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Chained to the Cross
« on: November 13, 2013, 02:30:11 AM »

Off the keyboard of Ray Jason


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Published on The Sea Gypsy Philosopher on November 8, 2013


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Discuss this article at the Seasteding Table inside the Diner


AVENTURA at anchorThere is no calendar aboard AVENTURA, and I often lose track of what day it is. Actually, down here – south of many borders – the seasons are so similar to each other, that I often lose track of what month it is! But I always know when it is Sunday. That’s because a veritable armada of cayucos will stream by my boat on their way to church.


A few weeks ago one passed very close, and as always, I waved with neighborly enthusiasm. Seven or eight of the kids waved back just as vigorously. But there was one young, teen-aged girl who responded differently. Apparently she had never been so close to one of these sailing boats, and she studied it carefully. I watched her gaze drift from bow to stern and then from the waterline to the top of the mast. Then she noticed my boat’s name which is the Spanish word for “adventure.”


With the cayuco only 10 feet away, I delighted in seeing her happy smile as visions of travel, freedom and exotic elsewhere’s danced in her head. But swiftly her face changed, and I witnessed something that a man in his Middle Years never wishes to see in the eyes of someone so young. As she looked directly up at me, I watched as her youthful joy was suffocated by despair. There was surrender in that look – the realization that her dreams for a life that could cross over the borders of her birth, might never be achieved.


This experience touched me so deeply that I created this little story, which tries to depict what she is experiencing at this threshold moment in her life. And even if this tale is not accurate in the case of this young woman, it surely is for someone else her age – and probably for many, many others out there who also feel caged by the circumstances of their birth.


 


*******


 


I will name her Dolores, which is the Spanish word for “sadness.” She was the second born of 8 children. As is often the case, in an effort to keep up with her older brother, she tended to be tomboyish. If he could row the cayuco across the bay in 20 minutes, she would try to do it in 18 minutes. If he caught 4 fish she would strive for 6. But one thing that they did not compete in was sea turtles. They both loved the big creatures, and would drift for hours amongst them in their little native canoe.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_B12ademvvek/THbbjHJ4FPI/AAAAAAAAARE/OnD_U2rAtyo/s1600/Turtle2BabiesReturning.jpgFor her 10th birthday, her father took her on a turtle-watching trip at a remote beach. As the female labored most of the night laying her eggs and covering them in the sandy nest, the volunteers quietly explained to Dolores the entire process including how the tiny hatchlings will have to race down the beach to the safety of the sea as predator birds and animals attack them.


It was a momentous night in her young life. Besides being inquisitive about the mother turtle, Dolores asked the volunteers many questions about their lives and their dedication to these animals. She learned that a person had to be at least 18 years old and very carefully trained before they could qualify to be turtle beach monitors. She also discovered that some of them were studying marine biology with a specialty in sea turtles. Dolores felt a bit like her beloved turtles that night. She sensed that she had stuck her head out of her own shell and glimpsed her future.


At school she found a helpful teacher who encouraged her and brought her books and magazine articles about the turtles of the sea. The more she learned, the more she wanted to know. Could it be that one day she could go to university and become a marine biologist and then travel the world studying and helping these gentle animals?


 


*******


 


And now at 13 years old, her family cayuco is passing beside AVENTURA. My sweet, little boat is the perfect symbol for all that she seeks in life. But it is not just a fairy tale illusion. It is a real thing – tangible evidence that people can voyage to strange new lands, see unusual creatures and savor exotic adventures. And it lives where the turtles live – in the sea.


As her cayuco heads across the bay to the chapel, the young girl pivots and looks back at the lovely AVENTURA once more. Even from 30 yards away I can sense her longing and her sad resignation. She is headed to church, which is supposed to be a joyous and liberating experience. But Dolores is wise beyond her years, and she understands that it does not emancipate her – it enslaves and crushes her.


Yet, even though she intuitively recognizes this, she cannot possibly imagine how masterfully the church orchestrates this. For over 20 centuries they have perfected their subtle incarceration methods so brilliantly that the prisoners barely realize that they are captives. Allow me to explain how profoundly and malevolently they dominate so many lives around the world.


