AuthorTopic: 666  (Read 1811 times)

Offline agelbert

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 11820
    • View Profile
    • Renewable Rervolution
666
« on: July 30, 2013, 07:09:49 PM »
Roulette Wheel inventor ensured the numbers on the wheel added up to 666 because he allegedly had made a deal with the prince of this world, :evil4:, for money  :evil5:   :evil6:   :o

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/UkZqFtYtqaI#&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/UkZqFtYtqaI#&fs=1</a>
Learn about how both the Greek and Hebrew biblical texts were coding for Ceasar Nero
One of the ancient texts has 616 instead. According to this video, that is further proof that Nero was the desired interpretation for 666! Find out how.  ;)

One piece of data I ran into in the Old Testament that convinced me that the number 666 had something to do with money and wealth was it's association with Solomon (a VERY rich king) and gold.

Here's an interesting analysis of 666 :evil4: and King Solomon :pile: :

Quote
In 1 Kings 10:14-15 we read. “The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents, not including the revenues from merchants and traders and from all the Arabian kings and the governors of the land.” 

This surely was a large income. Based upon recent gold prices, 666 talents would amount to an annual income of about one-half billion in US dollar terms.  Based upon the average income of that time, King Solomon would have earned an income equivalent to about 200,000 laborers and more. 

In those terms, his annual income would be closer to an equivalent of $8 to $10 billion per year.  As the Bible confirms, no other king was as rich as he was during that time.

But, let’s return to our examination of this curious number — “six hundred threescore and six” as it is phrased in the King James translation. 

It comes up on only 3 occasions in the Bible. 

Most well known is its reference in Revelation 13:18. 

Another reference is found in Ezra 2:13, where it refers to the number of Adomicam’s family that was returning to Jerusalem from Babylon. 

However, the parallel account in Nehemiah 7:18, counts them differently at 667.  Given this apparent inconsistency, we are best not to attribute any importance to this reference.

However, the first reference in the Bible to the number 666 appears in the two parallel records of the reign of King Solomon. (1 Kings 10 and 2 Chronicles 9)  In both, the number is mentioned specifically.

But why should its reference here attract further attention?  There are at least two reasons.  Firstly, the number is incongruous with the rest of these two chapters.  It sticks out as a sore thumb.

The two, almost identical, Scripture accounts employ many numbers in describing the reign of King Solomon and the opulence of his kingdom and possessions.  For example, there are mentioned 300 concubines, 1400 chariots, 300 shields, and 12,000 horses.  Among more than 15 numbers mentioned, there is found one unusual number — 666. Of the 11 numbers greater than 100 employed in this chapter, only one of these is not rounded to nearest one-hundredth or one-thousandth or ending in zero.  It is the number 666.

Secondly, the application and context of this number is ill-fitting. King Solomon’s annual income in terms of talents of gold “was 666 talents,   not including the revenues from merchants and traders and from all the Arabian kings and the governors of the land.”   (2 Chronicles 9:13-14. 1 Kings 10:14-15). 

The text clearly tells us that he had much greater revenues than 666 talents per year.  Then why is the odd number of 666 used in describing his income?  It would be just as strange to express ones hourly wage of $10.00 as $6.66 plus a whole lot more.  In any case, it would be strange if Solomon’s gold income were not to fluctuate from year to year.

Therefore, we should conclude that this number is also meant to provide a symbolic connection. It may simply alert us to the fact that King Solomon commanded a prosperous and opulent economy that then descended into idolatry and bureaucratic controls.  It was not a “divine” economy but an enterprise of man with all its usual defects and troubles. In the end, the bureaucracy under Solomon ended up becoming a type of oppressor.  Says one commentator, “Solomon’s success came at the high price of individual freedom and tribal sovereignty.”

 The Simple Meaning of 666

666 surely is an infamous number among both Christians and non-Christians alike. However, before we comment any further, we best keep in mind Joseph Thayer’s comment (author of The Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) concerning this number — “six hundred and sixty six, the meaning of which is the basis of much vain speculation.”  As such, we will not embark upon any such speculation and limit ourselves to the Bible’s plain meaning.  Anything else would risk misdirection.

That said, there assuredly is a lot of non-sensical and ludicrous speculation as to the meaning of this number.  Even well-known Bible teachers make speculative associations, employing numerology, arbitrary calculations (gematria) and other twists of mathematics.   One high-profile prophecy teacher with a large TV audience openly makes associations with the number 66 purely on the basis of the number values of English names.  This is so spurious it can hardly bear comment.  For one, this practice presumes that the English language must be used to unlock the meaning of a text originally written in Greek.  This is the equivalent to saying that all people — whether Chinese or Swahili — must be required to first learn English before they can be allowed to read the Holy Scriptures.  We forget that the Bible’s words were inspired in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.  On this theory, we must all first learn these three languages before we can study the scriptures.

