AuthorTopic: Refugees of Climate Change  (Read 13226 times)

Offline RE

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2013, 03:34:28 AM »
Genius and great writing talent are extremely scarce gifts that only a very few receive Dear Leader. You were showered with an abundance of them from the heavens.

When God was handing out "Brains", I thought he said "Trains" and took the Express:icon_mrgreen:

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Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2013, 04:45:33 AM »
Quote
Death toll as of Monday anyhow, sure to rise over the days ahead, so by the time I publish on Sunday, I should have a more updated number.

Any new numbers in yet?

No, the MSM is keeping a Lid on this one.  Biggest "official" number I have been able to Google is around 4400.  This is clearly complete bullshit.
The MSM isn't entirely to blame (although it does share some complicity):

Typhoon Haiyan Death Toll in Philippines Reduced By Gov’t? Local Reporters Witness Alleged Cover-up
Quote
Despite the official death count released by the Philippines' National Disaster and Relief Coordinating Council, local reporters in Samar and Leyte have allegedly caught government officials deliberately hiding the real number of deaths caused by Typhoon Haiyan, locally known as Yolanda.

According to the local journalists as reported in the Philippine Star, they saw the figure 5,016 on the bulletin board tally based on the number of corpses recovered. However, the number was changed to 3,422 and was announced the official tally as of Nov. 16.

It was worth noting that before Typhoon Haiyan struck the Philippines, President Benigno Aquino III said the government's target was "zero casualty" in the aftermath of the storm. It was clear after Haiyan's devastation that the government target was no longer possible.
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Offline g

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2013, 04:49:02 AM »
Genius and great writing talent are extremely scarce gifts that only a very few receive Dear Leader. You were showered with an abundance of them from the heavens.

When God was handing out "Brains", I thought he said "Trains" and took the Express:icon_mrgreen:

RE

If only I was aware of your presence at that time.  :(

Would have gotten behind you in the brain line and hoped for a few scraps or morsels to fall as you feasted at the font of Wisdom and Genius.

Thank heavens, at least I found you at last, "Better Late Than Never", a man almost as wise as you once said.

My IQ has risen into the vicinity of 120 just from being acquainted with you Dear Leader. Think it is called the process of Osmosis.

Will never forget that most eventful evening in my life when I met you wandering the comments board of TAE. No wonder I admire Nicole so much.  :icon_sunny:

Offline Petty Tyrant

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2013, 04:55:38 AM »
I had a bit to do with disaster relief in the UN World Food Program around 1999-2000. What a revelation.
For starters the amount of money is staggering. Topups in the tens of millions all the time. 100 million dollars is like chump change. Much of that was from Japan and I wonder if the japanese are still able to keep up those obligations. Second, I asked for 2K/week (tax free) and they just said yeah ok, but the other people there said I was getting shortchanged, they were all pocketing around 20K/month, I just didnt know I could have asked for that. They all had ski huts in the alps and yachts etc.
Third, some people were doing all the work and others were doing nothing except drive around in brand new landcruisers and pretending they had been out doing something.
Fourth, it was a fuckfest. Theres an understanding that whatever happens in the field stays in the field, so all the people with partners at home get things going on a temporary basis, I had a couple offers out there that I passed up. Being married did not seem to bother too many others though.
Fifth Its chaos, you go in somewhere and people from various agencies like MSF or red cross try to claim the best cleanest area of whatever building is standing and working, by shouting the loudest, and you just have to stand your ground and shout back or be pushed around and get the short end of the stick.
6th, you are essentially camping, people organise their own tarp, sleeping bag, mosquito net, backpack, lots of portable foods, and there may not even be a toilet, or the toilet smells so bad and is so filthy you choose to have a small shovel and your own paper instead. Fishermens vests with lots of pockets for little pocket tools, and what have you are really popular. But they provide you bulletproof vests too outside the 'green zone compound'.
7 In rome at the HQ there are many pictures on the wall of people  who lost their life by driving down the wrong road or walking down the wrong street, or even the wrong remote village with guys with bones through their noses, feathers in their hair, holding primitive weapons, that maybe just dont like your face. Plus plenty of food trucks roll over cliff faces on really bad roads and youve got another hall of famer.
8 The paramilitay police and army from 3rd world countries treat it all like a big holiday. The ones from US, UK and Oz, are the opposite and act like its the opportunity of a lifetime to maybe see some action and shoot someone. eg, when locals start getting angry outside the gate african soldiers just fire a few shots in the air, if you drive in that same gate with a permit  in a UN vehicle but go slightly faster than walking pace australian soldiers will put a rifle through your window against your head, just to tell you to slow down. Aholes.
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Offline RE