Here in Latin America, when a baby is born, it is extremely likely that it will be designated as a Catholic child. A few weeks later a baptismal ceremony further reinforces this status. As the little one finds its way in the world it receives loving guidance from its parents. It learns that fire and snakes and lightning are dangerous. And it is also taught that mangoes ripe from the tree and fish fresh from the sea are delicious. A bond of sublime trust is formed between parent and child. So when these adults, who have provided so much helpful knowledge about how the world works, also teach it that religion is a good thing, why would the youngster not believe the parents?


And this is further reinforced by the pageantry of the religious services. Things are different inside the church. It is quieter and solemn and reverent. The kids aren’t running around wildly, and the person at the front wears very unusual clothes. He gives some sort of fancy speech that the adults all follow carefully. Afterwards the grown-ups behave as if something important has happened.


So if the child’s parents say that religion is a good thing and if the ceremony at the church is so extraordinary, then it is natural for the kids to accept their place in the flock. And the term “flock” is appropriate here – for the church controls them as thoroughly as a shepherd dominates his sheep.


http://what-buddha-said.net/Pics/hell.n4.jpgThe keystone of the church’s indoctrination is the concept of hell. The young people are relentlessly warned that if they do certain things they will suffer grotesque agony for all of eternity. Most of the “sins” that will condemn a person to this horrible fate are irrelevant to typical kids. After all, they are not going to murder someone or worship false idols or rob the local bank. But as soon as they reach puberty, they get hammered by a Catholic edict that they barely knew even existed. Thou shalt not use birth control.


After the epiphany that Dolores experienced on the beach with the mother turtle, she realized that her desired path in life was different from most of her peers. Although there was much charm in her Indio village life, her dreams swept towards the far horizon. She wanted to venture beyond the boundaries of her birthplace, and embrace the wider world. To achieve this she would need to succeed in both high school and university.


Just when Dolores was recognizing this, she noticed that many of the girls just a few years older than her were suddenly dropping out of high school and having babies. When she asked them why they didn’t wait a little longer until they finished school, they confessed that the pleasure of sex was so extraordinary that they couldn’t restrain themselves. And since the almighty church insisted that if they used birth control they would burn in hell for a million years, they had risked unwanted pregnancies because sexual passion can be so overpowering.


Because Dolores had not yet reached puberty, she convinced herself that she could forego sexual desire in order to fulfill her dreams. But when those potent universal yearnings started to pulse through her young body, she too felt herself being swept along. She went to her mother seeking guidance. Why can’t a person enjoy the wonders of sex without having to risk bringing an unwanted child into the world? Since her mom had never questioned such things herself, her only response was, “…because the church says so, and they know what’s best.”


But with the exquisite vision of her future blurring and darkening before her eyes, that answer was not good enough for Dolores. So she asked the teacher who had been so helpful to her, if there wasn’t some other way, some other option? As an instructor in a Catholic school, the sympathetic teacher hesitated, but then decided to answer truthfully. She told her bright young student – so overflowing with curiosity about life and the world – that there was another way. She explained that there are reliable and affordable methods of birth control as close as the nearest drug store. And she added that millions and millions of people around the world use them without fear or guilt, because they have not been told that by doing so they will burn forever in hell.


And then the confused young student said, “But if the church cares about us so much, why would it destroy my dreams for the future – my simple dreams that harm no one and can help the turtles?”


The good teacher paused and looked Dolores in the eyes, “Your question is a just and sensible one, but the answer is very complicated. Anything I say will probably confuse you even more. But in only a few more years you will discover the answer for yourself. And it will be much more powerful and valuable to you because you found it on your own!”


 


*******


 


It was only a few days after that conversation with her beloved teacher that Dolores passed by AVENTURA in the family cayuco headed for church. Had I known the source of the anguish that was so clearly visible in her eyes, I might have shouted out something like this:


The church does not care about you, Dolores. It seeks only to further its own power and interests. Witness how its birth control rules crush your dreams and force you down a life path that you do not desire. Ignore the church. It is a dictatorship that wants to dominate your heart and your mind and your body. Cast it off like a scorpion on a shoe, and race out into that wide world that beckons to you so powerfully. Listen to the murmurings within you. They are the voices of our race and the echoes of the centuries. They will serve you well.”



Offline Eddie

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 06:42:40 AM »
Well, Ray...nobody has to wonder where you stand on the Church and birth control.

I just wonder if in a few years whether hormonal control of the female reproductive cycle will be available anywhere at all, and how that will affect the lives of girls.

