact, a good solution!  As one of you pointed out, they won't jump where they cannot see the landing zone, hence hedgerows all over Europe (and some of old New England as well).  The two fences with a gap between has also proven somewhat effective, but one of them still has to be fairly high.  Mulies can virtually step over a 4 foot fence, and will do it twice coming from an oblique angle.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I like using wooden snow fence, so it has the effect of helping to hide what's behind it.... I agree, it wouldn't be nearly as effective with a simple wire fence that is easy to see through.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline RE

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Mangalitsa Piggie Theft Prevention
« Reply #794 on: March 04, 2017, 10:47:39 AM »
Did you ever install any cameras to record the license plate of any vehicles that come on your property like we discussed?  Nobody can steal a pig without a pickup truck.

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