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2013, 02:16:24 AM »
Uber-Doomer Guy McPherson published this one today on Nature Bats Last.

ulvfugl came up with this video in the commentary, very good.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/l53fZwXlYw0?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/l53fZwXlYw0?feature=player_detailpage</a>

Very Polite Commentariat over there!  We are exchanging Doom Poetry.   :icon_sunny:

Watch out for disappearing comments.  Guy has issues with his Cookies.  The comments are still there, you just gotta get rid of the cookies.

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Offline RE

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2013, 10:33:34 AM »
I published this in the comment stream on the parallel thread on Nature Bats Last, currently awaiting Moderation:

Quote from: RE
Reverse Engineer Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
November 29th, 2013 at 11:23 am

No, not specifically on feedback loops. My contribution to the Climate Change debate comes in the form of Geotectonic theory.

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2012/04/02/geotectonic-ocean-heat-transfer-theory/

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2012/08/10/geotectonic-ocean-heat-transfer-theory-revisited/

Another of the Diner Bloggers (WHD) Critiqued it also

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2012/08/16/geotectonic-ocean-heat-transfer-a-critique/

While I am quite sure we are exacerbating a bad situation through Industrial Carbon emmissions, on an energetic level this is all dwarfed by what is going on Geotectonically with the earth. You cannot account for increasing vulcanism and earthquakes through anthropogenic causation. Something else is at work to do this, and the energy release here is fantastic, in the petajoules.

So even if we stopped industrial living on a dime, this contribution to the climate change cycle would continue onward a while longer, until whatever is causing it stops causing it.

On the feedback level, I look at the Pleistocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum mainly here. SOMETHING of indeterminate nature caused a reversal of the heating trend, despite very high CO2 content in the atmosphere. I think there is likely another feedback not yet identified which prevents a Venusian style cooking to occur.

We still have a bad outcome here far as Homo Sapiens is concerned of course, but it is not necessarily destined for Extinction Level. It is a possible outcome, but not written in stone.

RE
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Offline RE

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2013, 04:59:57 AM »
I am having a fabulous argument with a New Age Greeny named Christy over on the parallel thread on NBL.  :icon_mrgreen:  Thread is now in the Triple Digits, though I think Guy will cut off posting there soon.  He cuts off posting on older threads after a bit to minimize his SPAM problems.

Anyhow, here is my latest contribution to that thread:  :icon_mrgreen:

Quote from: RE
"DO I NEED TO SHOUT, LIKE YOU DO?
I DID NOT SAY ‘DO NOTHING’.
I SAID ‘IF YOU WANT TO FIND SOLUTIONS, I RESPECT THAT’.
I JUST DON’T LIKE YOUR IDEA.
FROM MY ADMITTEDLY NON-TECHNICAL BACKGROUND IT LOOKS TECHNICALLY IMPOSSIBLE, AND FROM MY ESSENTIALLY INDIGENOUS WORLD VIEW IT LOOKS REALLY IGNORANT."-C

Although I am a big fan of using CAPS for emphasis (particularly if the commentary does not support bold & italics), I NEVER run a full paragraph this way.  I sprinkle them out judiciously.  A whole paragraph in CAPS is a bit of Overkill here I think. JMHO. LOL.