I guess the most important thing is  the knowledge of how it all works. If birth control drugs are no longer available, it will only be the elimination of ignorance that stands between young women and a life punctuated by serial pregnancies. Unfortunately, it seems like the religious establishment wants to maintain ignorance as much as they want to prevent access to birth control.

You probably don't know, but I  have three daughters. They all started taking birth control at an early age, on the advice of their doctor, who knew our community's dirty little secret. That in an affluent suburb like the one we lived in, the abortion rate in our high school was higher than any ghetto school. That religico parents, both Catholic and Protestant, railed against sex education and birth control, and even condoms, but then quietly helped their kids end unwanted  pregnancies....because....after all, they couldn't let a baby come between their daughters and getting into an Ivy League university, or a trip to Europe, or any of the other things that being young and well-off entitled them to...

To me that's far worse than merely denying access to birth control. Terminating a pregnancy is a premeditated act of...if not murder, at least an act of cold expediency against a defenseless fetus. This leaves deep emotional scars. And not just on the girl, but sometimes on the boy involved too, who generally has no voice at all in the matter.

Not sure where I'm going with this. Your story just reminded me...

If we descend into a new Dark Age, I'm sure the Church will endure, and the things that bother you now will get worse instead of better. Will there be pockets of light, where knowledge is preserved, or will the whole world descend into ignorance? I don't know. I know that some of us want to build such a place.





« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 08:50:45 AM by Eddie »
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Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 09:05:31 AM »
Well, Ray...nobody has to wonder where you stand on the Church and birth control.

I just wonder if in a few years whether hormonal control of the female reproductive cycle will be available anywhere at all, and how that will affect the lives of girls.
Almost certainly... the question is, will anyone know where to look, when it doesn't come in a pill bottle?  Indigenous cultures have long known what herbs to use to control the female reproductive cycle.

More importantly, will chemical pollution that mimics female birth control be so ubiquitous we end up with a "Children of Men" scenario?
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 10:23:32 AM »
Indigenous cultures have long known what herbs to use to control the female reproductive cycle.

Begs the question. Can pregnancy be prevented by intake of foods high in estrogen and progesterone?

Edamame and yams?
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Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 10:46:16 AM »
Indigenous cultures have long known what herbs to use to control the female reproductive cycle.

Begs the question. Can pregnancy be prevented by intake of foods high in estrogen and progesterone?

Edamame and yams?
The phytoestrogens themselves present in food won't prevent pregnancy, but combined with a low body fat percentage, that can be sufficient... the herbs that are of medicinal strength are not generally eaten as food.  I can't remember them off-hand, and I'm too busy right now to research them just for the sake of curiosity, but if someone might seriously be interested in using them, I can do that.
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Offline Ashvin

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 12:06:24 PM »
LOL, I seem to remember being attacked by a few people when I asserted that Ray was primarily attacking theism in his last post rather than "praising pantheism". I hope that is even more clear now.