No doubt, many levels of meanings may be taken from the number 666.  However, in essence, the Bible provides a fairly straightforward description.  Said John the Revelator, “If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.” (Revelation 13:18)  Clearly, the beast and man are together indicted in this passage. It is man’s number … representing his systems and beliefs and idolatries.  These happen to be enervated by the Prince of this World.

It should be noticed that the Revelator’s mention of the number 666 follows right after the verses that inform us that the false prophet will attempt to induce everyone to take the mark of the beast: “And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” (Revelation 13:16-17)

There clearly is an obvious economic and financial connection.   An idolatrous man-made system of control is likely indicated, implying self-sufficiency and a reliance upon earthly materialism.  Systems such as these are destined for destruction or break-up as happened to Solomon’s kingdom. In this sense, we may see that a common spirit finds a connection with the later stages of Solomon’s reign, the number 666 and the yet future prophetic events.

http://www.raptureready.com/featured/hahn/h3.html
Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline Ashvin

  • Troll
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 3141
    • View Profile
Re: 666
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2013, 07:20:33 PM »
AG,

Here is an article by Hank Hanegraff summarizing some of this evidence as well:



http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/what-is-the-meaning-of-666/
What is the meaning of 666?

Multitudes today assume that 666 is a number representing a modern-day beast about to be revealed. Placing the beast in the twenty-first century, however, may well pose insurmountable difficulties. First, John, the author of Revelation, told a first-century audience that with “wisdom” and “insight” they would be able to “calculate the number of the beast, for it is man’s number. His number is 666” (Revelation 13:18). Obviously no amount of wisdom and insight would have enabled a first-century audience to calculate the number of a twenty-first-century beast. It would have been cruel and dangerously misleading for John to suggest to first-century Christians that they could identify the beast if, in fact, the beast was a twenty-first-century individual or institution.

Furthermore, unlike today, transforming names into numbers (gematria) was common in antiquity. For example, in the Lives of the Twelve Caesars Roman historian Suetonius identifies Nero by a numerical designation equal to a nefarious deed. This numerical equality (isopsephism) is encapsulated in the phrase: “Count the numerical values of the letters in Nero’s name, and in ‘murdered his own mother’ and you will find their sum is the same.” In Greek the numerical value of the letters in Nero’s name (Greek: Nevrwn, English transliteration: Neron) totaled 1,005, as did the numbers in the phrase murdered his own mother. This ancient numerical cryptogram reflected the widespread knowledge that Nero had killed his own mother.

Finally, while “Nero” in Greek totaled 1,005, the reader of John’s letter familiar with the Hebrew language could recognize that the Greek spelling of “Nero Caesar” transliterated into Hebrew equals 666. Moreover, the presence in some ancient manuscripts of a variation in which 666 is rendered 616 lends further credence to Nero as the intended referent. The Hebrew transliteration of the Latin spelling of “Nero Caesar” totals 616, just as the Hebrew transliteration of the Greek, which includes an additional letter (Greek: “n”=50, English transliteration: “n”=50), renders 666. Thus, two seemingly unrelated numbers lead you to the same doorstep—that of a beast named Nero Caesar. Twenty-first-century believers, like their first-century counterparts, can be absolutely certain that 666 is the number of Nero’s name and that Nero is the beast who ravaged the bride of Christ in a historical milieu that included three and a half years of persecution. In the end, Peter and Paul themselves were persecuted and put to death at the hands of this Beast. Indeed this was the only epoch in human history in which the Beast could directly assail the foundation of the Christian Church of which Christ himself was the cornerstone.




It's amazing how much we can learn from the Bible if we simply read it consistently and as a whole, as the authors intended, without the distracting noise of sensationalist Christian pundits and newspaper eschatologists.

Offline agelbert

  • Global Moderator
  • Master Chef
  • *****
  • Posts: 11820
    • View Profile
    • Renewable Rervolution
Re: 666
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2013, 09:40:08 PM »
Quote
It's amazing how much we can learn from the Bible if we simply read it consistently and as a whole, as the authors intended, without the distracting noise of sensationalist Christian pundits and newspaper eschatologists.

Absolutely. I'm no scholar but I can't help but think that John had read about those 666 talents of gold that King Solomon obtained. Maybe it doesn't mean a thing or maybe it meant "something" for the Jews in regard to Solomon.

This letters for numbers and vice versa is confusing. I try to keep the proper perspective of a couple thousand years or so since all these events in the New Testament took place. There is ample talk of the spirit of the anti-Christ ALREADY in evidence although they said it was of a "later days" thing.  I think, rather than fixating on a number, I look for evidence of the spirit of the anti-Christ in modern life (there's plenty of it!  :emthdown:). 