However, I grasp you are a tad upset here and trying to make a point. :)

Did you explicitly say "Do Nothing"?  No, but neither did you present anything in the way of an alternative, other than to suggest I go out on a camping trip to commune further with Nature.  I do enjoy such trips of course, but they don't get me a whole lot closer to figuring out any better solutions than I already have.

The suggestion made above of piling up all the Waste for people to go check out and learn from is preposterous. Issue is here this waste needs to be cooled until it decays sufficiently, which will take a mighty long time.  HTF do you cool it in these big piles without fossil fuels driving an electrical grid?  You can't do it.  So it has to be removed from the Biosphere as best as possible, and Space is OUT.  This leaves you just one other alternative, the Deep Ocean.

For the most part, the very Deep Ocean is just about as Lifeless as Space is.  The pressure is enormous, no Light reaches the depths, and in subduction zones the Earth gets recycled into the core.  You can't do better than this for a Disposal Location, and you DO have to dispose of the stuff.  You can't Compost it with the Humanure.

I am more than willing to entertain any decent ideas you have here, but so far you haven't presented anything but New Age Philosophy.  Laying on the ground out in the Bush doing a Vulcan Mind Meld with GAIA is not going to solve this problem, if it can be solved anyhow.

I suggest you do a Reality Check here, then offer up something other than Giving Up and hoping GAIA can heal herself with some New Species cropping up down the line to replace the current bunch, because that outcome is Highly Unlikely at the moment.

Right now we are looking at a rapid exit out of ALL LIFE on Earth, not just Homo Sapiens.  In theory, we might get another 500M years out of this experiment, under Ideal Conditions.  Frankly, I'd be happy with another Millenia or Two here at this point, but I'd rather shoot for the Long Haul.

We screwed up.  This is not reversable, you can't go back in time to fix past mistakes.  You can however do the best you can to limit the effect of those mistakes.  You got a better idea?  I am all ears.

RE

Think I am making New Friends here amongst the Uber Doomer Greenies?  Maybe not...LOL.

RE
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Offline RE

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2013, 06:34:39 PM »
Today's contribution to the thread on NBL.

RE

Quote from: RE
@AL

As mentioned, Arnie Gunderson is probably the best source to go to for current information about FU.  Nuclear isn't my specialty, math and biochemistry are.  However, I can offer some reasonably informed opinions.

The idea of a mile thick concrete sarcophagus is even more outlandish than sinking it.  The 3 Gorges Dam in China is the largest concrete structure on earth, and at its base it is only 330 feet thick.  Tapers to 40 feet at the top too. 27,200,000 cu yds of concrete were poured.  It took from 1994 to 2012 to complete.  Even if you could access and pour that much concrete, it would take 50 years easy to do it.

Because the Nuke Puke industry has been pitching disinformation right from the get-go and most people don't know enough about it to pick it apart, you have to do some logical reconstruction in order to figure out what the real issues are here.

I started thinking about this problem back in the 80s-90s when the idea of burying the waste in salt caves under Yucca Mountain was being floated.  Billions were spent to develop it, then the whole project was abandoned in 2010.

Ostensible blame for ending it was placed on the NIMBYs and Greenies who opposed it.  However, if this place could have actually worked, it would have been rammed through anyhow.  It never could work, it was a distraction.  You can't load that much hot nuclear waste into one spot without the flying neutrons heating everything up still more.

So the real reason that Nuke Puke waste has been kept On Site in all these facilities for all these years is because these are the only places that have had means to keep the waste cool, and to jack in lots of Boron to slow down flying Neutrons.

The waste disposal aspect of Nuke has been swept under the rug from the inception, with the public always duped into believing that "someday" a safe disposal means would be found.