<p style=\"text-align: right;\">Off the keyboard of Ray Jason</p>
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<p style=\"text-align: center;\">Published on <a title=\"The Sea Gypsy Philosopher\" href=\"http://theseagypsyphilosopher.blogspot.com/2013/11/chained-to-cross.html\" target=\"_blank\">The Sea Gypsy Philosopher[/url] on November 8, 2013</p>
<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img alt=\"http://cdn.supadupa.me/shop/3360/images/1189676/161_original_grande.gif?1379273849\" src=\"http://cdn.supadupa.me/shop/3360/images/1189676/161_original_grande.gif?1379273849\" /></p>
<p style=\"text-align: center;\">Discuss this article at the <a title=\"Seasteading Discusssion\" href=\"http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php?topic=2029.msg36069;topicseen#msg36069\"><strong>Seasteding Table</strong>[/url] inside the Diner</p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\"><img class=\"alignleft\" id=\"Image1_img\" alt=\"AVENTURA at anchor\" src=\"http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y5hXidmRGCc/Uaizaxn6z6I/AAAAAAAAADU/9gV3tDl9gVA/s250/AVENTURA_happily_alone.JPG\" width=\"188\" height=\"250\" />There is no calendar aboard AVENTURA, and I often lose track of what day it is. Actually, down here – south of many borders – the seasons are so similar to each other, that I often lose track of what </span><span style=\"font-size: large;\">month</span><span style=\"font-size: large;\"> it is! But I always know when it is Sunday. That’s because a veritable armada of cayucos will stream by my boat on their way to church.</span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">A few weeks ago one passed very close, and as always, I waved with neighborly enthusiasm. Seven or eight of the kids waved back just as vigorously. But there was one young, teen-aged girl who responded differently. Apparently she had never been so close to one of these sailing boats, and she studied it carefully. I watched her gaze drift from bow to stern and then from the waterline to the top of the mast. Then she noticed my boat’s name which is the Spanish word for “adventure.” </span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">With the cayuco only 10 feet away, I delighted in seeing her happy smile as visions of travel, freedom and exotic elsewhere’s danced in her head. But swiftly her face changed, and I witnessed something that a man in his Middle Years never wishes to see in the eyes of someone so young. As she looked directly up at me, I watched as her youthful joy was suffocated by despair. There was surrender in that look – the realization that her dreams for a life that could cross over the borders of her birth, might never be achieved. </span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">This experience touched me so deeply that I created this little story, which tries to depict what she is experiencing at this threshold moment in her life. And even if this tale is not accurate in the case of this young woman, it surely is for someone else her age – and probably for many, many others out there who also feel caged by the circumstances of their birth.</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">*******</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">I will name her Dolores, which is the Spanish word for “sadness.” She was the second born of 8 children. As is often the case, in an effort to keep up with her older brother, she tended to be tomboyish. If he could row the cayuco across the bay in 20 minutes, she would try to do it in 18 minutes. If he caught 4 fish she would strive for 6. But one thing that they did not compete in was sea turtles. They both loved the big creatures, and would drift for hours amongst them in their little native canoe. </span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\"><img class=\"alignright\" alt=\"http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_B12ademvvek/THbbjHJ4FPI/AAAAAAAAARE/OnD_U2rAtyo/s1600/Turtle2BabiesReturning.jpg\" src=\"http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_B12ademvvek/THbbjHJ4FPI/AAAAAAAAARE/OnD_U2rAtyo/s1600/Turtle2BabiesReturning.jpg\" width=\"470\" height=\"324\" />For her 10</span><sup><span style=\"font-size: large;\">th</span></sup><span style=\"font-size: large;\"> birthday, her father took her on a turtle-watching trip at a remote beach. As the female labored most of the night laying her eggs and covering them in the sandy nest, the volunteers quietly explained to Dolores the entire process including how the tiny hatchlings will have to race down the beach to the safety of the sea as predator birds and animals attack them. </span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">It was a momentous night in her young life. Besides being inquisitive about the mother turtle, Dolores asked the volunteers many questions about their lives and their dedication to these animals. She learned that a person had to be at least 18 years old and very carefully trained before they could qualify to be turtle beach monitors. She also discovered that some of them were studying marine biology with a specialty in sea turtles. Dolores felt a bit like her beloved turtles that night. She sensed that she had stuck her head out of her own shell and glimpsed her future.</span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">At school she found a helpful teacher who encouraged her and brought her books and magazine articles about the turtles of the sea. The more she learned, the more she wanted to know. Could it be that one day she could go to university and become a marine biologist and then travel the world studying and helping these gentle animals?</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">*******</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">And now at 13 years old, her family cayuco is passing beside AVENTURA. My sweet, little boat is the perfect symbol for all that she seeks in life. But it is not just a fairy tale illusion. It is </span><span style=\"font-size: large;\">a real thing</span><span style=\"font-size: large;\"> – tangible evidence that people can voyage to strange new lands, see unusual creatures and savor exotic adventures. And it lives where the turtles live – in the sea.</span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">As her cayuco heads across the bay to the chapel, the young girl pivots and looks back at the lovely AVENTURA once more. Even from 30 yards away I can sense her longing and her sad resignation. She is headed to church, which is supposed to be a joyous and liberating experience. But Dolores is wise beyond her years, and she understands that it does not emancipate her – it enslaves and crushes her. </span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">Yet, even though she intuitively recognizes this, she cannot possibly imagine how masterfully the church orchestrates this. For over 20 centuries they have perfected their subtle incarceration methods so brilliantly that the prisoners barely realize that they are captives. Allow me to explain how profoundly and malevolently they dominate so many lives around the world.</span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">Here in Latin America, when a baby is born, it is extremely likely that it will be designated as a Catholic child. A few weeks later a baptismal ceremony further reinforces this status. As the little one finds its way in the world it receives loving guidance from its parents. It learns that fire and snakes and lightning are dangerous. And it is also taught that mangoes ripe from the tree and fish fresh from the sea are delicious. A bond of sublime trust is formed between parent and child. So when these adults, who have provided so much helpful knowledge about how the world works, also teach it that religion is a good thing, why would the youngster not believe the parents?</span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">And this is further reinforced by the pageantry of the religious services. Things are </span><span style=\"font-size: large;\">different</span><span style=\"font-size: large;\"> inside the church. It is quieter and solemn and reverent. The kids aren’t running around wildly, and the person at the front wears very unusual clothes. He gives some sort of fancy speech that the adults all follow carefully. Afterwards the grown-ups behave as if something important has happened.</span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">So if the child’s parents say that religion is a good thing and if the ceremony at the church is so extraordinary, then it is natural for the kids to accept their place in the flock. And the term “flock” is appropriate here – for the church controls them as thoroughly as a shepherd dominates his sheep. </span></p>