The 666 fixation has always been a kind of boogie man game for some churches. I remember over 20 years ago they were freaking out because the bar-coding was going to be the mark of the beast due to some 666 math in it. I think it was like the thrill people get from watching scary movies.  :icon_mrgreen:

As if we didn't have enough to worry about and spiritually battle, inventing a few more things to fear doesn't help.

Thanks for the comment, brother.  :emthup:
Leges         Sine    Moribus      Vanae   
Faith,
if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

Offline Ashvin

  • Troll
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 3141
    • View Profile
Re: 666
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2013, 05:51:01 AM »
Absolutely. I'm no scholar but I can't help but think that John had read about those 666 talents of gold that King Solomon obtained. Maybe it doesn't mean a thing or maybe it meant "something" for the Jews in regard to Solomon.

I think the parallel to Israel descending into "idolatry and bureaucratic controls" is interesting, and then of course subsequent judgment via Assyria and Babylon as was predicted in advance by Jewish prophets. The thing is, there is no greater parallel for that than what happened at the time of Christ, i.e. the 1st century culminating with Jerusalem's (and the Temple's) physical destruction by Rome in AD70. After all, the Pharisaical Jewish element condemned Israel's true Messiah to death and were judged for it just as predicted in advance by that same Messiah, the Prophet Jesus.

Nowadays we like to assume that our time is a better parallel to those things, but the 1st century was truly a time of revolutionary cultural, political, spiritual changes as well as judgment and persecution. Of course, the cultural, political, spiritual, etc. messages of the Bible are always relevant, but I doubt John was specifically referring to 20th and 21st century events.

Quote
This letters for numbers and vice versa is confusing. I try to keep the proper perspective of a couple thousand years or so since all these events in the New Testament took place. There is ample talk of the spirit of the anti-Christ ALREADY in evidence although they said it was of a "later days" thing.  I think, rather than fixating on a number, I look for evidence of the spirit of the anti-Christ in modern life (there's plenty of it!  :emthdown:).

Right, we don't need the "anti-Christ" to be a specific person or institution. The spirit of anti-Christ is basically any spiritual message that is... against Christ. That spirit is certainly alive and well today in MANY different people and institutions.

Quote
The 666 fixation has always been a kind of boogie man game for some churches. I remember over 20 years ago they were freaking out because the bar-coding was going to be the mark of the beast due to some 666 math in it. I think it was like the thrill people get from watching scary movies.  :icon_mrgreen:

Yep, pure "newspaper" eschatology. They use all kinds of crazy math and reasoning to try and correlate modern events to things in the Bible. That's why the rapture, tribulation and return of Christ was predicted so many times in the 20th century and failed every single time.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 05:58:03 AM by Ashvin »

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 42014
    • View Profile
Re: 666
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2013, 06:06:10 AM »
TEOTWAWKI IS NEAR!
I am only 5 posts away from 6666 on the Diner!

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: 666
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2013, 06:33:30 AM »
TEOTWAWKI IS NEAR!
I am only 5 posts away from 6666 on the Diner!

RE

Chump Change!   ;D  ::)

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 42014
    • View Profile
Re: 666
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 06:42:52 AM »
TEOTWAWKI IS NEAR!
I am only 5 posts away from 6666 on the Diner!

RE

Chump Change!   ;D  ::)

Interestingly, you are at almost exactly half that number. ;)

RE
Save As Many As You Can

Offline g

  • Golden Oxen
  • Contrarian
  • Master Chef
  • *
  • Posts: 12280
    • View Profile
Re: 666
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 07:09:31 AM »
TEOTWAWKI IS NEAR!
I am only 5 posts away from 6666 on the Diner!

RE

Chump Change!   ;D  ::)

Interestingly, you are at almost exactly half that number. ;)

RE

When measured against the quality and imparting of knowledge Dear Leader I am a mere 333 in comparison.  :'(

Forgive me on my sins of pride and arrogance Dear Leader 33 or 3 would be more appropriate when applying a measure of merit to my contributions relative to your superlative postings.        ::)

Offline RE

  • Administrator
  • Chief Cook & Bottlewasher
  • *****
  • Posts: 42014
    • View Profile
Re: 666
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 07:19:18 AM »

Forgive me on my sins of pride and arrogance Dear Leader 33 or 3 would be more appropriate when applying a measure of merit to my contributions relative to your superlative postings.        ::)

It's not EZ being ME! :icon_mrgreen:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/kCXXoI1Plx4?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/kCXXoI1Plx4?feature=player_detailpage</a>

Next one is the BIG ONE!  LOL.

RE
Save As Many As You Can