I pondered on why some other High Tech means were not undertaken to render the material safe.  I'm sure some of you folks would not like them because they are high tech anyhow, but at the time I pondered them regardless.  The main idea would be to bombard the waste with neutrons in a cyclotron or linear accelerator and transmute the highly toxic elements into others that either had lower levels of radiation or would decay significantly faster.  The problem with this idea I think is that it is too energy intensive and the volume of waste is too large.  You could only do it a little at a time, and with all the cyclotrons on earth running 24/7, it probably takes even longer than it would take to build a Mile Thick concrete sarcophagus.

On a more reasonable scale of Concrete pouring, at least for Japan this is a complete waste of time, because for sure inside a century the beast would be hit by ANOTHER 9.0 quake, crack and fracture all over the place and lose containment anyhow.  So Jackson Browne style, you gotta Do It Again, Amen.

So, bottom line here, options are 2, Slim and None.  I do understand Christy's perspective, I look at the Earth as a comprehensive system too, and though I don't approach it as she does, I have my own Spiritual connection here with the Planet.  I don't wanna drop Puke into the Ocean anymore than the next Greeny out there does.  At the same time, you do have to look at the way the system works, much as in physiology you need to understand how the whole Human Body works to do a decent job in Medicine.

There is actually way more radioactive material on earth than even we have produced to this date, just it sits deep down in the Core of the Earth.  Radioactive decay of heavy elements is what makes the core hot and liquid.  Getting the stuff we have produced to where all its Brother and Sister Radioactive Elements swim around is the tough part of course.

So, just as in order to fix a bad Heart Valve you have to crack the chest cavity, bust some bones and rip up some cartilage to get in there and fix it, in this case you have cut through the thinnest part of GAIAs skin to fix this.  The best place here is Mariana.  Ocean Hydrodynamics being what they are, the water down there doesn't circulate up much.  It's 1580 miles long, giving you enough space to spread out the Puke so the neutrons aren't hitting each other's piles and driving the reactions to criticality.  If you can get the stuff embedded in the crust (and that IS a huge engineering challenge, yes)then over time it will be subducted into the mantle, and no it won't come popping out the next day from a Volcano.    It will take millions of years to pop back out, and by then be diluted out by other melted rock of various types.

It's a very tough Morton's Fork, and I do empathize with those who are sick of what Science has wrought on the Earth, I am one of them and I am a scientist!  However, like any doctor that sees a Patient with a Bad Heart Valve, knows he will die if he doesn't do what he knows how to do, he grabs a scalpel and he cuts open the patient's chest to fix it.  It's the ONLY chance the patient has.  NOT doing it guarantees the death of the Patient, in this case Mother Earth.

Again, if there is a better solution, I am all ears.  I've been pondering it for 20 years and haven't come up with anything better than this though.  I would be pleased as punch if somebody else does.

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Offline WHD

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change - Ms Christy
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2013, 07:50:10 PM »
I published this in the comment stream on the parallel thread on Nature Bats Last, currently awaiting Moderation:

Quote from: RE
Reverse Engineer Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
November 29th, 2013 at 11:23 am

No, not specifically on feedback loops. My contribution to the Climate Change debate comes in the form of Geotectonic theory.

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2012/04/02/geotectonic-ocean-heat-transfer-theory/

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2012/08/10/geotectonic-ocean-heat-transfer-theory-revisited/

Another of the Diner Bloggers (WHD) Critiqued it also

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2012/08/16/geotectonic-ocean-heat-transfer-a-critique/

While I am quite sure we are exacerbating a bad situation through Industrial Carbon emmissions, on an energetic level this is all dwarfed by what is going on Geotectonically with the earth. You cannot account for increasing vulcanism and earthquakes through anthropogenic causation. Something else is at work to do this, and the energy release here is fantastic, in the petajoules.

So even if we stopped industrial living on a dime, this contribution to the climate change cycle would continue onward a while longer, until whatever is causing it stops causing it.

On the feedback level, I look at the Pleistocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum mainly here. SOMETHING of indeterminate nature caused a reversal of the heating trend, despite very high CO2 content in the atmosphere. I think there is likely another feedback not yet identified which prevents a Venusian style cooking to occur.