All of this could of course be the experience of many children, but it's far from being a rule in the diversified Church and even further from being something that can condemn the Cross and the Gospel message.

Quote
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\"><img class=\"alignleft\" alt=\"http://what-buddha-said.net/Pics/hell.n4.jpg\" src=\"http://what-buddha-said.net/Pics/hell.n4.jpg\" width=\"420\" height=\"315\" />The keystone of the church’s indoctrination is the concept of hell. The young people are relentlessly warned that if they do certain things they will suffer grotesque agony for all of eternity. Most of the “sins” that will condemn a person to this horrible fate are irrelevant to typical kids. After all, they are not going to murder someone or worship false idols or rob the local bank. But as soon as they reach puberty, they get hammered by a Catholic edict that they barely knew even existed. </span><span style=\"font-size: large;\">Thou shalt not use birth control</span><span style=\"font-size: large;\">. </span></p>

This is a blatant misunderstanding of the doctrine of Hell, and any Church or religious parents who teach their children this are going against the Bible. No one is made to suffer "grotesque agony" for doing "certain things". Instead, they are held personally responsible for their free decision to reject God's universal offer of forgiveness and reconciliation.


Quote
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">After the epiphany that Dolores experienced on the beach with the mother turtle, she realized that her desired path in life was different from most of her peers. Although there was much charm in her Indio village life, her dreams swept towards the far horizon. She wanted to venture beyond the boundaries of her birthplace, and embrace the wider world. To achieve this she would need to succeed in both high school and university. </span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">Just when Dolores was recognizing this, she noticed that many of the girls just a few years older than her were suddenly dropping out of high school and having babies. When she asked them why they didn’t wait a little longer until they finished school, they confessed that the pleasure of sex was so extraordinary that they couldn’t restrain themselves. And since the almighty church insisted that if they used birth control they would burn in hell for a million years, they had risked unwanted pregnancies because sexual passion can be so overpowering.</span></p>

Now this is just absurd. The young "indoctrinated" teenagers can't resist the extraordinary pleasures of pre-marital sex but they still have the religious conviction to abstain from using birth control? And THAT'S the reason why they have so many unwanted children?? LOL. You have be to quite disconnected from reality to accept such a fantastic story.

The real story here is that the conservative sexual ethic Ray abhors is the rare exception in modern cultures, even ones with a heavy Catholic influence. Instead, the oppressive and enslaving consumer culture bombards people with sexual imagery to fuel their materialistic passions and also sells them the assortment of designer pills that serve to squash their sense of personal responsibility and alleviate their cognitive dissonance from living in continual sin.

It is that culture which rules over the lives of young people through fraud, manipulation and debt, enslaving them to short-term materialist pleasures and destroying their capacity to think about these issues for themselves. To perhaps stop and think about the seriousness of engaging in sexual relations with another person and the major moral responsibilities associated with such behavior, especially when children are involved. Also to stop and think about the intrinsic value of human life, even if it happens to be at an early stage of development.

Ray's article has truly managed to reach a new low in misrepresentation of the Christian faith and dangerous propaganda to boot. It's association between reckless sexual abandon and the pursuit of a young girl's hopes and dreams is a disturbing reflection of our culture's moral bankruptcy as well as its ignorance of basic sociology. It is also an enigmatic example of how the enslaving consumer culture has redefined what it means to truly have HOPES and DREAMS for the collective welfare of humanity, degrading those words into little more than justifications for selfish, individualistic behavior.

Offline Surly1

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 03:37:06 PM »
LOL, I seem to remember being attacked by a few people when I asserted that Ray was primarily attacking theism in his last post rather than "praising pantheism". I hope that is even more clear now.



All of this could of course be the experience of many children, but it's far from being a rule in the diversified Church and even further from being something that can condemn the Cross and the Gospel message.

Quote
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\"><img class=\"alignleft\" alt=\"http://what-buddha-said.net/Pics/hell.n4.jpg\" src=\"http://what-buddha-said.net/Pics/hell.n4.jpg\" width=\"420\" height=\"315\" />The keystone of the church’s indoctrination is the concept of hell. The young people are relentlessly warned that if they do certain things they will suffer grotesque agony for all of eternity. Most of the “sins” that will condemn a person to this horrible fate are irrelevant to typical kids. After all, they are not going to murder someone or worship false idols or rob the local bank. But as soon as they reach puberty, they get hammered by a Catholic edict that they barely knew even existed. </span><span style=\"font-size: large;\">Thou shalt not use birth control</span><span style=\"font-size: large;\">. </span></p>

This is a blatant misunderstanding of the doctrine of Hell, and any Church or religious parents who teach their children this are going against the Bible. No one is made to suffer "grotesque agony" for doing "certain things". Instead, they are held personally responsible for their free decision to reject God's universal offer of forgiveness and reconciliation.


Quote
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">After the epiphany that Dolores experienced on the beach with the mother turtle, she realized that her desired path in life was different from most of her peers. Although there was much charm in her Indio village life, her dreams swept towards the far horizon. She wanted to venture beyond the boundaries of her birthplace, and embrace the wider world. To achieve this she would need to succeed in both high school and university. </span></p>
<p><span style=\"font-size: large;\">Just when Dolores was recognizing this, she noticed that many of the girls just a few years older than her were suddenly dropping out of high school and having babies. When she asked them why they didn’t wait a little longer until they finished school, they confessed that the pleasure of sex was so extraordinary that they couldn’t restrain themselves. And since the almighty church insisted that if they used birth control they would burn in hell for a million years, they had risked unwanted pregnancies because sexual passion can be so overpowering.</span></p>

Now this is just absurd. The young "indoctrinated" teenagers can't resist the extraordinary pleasures of pre-marital sex but they still have the religious conviction to abstain from using birth control? And THAT'S the reason why they have so many unwanted children?? LOL. You have be to quite disconnected from reality to accept such a fantastic story.

The real story here is that the conservative sexual ethic Ray abhors is the rare exception in modern cultures, even ones with a heavy Catholic influence. Instead, the oppressive and enslaving consumer culture bombards people with sexual imagery to fuel their materialistic passions and also sells them the assortment of designer pills that serve to squash their sense of personal responsibility and alleviate their cognitive dissonance from living in continual sin.

It is that culture which rules over the lives of young people through fraud, manipulation and debt, enslaving them to short-term materialist pleasures and destroying their capacity to think about these issues for themselves. To perhaps stop and think about the seriousness of engaging in sexual relations with another person and the major moral responsibilities associated with such behavior, especially when children are involved. Also to stop and think about the intrinsic value of human life, even if it happens to be at an early stage of development.

Ray's article has truly managed to reach a new low in misrepresentation of the Christian faith and dangerous propaganda to boot.

Ashvin,
I'm throwing the flag on you for some of these comments.

Just what do you know about the indoctrination of young Catholic youth in the catechism and the notions of heaven and hell, purgatory and limbo? Particularly in the third world?

For my part I will tell you that the images and fear that Ray has described as being portrayed to "Dolores" struck a chord of memory with me, as the perceptions and feeling he conjured in this work of fiction were pretty much how I recalled my own indoctrination at the hands of otherwise well-meant nuns and priests. Of course, this was about 55 years ago.

Am also wondering how native teenagers could purchase "designer" pills even if they could manage to wrangle access to them?

I do not disagree with your indictment of materialism in any way; yet you want to to give the Church a pass here, which is unwarranted.

You also say that those who teach their children thus are "going against the bible." It happens every day, in this most "Christian" of countries.
"It is difficult to write a paradiso when all the superficial indications are that you ought to write an apocalypse." -Ezra Pound

Offline RE

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2013, 04:21:03 PM »
Just a suggestion Watson, you should clean up the quotes and get rid of all that html.  It's unreadable.