We still have a bad outcome here far as Homo Sapiens is concerned of course, but it is not necessarily destined for Extinction Level. It is a possible outcome, but not written in stone.

RE



Funny, I blogged today, and noticed that my previous post, Less Ranting, More Doing www.offthegridmpls.blogspot.com/2013/11/less-ranting-more-doing.html  which I didn't publish here or anywhere else, is currently the fifth most-read post of the 300+/- posts on my blog, though I haven't been blogging much of late, or commenting that much here, or anywhere else. I was perplexed. I'm not anymore.

I dropped by NBL with a comment, in a language Ms Christy might comprehend, LOL. The sort the Left-brained sausage fest here is often critical of me for. We'll see if Guy publishes it.  :icon_mrgreen:

WHD

Offline RE

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change - Ms Christy
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2013, 08:18:02 PM »

I dropped by NBL with a comment, in a language Ms Christy might comprehend, LOL. The sort the Left-brained sausage fest here is often critical of me for. We'll see if Guy publishes it.  :icon_mrgreen:


Did you keep a Copy of it?  Can you publish it here?

RE
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Offline jdwheeler42

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2013, 08:20:40 PM »
On the feedback level, I look at the Pleistocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum mainly here. SOMETHING of indeterminate nature caused a reversal of the heating trend, despite very high CO2 content in the atmosphere. I think there is likely another feedback not yet identified which prevents a Venusian style cooking to occur.

We still have a bad outcome here far as Homo Sapiens is concerned of course, but it is not necessarily destined for Extinction Level. It is a possible outcome, but not written in stone.
I think people are underestimating the power of desertification.  Most people think of deserts as hot places, and during the daytime, they are correct.  The thing is, they don't do a good job of absorbing the heat, so at night, they can get quite cold.  I think that can be a major mechanism to limit the amount of global warming.

Of course, when Saint Louis looks like Las Vegas, it is not going to be good for Homo sapiens....
Making pigs fly is easy... that is, of course, after you have built the catapult....

Offline WHD

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change - Ms Christy
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2013, 08:36:59 PM »

I dropped by NBL with a comment, in a language Ms Christy might comprehend, LOL. The sort the Left-brained sausage fest here is often critical of me for. We'll see if Guy publishes it.  :icon_mrgreen:


Did you keep a Copy of it?  Can you publish it here?

RE

Didn't occur to me. You can if he publishes it.

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change - Ms Christy
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2013, 08:51:28 PM »

Didn't occur to me. You can if he publishes it.

ALWAYS KEEP COPIES of stuff posted on other Doomsites before posting!

You should have learned that lesson from Brandon "Mr. Constitution" Smith on Alt-Market.  ::)

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Offline WHD

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change - Ms Christy
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2013, 01:21:43 AM »

Didn't occur to me. You can if he publishes it.

ALWAYS KEEP COPIES of stuff posted on other Doomsites before posting!

You should have learned that lesson from Brandon "Mr. Constitution" Smith on Alt-Market.  ::)

RE

Particularly LOVED this from Ms Christy, @ Nature Bats Last:

Quote
You are being obnoxious when you end your statements with that...
  :icon_mrgreen: :icon_sunny:

Dropped a few more pills.  ;)

WHD

Offline RE

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Re: Refugees of Climate Change - Ms Christy
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2013, 01:24:08 AM »

Didn't occur to me. You can if he publishes it.

ALWAYS KEEP COPIES of stuff posted on other Doomsites before posting!

You should have learned that lesson from Brandon "Mr. Constitution" Smith on Alt-Market.  ::)

RE

Particularly LOVED this from Ms Christy, @ Nature Bats Last:

Quote
You are being obnoxious when you end your statements with that...
  :icon_mrgreen: :icon_sunny:

Dropped a few more pills.  ;)

WHD

I followed up with another PLUG for OTGim and tweaked Christy at the same time.  :icon_mrgreen:

RE
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