On the issue of Catholic girls in South America, I have some experience there.  :icon_mrgreen:  Dad the Pigman's 3rd marriage was to a Brazilian woman and my stepsisters are both Brazilian Catholic Girls.

Anyhow, Brazilian Christianity is pretty much the Full Monte Fire & Brimstone version that comes as a leftover of the Portuguese version of the Inquisition, which made the Spaniard Christians look Kind & Gentle.  Any Natives left alive after that FERVENTLY believe in Christ as their Savior from Fire & Brimstone,  because they got to watch  as Christians burned anyone who did NOT believe Jesus Christ was the Son of God right in front of them so they could witness Hell on Earth.

I don't think Birth Control will be that big a problem down the line.  The Death Rate will be so high pregnant teenagers won't be able to keep up.

RE
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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 04:37:09 PM »
Hello All,

Eddie - I agree with JD.  These Indios know the herbal birth control methods but they are petrified about the "eternity in hell" business.  Fortunately if and when it all comes down, I don't think the massive churches will do so well this time around.  They ruled the roost before the Dark Ages with just a few Hapsburgs around to compete with them.  It is all so intertwined now and they are dependent on industrial-techno civ whereas the Indios are not.

Ashvin, thanks for the great laugh - the part about these impoverished Indio girls accessing designer pills.   Also loved your cavalier approach to hell.  Why don't you go over to RE's Alaskan fireplace and lay down in a roaring fire for about a half an hour and let me know if that is or is not "grotesque agony."  And that is for 30 minutes - not 30 forevers.

Well gang, this will probably be my only time in the ring with ya.  As you flail away at each other, please step back every once in a while and recall the core message here - that little Dolores is having her modest, lovely dream decimated by a massive uncaring institution.

Oh, and as a little farewell incendiary gauntlet here is a great definition of the CathChurch provided by one of my readers a few days ago:  "A LARGE MULTI-NATIONAL, TAX-EXEMPT, AUTHORITARIAN CORPORATION WITH A KNOWN HISTORY OF SEXUAL ABUSE AGAINST CHILDREN, THAT SELLS AN INVISIBLE PRODUCT."  Why would any thinking person be against something as benign and loving AS THAT? :-)

Ray

Offline g

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 04:37:19 PM »
Quote
I don't think Birth Control will be that big a problem down the line.  The Death Rate will be so high pregnant teenagers won't be able to keep up.

RE

Cannot remember exactly where but Sibel Edmonds directed her readers to an article about this a while back.

Seems this declining birth rate we hear about is very serious stuff as far a future population is concerned. It seems the mathematics prove out of an extremely sharp and precipitous decline in the population that is baked in the cake. It has the growth cult extremely worried and they are keeping mum about it because of it's consequences to the financial system and retirement system. Nothing to do with collapse, just what is in the numbers already from what has happened.

Sorry I cannot come up with a link, it was a while back. Sure one of our Diner's with expertise in this area can provide info.

Wondering if it is the much talked about culling of the population, was it planned, or did it just come about on it's own??

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2013, 04:43:22 PM »
Ray,
This is ridiculous.

1 Why would this girl and all the others like her ignore the churches restriction on sex before marriage yet not ignore a restriction on birth control?

2 Why do the majority of sins not apply to teenage children yet. Lying? Stealing, bullying? Brazilian ghetto kids dont engage in any of that OR condom use because its a sin?

3 How many catholics do you know well? Im married to a practising one, and they seem to believe that attending the church in and of itself absolves any sin and leaves you free to sin, OR a few hail mary's and our fathers prescribed by confession. The entire fucking mafia are good practising catholics.

4 20% of 12 yr old girls have chlamydia alone in the unrepressed western world where we have no bible belt chastity belt. Why the skyrocket statistic? Well girls getting married at 13-14 like my late grandmother is being stamped out by interventionist idealists who seem to see young girls as hotblooded horny but must be free to be hotblooded horny nymphomaniacs.  Unfortunately peer pressure is still not quite as freewheeling as your fantasy, so alcohol and drugs intervene.

First because its then an absolvement from responsibility, girl can say she doesnt remember, was not in control etc. Didnt just choose willingly to be promiscuous. Second, being promiscuous and simply shagging instead of making lurv, is not as attractive an incentive as your alice in wonderland ideal seem to think. Therefore these young girls often would rather be drunk and out of it. Morning After abortion pill is available for 1$ for delores. Any misplaced guilt without the benefit of ever being in a church, reach for a bottle rinse and repeat. So we have high stats for underage binge drinking as well as 20% of 12 yr old girls with an std.

But why do so many noncatholic girls in western world with easy birth control still keep babies? Just as a memento of a fantastic fuck? No ray, real reasons are to keep the man or keep his money or to avoid the study required to get paid as a marine biologist and get paid to populate instead.

The law of attraction actually gets many girls out of the 3rd world and into the developed world via immigration if they dream big about careers. The reality of what free birth control and lack of church/religious based culture in monogamy results in would make anyone want to sail away to the repressed 3rd world where some semblance of family value and culture continues.





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Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2013, 04:53:32 PM »


Ray's article has truly managed to reach a new low in misrepresentation of the Christian faith and dangerous propaganda to boot. It's association between reckless sexual abandon and the pursuit of a young girl's hopes and dreams is a disturbing reflection of our culture's moral bankruptcy as well as its ignorance of basic sociology. It is also an enigmatic example of how the enslaving consumer culture has redefined what it means to truly have HOPES and DREAMS for the collective welfare of humanity, degrading those words into little more than justifications for selfish, individualistic behavior.

I replied before reading other replies in the thread including this. Not a personal attack on Ray but I agree, well said ashvin, you could give a good sermon there and I would want my daughters paying attention.

re indigenous contraception. women eating paw paw seed b4 ovulating and aboriginals DIY vasectomy when they have enough kids is good enough.
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Offline g

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 05:21:50 PM »
Quote from: Ashvin on Today at 12:06:24 PM
 
Quote
  Ray's article has truly managed to reach a new low in misrepresentation of the Christian faith and dangerous propaganda to boot. It's association between reckless sexual abandon and the pursuit of a young girl's hopes and dreams is a disturbing reflection of our culture's moral bankruptcy as well as its ignorance of basic sociology. It is also an enigmatic example of how the enslaving consumer culture has redefined what it means to truly have HOPES and DREAMS for the collective welfare of humanity, degrading those words into little more than justifications for selfish, individualistic behavior.

I replied before reading other replies in the thread including this. Not a personal attack on Ray but I agree, well said ashvin, you could give a good sermon there and I would want my daughters paying attention.

Well said indeed Uncle, found this paragraph to be powerful writing from Ashvin that really struck home to me as well. Ashvin's material is always top notch, but this is exceptional.

Offline g

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2013, 05:52:24 PM »
Quote
Oh, and as a little farewell incendiary gauntlet here is a great definition of the CathChurch provided by one of my readers a few days ago:  "A LARGE MULTI-NATIONAL, TAX-EXEMPT, AUTHORITARIAN CORPORATION WITH A KNOWN HISTORY OF SEXUAL ABUSE AGAINST CHILDREN, THAT SELLS AN INVISIBLE PRODUCT."  Why would any thinking person be against something as benign and loving AS THAT? :-)

How easy it is to find fault and stigmatize and stain billions from the acts of many sinners in the church. The uncountable amount of good, charity, loving deeds of the church count for nothing to it's detractors.

Would it be fair to castigate, defame, and HATE the entire human race on account of the many sinners, including myself, amongst us?

                                             
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« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 06:04:38 PM by Golden Oxen »

Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Chained to the Cross
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2013, 06:02:59 PM »
1 Why would this girl and all the others like her ignore the churches restriction on sex before marriage yet not ignore a restriction on birth control?
Um, that's easy... because the decision whether or not to use birth control is made somewhat rationally, but the decision whether or not to have sex is frequently made passionately, in the heat of the moment.

There is another factor at work here with teenage girls, and that is that body fat content.  Girls are maturing earlier sexually because they are not as starved (not to mention the estrogen-like pollutants industrial society puts out).

What's missing on both sides, the hellfire Christian and the permissive modern, is teaching girls to love themselves and respect their bodies, so that they demand it of their boyfriends, and they wait to get pregnant until they feel ready to give love to a child.  Too many young girls have sex and even have babies because they want to feel that someone loves them -- but it rarely works out that way.  That is the real tragedy.
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

 

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